JCMan8 wrote:
What are you talking about? You just responded to Azul and confirmed my interpretation of your post.

It arrogantly and basically said: don't listen to people who claim they are for legal immigration, they are lying.

brewster wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
You falsely implied that Trump's actions of ensuring American steel would be used on the Keystone pipeline would benefit China rather than American workers. Not only does this fly in the face of common sense, it is debunked by your very article.

Again, bad reading comprehension. Please quote where I said the chinese would benefit from the pipeline, I only said the American mills employ far fewer workers to produce steel than they did in the past. I said the chinese robot exporters would benefit from his overall trade position.
Quote:

http://www.americanthinker.com/articl ... _than_us_citizens_do.html

Those stats have long been debunked, Federal criminals are not representative of the US at large.

Brewster wrote:

You do realize most American steel today is made in highly automated micro mills, not the behemoths that made Pittsburgh. Speaking of automation, it's predicted the greatest beneficiary of his domestic production agenda will be Chinese robot factories selling US producers automation to replace workers.

Azul_the_Cat wrote:
I hope everyone enjoys paying more for the same things.


"The presidential administration of Donald Trump came up with a brilliant idea to pay for the Mexican border wall yesterday. Instead of having Mexicans pay for the wall, he?d have Americans pay for the wall, through a 20 percent border tax on imported goods. And wouldn?t you know it, a lot of cars are imported from Mexico.

We?ve taken the liberty to calculate just how much those cars will cost you with their shiny new 20 percent price bump, thanks to the new president and his wall.

Call this a thought exercise. No one is sure how exactly the Trump administration could implement such a tax, whether it would be per each imported good or overall somehow. But let?s assume it?s the former, so we?re calculated a 20 percent increase from the current base price of every vehicle.

It should be noted that almost immediately after news broke of the potential border tax, White House officials walked back their remarks, saying that paying for the wall this way was just, well, it was just one of a lot of options, okay? Via the New York Times:

But a furious uproar prompted Mr. Spicer to temper his earlier remarks, saying the plan was simply ?one idea? that might work to finance the wall. Mr. Spicer said it was not the job of the White House to ?roll something out? on tax policy, while Mr. Trump?s chief of staff, Reince Priebus, said the administration was considering ?a buffet of options.?
Either way it?s going to be an expensive buffet for someone. We should say that this isn?t a direct tax on consumers, but that?s likely how it will end up, as corporations don?t like to absorb costs. They always pass the savings?and the increased expenses?on to you. Either way, Trump?s whole ?Mexico will pay for the wall? was clearly a complete lie, as now you, Americans, will pay for the wall.

We should also say that a likely scenario for many of these cars, if this tax comes to pass, is that they will cease being sold in the United States. They tend to be small cars, which are unpopular at the moment anyway given how cheap gas is, and thus with a low profit margin. If you think Ford will bother selling the Fiesta here at all if the price goes up 20 percent, forget it.

?Oh ho ho,? you say. ?But now the companies will just bring the manufacturing into the United States, and the price will magically stay cheap!? Not so fast. Even if that sort of scenario does come to pass, which it won?t, new manufacturing facilities take time to build anew or build out. That fantasy is years out, at best.

I?ve got nothing against the American worker or American jobs. Hell, we?re all American workers with American jobs. But if you want to buy American, or have the big beautiful wall, you?re going to have to pay for it.

(Please note! For some of these cars, not every example is built in Mexico. For example, not all Ram pickup trucks are made in Mexico, but the regular cab light-duty Rams are. Those are the ones we?ve based the pricing on.)"

Ford Fiesta
Old Price: $13,660
Mexican Wall Price: $16,392

Ford Fiesta ST
Old Price: $21,140
Mexican Wall Price: $25,368

Ford Fusion
Old Price: $22,120
Mexican Wall Price: $26,544

Lincoln MKZ
Old Price: $35,170
Mexican Wall Price: $42,204

Ram 1500
Old Price: $26,395
Mexican Wall Price: $31,674

Ram Heavy Duty
Old Price: $33,245
Mexican Wall Price: $39,894

Ram Promaster
Old Price: $27,935
Mexican Wall Price: $33,522

Toyota Yaris iA
Old Price: $15,950
Mexican Wall Price: $19,140

Toyota Tacoma (Double Cab)
Old Price: $24,950
Mexican Wall Price: $29,940

Mazda 3
Old Price: $17,845
Mexican Wall Price: $21,414

Jeep Compass
Old Price: $19,940
Mexican Wall Price: $23,928

Dodge Journey
Old Price: $21,145
Mexican Wall Price: $25,374

Fiat 500
Old Price: $14,995
Mexican Wall Price: $17,994

Fiat 500 Abarth
Old Price: $19,995
Mexican Wall Price: $23,994

Nissan Sentra
Old Price: $16,990
Mexican Wall Price: $20,388

Nissan Versa
Old Price: $11,990
Mexican Wall Price: $14,388

Nissan NV200
Old Price: $21,330
Mexican Wall Price: $25,596

Honda Fit
Old Price: $16,090
Mexican Wall Price: $19,308

Honda HR-V
Old Price: $19,465
Mexican Wall Price: $23,358

Honda CR-V
Old Price: $24,045
Mexican Wall Price: $28,854

Volkswagen Jetta
Old Price: $17,895
Mexican Wall Price: $21,474

Volkswagen Golf
Old Price: $19,895
Mexican Wall Price: $23,874

Volkswagen Beetle
Old Price: $19,995
Mexican Wall Price: $23,874

Volkswagen GTI
Old Price: $25,595
Mexican Wall Price: $30,714

JCMan8 wrote:
You falsely implied that Trump's actions of ensuring American steel would be used on the Keystone pipeline would benefit China rather than American workers. Not only does this fly in the face of common sense, it is debunked by your very article.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articl ... _than_us_citizens_do.html

Frank_M wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
[Frank is] being intentionally deceptive and arrogant, pretending to speak for someone's true motives.

He is pretending that the legions of Trump supporters who support legal immigration, like Trump himself who is married to one, are just lying about it..

You claimed that I?m pretending to speak for somebody else?s motives?which is untrue?and then you proceeded to speak for me??

I'll say this about our new Bizarro world: At least it's consistent and predictable in its irrationality.

brewster wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Your article contradicts your claim regarding who will be doing the American manufacturing here, though, being the NYT, they slanted the facts as best they could. The very quote you posted says that American manufacturers are far more productive using just two thirds as many workers.

I'll give you that 66% is not 100%, but it is still significant. Your claim that China will primarily benefit from increased American manufacturing may be true in 50 years but it certainly is not true today. So President Trump's attention to details no one has previously thought of will still tremendously benefit American workers (just not as many as in the past).

Your reading comprehension is low. They increased production 80% WHILE CUTTING THE WORKFORCE 33%! The didn't add only 2/3 the jobs they would otherwise as you believe.

Quote:

I would expect legal immigrants to commit far fewer crimes than natives, because they are grateful for the opportunity to come here and want to take advantage.

Actually, putting aside their crime of entering the US, illegal immigrants have far more incentive not to break criminal laws, they don't want to come up on law enforcement radar, since the repercussions can be catastrophic.

I could post more actual data, like this article http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/na ... ncisco-shooting/30159479/ but you don't care about facts, only what you want to believe from your reactionary sources making things up.

JCMan8 wrote:
[Frank is] being intentionally deceptive and arrogant, pretending to speak for someone's true motives.

He is pretending that the legions of Trump supporters who support legal immigration, like Trump himself who is married to one, are just lying about it..

Azul_the_Cat wrote:
You really think people aren't against legal same sex marriages? Are you being deliberately obtuse?

JCMan8 wrote:
Your article contradicts your claim regarding who will be doing the American manufacturing here, though, being the NYT, they slanted the facts as best they could. The very quote you posted says that American manufacturers are far more productive using just two thirds as many workers.

I'll give you that 66% is not 100%, but it is still significant. Your claim that China will primarily benefit from increased American manufacturing may be true in 50 years but it certainly is not true today. So President Trump's attention to details no one has previously thought of will still tremendously benefit American workers (just not as many as in the past).

I would expect legal immigrants to commit far fewer crimes than natives, because they are grateful for the opportunity to come here and want to take advantage.

Azul_the_Cat wrote:
That's all well and good but Obama is not our President anymore. We're there major issues with a lot of what any politician does vs. what he can actually accomplish? Of course there is.

Now Trump is in the White House, in he is not exactly making a steps towards building a good relationship with our nearest neighbor, key ally, and 3rd largest supplier of goods for our country.

Can Trump try and fix the problems of past President's? Sure he can try. You give Obama a hard time about blaming Bush Jr., but you're doing the same thing with Obama.

Whether you want to admit it or not, Trump is a master manipulator with very situational ethics. He played this country like a fiddle. Now the people that were to naive to see through the BS are regretting their votes. I once heard Trump described this way, "He may not be the smartest guy in the room, but no one knows is smarter than he is when it comes to playing on the fears of people in this country."

His campaign consisted of basically 3 things.
1. Lock HRC up for her emails.
2. I'm gonna get all the jobs here in the USA.
3. Here is someone to blame for all your problems and fears in the world.

Azul_the_Cat wrote:
Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
?People are not against legal immigration,? just like they aren?t opposed to legal, same-sex marriage.

You really think people aren't against legal same sex marriages? Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Frank_M wrote:
?People are not against legal immigration,? just like they aren?t opposed to legal, same-sex marriage.

TheBigGuy wrote:
Silly article... as stated before people are not against LEGAL immigration.

hero69 wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Things are so bad in Chicago that they just had a vigil for a gunshot victim. 6 people were shot at this vigil against gun violence, including a 12 year old girl.

Going to need to send the Feds in to clean up the mess that the Democrats created.

Six shot during vigil for gunshot victim in Chicago

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN15A0S7

i'm not sure the democrats created the problem, but the problem needs to be addressed.

HamSandwichPark wrote:
This is what you get when you elect a failed steak salesman to the highest office in the land.

brewster wrote:
Quote:

135jc wrote:
Predicted by who? What I am seeing is an attempt to correct some of the problems facing the country. Liberals have no problem throwing billions down a rabbit hole if it's for a so called green initiative but have a problem with a wall that will probably save lives and make us safer

Chinese Robots https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/tec ... -chinese-robots.html?_r=0

Quote:

Work may indeed be coming back to the United States. The real issue is whether human beings will do it.

As Farhad Manjoo writes, American manufacturers now produce over 80 percent more than they did in 1987, using just two-thirds as many workers. The reason is automation, and here, political browbeating comes up against the laws of economics ? robots are cheaper and often more efficient than people.

Farhad?s statistic looks over a 30-year period. That underplays more recent advances like cheap and abundant sensors, cloud-connected computing systems and better algorithms. All of those things mean that robots are getting better at a fast rate. Throw in artificial intelligence, and robots are even faster at doing ordinary human tasks.That?s why we now see factories with just a few workers and lots of machines. Even the cloud data centers that sometimes power the robots don?t need that many workers. They are usually located in rural areas, sometimes in the shells of old factories, but they are full of robots.

I know this is hopeless, since we live in a post fact world, but the crime rate among illegal immigrants is actually lower than among legal residents. FDR said it best about fear, but since he was a Democrat nothing he said could possibly make sense to you.

Is CATO right wing enough for you?

With few exceptions, immigrants are less crime prone than natives or have no effect on crime rates.

brewster wrote:
Quote:

135jc wrote:
Predicted by who? What I am seeing is an attempt to correct some of the problems facing the country. Liberals have no problem throwing billions down a rabbit hole if it's for a so called green initiative but have a problem with a wall that will probably save lives and make us safer

Chinese Robots https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/tec ... -chinese-robots.html?_r=0

Quote:

Work may indeed be coming back to the United States. The real issue is whether human beings will do it.

As Farhad Manjoo writes, American manufacturers now produce over 80 percent more than they did in 1987, using just two-thirds as many workers. The reason is automation, and here, political browbeating comes up against the laws of economics ? robots are cheaper and often more efficient than people.

Farhad?s statistic looks over a 30-year period. That underplays more recent advances like cheap and abundant sensors, cloud-connected computing systems and better algorithms. All of those things mean that robots are getting better at a fast rate. Throw in artificial intelligence, and robots are even faster at doing ordinary human tasks.That?s why we now see factories with just a few workers and lots of machines. Even the cloud data centers that sometimes power the robots don?t need that many workers. They are usually located in rural areas, sometimes in the shells of old factories, but they are full of robots.

I know this is hopeless, since we live in a post fact world, but the crime rate among illegal immigrants is actually lower than among legal residents. FDR said it best about fear, but since he was a Democrat nothing he said could possibly make sense to you.

Is CATO right wing enough for you?

With few exceptions, immigrants are less crime prone than natives or have no effect on crime rates.

135jc wrote:
Predicted by who? What I am seeing is an attempt to correct some of the problems facing the country. Liberals have no problem throwing billions down a rabbit hole if it's for a so called green initiative but have a problem with a wall that will probably save lives and make us safer

Work may indeed be coming back to the United States. The real issue is whether human beings will do it.

As Farhad Manjoo writes, American manufacturers now produce over 80 percent more than they did in 1987, using just two-thirds as many workers. The reason is automation, and here, political browbeating comes up against the laws of economics ? robots are cheaper and often more efficient than people.

Farhad?s statistic looks over a 30-year period. That underplays more recent advances like cheap and abundant sensors, cloud-connected computing systems and better algorithms. All of those things mean that robots are getting better at a fast rate. Throw in artificial intelligence, and robots are even faster at doing ordinary human tasks.That?s why we now see factories with just a few workers and lots of machines. Even the cloud data centers that sometimes power the robots don?t need that many workers. They are usually located in rural areas, sometimes in the shells of old factories, but they are full of robots.

hero69 wrote:
Quote:

greenville wrote:
No matter what party, Republicans or Democrat, politicians are not gonna solve your problems because they are the ones who create the problems we currently have. Bush wrecked our economy, Obama made it worse, and Trump will probably tell us that it is much worse than we think and do absolutely nothing to fix it.

by most measures, obama definitely left the economy in better shape than the one he inherited.

hero69 wrote:
Quote:

greenville wrote:
No matter what party, Republicans or Democrat, politicians are not gonna solve your problems because they are the ones who create the problems we currently have. Bush wrecked our economy, Obama made it worse, and Trump will probably tell us that it is much worse than we think and do absolutely nothing to fix it.

by most measures, obama definitely left the economy in better shape than the one he inherited.

greenville wrote:
No matter what party, Republicans or Democrat, politicians are not gonna solve your problems because they are the ones who create the problems we currently have. Bush wrecked our economy, Obama made it worse, and Trump will probably tell us that it is much worse than we think and do absolutely nothing to fix it.

Azul_the_Cat wrote:
So when the price of all the products made in Mexico, that are imported into the USA, goes up aren't we really paying for the wall? The imports aren't going to just stop.

brewster wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
One of the things that makes Trump such a great president is his attention to details that tremendously benefit American workers, yet don't even occur to typical politicians on either side of the aisle.

A perfect example came in his executive order bringing back the Keystone pipeline. He stipulated that the pipe will only be back if it uses 100% American steel produced by American workers. This move alone will tremendously benefit many hard working people, and seems so obvious, yet apparently no one thought of the idea before him.

You do realize most American steel today is made in highly automated micro mills, not the behemoths that made Pittsburgh. Speaking of automation, it's predicted the greatest beneficiary of his domestic production agenda will be Chinese robot factories selling US producers automation to replace workers.