brewster wrote:
Quote:

Mao wrote:
the Jews did not seek to convert the Muslims so the theological tension was much less.

Think hard about this, and it's relevance to tolerance.

You may nitpick and find exceptions in the historic record, but in general there was no pre 20th century Muslim equivalent of the centuries long European expulsions, denials of human rights, and pogroms against Jews.

Yvonne, you just dig yourself deeper suggesting that an atrocity is worse because perhaps it's victims ancestors were Jews not Arabs. You're like Drumpf, you apparently don't even know when you're being racist.

Mao wrote:
the Jews did not seek to convert the Muslims so the theological tension was much less.

brewster wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
[quote]
You are making no sense at all. When did Christianity changed the story of Abraham?

You might recall when some apostles contrived to " take another religion that existed thousands of years ago, change it" ?

From the Jewish POV, whether you proclaim a messiah & pitch all of the Lords laws, or change which boy God wanted killed in the story, it makes little difference. You have now modified the religion for your own purposes. Not that there's anything wrong with that, have a ball, just leave us out of the "them what killed Jesus thing" thing. Fact is, up until pretty recently, Jews got along in the Islamic world quite a bit better than in the Christian one. Tolerance is not giving a crap what others believe as long as they leave you alone about it. Consider it.

Yvonne wrote:
[quote]
You are making no sense at all. When did Christianity changed the story of Abraham?

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

drifterx wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
This, right here, is a simple example of why multi-cultural societies can't really work. You can't account for every religion out there. You have to say "ok, this society is X, here are the holidays, and if you need to take a few days for your own stuff fine but ultimately, this is these are the holidays that are this society's holidays because we are a ______ society." That's what happens in the middle east - they're Muslim. So everything is closed on Muslim holidays. Yet, for some reason we in the West have lost our way and feel the desperate need to appease every other religion out there so "they don't feel bad."

So guys, the national holidays are what they are for a reason. The reason is that this society was founded by (feel free to fill in the blank). There's zero reason to change that now - though I do note that there is a good reason to consider this when looking at our immigration policy.

The end. And yes, you can guess who I'm voting for in the election. And religiously, I'm not religious at all.

I think things like a 'multi-cultural society' doesn't work is because people would rather give up and fail to actually do the 'work'. Nothing can ever be perfect but America has been multi-cultural all these years so why are some Americans today suddenly giving up now? It was acceptable when the Irish and Italian Catholics moved in so now it isn't? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't perfect back then either. People resisted and persecuted those immigrants but our better angels prevailed and people worked at having good relations. So yeah, I have a pretty good idea on who you are voting for and it is a sad reminder of those early days but I believe in America that is inclusive and I will believe our better angels will prevail now as well.

I think it's rather sad that people cite the failure of one of this country's strengths just because they can't agree on holidays. /smh

Work it out people. It starts with talking to each other, not past each other.

Why isn't it working anymore? Because traditionally, America has been a melting pot instead of a tossed salad. In other words, in "the good old days" no one expected to adapt to immigrant cultures, immigrant cultures were supposed to assimilate into America. But if you have to let whoever shows up take over then the obvious answer is that you probably shouldn't let people show up anymore unless they're not going to screw up your life.

brewster wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
This is about disrespecting other religion. But think about it you take another religion that existed thousands of years ago, change it and then demand a holiday for it.

You're talking about Christianity right? It's hard to tell which you have less of: tolerance, or sense of when you're making ironic or hypocritical statements. Most people have in internal proofreader, seems like yours quit if you ever had one.

Yvonne wrote:
This is about disrespecting other religion. But think about it you take another religion that existed thousands of years ago, change it and then demand a holiday for it.

corybraiterman wrote:
As someone with a degree in history, I'm perfectly happy with fewer people reading the bible. It is one of the worst written pieces of awful sci-fi/fantasy fiction in all of recorded language.

corybraiterman wrote:
As someone with a degree in history, I'm perfectly happy with fewer people reading the bible. It is one of the worst written pieces of awful sci-fi/fantasy fiction in all of recorded language.

The less people who want to look to contradictory fairy tales for answers the better.

corybraiterman wrote:
As someone with a degree in history, I'm perfectly happy with fewer people reading the bible. It is one of the worst written pieces of awful sci-fi/fantasy fiction in all of recorded language.

The less people who want to look to contradictory fairy tales for answers the better.

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

mscottc wrote:
Yvonne,
Are you judging people who haven't read the bible? Are people who don't read the bible somehow less than you?
How about if I've primarily read only the set of books most Americans call the "First Testament?" Would that make me less of a person. How about if I read that so called "First Testament" and even in my early teens realized that it was a bunch of malarkey, at least IMHO. And I decided I didn't believe any of it. Does that make me less of a person?

Oh... and what about all those people who took the religion of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, and based on some messiah and created a whole new religion. A religion that gave up many of the rules of the original religion?

I'm just wondering where you are coming from.

The Bible is the most common book in the Western civilization. But I have noticed today, the lack of knowledge pertaining to the Bible. This follows the lack of knowledge on basic history. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A8OBYmpMpw

mscottc wrote:
Yvonne,
Are you judging people who haven't read the bible? Are people who don't read the bible somehow less than you?
How about if I've primarily read only the set of books most Americans call the "First Testament?" Would that make me less of a person. How about if I read that so called "First Testament" and even in my early teens realized that it was a bunch of malarkey, at least IMHO. And I decided I didn't believe any of it. Does that make me less of a person?

Oh... and what about all those people who took the religion of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, and based on some messiah and created a whole new religion. A religion that gave up many of the rules of the original religion?

I'm just wondering where you are coming from.

drifterx wrote:
That's just bizarre. You think a melting pot is something that happens overnight? There is always resistance and it is a slow process. What you see as 'taking over' is nothing new. Even your criticism of that is nothing new. There will always be a struggle, there will always be some attempt of cultures one-upping for dominance but eventually we became America and no, we didn't all end up speaking Italian although some would probably think that's a shame.

drifterx wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
This, right here, is a simple example of why multi-cultural societies can't really work. You can't account for every religion out there. You have to say "ok, this society is X, here are the holidays, and if you need to take a few days for your own stuff fine but ultimately, this is these are the holidays that are this society's holidays because we are a ______ society." That's what happens in the middle east - they're Muslim. So everything is closed on Muslim holidays. Yet, for some reason we in the West have lost our way and feel the desperate need to appease every other religion out there so "they don't feel bad."

So guys, the national holidays are what they are for a reason. The reason is that this society was founded by (feel free to fill in the blank). There's zero reason to change that now - though I do note that there is a good reason to consider this when looking at our immigration policy.

The end. And yes, you can guess who I'm voting for in the election. And religiously, I'm not religious at all.

I think things like a 'multi-cultural society' doesn't work is because people would rather give up and fail to actually do the 'work'. Nothing can ever be perfect but America has been multi-cultural all these years so why are some Americans today suddenly giving up now? It was acceptable when the Irish and Italian Catholics moved in so now it isn't? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't perfect back then either. People resisted and persecuted those immigrants but our better angels prevailed and people worked at having good relations. So yeah, I have a pretty good idea on who you are voting for and it is a sad reminder of those early days but I believe in America that is inclusive and I will believe our better angels will prevail now as well.

I think it's rather sad that people cite the failure of one of this country's strengths just because they can't agree on holidays. /smh

Work it out people. It starts with talking to each other, not past each other.

devilsadvocate wrote:
This, right here, is a simple example of why multi-cultural societies can't really work. You can't account for every religion out there. You have to say "ok, this society is X, here are the holidays, and if you need to take a few days for your own stuff fine but ultimately, this is these are the holidays that are this society's holidays because we are a ______ society." That's what happens in the middle east - they're Muslim. So everything is closed on Muslim holidays. Yet, for some reason we in the West have lost our way and feel the desperate need to appease every other religion out there so "they don't feel bad."

So guys, the national holidays are what they are for a reason. The reason is that this society was founded by (feel free to fill in the blank). There's zero reason to change that now - though I do note that there is a good reason to consider this when looking at our immigration policy.

The end. And yes, you can guess who I'm voting for in the election. And religiously, I'm not religious at all.

r_pinkowitz wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
If a Jewish kid stays home on a high holiday and gets it marked as a 'regular' absence I agree with Boris-it's an outrage.

Monroe, I have no first hand knowledge of this. I grew up in New York and our schools were closed for Jewish High Holy days.

IMO children of all faiths and cultures should have the ability to celebrate and observe their most important holidays without being absent (and affecting their attendance record) from school. When you say "regular" absence is that different from an "excused absence"? Can someone chime in on this...

Monroe wrote:
If a Jewish kid stays home on a high holiday and gets it marked as a 'regular' absence I agree with Boris-it's an outrage.

Yvonne wrote:
This is about disrespecting other religion. But think about it you take another religion that existed thousands of years ago, change it and then demand a holiday for it.