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Re: Large Explosion in Chelsea - 135 W. 23rd - Dumpster Destroyed
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Lima17 wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
Lima 17, you are the classic example of a liberal. They are just as dangerous as the terrorist themselves because they lack common sense to protect America from harm. Even former Jimmy Carter had the common sense to stop immigration from Iran during the hostage crisis.


If there is a common sense answer to this problem, then please provide it to us. You say ban immigrants associated with ISIS. Then which are these "associated" with ISIS countries? Is it all countries who have had ISIS cells? Maybe the answer isn't as simple, as some simpleton's might think. So please define for us, which countries should be considered to be “associated” with ISIS”.
But you won’t.


"Core" countries include Syria and Iraq, where ISIS occupies physical territory. "Official" branches -- meaning a considerable terrorist presence -- exist in countries including Algeria, Nigeria, Libya, the Sinai Peninsula, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan and the Caucasus in southern Russia.

That said, it's not only about ISIS.

It's about the intention of the immigrant.

•Is the aim to carve a decent life through hard work and integrate peacefully in the host's society?

•Or is it to begin the slow steady spread of their doctrine upon their host?

Actually, for a while, both can be accomplished, but eventually a side has to be taken.

I can't speak for everyone's intent. But we all can refer to Islamic doctrine. You can find your answers there...

Where do we go from here?

Posted on: 2016/9/21 20:47
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Re: Large Explosion in Chelsea - 135 W. 23rd - Dumpster Destroyed
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JCMan8 wrote:
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T-Bird wrote:
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skinny wrote:
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T-Bird wrote:
The whole notion that Sharia law is just around the corner and that it is coming and will presage the rise of Islam in the U.S. is a red herring that the far right has tried to put out there for years now - and its very effective echo chamber has done a great job scaring those willing to listen. It's a very useful tool for judges in Alabama to trot out when seeking re-election - but show me one actual example where it has been implemented in the US. Or even attempted.

Arguments are funny - if you are selective with your timeframes and choose a several hundred year period many centuries ago, you can "prove" all sorts of things... but don't you think the actions of the past century are probably more relevant? Steady US bombing over the past 20 years... A century+ of French, British and American intervention in pursuit of oil... a wildly pro-Israel foreign policy that contributes to the marginalization of many in the middle east... We kill people daily in that part of the world, often innocent people. Is it really that hard to understand why at least a small number of their friends, relatives, countrymen, et al might not be willing to turn the other cheek? You can chicken and egg this thing forever, but US foreign policy plays a considerable role in all of this.

As Verbal Kint once said: "The explanation is never that complicated."


I am not claiming it is already here. But the effort is fully underway by some.

Rome wasn't built in a day....

http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/mu ... ere-is-her-epic-response/



Interesting you mention Rome - I would take the Rome example in the other direction: even the mightiest of empires come to an end. When you use force to get what you want (and vastly outconsume your share of resources along the way), no big surprise when you meet your end through force either.


I'm happy you are so honest. A typical example of the way liberals think. We shouldn't try to fight these attacks; we deserve them.


Your happiness couldn't be of less interest to me, but I am pleased that you acknowledge "thought". Seems to be lacking among those with whom you find common cause.

But to your points - as you would say: show me where I said we shouldn't fight them (big clue: I didn't.) Show me where I said we deserve them (another big clue: I didn't.) The whole "you liberals" thing is getting soooooo tired. Why not freshen it up with something a little more current? I prefer "fact-based."

Posted on: 2016/9/21 20:40
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Re: Large Explosion in Chelsea - 135 W. 23rd - Dumpster Destroyed
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Yvonne wrote:
Lima 17, you are the classic example of a liberal.


I'm fiscally conservative. I don't care who or what your fucking on your own time. I'm also okay with gun ownership, as long as their are background checks. I'm fine with immigration, as long as they follow the rules. Am I still a classic liberal?

Posted on: 2016/9/21 20:36
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Re: Large Explosion in Chelsea - 135 W. 23rd - Dumpster Destroyed
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Yvonne wrote:
Lima 17, you are the classic example of a liberal. They are just as dangerous as the terrorist themselves because they lack common sense to protect America from harm. Even former Jimmy Carter had the common sense to stop immigration from Iran during the hostage crisis.


If there is a common sense answer to this problem, then please provide it to us. You say ban immigrants associated with ISIS. Then which are these "associated" with ISIS countries? Is it all countries who have had ISIS cells? Maybe the answer isn't as simple, as some simpleton's might think. So please define for us, which countries should be considered to be “associated” with ISIS”.
But you won’t.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 20:26
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Re: Large Explosion in Chelsea - 135 W. 23rd - Dumpster Destroyed
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One thing to remember is that they want to kill each other-Sunnis vs Shiites. They're not even peaceful among themselves.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 20:13
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Re: Large Explosion in Chelsea - 135 W. 23rd - Dumpster Destroyed
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Lima 17, you are the classic example of a liberal. They are just as dangerous as the terrorist themselves because they lack common sense to protect America from harm. Even former Jimmy Carter had the common sense to stop immigration from Iran during the hostage crisis.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 20:07
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Re: Large Explosion in Chelsea - 135 W. 23rd - Dumpster Destroyed
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Yvonne wrote:
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Asif wrote:
I doubt they will watch this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlVyaIS20PU

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skinny wrote:
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Don't bother Bill. Most on this board won't watch it, and if they do they'll say every religion is bad. That's their answer.

Pathetic.


Did that preacher say to kill anyone who did not believe? That is a stretch to compare a belief to killing non-believers that is professed by ISIS and followers of Bin Laden.


What's your definition of a "country associated with ISIS"? Any country that has had an ISIS cell?

Posted on: 2016/9/21 18:51
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Re: Large Explosion in Chelsea - 135 W. 23rd - Dumpster Destroyed
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Two sought over unexploded NY device:

The FBI is seeking two men pictured with a suitcase that allegedly contained a bomb which failed to explode in New York on Saturday.
The pair appeared to remove the explosive device from the luggage before taking the bag with them.
Authorities are looking to question the two men and recover the suitcase.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37433684

Posted on: 2016/9/21 18:51
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T-Bird wrote:
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skinny wrote:
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T-Bird wrote:
The whole notion that Sharia law is just around the corner and that it is coming and will presage the rise of Islam in the U.S. is a red herring that the far right has tried to put out there for years now - and its very effective echo chamber has done a great job scaring those willing to listen. It's a very useful tool for judges in Alabama to trot out when seeking re-election - but show me one actual example where it has been implemented in the US. Or even attempted.

Arguments are funny - if you are selective with your timeframes and choose a several hundred year period many centuries ago, you can "prove" all sorts of things... but don't you think the actions of the past century are probably more relevant? Steady US bombing over the past 20 years... A century+ of French, British and American intervention in pursuit of oil... a wildly pro-Israel foreign policy that contributes to the marginalization of many in the middle east... We kill people daily in that part of the world, often innocent people. Is it really that hard to understand why at least a small number of their friends, relatives, countrymen, et al might not be willing to turn the other cheek? You can chicken and egg this thing forever, but US foreign policy plays a considerable role in all of this.

As Verbal Kint once said: "The explanation is never that complicated."


I am not claiming it is already here. But the effort is fully underway by some.

Rome wasn't built in a day....

http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/mu ... ere-is-her-epic-response/



Interesting you mention Rome - I would take the Rome example in the other direction: even the mightiest of empires come to an end. When you use force to get what you want (and vastly outconsume your share of resources along the way), no big surprise when you meet your end through force either.


I'm happy you are so honest. A typical example of the way liberals think. We shouldn't try to fight these attacks; we deserve them.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 18:36
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Re: Large Explosion in Chelsea - 135 W. 23rd - Dumpster Destroyed
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T-Bird wrote:
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skinny wrote:
Quote:

T-Bird wrote:
The whole notion that Sharia law is just around the corner and that it is coming and will presage the rise of Islam in the U.S. is a red herring that the far right has tried to put out there for years now - and its very effective echo chamber has done a great job scaring those willing to listen. It's a very useful tool for judges in Alabama to trot out when seeking re-election - but show me one actual example where it has been implemented in the US. Or even attempted.

Arguments are funny - if you are selective with your timeframes and choose a several hundred year period many centuries ago, you can "prove" all sorts of things... but don't you think the actions of the past century are probably more relevant? Steady US bombing over the past 20 years... A century+ of French, British and American intervention in pursuit of oil... a wildly pro-Israel foreign policy that contributes to the marginalization of many in the middle east... We kill people daily in that part of the world, often innocent people. Is it really that hard to understand why at least a small number of their friends, relatives, countrymen, et al might not be willing to turn the other cheek? You can chicken and egg this thing forever, but US foreign policy plays a considerable role in all of this.

As Verbal Kint once said: "The explanation is never that complicated."


I am not claiming it is already here. But the effort is fully underway by some.

Rome wasn't built in a day....

http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/mu ... ere-is-her-epic-response/



Interesting you mention Rome - I would take the Rome example in the other direction: even the mightiest of empires come to an end. When you use force to get what you want (and vastly outconsume your share of resources along the way), no big surprise when you meet your end through force either.


Who says the "US" empire will not one day rescind? Of course it will. But that does not mean we shouldn't work to preserve it. Why the fatalism?

Posted on: 2016/9/21 18:23
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Re: Large Explosion in Chelsea - 135 W. 23rd - Dumpster Destroyed
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Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

Asif wrote:
I doubt they will watch this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlVyaIS20PU

Quote:

skinny wrote:
Quote:

Don't bother Bill. Most on this board won't watch it, and if they do they'll say every religion is bad. That's their answer.

Pathetic.


Did that preacher say to kill anyone who did not believe? That is a stretch to compare a belief to killing non-believers that is professed by ISIS and followers of Bin Laden.



You are correct to say killing non-believers is professed by ISIS. But it would be more accurate to say killing non-believers is inscribed in Islamic doctrine. ISIS isn't creating anything new. They are not twisting their religion, or hijacking it. They are simply following it to the letter.

Fortunately for everyone, many Muslims do not do the same.

But those that do, can claim they are justified because it stated in their doctrine.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 18:19
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skinny wrote:
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T-Bird wrote:
The whole notion that Sharia law is just around the corner and that it is coming and will presage the rise of Islam in the U.S. is a red herring that the far right has tried to put out there for years now - and its very effective echo chamber has done a great job scaring those willing to listen. It's a very useful tool for judges in Alabama to trot out when seeking re-election - but show me one actual example where it has been implemented in the US. Or even attempted.

Arguments are funny - if you are selective with your timeframes and choose a several hundred year period many centuries ago, you can "prove" all sorts of things... but don't you think the actions of the past century are probably more relevant? Steady US bombing over the past 20 years... A century+ of French, British and American intervention in pursuit of oil... a wildly pro-Israel foreign policy that contributes to the marginalization of many in the middle east... We kill people daily in that part of the world, often innocent people. Is it really that hard to understand why at least a small number of their friends, relatives, countrymen, et al might not be willing to turn the other cheek? You can chicken and egg this thing forever, but US foreign policy plays a considerable role in all of this.

As Verbal Kint once said: "The explanation is never that complicated."


I am not claiming it is already here. But the effort is fully underway by some.

Rome wasn't built in a day....

http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/mu ... ere-is-her-epic-response/



Interesting you mention Rome - I would take the Rome example in the other direction: even the mightiest of empires come to an end. When you use force to get what you want (and vastly outconsume your share of resources along the way), no big surprise when you meet your end through force either.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 18:17
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Re: Large Explosion in Chelsea - 135 W. 23rd - Dumpster Destroyed
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Yvonne wrote:
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manu wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
No you do not ban all immigration but you ban immigration from countries that want to harm you. President Carter banned immigration from Iran in the hostage crisis. Common sense, you do not allow people in who plans on killing you.


Please tell us what are the countries you would ban immigration from.


Any country associated with ISIS.


What's your definition of a "country associated with ISIS"? Any country that has had an ISIS cell? So you want to ban immigration from most of Europe??


And Minnesota?

Posted on: 2016/9/21 18:16
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T-Bird wrote:
The whole notion that Sharia law is just around the corner and that it is coming and will presage the rise of Islam in the U.S. is a red herring that the far right has tried to put out there for years now - and its very effective echo chamber has done a great job scaring those willing to listen. It's a very useful tool for judges in Alabama to trot out when seeking re-election - but show me one actual example where it has been implemented in the US. Or even attempted.

Arguments are funny - if you are selective with your timeframes and choose a several hundred year period many centuries ago, you can "prove" all sorts of things... but don't you think the actions of the past century are probably more relevant? Steady US bombing over the past 20 years... A century+ of French, British and American intervention in pursuit of oil... a wildly pro-Israel foreign policy that contributes to the marginalization of many in the middle east... We kill people daily in that part of the world, often innocent people. Is it really that hard to understand why at least a small number of their friends, relatives, countrymen, et al might not be willing to turn the other cheek? You can chicken and egg this thing forever, but US foreign policy plays a considerable role in all of this.

As Verbal Kint once said: "The explanation is never that complicated."


I am not claiming it is already here. But the effort is fully underway by some.

Rome wasn't built in a day....

http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/mu ... ere-is-her-epic-response/


Posted on: 2016/9/21 17:57
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Asif wrote:
I doubt they will watch this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlVyaIS20PU

Quote:

skinny wrote:
Quote:

Don't bother Bill. Most on this board won't watch it, and if they do they'll say every religion is bad. That's their answer.

Pathetic.


Did that preacher say to kill anyone who did not believe? That is a stretch to compare a belief to killing non-believers that is professed by ISIS and followers of Bin Laden.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 17:57
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manu wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
No you do not ban all immigration but you ban immigration from countries that want to harm you. President Carter banned immigration from Iran in the hostage crisis. Common sense, you do not allow people in who plans on killing you.


Please tell us what are the countries you would ban immigration from.


Any country associated with ISIS.


What's your definition of a "country associated with ISIS"? Any country that has had an ISIS cell? So you want to ban immigration from most of Europe??

Posted on: 2016/9/21 17:54
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The whole notion that Sharia law is just around the corner and that it is coming and will presage the rise of Islam in the U.S. is a red herring that the far right has tried to put out there for years now - and its very effective echo chamber has done a great job scaring those willing to listen. It's a very useful tool for judges in Alabama to trot out when seeking re-election - but show me one actual example where it has been implemented in the US. Or even attempted.

Arguments are funny - if you are selective with your timeframes and choose a several hundred year period many centuries ago, you can "prove" all sorts of things... but don't you think the actions of the past century are probably more relevant? Steady US bombing over the past 20 years... A century+ of French, British and American intervention in pursuit of oil... a wildly pro-Israel foreign policy that contributes to the marginalization of many in the middle east... We kill people daily in that part of the world, often innocent people. Is it really that hard to understand why at least a small number of their friends, relatives, countrymen, et al might not be willing to turn the other cheek? You can chicken and egg this thing forever, but US foreign policy plays a considerable role in all of this.

As Verbal Kint once said: "The explanation is never that complicated."

Posted on: 2016/9/21 17:37
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Isn't the message different? Isn't one passive and the other active?

Posted on: 2016/9/21 17:13
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I doubt they will watch this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlVyaIS20PU

Quote:

skinny wrote:
Quote:

Don't bother Bill. Most on this board won't watch it, and if they do they'll say every religion is bad. That's their answer.

Pathetic.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 17:00
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I don't know if the video is real or not....especially since the poster is a right winger....who in his profile pic is all geared up for some hunting with this trusty assault rifle....but if it is true its scary.

The irony is that the only commenter on the video states:


gas, deport, idgaf every religious muslim has to leave the west forever?.

Nothing makes the world a better place than fighting hate with violence an more hate.



Quote:


Asif, so far, you have been the only one to provide relevant counter arguments...and not simply play the hate card when backed into a corner.

As far as the video being real, it could be, or could not be. But it is fair to say nothing being spoken about is outside the realm of hardline Islam. I think you can agree with that.

Secondly, I did not see the source, but so what if it is from a right wing source? What, are we suppose to get all our info from left wing sources only? Also, had a left wing media source gotten a hold of this video they wouldn't post anyway, because it does not align with their agenda. So we have to consider all sources to come to a better understanding.

And by no means am I, or perhaps anybody here, suggesting violence against any group (unless it is a self defense situation).

What I am trying to get people here aware of is the relatively large portion of Islam's hate doctrine toward non-muslims. It cannot be ignored.

You sound like a peaceful person. I would bet you would not wish harm on anyone. And I believe many Muslims feel exactly the same. But regardless of the violence, Islamic law does not coalesce with Western society. That does not mean Muslims can't enjoy our liberties. But where the line must not be crossed is Muslims cannot begin to instill Sharia here in the States. Would you agree?


Posted on: 2016/9/21 16:38
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I don't know if the video is real or not....especially since the poster is a right winger....who in his profile pic is all geared up for some hunting with this trusty assault rifle....but if it is true its scary.

The irony is that the only commenter on the video states:


gas, deport, idgaf every religious muslim has to leave the west forever?.

Nothing makes the world a better place than fighting hate with violence an more hate.



Quote:

Posted on: 2016/9/21 16:17
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Don't bother Bill. Most on this board won't watch it, and if they do they'll say every religion is bad. That's their answer.

Pathetic.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 16:07
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Posted on: 2016/9/21 15:58
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135jc wrote:
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manu wrote:
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135jc wrote:
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manu wrote:
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135jc wrote:
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manu wrote:
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TheBigGuy wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
I am a baby boomer, as a very young child, I had European immigrants in my classes. Their mothers and father survived World War 2. I remember them well due to their strong accents. Later in high school a large number of Cubans left Cuban and some were also in my classes. The one thing the European and Cuban immigrants have in common, they did not place bombs in this country and terrorize citizens in their new country. This country is not against immigrants, we are against people who want to kill us. You cannot tell the difference between a Syrian and a member of ISIS. Some of ISIS also immigrated to Europe with disastrous results. I cannot believe the leftist talk here.



And not one of these people have expressed any concern about the civil right to life of the victims of these radical Muslim inspired atrocities, anywhere in the world. Who speaks for the dead and the maimed survivors, their families and friends who have suffered a tragic loss. Their loved ones innocently living their lives, enjoying a night out dancing in Orlando or a rock concert in Paris.

I really would love to see these some of these defenders of unvetted mass immigration explain their foolish and dangerous justifications to the terror attack survivors in rehab learning how to walk again or recovering from brain concussions.

The suffering of you and your family is a sacrifice Americans must make to ensure the proper assimilation of people from a culture whose values are diametrically opposite of our own American value system. You will learn to love Sharia Law.


I don't think anybody on this board is defending mass immigration without vetting? Actually, there is a already a lot vetting in the current immigration process. Could it be better? I guess but I don't know enough to judge.

I am an immigrant and I went though the process. After more than 16 years legally in the country, I am actually still going through it...


You followed the rules. Following the rules is the harder path. That is why many do not. The argument here is there are many who believe all that made it here are entitled to stay.


What make you think that refugees are not following the rules?


Whomever follows the legal process IS entitled to stay.


So that settles the Syrian refugees conversation then. As long as they follow the process, they should be welcomed.
. For me yes. However where do they go in the meantime until the process is complete.


This article describes the process quite well by telling the story of a Syrian family:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/n ... 2-bfe3092ac7cc_story.html

Posted on: 2016/9/21 15:45
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Re: Large Explosion in Chelsea - 135 W. 23rd - Dumpster Destroyed
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Btw, my last post was directed to WhoElseCouldItBe

Posted on: 2016/9/21 15:42
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Re: Large Explosion in Chelsea - 135 W. 23rd - Dumpster Destroyed
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Really? That's all you got?

You're going to make this about me and NOT the real issue?
It is irrelevant if I hate them or not. What is RELEVANT is, is political Islam a threat based on all the evidence and 1400 years of documented history?

This is what happens when you try to argue with Liberals.


Posted on: 2016/9/21 15:38
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Re: Large Explosion in Chelsea - 135 W. 23rd - Dumpster Destroyed
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I hate no one, it is not my job to judge someone regardless of what they believe, but I draw the line in the sand at allowing someone to come here who wants to kill us, especially if you believe you will receive 72 virgins as a martyr.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 15:36
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Re: Large Explosion in Chelsea - 135 W. 23rd - Dumpster Destroyed
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Quote:

manu wrote:
Quote:

135jc wrote:
Quote:

manu wrote:
Quote:

135jc wrote:
Quote:

manu wrote:
Quote:

TheBigGuy wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
I am a baby boomer, as a very young child, I had European immigrants in my classes. Their mothers and father survived World War 2. I remember them well due to their strong accents. Later in high school a large number of Cubans left Cuban and some were also in my classes. The one thing the European and Cuban immigrants have in common, they did not place bombs in this country and terrorize citizens in their new country. This country is not against immigrants, we are against people who want to kill us. You cannot tell the difference between a Syrian and a member of ISIS. Some of ISIS also immigrated to Europe with disastrous results. I cannot believe the leftist talk here.



And not one of these people have expressed any concern about the civil right to life of the victims of these radical Muslim inspired atrocities, anywhere in the world. Who speaks for the dead and the maimed survivors, their families and friends who have suffered a tragic loss. Their loved ones innocently living their lives, enjoying a night out dancing in Orlando or a rock concert in Paris.

I really would love to see these some of these defenders of unvetted mass immigration explain their foolish and dangerous justifications to the terror attack survivors in rehab learning how to walk again or recovering from brain concussions.

The suffering of you and your family is a sacrifice Americans must make to ensure the proper assimilation of people from a culture whose values are diametrically opposite of our own American value system. You will learn to love Sharia Law.


I don't think anybody on this board is defending mass immigration without vetting? Actually, there is a already a lot vetting in the current immigration process. Could it be better? I guess but I don't know enough to judge.

I am an immigrant and I went though the process. After more than 16 years legally in the country, I am actually still going through it...


You followed the rules. Following the rules is the harder path. That is why many do not. The argument here is there are many who believe all that made it here are entitled to stay.


What make you think that refugees are not following the rules?


Whomever follows the legal process IS entitled to stay.


So that settles the Syrian refugees conversation then. As long as they follow the process, they should be welcomed.
. For me yes. However where do they go in the meantime until the process is complete.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 15:28
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Re: Large Explosion in Chelsea - 135 W. 23rd - Dumpster Destroyed
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skinny wrote:


THEY HATE US because we are not like them. PERIOD.

It's that simple.




So do you.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 15:26
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Re: Large Explosion in Chelsea - 135 W. 23rd - Dumpster Destroyed
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It's NOT simply about migrants.

It's about migrants who devoutly follow the Koran, Haddiths and Sira.

It is a supremacist ideology cloaked in religion. And because it is partly a religion, it is protected by our 1st Amendment. And understandably, defended by Liberals. The problem is that there is disconnect because Liberals REFUSE to acknowledge, much less inform themselves, on the specifics of this doctrine.

The deeper a migrant accepts these doctrines as their way of life, the more it is in direct contradiction to our Constitution and Values. Their way of thinking becomes a potential threat, regardless if they act out violently.

They don't hate us because we're a free people. Look at all the inner strife and wars amongst themselves in the middle east and elsewhere.

They don't hate us because of our foreign policy. America has had roughly 200 years of foreign policy. Islam has been at war with the world for 1400 years.

They don't hate us because we don't love them enough. Or because we hate them too much.

THEY HATE US because we are not like them. PERIOD.

It's that simple.



Posted on: 2016/9/21 15:23
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