VanVorster wrote:
If anyone has taken the time to have a cursory review of JCMan8's posts as well as a few others, it's obvious that racism and invective on here is clickbait to feed the trolls and keep the conversation going. It's another reason to avoid engaging them as they love conflict and using inflammatory provocative language (e.g. "inferior groups . . . I mean on paper") He and others are probably proponents of eugenics.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/20 ... ink-about-asian-americans

http://www.ncsociology.org/sociationtoday/v21/merit.htm

http://www.pbs.org/race/000_About/002_04-background-03-02.htm

devilsadvocate wrote:
What you're missing is the very basic notion that choosing students based on race is inherently racist. Telling students they have to do better or try a little less hard because they are marking whatever race checkbox is the height of racism. The fact that it goes "in all direction" is meaningless. What makes this the most offensive is that it is taxpayer funded. When some random person says something racist I really don't care. When racist views become law and public policy alarm bells should be going off.

Anyway, my hope is that soon enough, the public sector will no longer be able to use AA. AA has steadily been eroded elsewhere. Hopefully, the Supreme Court will soon deal it another blow.

JPhurst wrote:
I can understand the sensitivity of using race as a factor, and one can argue that, regardless of its effects under the circumstances, it cannot be done. But I cannot understand fetishizing test scores to the point where such scores transform the test taker into a "worthy" or an "inferior" applicant.

Pebble wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
I'll agree that it is racist, but I'll argue that describing a group in a racist manner is significantly better than actually discriminating against a group because of their race (which is what is happening), particularly when the discriminating organization is the government that we're all forced to fund. Also, I'll note that stating that their test scores/grades/academic performance, when viewed as a group, is significantly worse than Asians isn't really racist - it is just a fact. I strongly suspect that the quote was trying to say this.

At this moment, there is no discrimination noted. There is a quota stating that the racial makeup of our top school matches the racial makeup of our population. That seems like a fairly equitable system.

Additionally, the school does not admit ?groups?. The school admits students based on their grades and test scores. You have no example of anyone being left out of the school while someone with a lower score is let in.

If there are students being sent away while someone that is barely passing is let in, I?ll join your outrage. It seems quite a bit forced to be outraged over the possibility that there could be some student somewhere getting left out.

On the flipside, I?ll note that it is entirely plausible that there are black students and/or white students and/or Hispanic students which meet the requirements left out while the Asian quota is met.

Lastly, the quote was of an individual that is a straight up racist making a consistently racist statement in line with his other racist statements. You can choose to ignore his history of bigotry, but I won?t.

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devilsadvocate wrote:
A strict racial quota will result in different groups having better or worse scores because you're not having people compete directly, but rather people competing for a pre-selected number of slots assigned for their group. There WILL necessarily be racism in some direction, unless you end up with a completely bizarre statistical fluke that is less likely than a guy winning the powerball lottery twice.

Again, the racial quota works in all directions and seems to be creating a very equitable balance representing the racial makeup of this city.
From the first post:

With the primary goal of diversity through affirmative action, the school enrollment is based on a quota of 25% White, 25% Black, 25% Hispanic, and 25% Other (mostly Asian).

From the 2010 Census:
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The racial makeup of the city was 32.67% (80,885) White, 25.85% (64,002) Black or African American, 0.51% (1,272) Native American, 23.67% (58,595) Asian, 0.07% (161) Pacific Islander, 12.81% (31,726) from other races, and 4.42% (10,956) from two or more races. Hispanics or Latinos of any race were 27.57% (68,256) of the population.

I?m unsure of how you don?t see this as anything but the fairest way to enable the schools top students from each representative race in this city to achieve success.

I will, however, agree with you in that the city should be looking to build on McNair and create a second great school as karindiann is pointing out.

JCMan8 wrote:
There was nothing in my post that was racist.

I said that Asians brought a lawsuit claiming they are being discriminated against on the basis of their race. This is true. They also claim they are being passed over in favor of inferior groups. This is also true. It's obvious by that I mean inferior on paper (grades, test scores, etc.). And that's just a fact and it's the reason they are suing.

Pebble is using the typical liberal playbook here. Fixate on how some language is "racist," even though no races are mentioned, so you can deflect from the real issues at hand: race based discrimination against some groups in favor of others.

devilsadvocate wrote:
I'll agree that it is racist, but I'll argue that describing a group in a racist manner is significantly better than actually discriminating against a group because of their race (which is what is happening), particularly when the discriminating organization is the government that we're all forced to fund. Also, I'll note that stating that their test scores/grades/academic performance, when viewed as a group, is significantly worse than Asians isn't really racist - it is just a fact. I strongly suspect that the quote was trying to say this.

devilsadvocate wrote:
A strict racial quota will result in different groups having better or worse scores because you're not having people compete directly, but rather people competing for a pre-selected number of slots assigned for their group. There WILL necessarily be racism in some direction, unless you end up with a completely bizarre statistical fluke that is less likely than a guy winning the powerball lottery twice.

The racial makeup of the city was 32.67% (80,885) White, 25.85% (64,002) Black or African American, 0.51% (1,272) Native American, 23.67% (58,595) Asian, 0.07% (161) Pacific Islander, 12.81% (31,726) from other races, and 4.42% (10,956) from two or more races. Hispanics or Latinos of any race were 27.57% (68,256) of the population.

devilsadvocate wrote:

I agree with this. Rather than trying to force race-quotas to serve students from poor neighborhoods at McNair we should work to create another elite school like McNair in the poorer school districts. Don't redivide the pie, bake a second pie.

devilsadvocate wrote:
Rather than trying to force race-quotas to serve students from poor neighborhoods at McNair we should work to create another elite school like McNair in the poorer school districts. Don't redivide the pie, bake a second pie.

Pebble wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
A group of Asians sued Harvard for their affirmative action policy, claiming it was race based discrimination against Asians in favor of inferior groups.

I think they are right.

We will see what happens in court.

Racists say the darndest things!

You know what is racist? Telling well qualified Asians that if they were black (or even white at some schools) that they would accepted but because they're Asian they need to go to a crappier school.

It could be. But qualifying a group of people as "an inferior group" to Asians is the very definition of racist.

At this moment, we don't have a list of those that were kept out, who made it in and why. There is simply an assumption.

It sounds a lot like Fisher v. U. of Texas. A girl that does not meet the requirements decides to select out 15 black students that had lower scores than her which were accepted and then ignores the 100 white students that had lower scores than her which were accepted.

Do you know for a fact that there are students who are held out because another student with lower scores is getting in? Are you making an assumption that lower score students are getting in because there is a quota number there based on nationality?

devilsadvocate wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
A group of Asians sued Harvard for their affirmative action policy, claiming it was race based discrimination against Asians in favor of inferior groups.

I think they are right.

We will see what happens in court.

Racists say the darndest things!

You know what is racist? Telling well qualified Asians that if they were black (or even white at some schools) that they would accepted but because they're Asian they need to go to a crappier school.

corybraiterman wrote:
Meh, i have no problem with it. I didn't get in way back in the day (waitlisted) and it certainly wasn't the worst thing that happened to me. I've got no problems in a city as diverse as this one in using affirmative action to ensure a big salad bowl of students.

That said, I think the numbers need some tweaking to reflect the current demographics, but i have no problem with the principle

equn wrote:
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MDM wrote:
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my2cents wrote:
If true, must suck if you are in the other category....wait for another discrimination lawsuit.

If you fall into the Asian or White category, you may need to have really high academic / test scores relative to the student body as a whole to get in. Even then, that might not be enough.

Thank you MDM that's what I hear too. Both my wife and myself are Asian, 100%, and we don't want to cheat on picking the racial category. It truly sucks though to be Asian on being admitted into top academic schools in JC.

We do NOT want to bring up our kid in a way that focuses on academic performance solely. But it looks like the system is very much against us...

Og_jerseycity wrote:
I have never posted but feel the need to since I am an Academic Alumni back when it was on Bentley and Bergen and the downtowners weren't all over it. This school has done wonders for people like me who grew up poor in Bergen Lafayette. Back when I was in that area Snyder and Lincoln were in worse shape than now and we had very few choices. Now everyone is trying to get their kids in but it is impossible because there is many more children than their are good schools. Why not push to create another school just like Mcnair to accommodate more students.
Academic has worked and it is still working. The fact is that now things are changing in JC. If everyone has a problem with the Jersey city school system then either get involved and make the change or don't move here and complain that it is horrible. Many people who are professionals now went to JC schools and we turned out just fine. If you can afford it then send your kids to private school. The answer is to re-evaluate the other high schools, create another boot camp style school for kids who don't want to go to college or study and continue encouraging those who work hard to get into Academic. It is still very challenging and a tough school. Many kids can't handle it.
JC schools were far worse when I was a kid and we dealt with it because we had no choice. This is not a suburb it is still JC. Downtown might have changed but the rest of us are still living with similar conditions to a decade ago. I wish Academic students continued success and encourage their hard work.

Pebble wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
A group of Asians sued Harvard for their affirmative action policy, claiming it was race based discrimination against Asians in favor of inferior groups.

I think they are right.

We will see what happens in court.

Racists say the darndest things!

JadedJC wrote:
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brewster wrote:
Saw an article about a Asian college consulting firm that charges $100k to groom your kid through high school to look less like the typical Asian grind. Less violin, more theater. Less badminton, more football. They're in this game at a different level than the rest of us, who think our children should have a childhood other than homework and test prep. Lots of my son's classmates never get to socialize after school or on a Saturday night, it's simply not done in their culture.

I'm not sure grades and scores should be all there is to entrance. And Trucker is wrong about the test being ALL at McNair, We've been told the PSAT and essay is less than half of the criteria they use, which includes grades, extracurriculars, recommendations and attendance.

Having been raised in that culture, I can tell you that Asian parents don't think beyond getting their kids into Harvard, Yale or Princeton. They think that once their child gets into one of these schools, they have it made for life. Sure, going to one of these schools does help your job prospects, but plenty of Asian kids go to Rutgers and turn out just fine. Better than fine, in fact. A lot of the top schools aren't just looking for high test scores, they're looking to groom the leaders of tomorrow - someone with that creative spark or that desire to give back to the community. Asian child-rearing simply has no room for thinking outside the box. That's why Asians won't likely come up with the next Apple or Google. It's a pity more Asian parents don't focus on raising a happy, well-adjusted human being. It's all about making as much money as you can as an adult so you can show off that BMW X-5 in your driveway - and, of course, take care of your parents in their old age.

The smart Asian kids rebel and push back. You should have seen what a family crisis/scandal it was when I decided to pursue a liberal arts degree rather than something in math or science. You would have thought there was a drug addict or teen pregnancy in the family. In the end, the parents lightened up when they realized I was still employable and able to make a fairly decent living at something I actually loved doing. Too bad it took them until my late 30s to see the light.

brewster wrote:
Saw an article about a Asian college consulting firm that charges $100k to groom your kid through high school to look less like the typical Asian grind. Less violin, more theater. Less badminton, more football. They're in this game at a different level than the rest of us, who think our children should have a childhood other than homework and test prep. Lots of my son's classmates never get to socialize after school or on a Saturday night, it's simply not done in their culture.

I'm not sure grades and scores should be all there is to entrance. And Trucker is wrong about the test being ALL at McNair, We've been told the PSAT and essay is less than half of the criteria they use, which includes grades, extracurriculars, recommendations and attendance.

JCMan8 wrote:
A group of Asians sued Harvard for their affirmative action policy, claiming it was race based discrimination against Asians in favor of inferior groups.

I think they are right.

We will see what happens in court.

JCMan8 wrote:
A group of Asians sued Harvard for their affirmative action policy, claiming it was race based discrimination against Asians in favor of inferior groups groups with lesser academic achievement.

heights wrote:
So merit and grades are out the window then.

heights wrote:
So merit and grades are out the window then.

heights wrote:
So merit and grades are out the window then.

Kelcey wrote:
You can see the racial/ethnic breakdown on the NCES website:

NCES 2013-14 CCD for McNair

You can dig into the breakdown by gender and race/ethnicity by grade level by downloading the CCD public school universe file at http://nces.ed.gov/ccd/pubschuniv.asp.