borisp wrote:
Quote:

JPHurst wrote:
Actually, I always saw the Cuban emigres as more analogous to the Arabs who fought Israel. There was a war, they lost, and for generations they insist on undoing something that wont be undone.

Well, the Arabs attacked Israel with an intent to exterminate all the Jews. They wanted that for a long time. In 1941 Mufti of Jerusalem negotiated with Hitler trying to get his help in extending the "final solution" to the Holy Land.
Cuban emigres on the other hand weren't aggressors at all. They defended what was theirs against the murderous communist aggression.
In order to see an analogy here one has to be either very antisemitic, or very ignorant.

Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
Not the same thing genius. If you had escaped the Nazis and had the ability to go back and fight then I hope you would. A large percentage of Cubans in Miami are whiners and do nothings. Their best effort was when they kidnapped Elian Gonzalez and kept him from his father.

Not true. They went back and tried to fight, but President Kennedy who promised them backing, betrayed them.

Quote:

Brewster wrote:
Had the US not been so ardent at supporting dictators, AKA "our bastards", throughout the Americas in the name of Liberty, perhaps some of those nations would have been more open to US style democracy and capitalism.

Well, it's a standard slogan, but it does match the reality. I know of few countries that the US took under its wing when they were in a pretty bad shape, like South Korea, Germany, Japan and others. And I am pretty sure that nowadays they look fine democracy-wise. And I know countries like South Vietnam and Iraq where we did promise support but then decided they don't deserve same treatment as the countries from the first list. We withdrew and, well, what followed wasn't pretty.

It's not about ability, it's about decency. Do you not have any moral compass at all? Do you not see that it is immoral to befriend murderers and racists? Do you not understand that it's immoral to betray their victims?

When we dealt with the USSR and China at least we had a good excuse that we were trying to avoid a nuclear war! Why are you eager to "normalize" with the Cuban butchers?

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

hero69 wrote:
Quote:

user1111 wrote:
Why black Americans love Fidel Castro

When it came to matching words with deeds on the topic of racial equality, the most stalwart leader of the Western hemisphere, over the course of the 20th century, was Fidel Castro.


I say this as a black American who came to bond closely with Latin America as an adult, living in Mexico for almost two years, traveling and staying with families in the Dominican Republic, and making more than half a dozen visits to Cuba, where I strolled through its enchanting cities and drove into the far reaches of the countryside, forging relationships with its people, especially those of darker hue.



More

interesting, but isn't the cuban elite of european descent, while those working in the sugarcane fields of african descent

In addition to the stupidity expressed by the column, as Cuba is a very racist country, the column also uses a double standard commonly employed in today's society. Notice the headline. The black author purports to speak on behalf of all Black Americans.

hero69 wrote:
Quote:

user1111 wrote:
Why black Americans love Fidel Castro

When it came to matching words with deeds on the topic of racial equality, the most stalwart leader of the Western hemisphere, over the course of the 20th century, was Fidel Castro.


I say this as a black American who came to bond closely with Latin America as an adult, living in Mexico for almost two years, traveling and staying with families in the Dominican Republic, and making more than half a dozen visits to Cuba, where I strolled through its enchanting cities and drove into the far reaches of the countryside, forging relationships with its people, especially those of darker hue.



More

interesting, but isn't the cuban elite of european descent, while those working in the sugarcane fields of african descent

user1111 wrote:
Why black Americans love Fidel Castro

When it came to matching words with deeds on the topic of racial equality, the most stalwart leader of the Western hemisphere, over the course of the 20th century, was Fidel Castro.


I say this as a black American who came to bond closely with Latin America as an adult, living in Mexico for almost two years, traveling and staying with families in the Dominican Republic, and making more than half a dozen visits to Cuba, where I strolled through its enchanting cities and drove into the far reaches of the countryside, forging relationships with its people, especially those of darker hue.



More

Pebble wrote:
I'm really wondering about the sanity of some. Where is this "infatuation the extreme left have with Cuba." I would like some examples.

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

caj11 wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

caj11 wrote:
You know, I think its great that relations will be normalized and the embargo lifted too, as trying to isolate Cuba was not doing a damn thing to topple the communist regime there. However, I don't understand the extreme left's infatuation with Cuba either. Both Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton used to heavily praise Castro. Yet, despite the fact that the country is about 1/3 of African or Mestizo descent, there is not a single minority in a leadership position in the Castro regime. There never has been. Cuba on some counts may be a more racist country than the USA.

Furthermore, Cuba has been touted as a place where 100% of the people have access to modern health care. Yes, the 100% part may be true, but I am not so sure about the "modern" part. Communist party officials and foreigners with cash get to go to one set of hospitals that are clean and modern. The locals visit these squalid shitholes I wouldn't take a dog to. Cuba always used to harp on the fact that close to a 1/3 of Americans had no real health insurance, yet I haven't seen much criticism of their two-tiered system. Foreigners visiting Cuba go to certain beaches, stay at certain hotels and eat at certain restaurants where locals are not allowed to be (not that they could afford it anyway). Stores are also on a two-tiered system - the stores for foreigners and top government officials and the stores for the locals. You can guess which ones are better.

There is a great website with a lot of pictures that details everything pretty well. The part about "racism in Cuba" is especially interesting, but take the time to look at the hospitals, beaches and restaurants that the locals are restricted to, and what the foreigners visit while in Cuba. Here's the link:

www.therealcuba.com

I'm really wondering about the sanity of some. Where is this "infatuation the extreme left have with Cuba." I would like some examples.

In terms of politics, Communism does fall into the spectrum on the far left. However, that isn't what anyone here, other than communists, are asking for.

http://peoplesworld.org/jesse-jackson-visits-cuba/

http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/10/1 ... son-speaks-cuban-embargo/

http://www.afrocubaweb.com/alsharpton.htm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/roger-h ... r-human-rig_b_114836.html

And click on the previous link I sent on the part about "Racism in Cuba". It gives some very good details about Jesse Jackson's previous visits to Cuba.

Go look up any self-proclaimed Socialist politician in the USA, and chances are, they've made a statement about how great Cuba is.

I clicked the link you posted before and read each of the links you posted here. I'm failing to see the "infatuation" that you are claiming exists. I also don't see any praise for Castro in any of those articles.

As for your last comment, yes, useless Socialist Party candidates that almost never win elections sing the praises of Cuba. They are goofballs. What else do expect of them? Maybe you know better than me, but are there any relevant Socialist Party members?

borisp wrote:

Well, the Arabs attacked Israel with an intent to exterminate all the Jews. They wanted that for a long time. In 1941 Mufti of Jerusalem negotiated with Hitler trying to get his help in extending the "final solution" to the Holy Land.
Cuban emigres on the other hand weren't aggressors at all. They defended what was theirs against the murderous communist aggression.
In order to see an analogy here one has to be either very antisemitic, or very ignorant.

caj11 wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

caj11 wrote:
You know, I think its great that relations will be normalized and the embargo lifted too, as trying to isolate Cuba was not doing a damn thing to topple the communist regime there. However, I don't understand the extreme left's infatuation with Cuba either. Both Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton used to heavily praise Castro. Yet, despite the fact that the country is about 1/3 of African or Mestizo descent, there is not a single minority in a leadership position in the Castro regime. There never has been. Cuba on some counts may be a more racist country than the USA.

Furthermore, Cuba has been touted as a place where 100% of the people have access to modern health care. Yes, the 100% part may be true, but I am not so sure about the "modern" part. Communist party officials and foreigners with cash get to go to one set of hospitals that are clean and modern. The locals visit these squalid shitholes I wouldn't take a dog to. Cuba always used to harp on the fact that close to a 1/3 of Americans had no real health insurance, yet I haven't seen much criticism of their two-tiered system. Foreigners visiting Cuba go to certain beaches, stay at certain hotels and eat at certain restaurants where locals are not allowed to be (not that they could afford it anyway). Stores are also on a two-tiered system - the stores for foreigners and top government officials and the stores for the locals. You can guess which ones are better.

There is a great website with a lot of pictures that details everything pretty well. The part about "racism in Cuba" is especially interesting, but take the time to look at the hospitals, beaches and restaurants that the locals are restricted to, and what the foreigners visit while in Cuba. Here's the link:

www.therealcuba.com

I'm really wondering about the sanity of some. Where is this "infatuation the extreme left have with Cuba." I would like some examples.

In terms of politics, Communism does fall into the spectrum on the far left. However, that isn't what anyone here, other than communists, are asking for.

http://peoplesworld.org/jesse-jackson-visits-cuba/

http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/10/1 ... son-speaks-cuban-embargo/

http://www.afrocubaweb.com/alsharpton.htm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/roger-h ... r-human-rig_b_114836.html

And click on the previous link I sent on the part about "Racism in Cuba". It gives some very good details about Jesse Jackson's previous visits to Cuba.

Go look up any self-proclaimed Socialist politician in the USA, and chances are, they've made a statement about how great Cuba is.

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

caj11 wrote:
You know, I think its great that relations will be normalized and the embargo lifted too, as trying to isolate Cuba was not doing a damn thing to topple the communist regime there. However, I don't understand the extreme left's infatuation with Cuba either. Both Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton used to heavily praise Castro. Yet, despite the fact that the country is about 1/3 of African or Mestizo descent, there is not a single minority in a leadership position in the Castro regime. There never has been. Cuba on some counts may be a more racist country than the USA.

Furthermore, Cuba has been touted as a place where 100% of the people have access to modern health care. Yes, the 100% part may be true, but I am not so sure about the "modern" part. Communist party officials and foreigners with cash get to go to one set of hospitals that are clean and modern. The locals visit these squalid shitholes I wouldn't take a dog to. Cuba always used to harp on the fact that close to a 1/3 of Americans had no real health insurance, yet I haven't seen much criticism of their two-tiered system. Foreigners visiting Cuba go to certain beaches, stay at certain hotels and eat at certain restaurants where locals are not allowed to be (not that they could afford it anyway). Stores are also on a two-tiered system - the stores for foreigners and top government officials and the stores for the locals. You can guess which ones are better.

There is a great website with a lot of pictures that details everything pretty well. The part about "racism in Cuba" is especially interesting, but take the time to look at the hospitals, beaches and restaurants that the locals are restricted to, and what the foreigners visit while in Cuba. Here's the link:

www.therealcuba.com

I'm really wondering about the sanity of some. Where is this "infatuation the extreme left have with Cuba." I would like some examples.

In terms of politics, Communism does fall into the spectrum on the far left. However, that isn't what anyone here, other than communists, are asking for.

user1111 wrote:
Travel and commerce restrictions against Cuba could be lifted as early as next month. Bon Voyage!

caj11 wrote:
You know, I think its great that relations will be normalized and the embargo lifted too, as trying to isolate Cuba was not doing a damn thing to topple the communist regime there. However, I don't understand the extreme left's infatuation with Cuba either. Both Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton used to heavily praise Castro. Yet, despite the fact that the country is about 1/3 of African or Mestizo descent, there is not a single minority in a leadership position in the Castro regime. There never has been. Cuba on some counts may be a more racist country than the USA.

Furthermore, Cuba has been touted as a place where 100% of the people have access to modern health care. Yes, the 100% part may be true, but I am not so sure about the "modern" part. Communist party officials and foreigners with cash get to go to one set of hospitals that are clean and modern. The locals visit these squalid shitholes I wouldn't take a dog to. Cuba always used to harp on the fact that close to a 1/3 of Americans had no real health insurance, yet I haven't seen much criticism of their two-tiered system. Foreigners visiting Cuba go to certain beaches, stay at certain hotels and eat at certain restaurants where locals are not allowed to be (not that they could afford it anyway). Stores are also on a two-tiered system - the stores for foreigners and top government officials and the stores for the locals. You can guess which ones are better.

There is a great website with a lot of pictures that details everything pretty well. The part about "racism in Cuba" is especially interesting, but take the time to look at the hospitals, beaches and restaurants that the locals are restricted to, and what the foreigners visit while in Cuba. Here's the link:

www.therealcuba.com

.

trambone wrote:
Does anyone else see Cuba trying to make Cuban baseball into a Billion dollar industry? The Cuban baseball league may be on par with MLB, but the players do not make nearly as much money. Over the years many players have defected and have signed very lucrative contracts.

My question is would the cuban league sign these players over to MLB and have MLB teams pay huge posting fees to sign them and pocket most of the money?

Monroe wrote:
Obama in 2008-yet another 180 degree flip flop from his campaign promises.

?I will maintain the embargo. It provides us with the leverage to present the regime with a clear choice: if you take significant steps toward democracy, beginning with the freeing of all political prisoners, we will take steps to begin normalizing relations.

That?s the way to bring about real change in Cuba ? through strong, smart and principled diplomacy.?

JCMan8 wrote:
Boris, you need to understand that many liberals have looked up to Castro and Cuba for decades.

For example, NYC mayor DeBlasio, who is one of the biggest liberals around, illegally snuck into communist Cuba and spent his honeymoon there.

Because of this admiration for Castro and Cuba, liberals make excuses for them. I am not sure of the reason behind this though.

borisp wrote:
Quote:

JPHurst wrote:
Actually, I always saw the Cuban emigres as more analogous to the Arabs who fought Israel. There was a war, they lost, and for generations they insist on undoing something that wont be undone.

Well, the Arabs attacked Israel with an intent to exterminate all the Jews. They wanted that for a long time. In 1941 Mufti of Jerusalem negotiated with Hitler trying to get his help in extending the "final solution" to the Holy Land.
Cuban emigres on the other hand weren't aggressors at all. They defended what was theirs against the murderous communist aggression.
In order to see an analogy here one has to be either very antisemitic, or very ignorant.

Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
Not the same thing genius. If you had escaped the Nazis and had the ability to go back and fight then I hope you would. A large percentage of Cubans in Miami are whiners and do nothings. Their best effort was when they kidnapped Elian Gonzalez and kept him from his father.

Not true. They went back and tried to fight, but President Kennedy who promised them backing, betrayed them.

Quote:

Brewster wrote:
Boris, pre-castro Cuba was the poster child for the kind of corruption and income inequality that drove a number of other US supported nations into the the arms of the "Marxists".

Yes, and in the Nazi Germany Jews were made to be "poster children" for corruption and income inequality. I can even show the actual posters if you want to take a look. I'm not sure how fascist-communists propaganda can be of any use in our discussion.

Quote:

Brewster wrote:
Had the US not been so ardent at supporting dictators, AKA "our bastards", throughout the Americas in the name of Liberty, perhaps some of those nations would have been more open to US style democracy and capitalism.

Well, it's a standard slogan, but it does match the reality. I know of few countries that the US took under its wing when they were in a pretty bad shape, like South Korea, Germany, Japan and others. And I am pretty sure that nowadays they look fine democracy-wise. And I know countries like South Vietnam and Iraq where we did promise support but then decided they don't deserve same treatment as the countries from the first list. We withdrew and, well, what followed wasn't pretty.

Quote:

Brewster wrote:
This is NOT a defence of the Castro regime and it's human rights abuses.

Yes. It is.
You are trying to excuse the commie murderers by telling a story of corruption and US wrong behavior.

Quote:

Brewster wrote:
If we can normalize with China, Vietnam and the USSR, we can do it with Cuba.

Yes, and we could have normalized it with Hitler too.

It's not about ability, it's about decency. Do you not have any moral compass at all? Do you not see that it is immoral to befriend murderers and racists? Do you not understand that it's immoral to betray their victims?

When we dealt with the USSR and China at least we had a good excuse that we were trying to avoid a nuclear war! Why are you eager to "normalize" with the Cuban butchers?

JPHurst wrote:
Actually, I always saw the Cuban emigres as more analogous to the Arabs who fought Israel. There was a war, they lost, and for generations they insist on undoing something that wont be undone.

Vigilante wrote:
Not the same thing genius. If you had escaped the Nazis and had the ability to go back and fight then I hope you would. A large percentage of Cubans in Miami are whiners and do nothings. Their best effort was when they kidnapped Elian Gonzalez and kept him from his father.

Brewster wrote:
Boris, pre-castro Cuba was the poster child for the kind of corruption and income inequality that drove a number of other US supported nations into the the arms of the "Marxists".

Brewster wrote:
Had the US not been so ardent at supporting dictators, AKA "our bastards", throughout the Americas in the name of Liberty, perhaps some of those nations would have been more open to US style democracy and capitalism.

Brewster wrote:
This is NOT a defence of the Castro regime and it's human rights abuses.

Brewster wrote:
If we can normalize with China, Vietnam and the USSR, we can do it with Cuba.

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
I think the likely explanation was that this lie, along with 'if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor' were designed to trick people into voting for him that would not have if he spoke the truth of his position. Retirees AND south Florida, ya 'know.

That explanation applies to literally every politician (remember Christie's open letter to the firefighters' and teachers' unions where he swore he would not diminish their pensions in any way?). So while it is true, it is not saying much.

Monroe wrote:
I think the likely explanation was that this lie, along with 'if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor' were designed to trick people into voting for him that would not have if he spoke the truth of his position. Retirees AND south Florida, ya 'know.

Monroe wrote:
Ask Obama why he caved, not me. I'm just pointing out it's another example of 'how do you tell when Obama is lying? His lips are moving'.

Quote:

hero69 wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Obama in 2008-yet another 180 degree flip flop from his campaign promises.

?I will maintain the embargo. It provides us with the leverage to present the regime with a clear choice: if you take significant steps toward democracy, beginning with the freeing of all political prisoners, we will take steps to begin normalizing relations.

That?s the way to bring about real change in Cuba ? through strong, smart and principled diplomacy.?

bullshit. why the double standard with cuba when the us has decent relations with china, saudi arabia, egypt, jordan, algeria and the us supported every single latin american dictatorship as well as pro-american dictatorships in africa, asia and europe!

hero69 wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Obama in 2008-yet another 180 degree flip flop from his campaign promises.

?I will maintain the embargo. It provides us with the leverage to present the regime with a clear choice: if you take significant steps toward democracy, beginning with the freeing of all political prisoners, we will take steps to begin normalizing relations.

That?s the way to bring about real change in Cuba ? through strong, smart and principled diplomacy.?

bullshit. why the double standard with cuba when the us has decent relations with china, saudi arabia, egypt, jordan, algeria and the us supported every single latin american dictatorship as well as pro-american dictatorships in africa, asia and europe!

Monroe wrote:
Obama in 2008-yet another 180 degree flip flop from his campaign promises.

?I will maintain the embargo. It provides us with the leverage to present the regime with a clear choice: if you take significant steps toward democracy, beginning with the freeing of all political prisoners, we will take steps to begin normalizing relations.

That?s the way to bring about real change in Cuba ? through strong, smart and principled diplomacy.?