dtjcview wrote:
Median stacks the low end. The AVERAGE JC teacher salary 2012-3 was $75.7k - see http://www.njspotlight.com/stories/13/11/14/school-salaries/

The starting salary in JC for 2012-3 was $51,078. I rounded up to $52k for 2014-5. Let me post the top line from the PDF: $50,000 or Higher Starting Salaries.

Not average. Not median. But STARTING.

http://www.njea.org/njea-media/pdf/50Kminimum.pdf?1412242710439

How do I feel about a $52k starting salary? It's way too low to attract the best. Needs to be $70-80k to be competitive. But that should come with the same kind of conditions that the private sector applies (401k, healthcare, performance reviews, etc).

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

linky wrote:
"The people who say poverty is no excuse for low performance are now using teacher accountability as an excuse for doing nothing about poverty". David Berliner's (former academic dean of education at Arizona State) comment regarding the passage of No Child Left Behind. I'm a teacher, and I've worked for in the JC public schools. Excellent article which sheds light on the situation. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/07/21/wrong-answer

Wow. Talk about cherry picking an article. That's all you got from that article?? The essence of the article, for those who will not bother reading the lengthy text, is that corruption in Atlanta reached the highest levels. Teachers chose to cheat by changing test scores, for many different reasons. But, test cheating by teachers is a form of CORRUPTION.

Pebble wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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Somehow this seems to be a shift in discussion. Now you are talking about entry-level jobs? That?s not what the website states. It states that it is a summation of available jobs on the market that their search engines can pick up. It does not cover jobs without a salary description. Additionally, you chose to compare these values to what an average teacher makes, which is most definitely not entry-level.

The STARTING SALARY of $52k for JC teachers was posted on the NJEA website that I linked. Take it up with them.

You are incorrect. That is not that starting salary. That is the median salary across the board when you account for every public school teacher in Jersey City. (http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... achers_median_salary.html)

Given that the starting salary is about $50, how do feel about those raises?

If they had your ability for comprehension and math, I'd fire every last one of them.

I posted the link. Where am I wrong?

dtjcview wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
...
Somehow this seems to be a shift in discussion. Now you are talking about entry-level jobs? That?s not what the website states. It states that it is a summation of available jobs on the market that their search engines can pick up. It does not cover jobs without a salary description. Additionally, you chose to compare these values to what an average teacher makes, which is most definitely not entry-level.

The STARTING SALARY of $52k for JC teachers was posted on the NJEA website that I linked. Take it up with them.

You are incorrect. That is not that starting salary. That is the median salary across the board when you account for every public school teacher in Jersey City. (http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... achers_median_salary.html)

Given that the starting salary is about $50, how do feel about those raises?

If they had your ability for comprehension and math, I'd fire every last one of them.

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
...
Somehow this seems to be a shift in discussion. Now you are talking about entry-level jobs? That?s not what the website states. It states that it is a summation of available jobs on the market that their search engines can pick up. It does not cover jobs without a salary description. Additionally, you chose to compare these values to what an average teacher makes, which is most definitely not entry-level.

The STARTING SALARY of $52k for JC teachers was posted on the NJEA website that I linked. Take it up with them.

You are incorrect. That is not that starting salary. That is the median salary across the board when you account for every public school teacher in Jersey City. (http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... achers_median_salary.html)

Given that the starting salary is about $50, how do feel about those raises?

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

linky wrote:
"The people who say poverty is no excuse for low performance are now using teacher accountability as an excuse for doing nothing about poverty". David Berliner's (former academic dean of education at Arizona State) comment regarding the passage of No Child Left Behind. I'm a teacher, and I've worked for in the JC public schools. Excellent article which sheds light on the situation. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/07/21/wrong-answer

Wow. Talk about cherry picking an article. That's all you got from that article?? The essence of the article, for those who will not bother reading the lengthy text, is that corruption in Atlanta reached the highest levels. Teachers chose to cheat by changing test scores, for many different reasons. But, test cheating by teachers is a form of CORRUPTION.

bill wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Did you notice that our neighbors to the North have MORE children living in poverty, and yet manage to graduate many more of them?

Jersey City: 30.2% in poverty, 67.5% graduation rate
West New York: 34.5% in poverty, 78.4% graduation rate
Union City: 36.5% in poverty, 79.2% graduation rate

The problem with facts is that they can't be easily dismissed... Face it. We have a corruption and/or mismanagement issue in JC.

I think if you include racial makeup of those in poverty you will get a better picture of what we are dealing with. Both UC and WNY have similar demographics, but JC's is different.

The impact teachers have on students is overrated (I myself went to a greatschools.org rated high school of only 5, yet went to an Ivy). However I had a mother and a father that I lived with and help/pushed me with my studies.

linky wrote:
"The people who say poverty is no excuse for low performance are now using teacher accountability as an excuse for doing nothing about poverty". David Berliner's (former academic dean of education at Arizona State) comment regarding the passage of No Child Left Behind. I'm a teacher, and I've worked for in the JC public schools. Excellent article which sheds light on the situation. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/07/21/wrong-answer

dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
...
Somehow this seems to be a shift in discussion. Now you are talking about entry-level jobs? That?s not what the website states. It states that it is a summation of available jobs on the market that their search engines can pick up. It does not cover jobs without a salary description. Additionally, you chose to compare these values to what an average teacher makes, which is most definitely not entry-level.

The STARTING SALARY of $52k for JC teachers was posted on the NJEA website that I linked. Take it up with them.

bodhipooh wrote:
Did you notice that our neighbors to the North have MORE children living in poverty, and yet manage to graduate many more of them?

Jersey City: 30.2% in poverty, 67.5% graduation rate
West New York: 34.5% in poverty, 78.4% graduation rate
Union City: 36.5% in poverty, 79.2% graduation rate

The problem with facts is that they can't be easily dismissed... Face it. We have a corruption and/or mismanagement issue in JC.

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
This video shows some of the challenges associated with teaching in a diverse school district such as JC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fonSqHNoWkQ

You must know this is a spoof, right? It was hilarious, though.

ianmac47 wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
Philly teachers in meltdown over having to contribute 5-13% of the cost of their healthcare premiums.

http://www.philly.com/philly/educatio ... and_sets_off_a__war_.html

This will definitely improve student performance.

JCMan8 wrote:
This video shows some of the challenges associated with teaching in a diverse school district such as JC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fonSqHNoWkQ

Monroe wrote:
Philly teachers in meltdown over having to contribute 5-13% of the cost of their healthcare premiums.

http://www.philly.com/philly/educatio ... and_sets_off_a__war_.html

Pebble wrote:
...
Somehow this seems to be a shift in discussion. Now you are talking about entry-level jobs? That?s not what the website states. It states that it is a summation of available jobs on the market that their search engines can pick up. It does not cover jobs without a salary description. Additionally, you chose to compare these values to what an average teacher makes, which is most definitely not entry-level.

Monroe wrote:
Pebble, if you've read my comments, I believe the overall large issue in JC is the parents and the kids, and not the teachers. And it's something that, sadly, is fully upon the family at home to address. No amount of tax money sent to JC will force parents to make sure their kids do their homework, or get to bed in order to get a good nights sleep.

Monroe wrote:
But, and it's a big but, there still are going to be teachers who mail it in, teachers who've just given up, teachers that lack the motivation to change the world they had when young, and teachers who lack the skills (and the desire to learn them) we need in 2014 and beyond.

Monroe wrote:
And until the perfect storm of Governor Christie and Senate President Sweeney came together to hold the NJEA's collective feet over the fire for common sense reforms, the NJEA just dug in and fought it. F o r d e c a d e s.

Monroe wrote:
And to Christie and Sweeney's credit, they decided that the perfect is the enemy of the good, and both compromised with the NJEA over reforms. Say what you want about Christie, but his willingness to do exactly that is what has made sensible, progressive reforms in areas like tenure and municipal tax caps. (Which Cuomo mirrored re:tax caps).

Monroe wrote:
Yes, my kids and I went through the best school system in NJ, with affluent, involved parents. We also pay the highest real estate taxes in the state to drive the excellent schools, because unlike JC, whose residents pay 16% of their school costs, Millburn pays 86%. (Note to ianmac, I own in Millburn/Short Hills and rent in JC).

Monroe wrote:
In short, NJ has many great teachers who deserve to be paid more-and inner city teachers perhaps should get 'combat pay' across the board for the merely fair, good, and excellent.

We also shouldn't have to carry teachers that have proven they lack the ability to teach effectively (given that they should have a chance to reform and improve when identified).

The method of evaluation is complex, but doable. The cost of not eliminating lousy teachers is immense for our kids.

dtjcview wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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So you don?t see any flaw in the logic or comparison?? One job search engine. One necessary factor, listing of salary. Is it possible that there are many entry level postings while there are few mid-tier postings?
...

It was an entry-level vs entry level comparison. So nope. If anything the Job Search returned a slightly higher salary result bias. Plus I happen to know what entry-level grads make in some of those professions in the industry I work in - and they're in the right ballpark.

The grads that step straight into a $150k/year job are the ivy-league direct intakes/ex-interns - and perhaps those don't get advertised. But none would work in JC.

brewster wrote:
Quote:

Binky wrote:
I did think that was covered in "The problem is the populations we are trying to serve."
Like I said, Everyone is right.
The challenge is deciding what we are going to do about it.

Add to that "population" column the children of immigrants who are not literate in their native language (as often are their parents), so expecting them to quickly become literate in our is unrealistic. Yet the ESL teachers are expected to take a teen with no english and have them pass the standardized tests. This is not a suburban problem.

jcdd wrote:

I would also gather that 100% of the comments on here complaining of the high cost of educating kids comes from older individuals that don't have children in this school system - and particularly those who, if they had children, those children have already received he benefit of a public or private education and are now grown. As I've said before, people are generally self interested.

Binky wrote:
I did think that was covered in "The problem is the populations we are trying to serve."
Like I said, Everyone is right.
The challenge is deciding what we are going to do about it.

Binky wrote:
I was watching this documentary on PBS the other night. I recommend it highly to anyone who wants to understand more deeply some of the challenges of educating kids in the inner cities.
The problem is money.
The problem is corruption.
The problem is teachers and what they are trained to do.
The problem is the populations we are trying to serve.
Everyone posting in this thread here is right about the problems that they see..
The challenge is deciding what we are going to do about it. I think that by now we should be able to recognize the cost of not doing it.

trambone wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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trambone wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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trambone wrote:
Did you also notice the poverty rate is also at 30%? Many of these children only eat at school. Have access to the internet at school. Access to other educational needs at school.

Did you notice that our neighbors to the North have MORE children living in poverty, and yet manage to graduate many more of them?

Jersey City: 30.2% in poverty, 67.5% graduation rate
West New York: 34.5% in poverty, 78.4% graduation rate
Union City: 36.5% in poverty, 79.2% graduation rate

The problem with facts is that they can't be easily dismissed... Face it. We have a corruption and/or mismanagement issue in JC.

Let me ask this question. Why are they dropping out? Are they flunking out at 21? Are they leaving to pursue other options?(Some of which do not always require a HS diploma or they would rather just get a GED)

Also on the other hand how do we not know other poorer districts are just pushing students through? Other more affluent districts have been known to make their "advanced" students have better grades then they have earned so they can apply for top universities to bring accolades to that district. Many of these numbers that are provided have no real context.

As someone else already stated, you are now changing goal posts. First, you questioned the graduation rate stat. Once evidence of it is quoted, you throw out poverty as the reason. When poorer towns with much better graduation rates are highlighted, you change the reasoning to kids dropping out voluntarily and questioning all of the stats.

Why not simply admit (and, then, try to address) the issue of corruption and mismanagement?? There is just NO WAY that we have to spend SO MUCH money per pupil. JC now spends the equivalent of college tuition per student. We should stop the madness. Especially before things change (and, I have no doubt they will at some point) and the courts get rid of Abbott or heavily rework it.

Its football season, but i'll change the sports analogy to baseball. You always have to question the meaning behind the stats. What do the numbers mean and how do you come up with them and then how should value them. If a player in baseball has a ton of RBIs is he really a good player or just getting lucky because men get on before him? You just want to assume there are just tons of bad teachers.

a few reasons why a student may drop out.

1. They turned 18 and are forced out of the house.
2. Teen Pregnancy. Not completely an education issue.
3. They want to pursue other interests and a high school diploma may not be completely necessary.
4. Influence of outside gangs.

Education is funny because everyone comments on it, but have no experience with it.

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

trambone wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

trambone wrote:
Did you also notice the poverty rate is also at 30%? Many of these children only eat at school. Have access to the internet at school. Access to other educational needs at school.

Did you notice that our neighbors to the North have MORE children living in poverty, and yet manage to graduate many more of them?

Jersey City: 30.2% in poverty, 67.5% graduation rate
West New York: 34.5% in poverty, 78.4% graduation rate
Union City: 36.5% in poverty, 79.2% graduation rate

The problem with facts is that they can't be easily dismissed... Face it. We have a corruption and/or mismanagement issue in JC.

Let me ask this question. Why are they dropping out? Are they flunking out at 21? Are they leaving to pursue other options?(Some of which do not always require a HS diploma or they would rather just get a GED)

Also on the other hand how do we not know other poorer districts are just pushing students through? Other more affluent districts have been known to make their "advanced" students have better grades then they have earned so they can apply for top universities to bring accolades to that district. Many of these numbers that are provided have no real context.

As someone else already stated, you are now changing goal posts. First, you questioned the graduation rate stat. Once evidence of it is quoted, you throw out poverty as the reason. When poorer towns with much better graduation rates are highlighted, you change the reasoning to kids dropping out voluntarily and questioning all of the stats.

Why not simply admit (and, then, try to address) the issue of corruption and mismanagement?? There is just NO WAY that we have to spend SO MUCH money per pupil. JC now spends the equivalent of college tuition per student. We should stop the madness. Especially before things change (and, I have no doubt they will at some point) and the courts get rid of Abbott or heavily rework it.