JERSEY CITY LIST - Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City [NOT Jersey City]

Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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greenville wrote:
I dont support vices but if you want to revive Atlantic City, you have to do something different. Legalise prostitution and weed only in Atlantic City and watch it turnaround in a month, lol!

Now there's an idea. Unfortunately, while the Atlantic City area is mostly liberal, there are too many holier than thou Republicans representing in the surrounding counties in the Assembly and Senate who probably wouldn't allow it to happen.

Posted on: 2014/9/1 2:16

Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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Quote:

greenville wrote:
I dont support vices but if you want to revive Atlantic City, you have to do something different. Legalise prostitution and weed only in Atlantic City and watch it turnaround in a month, lol!

how bout everywhere else, too?

Posted on: 2014/9/1 1:34

greenville

Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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I dont support vices but if you want to revive Atlantic City, you have to do something different. Legalise prostitution and weed only in Atlantic City and watch it turnaround in a month, lol!

Posted on: 2014/9/1 1:05

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Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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Christie did as best a job he could trying to revive Atlantic City, same as any other New Jersey governor. Atlantic City's beach has improved and the place is great to go to three months out of the year. Otherwise, no matter how much effort anyone puts into that place, nothing will change.
You just can't polish a turd. End of story.

The place needs to be totally reinvented and not as a tourist destination. Perhaps as a retirement village. Maybe as a factory town. I don't have any clear answer. 36 years having gone by, most of the town looking as shitty as it ever did, unemployment barely changing (most jobs at the casinos are held by suburbanites), population continuing to decline and the rampant social ills that persist, should tell someone that the current formula just isn't working.

Posted on: 2014/8/31 17:43

JCMan8

Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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It would be foolish to try and pin this on Christie, but the bottom line is Atlantic City is going down the tubes FAST.

Atlantic City facing unprecedented economic collapse

The Atlantic City region is on the brink of a short-term economic disaster.

Atlantic City made history 36 years ago when it opened the first legal casinos in the United States outside Las Vegas.

Now it's doing so again as casino employment - which for years exceeded the number of city residents - drops precipitously after a decade of steady decline.

The closing of three casinos, starting with Showboat and Revel this weekend followed by Trump Plaza two weeks later, and the rapid-fire loss of 5,700 jobs, draw historic comparisons to longer-term collapses of U.S. industries such as steel.

"This is a massive economic body blow to Atlantic City on par with the hit to the national economy during the Great Recession," said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Analytics in West Chester.

Beyond the thousands of job losses, which will spread into related industries and the general economy, Atlantic City will soon be left with four empty buildings (including the shuttered Atlantic Club) that have no clear future.

"What we've got in Atlantic City is unprecedented. It hasn't happened before in this type of context, where they are going to shutter them up and literally can't give them away for pennies on the dollar, like Revel," said Alan Silver, a former casino-industry executive who teaches at Ohio University in Athens, Ohio.

Silver and other casino-industry experts said there was little precedent for reusing casinos for anything other than hotels.

David G. Schwartz, director of the Center for Gaming Research at the University of Nevada in Las Vegas, could point to only one former casino in the United States - the Golden Phoenix in Reno - which was turned into condominiums.

In addition to condominiums and time-shares, experts are quick to mention boutique hotels, which have become increasingly popular in Las Vegas and other cities.

"It's nice to do all these things, but you've got to have supply and demand and you've got to have the various attractions there to get people to come to Atlantic City," Silver said.

Atlantic City Mayor Don Guardian, who has adopted a salesman-in-chief attitude since taking office in January, spoke optimistically last week of openings expected next year, including a Bass Pro Shops location and Harrah's Conference Center, that could create 1,300 jobs in the city.

Guardian expressed confidence Friday that Revel would be resurrected as a casino under a new name, projecting that it would sell for $25 million to $50 million. That would also reduce the job losses.

"At $50 million, it's certainly a bargain-basement price for a brand-new facility. It's finding the right buyer, meaning having the financial wherewithal, and then that buyer finding the right brand to come in and run it," he said.

Fitch Ratings estimated Friday that $280 million of the $457 million gamblers lost during the last 12 months at the casinos that are closing would be captured by the survivors. That will help boost profits, and perhaps add some jobs at those properties.

Caesars Entertainment Inc. said more than 470 of the 2,068 Showboat workers had found jobs at other Caesars operations, mostly in Atlantic City. That announcement Friday reduced anticipated losses from 6,100.

Those transfers will soften the blow, but Atlantic City - which lost 1,600 jobs when the Atlantic Club closed in January - still must brace for historic job losses.

"This concentration both in terms of number . . . and almost within a single month probably, is unprecedented" in New Jersey, said James W. Hughes, dean of the Edward J. Bloustein School of Planning and Public Policy at Rutgers University in New Brunswick.

Hughes, coauthor of one of the earliest studies of New Jersey's public policy gamble on casinos, said downsizing in the steel and auto industries was typically gradual, reducing shifts, closing units.

In Bethlehem, Pa., for example, jobs at Bethlehem Steel Corp., whose operations once stretched five miles along the Lehigh River, dribbled away from a peak of more than 30,000 during World War II. There were 13 when the plant closed for good in 1998, the Allentown Morning Call reported at the time.

"Here, it's like falling off a cliff," Hughes said of the situation in Atlantic City.

In the 1990s, employment in Atlantic City casinos hovered around 45,000 most years, though it peaked at more than 49,000 in 1997. During that period, the city had about 38,800 year-round residents, according to census data.

The casino jobs that will be lost in the next two weeks will bring the total down to around 26,000. The losses represent more than 4 percent of Atlantic County's labor force of 131,800.

Zandi said the loss in the Atlantic City region would rise in the next year as consumer and government spending falls, possibly matching the 6 percent job loss nationally from the start of 2008 through mid-2009.

"Atlantic City has admirably weathered many economic storms - unfortunately, another big one is coming," Zandi said.

http://www.philly.com/philly/business ... ed_economic_collapse.html

Posted on: 2014/8/31 17:24

hero69

Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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wow. now trump casino is closing. it's a shame our elected nj leaders are so short-sighted, non-imaginative

Posted on: 2014/7/12 23:27

JCMan8

Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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hero69 wrote:
well, ny already has topless beaches as does sandy hook - au natural

NJ's sandy hook beach's motto is "get nude or get lost."

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013 ... nly_legal_nude_beach.html

Posted on: 2014/6/28 1:41

hero69

Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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well, ny already has topless beaches as does sandy hook - au natural

Posted on: 2014/6/27 23:51

Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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@Pebble - you have a point about AC not being anywhere near as well marketed as LV. Part of that may be down to a constant struggle in NJ with conflicting visions - "family-friendly" vs "seedy/sinful". You are right about same-day weddings - if NJ allowed them, there'd be a booming wedding business on AC beaches. If NJ allowed topless sunbathing, the entire Jersey shore might develop a "chic" status overnight, instead of it's current bratty image. And those kinds of changes would cost nothing.

Posted on: 2014/6/27 21:23

Pebble

Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
I can't blame Christie for Revel not doing well. It's a great place that targets a specific audience that doesn't use Atlantic City. It's a shame because AC can be everything that Vegas is...

How can AC be everything that Vegas is? What would you do to get there?

Me?? Gut the city itself. You need to remove the residences that are in proximity. You need to drive the boardwalk to be like the strip. You need to promote more of a party atmosphere. You need to allow entertainment options.

I?ve been to Vegas and there is no reason on earth that a bunch of buildings in the middle of a hot dessert should be drawing more people than a location on the beach.

I?m not in marketing or brand development. I?m certain that the best marketers could do a better job.

So if it was as simple as you have made it out to be, how come the best marketers haven't executed this plan yet?

Where did I say it was simple? Where did I say the best marketers have even tried? As far as I can see, AC is doing an awful job advertising. The DO AC campaign is pretty sad.

Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

caj11 wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
I can't blame Christie for Revel not doing well. It's a great place that targets a specific audience that doesn't use Atlantic City. It's a shame because AC can be everything that Vegas is...

How can AC be everything that Vegas is? What would you do to get there?

Me?? Gut the city itself. You need to remove the residences that are in proximity. You need to drive the boardwalk to be like the strip. You need to promote more of a party atmosphere. You need to allow entertainment options.

I?ve been to Vegas and there is no reason on earth that a bunch of buildings in the middle of a hot desert should be drawing more people than a location on the beach.

I?m not in marketing or brand development. I?m certain that the best marketers could do a better job.

Atlantic City so desperately needs to re-invent itself the way Vegas did, if that is possible, which it may not be.

Vegas knew that it couldn't always depend on gaming revenue and made itself more of a destination to attract non-gamblers as well, and a lot more convention business. Case in point, I've been to Vegas several times, stayed at least three days or more each time, hardly gambled while I was there but found plenty to do and enjoyed myself. The convention business also fills up the rooms.

The problem Atlantic City has is that it is on an island that was already fully developed when gambling was legalized, has a far smaller airport than Vegas and is effectively cut off from the rest of the state by being at the end of a long expressway. It always takes longer than I thought it would to get there, and just isn't convenient for hosting large conventions on the scale that Vegas does, particularly when you have the large city of Philadelphia nearby. Vegas could build out into the desert forever and keep offering new amenities to visitors whereas Atlantic City doesn't have a lot of space for expansion.

A.C. did prosper for a few years at one point, but once the surrounding areas opened casinos, that was the end for them. Vegas was able to deal with all the new competition from other parts of the country by offering a lot more non-gambling attractions. A.C. has ~~nothing~~ hardly anything else to offer and not much space to build anything new to offer. Well, the pool at Harrahs is nice, but you just can't polish a turd.

If all that wasn't enough, Vegas itself is suffering from a huge drop off in business and the older casino hotels are dropping like flies. If Vegas is having a bad time and is so heavily dependent on gaming, tourists and conventions, that can't bode well for Atlantic City.

But I do have one suggestion here that might encourage more people to visit and spend more time there - coupon books. Las Vegas has them everywhere, people want to be fooled into thinking they're getting a good discount on something, and it works very well. The same could be done in Atlantic City.

That is the issue, isn't it? In terms of location, beach over desert any day of the week. It's not even a question. Yet, Vegas, which is pretty much accessible only by plane, has become a destination while AC falls apart.

A lot of this has to do with the mismanagement of those managing the casinos which would go for the quick/easy cash grab instead of building something meaningful over time.

I'm not sure it is possible for AC to reinvent itself as a destination, but they need to make the effort. A rail line would be a nice start.

Why do they need to make the effort?

I?m not sure a worse question could be asked. Are you seriously saying that AC doesn?t need to reinvent itself?

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

hero69 wrote:
i agree with beach over desert any day of the week! perhaps ac is a philly suburb but if nj had invested in the infrastructure which would likely create more demand which might lead to better amenities and more affluent residents and higher spending tourists, then perhaps the philly-area casinos would not stand a chance

'Invest in infrastructure'? NJ Transit had a special train to AC, but discontinued it after three years due to lack of ridership-NY Penn, Newark Penn, then direct to AC. It ran at a considerable loss, though subsidized by the state and a consortium of the casinos, from 2009 to 2012.

There are a dozen trains daily from 30th Street Station in Philly to AC.

AC has their own international airport.

AC is Ocean Avenue with a bunch of large hotels nearby, minus the White House sub shop.

They ran trains, once. However they were priced at an exceptionally high rate and I don?t recall them stopping in NJ at all.

Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Las Vegas has so many advantages over AC it's a bit of an unfair comparison.

Sorry, I?m about to cut up your post but?

Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Probably LV's biggest advantage is location. Hollywood has given the City iconic status, along with the nearby movie-shoot locations that include the Grand Canyon, Hoover Dam, Monument Valley, Mohave desert, Zion Park, Route 66, the Rockies to name a few.
It?s location is in the desert, which is not all that great. However, you are right on Hollywood. Guess how that happened?

You mention the Grand Canyon, Hoover Dam, etc? I?ll mention shorter distances to Philadelphia and NYC. AC could capitalize on packages that enable day trips out to Philly or New York. It doesn?t. And I?m sorry, but all of those great natural sites don?t compare to the manmade ones we have.

[quote]
dtjcview wrote:
It is probably the road trip center of the world.

It certainly is. That?s due to the locations ability to market itself as one.

Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Add to that it's virtually unlimited room to expand, low-cost real estate, cheap hotel rooms and flights, theme parks, retail, world-class restaurants and shows, Elvis-themed wedding chapels for "quickies",

This is certainly one issue. I don?t care about the low-cost real estate. That doesn?t draw tourists. The rest are all things that are certainly possible to do in AC. They sort of try but fall a little short in their efforts due to a lack of long-term vision.

The last item regarding weddings is because we have a doofus for governor. Even in the Florida Keys you can get married on the same day.

Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
internationally recognizable branding like "Sin City", "What happens in Vegas", "Welcome to Las Vegas" sign and the Strip. LV's success is core to Nevada's success, and years of lax state regulation, toleration of vices and historical ties to the mob have helped hugely.

Exactly! This is marketing at its finest along with a state that heavily backs it. We?ve not really had that with AC. It has sort of just been a minor push here and there and then a hands off model where things just go wrong.

Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
AC has what? A boardwalk and Nucky Thompson? Casinos in themselves are incidental to the two cities comparative fortunes. And to be fair to Christie, the only thing he could probably do to reverse NJ casino fortunes, is to build them somewhere else like the Meadowlands and leverage the nearby attractions of NYC. Xanadu was probably right idea, wrong execution.

AC has better options available to it. It has the ability to offer all of the same type of choices while also offer a freaking beach during the summer!

If AC was able to market itself as a second sin city, it could have parties and nightclubs out on the beach which could be vastly greater than any nightclub AC has to offer.

Posted on: 2014/6/27 17:54

Dos A Cero

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Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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dtjcview wrote:
An interesting list of top 25 tourist destinations. LV is #2, AC is #25. I'm surprised AC even makes the list, and that Disney World isn't #3.

http://www.thetravelerszone.com/trave ... -destinations-in-america/

What a strange list... the Delaware water gap is a bigger international attraction than the Grand Canyon?? I don't think so...

Posted on: 2014/6/23 14:55

Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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hero69 wrote:
someone should challenge the topless ban. if a man can go topless, why can't a woman! bruce willis' daughter walked d topless in ny and there was no damage.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ ... ew-York-City-topless.html

Here's a better link for that (NSFW):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05 ... is-topless_n_5405769.html

Why am I never around when a gorgeous woman decides to do this? The only topless/nude women I ever see in public are ones nobody would want to see nude.

Posted on: 2014/6/23 11:56

hero69

Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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someone should challenge the topless ban. if a man can go topless, why can't a woman! bruce willis' daughter walked d topless in ny and there was no damage.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ ... ew-York-City-topless.html

Posted on: 2014/6/23 10:34

Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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Vigilante wrote:
F**k the casinos and the "high rollers". Bulldoze the casinos and turn it into a family friendly beach resort. Vegas is a shit-show and should not be emulated here.

NJ should allow topless sunbathing on every NJ beach, for a $1/day donation badge to breast/skin cancer charities.

That would be a win for tourism, a win for charities, a win for the guys that would probably give every woman on the beach a free badge, and would likely turn NJ beaches overnight into the worlds biggest cancer awareness program. And the prudes could tell their kids that topless women were raising money for a good cause...win-win every way you look at it.

...and it would cost the state nothing. Heck, NJ could probably get enough guys volunteering to bulldoze the AC casinos for free.

Posted on: 2014/6/23 10:05

Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
...

Not what I said at all. Straw man argument.

Not what you said, but equally absurd. Forbes tourist numbers somehow are manipulated by their ad revenue? If Forbes were that easily manipulated, someone like Trump would probably top every Forbes list.

Never said that, either.

Of course not. That would have been pretty stupid. What you posted was much more insightful.

"Here is the list of top 25 most visited tourist destinations in America (according to Forbes)"

http://www.thetravelerszone.com/trave ... -destinations-in-america/

"These lists are basically paid ads by the locations. I wouldn't put too much stock in them."

Posted on: 2014/6/23 0:37

Vigilante

Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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F**k the casinos and the "high rollers". Bulldoze the casinos and turn it into a family friendly beach resort. Vegas is a shit-show and should not be emulated here.

Posted on: 2014/6/23 0:32

Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
...

Not what I said at all. Straw man argument.

Not what you said, but equally absurd. Forbes tourist numbers somehow are manipulated by their ad revenue? If Forbes were that easily manipulated, someone like Trump would probably top every Forbes list.

Never said that, either.

Posted on: 2014/6/23 0:26

Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
...

Not what I said at all. Straw man argument.

Not what you said, but equally absurd. Forbes tourist numbers somehow are manipulated by their ad revenue? If Forbes were that easily manipulated, someone like Trump would probably top every Forbes list.

Posted on: 2014/6/23 0:10

Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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dtjcview wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
An interesting list of top 25 tourist destinations. LV is #2, AC is #25. I'm surprised AC even makes the list, and that Disney World isn't #3.

http://www.thetravelerszone.com/trave ... -destinations-in-america/

These lists are basically paid ads by the locations. I wouldn't put too much stock in them.

Ask anyone that hasn't traveled much within the US to list the top places they'd love to see, and it would be pretty close to this list. Just surprised that places like New Orleans/ Mississippi, San Francisco, the Rockies/Denver, and the Liberty Bell/PA didn't rank ahead of AC.

Sure, but that's just anecdotal, anyway.

So AC could boost it's yearly tourists from 4m to 40m by placing more ads in Forbes? Genius!

Not what I said at all. Straw man argument.

Posted on: 2014/6/22 23:55

Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
An interesting list of top 25 tourist destinations. LV is #2, AC is #25. I'm surprised AC even makes the list, and that Disney World isn't #3.

http://www.thetravelerszone.com/trave ... -destinations-in-america/

These lists are basically paid ads by the locations. I wouldn't put too much stock in them.

Ask anyone that hasn't traveled much within the US to list the top places they'd love to see, and it would be pretty close to this list. Just surprised that places like New Orleans/ Mississippi, San Francisco, the Rockies/Denver, and the Liberty Bell/PA didn't rank ahead of AC.

Sure, but that's just anecdotal, anyway.

So AC could boost it's yearly tourists from 4m to 40m by placing more ads in Forbes? Genius!

Posted on: 2014/6/22 23:05

Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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Now's a good time for a little musical interlude, the chorus of the Bruce Springsteen song "Atlantic City":

Everything dies baby that's a fact
But maybe everything that dies someday comes back
Put your makeup on fix your hair up pretty and meet me tonight in Atlantic City

Or, if you feel like hearing the whole song and watching the entire video, which I think was very well done, showing alternate scenes between the massive new casino hotels (new in 1982, that is, when the song was written) bringing in tons of new visitors, and the slum areas where the locals are still milling around, still looking rather destitute, like nothing has changed, here's the video on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3eu1gW-bQ8

A beautiful song, and a very well done video, and I can't even say I'm much of a Springsteen fan.

Posted on: 2014/6/22 22:42

Monroe

Re: christie has done a great job reviving Atlantic City

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hero69 wrote:
somehow nyc and nys manage to invest in their infrastructure and thrive. which begs the question - ny is doing so much better than nj so why isn't running around trying to be a potus contender

Really? Ever drive in NYC? The roads are falling apart. The NYC bridges and tunnels (non Port Authority) are horrible. How's the East Side subway going? Is it done yet, it's only been 50 years or more. The water aqueducts are a million years old.

And you can't compare the financial situation with NY, they have a huge engine driven and financed by Wall Street. Is it Christie's fault Wall Street isn't in NJ, lol?

Posted on: 2014/6/22 21:03