JERSEY CITY LIST - Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National? [Politics & Government]

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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Pebble wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
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FGJCNJ1970 wrote:
I did a quick google search. Per this article, they got a 5 year tax abatement.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/voices/index ... _on_green_and_in_ele.html

There are also a couple of articles of what they were planning to build before the housing market collapsed.

http://www.hudsonreporter.com/view/fu ... July-4-on-remediated-land

All I can say is, if they plan on building a casino, there better NOT be any tax abatements doled out. Also, there better be some sort of revenue sharing program that goes directly for property tax relief for the rest of us and other community reinvestment.

First off, JC gets a tax relief check of a half a BILLION dollars a year from other NJ taxpayers to run JC schools. Consider yourself lucky.

Second, for the 160 acres they use, they don't have people living on that land-sending kids to schools, needing fire protection for houses on that land, policing the non-people who live there, etc.

Do you ever say to yourself, ?is it possible to sound more like a broken record?? I think if you are going to continue going to the well regarding JC getting tax money, you should at least liven it up a little. It?s just so freaking boring now.

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
The state does pay the lionshare of school costs, but since 2005, taxpayers have seen an 40% increase in school taxes. At least in the suburbs everyone pays, close to one third is tax abated so those who pay is paying for those who do not pay.

You're in an interesting spot, Yvonne. You want the 'abated' to pay their fair share in JC, but don't mind that others are paying yours! :)

Just as we know what you are, we know what Yvonne is. She?s all about her own personal convenience and personal wealth in JC. You can add in some church stuff here as well. Nothing more and nothing less.

You, on the other hand, don?t understand that the second your property taxes drop to my level, you?ll have the Daniel Campbells of the world living next door. Try not to be so foolish and recognize that you get what you pay for.

With a third of JC students not graduating, despite getting half a billion dollars/year of suburban subsidies-we're not getting what we pay for, are we?

Posted on: 2014/7/15 13:22

Pebble

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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Crazy_Chester wrote:
My favorite part of this thread is the notion that a capital gain has already been taxed.

The fact that losses in the market can be written off is evidence that profits should be taxed.

Posted on: 2014/7/15 13:06

Dos A Cero

Pebble

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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Monroe wrote:
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FGJCNJ1970 wrote:
I did a quick google search. Per this article, they got a 5 year tax abatement.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/voices/index ... _on_green_and_in_ele.html

There are also a couple of articles of what they were planning to build before the housing market collapsed.

http://www.hudsonreporter.com/view/fu ... July-4-on-remediated-land

All I can say is, if they plan on building a casino, there better NOT be any tax abatements doled out. Also, there better be some sort of revenue sharing program that goes directly for property tax relief for the rest of us and other community reinvestment.

First off, JC gets a tax relief check of a half a BILLION dollars a year from other NJ taxpayers to run JC schools. Consider yourself lucky.

Second, for the 160 acres they use, they don't have people living on that land-sending kids to schools, needing fire protection for houses on that land, policing the non-people who live there, etc.

Do you ever say to yourself, ?is it possible to sound more like a broken record?? I think if you are going to continue going to the well regarding JC getting tax money, you should at least liven it up a little. It?s just so freaking boring now.

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
The state does pay the lionshare of school costs, but since 2005, taxpayers have seen an 40% increase in school taxes. At least in the suburbs everyone pays, close to one third is tax abated so those who pay is paying for those who do not pay.

You're in an interesting spot, Yvonne. You want the 'abated' to pay their fair share in JC, but don't mind that others are paying yours! :)

Just as we know what you are, we know what Yvonne is. She?s all about her own personal convenience and personal wealth in JC. You can add in some church stuff here as well. Nothing more and nothing less.

You, on the other hand, don?t understand that the second your property taxes drop to my level, you?ll have the Daniel Campbells of the world living next door. Try not to be so foolish and recognize that you get what you pay for.

Posted on: 2014/7/15 13:03

Dos A Cero

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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

#38

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My favorite part of this thread is the notion that a capital gain has already been taxed.

Posted on: 2014/7/15 13:03

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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dtjcview wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
Brewster, it seems you want to continue to receive the largesse of others. Millburn/Short Hills residents pay what is needed to run their town.

And they pay to support JC.

I'm entitled to an opinion on how JC spends my money. (What's the JC graduation rate??) 66 per cent?

Monroe - You miss the point of taxes buddy.

Why should I as a taxpayer in JC, care about the hellspawn, sperm-donor, wastes of time and space, kids in the public ed system in JC? I don't have kids. I personally pay a heck more in local, state and federal taxes that I can ever hope to get back...

But I realize a few things. The US is never going to dig itself out of the hole it's created without sorting out it's education system. And that doesn't mean the middle-to-upper class twits in Short Hills/Milburn funding it's own local schools and ignoring the 99.9% of kids elsewhere.

I'm a product of a free education system. I believe every single kid in the US deserves that same opportunity. And seriously dude, FUCK YOU if you believe differently.

Your premise is stupid. Millburn/Short Hills isn't ignoring other kids, we're paying for their education. JC gets a half billion a year. Newark, just shy of a billion. Who do you think is paying for that? Each and every year we pay it.

Posted on: 2014/7/15 11:51

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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JCMan8 wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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brewster wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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mfadam wrote:
Monroe - anyone ponying up 250-500K for Liberty's Inititation Fee I can guarantee you is NOT paying their fair share of taxes. The .01% have mastered the art of lowering their tax rates thru 15% capital gains taxes, breaks on carried interest, endless trust/estate tricks, mortgage interest deductions etc.

Mastered the art? You mean taking advantage of the IRS tax code that is put in place by the government bought by the .01%?

fixed it for you.

You can only be bought if you sell out.

Are you being serious? Easily the most naive sentiment I've seen all week.

You can only rise to the top of politics unless you have "sold out," unless you are independently wealthy. It takes an immense amount of money to get elected. Do you think those big time donors treat it like charity and don't expect anything in return?

How does this refute my post?

Posted on: 2014/7/15 11:42

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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brewster wrote:
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Quote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
[Mastered the art? You mean taking advantage of the IRS tax code that is put in place by the government bought by the .01%?

fixed it for you.

You can only be bought if you sell out.

We have no difference on that score. It's just that most Americans don't have the ante for that auction of our government. Buying congress is one of the best investments around, a few hundred thousand can often yield many millions in benefits.

Agreed. Too bad Congress won't stop selling themselves out.

Posted on: 2014/7/15 11:41

dtjcview

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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Monroe wrote:
Brewster, it seems you want to continue to receive the largesse of others. Millburn/Short Hills residents pay what is needed to run their town.

And they pay to support JC.

I'm entitled to an opinion on how JC spends my money. (What's the JC graduation rate??) 66 per cent?

Monroe - You miss the point of taxes buddy.

Why should I as a taxpayer in JC, care about the hellspawn, sperm-donor, wastes of time and space, kids in the public ed system in JC? I don't have kids. I personally pay a heck more in local, state and federal taxes that I can ever hope to get back...

But I realize a few things. The US is never going to dig itself out of the hole it's created without sorting out it's education system. And that doesn't mean the middle-to-upper class twits in Short Hills/Milburn funding it's own local schools and ignoring the 99.9% of kids elsewhere.

I'm a product of a free education system. I believe every single kid in the US deserves that same opportunity. And seriously dude, FUCK YOU if you believe differently.

Posted on: 2014/7/15 5:43

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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Brewster, it seems you want to continue to receive the largesse of others. Millburn/Short Hills residents pay what is needed to run their town.

And they pay to support JC.

I'm entitled to an opinion on how JC spends my money. (What's the JC graduation rate??) 66 per cent?

Posted on: 2014/7/15 4:00

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
2013 General Tax Rates (actual rates, not rates on assessments)

MILLBURN 1.836%
JERSEY CITY 2.406%
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/lpt/taxrate.shtml

Monroe, your constant tax whining is a pile of crap. JC pays a FAR higher tax rate than Millburn, 31% more. The rate is what matters, not the fact that you're paying more, that's because the average home is worth more than a million.

How can you justify how a person who lives on the gains of investments alone should pay no tax on it while a person who labors for their living pays? Capital gains should be taxed at the same rate as earned income. I can at least understand the argument that dividends have already been taxed as corporate income.

Nonsense. It's not the tax 'rate' that is the point. A community has a budget, and they apportion that budget to homeowners based on the value of their homes. If you look at it, JC residents pay about 100 million dollars toward their schools. JC is the second largest city in NJ. Millburn pays about 75 millions dollars for their schools, in a town with a population of about 20,000!

What a twisted way of looking at taxes. No wonder you can justify millionaires paying lower tax rates than their secretaries. And Millburn has gold plated schools while JC has a rundown system. Your answer presumably would be for JC to be on it's own, raise it's taxes to 6 or 8% and drive out anyone who can possibly sell their property at whatever price? Good plan.
Quote:

And capital gains are investments that have been already taxed as the earned income that created them.

Umm, what? So an heiress who lives off capital gains, whose fortune expands 20 or 100 fold due to her highly paid money manager's insider trading, should never, ever pay tax because the seed money was taxed? Are you kidding?

Posted on: 2014/7/15 3:47

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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brewster wrote:
2013 General Tax Rates (actual rates, not rates on assessments)

MILLBURN 1.836%
JERSEY CITY 2.406%
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/lpt/taxrate.shtml

Monroe, your constant tax whining is a pile of crap. JC pays a FAR higher tax rate than Millburn, 31% more. The rate is what matters, not the fact that you're paying more, that's because the average home is worth more than a million.

How can you justify how a person who lives on the gains of investments alone should pay no tax on it while a person who labors for their living pays? Capital gains should be taxed at the same rate as earned income. I can at least understand the argument that dividends have already been taxed as corporate income.

Nonsense. It's not the tax 'rate' that is the point. A community has a budget, and they apportion that budget to homeowners based on the value of their homes. If you look at it, JC residents pay about 100 million dollars toward their schools. JC is the second largest city in NJ. Millburn pays about 75 millions dollars for their schools, in a town with a population of about 20,000!

Enjoy your low taxes on the backs of others.

And capital gains are investments that have been already taxed as the earned income that created them.

But go ahead and ask JC homeowners if they want their mortgage deduction removed-I'll bet your neighbors will want to give you a black eye!

Posted on: 2014/7/15 3:19

JCMan8

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

mfadam wrote:
Monroe - anyone ponying up 250-500K for Liberty's Inititation Fee I can guarantee you is NOT paying their fair share of taxes. The .01% have mastered the art of lowering their tax rates thru 15% capital gains taxes, breaks on carried interest, endless trust/estate tricks, mortgage interest deductions etc.

Mastered the art? You mean taking advantage of the IRS tax code that is put in place by the government bought by the .01%?

fixed it for you.

You can only be bought if you sell out.

Are you being serious? Easily the most naive sentiment I've seen all week.

You can only rise to the top of politics unless you have "sold out," unless you are independently wealthy. It takes an immense amount of money to get elected. Do you think those big time donors treat it like charity and don't expect anything in return?

Posted on: 2014/7/15 3:14

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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Quote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
[Mastered the art? You mean taking advantage of the IRS tax code that is put in place by the government bought by the .01%?

fixed it for you.

You can only be bought if you sell out.

We have no difference on that score. It's just that most Americans don't have the ante for that auction of our government. Buying congress is one of the best investments around, a few hundred thousand can often yield many millions in benefits.

Posted on: 2014/7/15 3:14

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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2013 General Tax Rates (actual rates, not rates on assessments)

MILLBURN 1.836%
JERSEY CITY 2.406%
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/lpt/taxrate.shtml

Monroe, your constant tax whining is a pile of crap. JC pays a FAR higher tax rate than Millburn, 31% more. The rate is what matters, not the fact that you're paying more, that's because the average home is worth more than a million.

How can you justify how a person who lives on the gains of investments alone should pay no tax on it while a person who labors for their living pays? Capital gains should be taxed at the same rate as earned income. I can at least understand the argument that dividends have already been taxed as corporate income.

Posted on: 2014/7/15 3:07

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

mfadam wrote:
Monroe - anyone ponying up 250-500K for Liberty's Inititation Fee I can guarantee you is NOT paying their fair share of taxes. The .01% have mastered the art of lowering their tax rates thru 15% capital gains taxes, breaks on carried interest, endless trust/estate tricks, mortgage interest deductions etc.

Mastered the art? You mean taking advantage of the IRS tax code that is put in place by the government bought by the .01%?

fixed it for you.

You can only be bought if you sell out.

Posted on: 2014/7/15 2:49

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

mfadam wrote:
Monroe - anyone ponying up 250-500K for Liberty's Inititation Fee I can guarantee you is NOT paying their fair share of taxes. The .01% have mastered the art of lowering their tax rates thru 15% capital gains taxes, breaks on carried interest, endless trust/estate tricks, mortgage interest deductions etc.

Mastered the art? You mean taking advantage of the IRS tax code that is put in place by the government bought by the .01%?

fixed it for you.

Imagine what it will be after the .01%ers who have paid the Clintons 120 million dollars for speeches ask to be repaid if Mrs. Clinton gets elected!

(btw, how much did it cost to buy Obama?)

Posted on: 2014/7/15 2:32

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

mfadam wrote:
Monroe - anyone ponying up 250-500K for Liberty's Inititation Fee I can guarantee you is NOT paying their fair share of taxes. The .01% have mastered the art of lowering their tax rates thru 15% capital gains taxes, breaks on carried interest, endless trust/estate tricks, mortgage interest deductions etc.

Mastered the art? You mean taking advantage of the IRS tax code that is put in place by the government bought by the .01%?

fixed it for you.

Posted on: 2014/7/15 2:28

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

mfadam wrote:
Monroe - anyone ponying up 250-500K for Liberty's Inititation Fee I can guarantee you is NOT paying their fair share of taxes. The .01% have mastered the art of lowering their tax rates thru 15% capital gains taxes, breaks on carried interest, endless trust/estate tricks, mortgage interest deductions etc.

Mastered the art? You mean taking advantage of the IRS tax code that is put in place by the government?

Yes, Obama is in his second term, and we know how he controls the IRS. Much more time is spent on trying to silence conservative voices than reforming the tax laws. While real unemployment is out of control, Wall Street is hitting new highs under his watch-the left is very silent on that while talking about income inequality.

Posted on: 2014/7/15 1:55

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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mfadam wrote:
Monroe - anyone ponying up 250-500K for Liberty's Inititation Fee I can guarantee you is NOT paying their fair share of taxes. The .01% have mastered the art of lowering their tax rates thru 15% capital gains taxes, breaks on carried interest, endless trust/estate tricks, mortgage interest deductions etc.

Mastered the art? You mean taking advantage of the IRS tax code that is put in place by the government?

Posted on: 2014/7/15 1:48

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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Yvonne wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
The state does pay the lionshare of school costs, but since 2005, taxpayers have seen an 40% increase in school taxes. At least in the suburbs everyone pays, close to one third is tax abated so those who pay is paying for those who do not pay.

You're in an interesting spot, Yvonne. You want the 'abated' to pay their fair share in JC, but don't mind that others are paying yours! :)

I have no idea what you are saying. Let me repeat, the state pays the lionshare of taxes but taxes have increased 40% since 2005. Anyone who pays school taxes are paying for people who uses the system but don't pay; therefore, the average person who pays school taxes are paying a higher amount. By the way my, children went to Catholic schools so the state and local taxpayers did not pay for my children.

A 40% increase is large percentage wise, but given that other NJ taxpayers pay 3/4 of the cost of JC schools currently, in real terms it's probably pretty small-JC taxpayers pay only 16% of the cost of running JC schools, other NJ residents and the Federal taxpayers (for the 53% that pay Federal taxes, that is) pay the rest.

http://www.state.nj.us/cgi-bin/educat ... dist_code2390&maxhits=650

Posted on: 2014/7/15 1:33

Yvonne

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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Monroe wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
The state does pay the lionshare of school costs, but since 2005, taxpayers have seen an 40% increase in school taxes. At least in the suburbs everyone pays, close to one third is tax abated so those who pay is paying for those who do not pay.

You're in an interesting spot, Yvonne. You want the 'abated' to pay their fair share in JC, but don't mind that others are paying yours! :)

I have no idea what you are saying. Let me repeat, the state pays the lionshare of taxes but taxes have increased 40% since 2005. Anyone who pays school taxes are paying for people who uses the system but don't pay; therefore, the average person who pays school taxes are paying a higher amount. By the way my, children went to Catholic schools so the state and local taxpayers did not pay for my children.

Posted on: 2014/7/15 1:22

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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mfadam wrote:
Monroe - anyone ponying up 250-500K for Liberty's Inititation Fee I can guarantee you is NOT paying their fair share of taxes. The .01% have mastered the art of lowering their tax rates thru 15% capital gains taxes, breaks on carried interest, endless trust/estate tricks, mortgage interest deductions etc.

Er, capital gains taxes are taxes on top of money that has already been earned and taxed-frankly, they should be zero. Carried interest/hedge fund income to managers should absolutely be taxed as income, I can't believe we haven't addressed that.

Mortgage interest deductions is the third rail of liberals, they want to tax everyone 'fairly' but mention taking that away from them and they screw themselves into the ground trying to defend it.

Posted on: 2014/7/15 1:19

dtjcview

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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Monroe wrote:
...

Real estate taxes are based on the cost of running the town, not an income tax related to the value of your house or your income.

Hence, the fact that JC gets a half billion dollar/year subsidy, year in and year out, covering 75% of the cost of running JC schools has a direct impact on M/SH getting 11% from NJ.

Property taxes are what they are, based on the way federal, state and local taxes have evolved over the years - not what you nor I wish them to be. Comparing Short Hills to JC, the relative tax-burden state-wide seems fair on a property-value basis - nobody believes property tax is simply a "use" tax in NJ.

The only way to change this as an individual seems to be to vote with your feet, and move to a state that distributes its tax burdens differently.

Posted on: 2014/7/15 1:16

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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Yvonne wrote:
The state does pay the lionshare of school costs, but since 2005, taxpayers have seen an 40% increase in school taxes. At least in the suburbs everyone pays, close to one third is tax abated so those who pay is paying for those who do not pay.

You're in an interesting spot, Yvonne. You want the 'abated' to pay their fair share in JC, but don't mind that others are paying yours! :)

Posted on: 2014/7/15 1:12

Yvonne

Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?

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The state does pay the lionshare of school costs, but since 2005, taxpayers have seen an 40% increase in school taxes. At least in the suburbs everyone pays, close to one third is tax abated so those who pay is paying for those who do not pay.

Posted on: 2014/7/15 1:08