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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
Right so I'm sure Whitman was up on her payment obligations.

And LOL the ARC project was shovel ready...who stopped that one again, and illegally moved the money elsewhere?


There you go again, you silly goose, using words like 'illegal'. I guess we'll have to wait and see if Governors Cuomo and Christie get indicted over this. After all, there probably only dozens of lawyers for the Port Authority and the bond issuers and the bond buyers who've done their due diligence over this-I guess they all missed the illegalities. Here's a good story, and be sure to read the linked piece inside that piece for even more information on the Port Authority and the WTC.

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... ulshine.html#incart_river

And if you want to spend some time and look up the total amount of unfunded pension payments by all the NJ Governors you'll not only find that the blue Govs vastly underfunded it more, but that Christie is the only Gov making a serious dent in it. And that he's the only one with the cojones to tell the taxpayers of NJ that it must be fixed, and that we'll all share the pain. Everyone else has just kicked the can down the road.

Posted on: 2014/7/18 20:13
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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Right so I'm sure Whitman was up on her payment obligations.

And LOL the ARC project was shovel ready...who stopped that one again, and illegally moved the money elsewhere?

Posted on: 2014/7/18 19:14
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
It's blue areas with their hands out? That's interesting, considering all the overpaid cops and teachers in red areas who pensions we all pay for, and the red Abbott districts of which there are plenty, and oh yeah, the poorest state in America is Mississippi- the reddest state in America that takes more federal money than anyone else.


Oh, I agree that our Democratic Senators have done a terrible job in bringing back Federal dollars-sadly, Obama's stimulus didn't go to shovel ready infrastructure (needed in NJ, no?) but to his union supporters. And this has been a long time problem. Menendez is more worried about his political donors in Florida than his own constituents.

As far as red vs blue in NJ, please go through this link and take a look at the Democratic controlled towns and the Republican controlled towns and compare the numbers re:Abbott support. JC and Newark alone are 1.5 billion dollars each year. Phillipsburg, like you enjoy referring to, is about 49 million/year . . . billions vs millions is about right.

And as far as the pensions, just which party has been giving away the farm over the years? Isn't JC one of those towns that has had to borrow money to pay their retirement bennies ('unused' vacation/sickpay?)? Somehow that's a suburban problem?

http://www.state.nj.us/education/guide/2013/district.shtml

Posted on: 2014/7/17 17:36
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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It's blue areas with their hands out? That's interesting, considering all the overpaid cops and teachers in red areas who pensions we all pay for, and the red Abbott districts of which there are plenty, and oh yeah, the poorest state in America is Mississippi- the reddest state in America that takes more federal money than anyone else.

Posted on: 2014/7/17 17:13
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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Monroe wrote:
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brewster wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
Red supporting blue-enjoy the largesse!


You DO know that nationally the majority of red states are sucking up taxes paid by blue states like NJ? And Jersey IS a blue state, anomalies like Christie not withstanding.

Resized Image


Yes, I agree our Democratic Senators have done an absolute piss poor job in bringing the taxes we send to the Feds. In fact, we're usually right at number 1 or 2 in getting the least amount back.

So the earners in NJ get screwed twice!


I love your "heads I win tails you lose" philosophy. It's not the dependent yet hypocritically "anti tax" red states or their greedy corrupt red state congressmen who focus more on pork than governing the nation that's the problem, it's those damn Dems who DON'T bring home the bacon!

Posted on: 2014/7/17 3:31
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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brewster wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Red supporting blue-enjoy the largesse!


You DO know that nationally the majority of red states are sucking up taxes paid by blue states like NJ? And Jersey IS a blue state, anomalies like Christie not withstanding.

Resized Image


Yes, I agree our Democratic Senators have done an absolute piss poor job in bringing the taxes we send to the Feds. In fact, we're usually right at number 1 or 2 in getting the least amount back.

So the earners in NJ get screwed twice!

Posted on: 2014/7/17 0:52
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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Monroe wrote:
Red supporting blue-enjoy the largesse!


You DO know that nationally the majority of red states are sucking up taxes paid by blue states like NJ? And Jersey IS a blue state, anomalies like Christie not withstanding.

Resized Image

Posted on: 2014/7/17 0:44
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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Truth is I think, property taxes are at around 2% of market value across all of NJ (give or take 20%), because that's what the market will bear. Any higher, and local bums get voted out of office - lower doesn't happen - local cities and counties will typically figure ways to spend all they can get.

Over the years, the state has figured ways to shift state spending to keep it that way - and that maximizes property taxes, while keeping state taxes lower.

It's not the Cities/Counties that really control local taxes, it's the state, and while your points may be valid in some respects, it ain't gonna change anytime soon.

Posted on: 2014/7/16 23:51
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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dtjcview wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
...

Then that's poorly written. The municipality sets the tax, collects it, and sends some to the county.
...


Wrong. JC sets its taxes. Hudson county sets its taxes. The numbers are combined, and the combined bill is sent from the City - which gives that ~$20k/year number.


Essex County collects, on average, 2.05% of a property's assessed fair market value as property tax.

No, the municipalities collect the tax and forward a portion to the county. In any case the suburban communities end up paying more for the county jails, social services, and graft that they don't use or benefit from.

Red supporting blue-enjoy the largesse!



That's just obtuse - and that quote is from the link. If you read the full article it's implicit it means Essex County residents pay on average, 2.05% of a property's assessed fair market value as property tax - it doesn't break out where that tax goes. And as far as I know, the only munis collecting Essex County taxes, are in Essex County.


Yes, I said it was poorly written. And the only hard information I could find was that Cedar Grove and Verona, two towns that wanted to secede from Essex County, pay about 20% of their municipal tax totals to the county.

In Cedar Grove, 22.6 percent of the average property tax bill went to pay for county services in 2013, according to the Essex County Tax Board. In Verona, that figure was about 18.3 percent. More than half of residents' tax bills went to school districts.

Posted on: 2014/7/16 23:38
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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Monroe wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
...

Then that's poorly written. The municipality sets the tax, collects it, and sends some to the county.
...


Wrong. JC sets its taxes. Hudson county sets its taxes. The numbers are combined, and the combined bill is sent from the City - which gives that ~$20k/year number.


Essex County collects, on average, 2.05% of a property's assessed fair market value as property tax.

No, the municipalities collect the tax and forward a portion to the county. In any case the suburban communities end up paying more for the county jails, social services, and graft that they don't use or benefit from.

Red supporting blue-enjoy the largesse!



That's just obtuse - and that quote is from the link. If you read the full article it's implicit it means Essex County residents pay on average, 2.05% of a property's assessed fair market value as property tax - it doesn't break out where that tax goes. And as far as I know, the only munis collecting Essex County taxes, are in Essex County.

Quote:

In any case the suburban communities end up paying more for the county jails, social services, and graft that they don't use or benefit from.


And so what? Plenty of people paying property taxes in JC end up paying more for the county jails, social services, and graft that they don't use nor benefit from.

Posted on: 2014/7/16 23:30
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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At this point it's semantics, but the county doesn't collect the total and remit some back to the municipality-it's the other way around.

Anyway, in Hudson County it's a Democrat clusterf@@k, with one corrupt town trying to screw another over.

In Essex County it's red supporting blue, with blue standing with its hands out.


Posted on: 2014/7/16 23:24
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
...

Then that's poorly written. The municipality sets the tax, collects it, and sends some to the county.
...


Wrong. JC sets its taxes. Hudson county sets its taxes. The numbers are combined, and the combined bill is sent from the City - which gives that ~$20k/year number.


Essex County collects, on average, 2.05% of a property's assessed fair market value as property tax.

No, the municipalities collect the tax and forward a portion to the county. In any case the suburban communities end up paying more for the county jails, social services, and graft that they don't use or benefit from.

Red supporting blue-enjoy the largesse!


Posted on: 2014/7/16 23:03
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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Monroe wrote:
...

Then that's poorly written. The municipality sets the tax, collects it, and sends some to the county.
...


Wrong. JC sets its taxes. Hudson county sets its taxes. The numbers are combined, and the combined bill is sent from the City - which gives that ~$20k/year number.

Posted on: 2014/7/16 22:56
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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Monroe wrote:
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Please show the math, are you saying that on a million dollar house in Essex County the county takes 20K? That's the entire municipal tax in Millburn for a house with that value.


http://www.tax-rates.org/new_jersey/essex_county_property_tax

The median property tax in Essex County, New Jersey is $8,117 per year for a home worth the median value of $395,700. Essex County collects, on average, 2.05% of a property's assessed fair market value as property tax.

That's muni plus county taxes - same number I used for JC and Short Hills.


Then that's poorly written. The municipality sets the tax, collects it, and sends some to the county. This is why Millburn and some other western Essex County towns have tried to secede from Essex County, but there is no way Newark, Irvington, and East Orange would accept losing all the nice Republican cash supporting their towns. Verona and Cedar Grove also tried to bail on Essex County. About 20% of one's municipal taxes in Essex go to the county.

Posted on: 2014/7/16 22:45
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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Monroe wrote:
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Please show the math, are you saying that on a million dollar house in Essex County the county takes 20K? That's the entire municipal tax in Millburn for a house with that value.


http://www.tax-rates.org/new_jersey/essex_county_property_tax

The median property tax in Essex County, New Jersey is $8,117 per year for a home worth the median value of $395,700. Essex County collects, on average, 2.05% of a property's assessed fair market value as property tax.

That's muni plus county taxes - same number I used for JC and Short Hills.

Posted on: 2014/7/16 22:29
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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dtjcview wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
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RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
No- your taxes are high because as you admit, you pay your public employees high salaries.

Towns in NJ that don't have lower taxes. See Ocean County.

And you get what you pay for- but of course, when it comes to Republicans' own backyards (or unwarranted wars) it's always worth it to spend a lot of money. It's just other people that don't deserve anything.


Again, you're deliberately missing the point. We get 11% of our schools costs covered, in the form of state support/return of tax money sent to Trenton. JC gets 76%. If we got an equitable/fair share amount (say 40%) back we'd see our taxes drop considerably. JC taxpayers pay 16% of their school cost, we pay 86%.

And I'm not even sure if the teacher costs are that much different. JC has a better teacher to student ratio, as well as a smaller percentage of 'classified' kids. JC also has more administrators per students.


Again it depends on what you think is fair and what other think is fair. As far as taxes go, it seems fair on a state-wide level.

A Short Hills property owner with a $1 million property pays ~$20k/year.
A JC property owner with a $1 million property pays ~$23k/year.

A converse argument could be made as to why does the JC property owner pay more for crappier schools and City services, than in Short Hills?

Unfortunately, taxes in NJ are not based on whatever sized personal bubble you think you should be contributing to.



Nah, it's because JC politicians haven't been very good with how they spend their money-as Yvonne says, look at the debt service they've incurred. Look at Morris vs Hudson Counties-the red Morris County hasn't had a tax increase in several years. How's the Hudson County portion of your tax bill these days? And it can be done, Jumping Joe D of Essex County turned around a county deficit of 64 million into a surplus of 44 million.



And Essex county's tax rate is ~2.05% of market value. For a $1m property, that's $20.5k/year. Spot the pattern?


Please show the math, are you saying that on a million dollar house in Essex County the county takes 20K? That's the entire municipal tax in Millburn for a house with that value.

Posted on: 2014/7/16 22:24
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
No- your taxes are high because as you admit, you pay your public employees high salaries.

Towns in NJ that don't have lower taxes. See Ocean County.

And you get what you pay for- but of course, when it comes to Republicans' own backyards (or unwarranted wars) it's always worth it to spend a lot of money. It's just other people that don't deserve anything.


Again, you're deliberately missing the point. We get 11% of our schools costs covered, in the form of state support/return of tax money sent to Trenton. JC gets 76%. If we got an equitable/fair share amount (say 40%) back we'd see our taxes drop considerably. JC taxpayers pay 16% of their school cost, we pay 86%.

And I'm not even sure if the teacher costs are that much different. JC has a better teacher to student ratio, as well as a smaller percentage of 'classified' kids. JC also has more administrators per students.


Again it depends on what you think is fair and what other think is fair. As far as taxes go, it seems fair on a state-wide level.

A Short Hills property owner with a $1 million property pays ~$20k/year.
A JC property owner with a $1 million property pays ~$23k/year.

A converse argument could be made as to why does the JC property owner pay more for crappier schools and City services, than in Short Hills?

Unfortunately, taxes in NJ are not based on whatever sized personal bubble you think you should be contributing to.



Nah, it's because JC politicians haven't been very good with how they spend their money-as Yvonne says, look at the debt service they've incurred. Look at Morris vs Hudson Counties-the red Morris County hasn't had a tax increase in several years. How's the Hudson County portion of your tax bill these days? And it can be done, Jumping Joe D of Essex County turned around a county deficit of 64 million into a surplus of 44 million.



And Essex county's tax rate is ~2.05% of market value. For a $1m property, that's $20.5k/year. Spot the pattern?

Posted on: 2014/7/16 22:20
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
No- your taxes are high because as you admit, you pay your public employees high salaries.

Towns in NJ that don't have lower taxes. See Ocean County.

And you get what you pay for- but of course, when it comes to Republicans' own backyards (or unwarranted wars) it's always worth it to spend a lot of money. It's just other people that don't deserve anything.


Again, you're deliberately missing the point. We get 11% of our schools costs covered, in the form of state support/return of tax money sent to Trenton. JC gets 76%. If we got an equitable/fair share amount (say 40%) back we'd see our taxes drop considerably. JC taxpayers pay 16% of their school cost, we pay 86%.

And I'm not even sure if the teacher costs are that much different. JC has a better teacher to student ratio, as well as a smaller percentage of 'classified' kids. JC also has more administrators per students.


Again it depends on what you think is fair and what other think is fair. As far as taxes go, it seems fair on a state-wide level.

A Short Hills property owner with a $1 million property pays ~$20k/year.
A JC property owner with a $1 million property pays ~$23k/year.

A converse argument could be made as to why does the JC property owner pay more for crappier schools and City services, than in Short Hills?

Unfortunately, taxes in NJ are not based on whatever sized personal bubble you think you should be contributing to.



Nah, it's because JC politicians haven't been very good with how they spend their money-as Yvonne says, look at the debt service they've incurred. Look at Morris vs Hudson Counties-the red Morris County hasn't had a tax increase in several years. How's the Hudson County portion of your tax bill these days? And it can be done, Jumping Joe D of Essex County turned around a county deficit of 64 million into a surplus of 44 million.


Posted on: 2014/7/16 21:41
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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Monroe wrote:
Quote:

RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
No- your taxes are high because as you admit, you pay your public employees high salaries.

Towns in NJ that don't have lower taxes. See Ocean County.

And you get what you pay for- but of course, when it comes to Republicans' own backyards (or unwarranted wars) it's always worth it to spend a lot of money. It's just other people that don't deserve anything.


Again, you're deliberately missing the point. We get 11% of our schools costs covered, in the form of state support/return of tax money sent to Trenton. JC gets 76%. If we got an equitable/fair share amount (say 40%) back we'd see our taxes drop considerably. JC taxpayers pay 16% of their school cost, we pay 86%.

And I'm not even sure if the teacher costs are that much different. JC has a better teacher to student ratio, as well as a smaller percentage of 'classified' kids. JC also has more administrators per students.


Again it depends on what you think is fair and what other think is fair. As far as taxes go, it seems fair on a state-wide level.

A Short Hills property owner with a $1 million property pays ~$20k/year.
A JC property owner with a $1 million property pays ~$23k/year.

A converse argument could be made as to why does the JC property owner pay more for crappier schools and City services, than in Short Hills?

Unfortunately, taxes in NJ are not based on whatever sized personal bubble you think you should be contributing to.


Posted on: 2014/7/16 21:25
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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Our taxes are high in JC because our debt is high. As an example, McCann floated a $128.9 million bond for operating expenses in 1991 and we are still paying for this bond. We pay nearly $70 million each year on bond debt, in the early 1990s that figure was around $20 million each year. McCann wasn't the only one, Schundler, Healy, and even Fulop floated some bonds to cover parts of the budget.

Posted on: 2014/7/16 21:18
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
No- your taxes are high because as you admit, you pay your public employees high salaries.

Towns in NJ that don't have lower taxes. See Ocean County.

And you get what you pay for- but of course, when it comes to Republicans' own backyards (or unwarranted wars) it's always worth it to spend a lot of money. It's just other people that don't deserve anything.


Again, you're deliberately missing the point. We get 11% of our schools costs covered, in the form of state support/return of tax money sent to Trenton. JC gets 76%. If we got an equitable/fair share amount (say 40%) back we'd see our taxes drop considerably. JC taxpayers pay 16% of their school cost, we pay 86%.

And I'm not even sure if the teacher costs are that much different. JC has a better teacher to student ratio, as well as a smaller percentage of 'classified' kids. JC also has more administrators per students.

Posted on: 2014/7/16 21:02
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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No- your taxes are high because as you admit, you pay your public employees high salaries.

Towns in NJ that don't have lower taxes. See Ocean County.

And you get what you pay for- but of course, when it comes to Republicans' own backyards (or unwarranted wars) it's always worth it to spend a lot of money. It's just other people that don't deserve anything.

Posted on: 2014/7/16 20:33
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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Millburn's taxes are high because it pays its teachers and cops six figure salaries, and the value of property there is high.

It's interesting that Republicans are so interested in Abbott when it comes to Jersey City, but take no interest in red neck hellholes like Cumberland County or Phillipsburg which we here in JC subsidize.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that JC is 25% white and has a lot of gay people.

And funny how Republicans in the burbs never complain about every two bit town with 5 people having 10 cops making six figures, while our cops get paid pennies to get shot and attacked. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the police union and their support either.

And funny how Republicans in the burbs raised no concern when JC and Hoboken got less Sandy money than we should have, but suburban mayors who support the governor got it instead.

And funny how Republicans don't complain when Union City gets millions from the Port Authority despite bordering no water or state line.

It really is Jersey City and Newark that are the whole problem, I guess...LOL


Republicans oppose Abbott everywhere in the state, from JC on the Hudson to Phillipsburg on the Delaware.

Yup, we pay our teachers well-and Millburn High School is consistently one of the top high schools in the entire nation. That's accountability. JC spends 25% more per student, sucks up half a billion a year in state taxpayer support, and 1/3 don't graduate. That's not accountability.

And yes, inner city cops deserve more for the risks they take, as we sadly saw this week.

As far as JC and Newark being the problem-well, it was four thugs from Newark who killed the shopper at the Short Hills Mall, no?

But my taxes are high because the state only funds 11% of the school costs. The school budget is around 85 million, so 75 million is funded by township owners. The rest of the town budget is around 50 million. Getting an equitable amount of school funding would have a strong impact on lowering taxes.

Posted on: 2014/7/15 22:00
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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Millburn's taxes are high because it pays its teachers and cops six figure salaries, and the value of property there is high.

It's interesting that Republicans are so interested in Abbott when it comes to Jersey City, but take no interest in red neck hellholes like Cumberland County or Phillipsburg which we here in JC subsidize.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that JC is 25% white and has a lot of gay people.

And funny how Republicans in the burbs never complain about every two bit town with 5 people having 10 cops making six figures, while our cops get paid pennies to get shot and attacked. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the police union and their support either.

And funny how Republicans in the burbs raised no concern when JC and Hoboken got less Sandy money than we should have, but suburban mayors who support the governor got it instead.

And funny how Republicans don't complain when Union City gets millions from the Port Authority despite bordering no water or state line.

It really is Jersey City and Newark that are the whole problem, I guess...LOL

Posted on: 2014/7/15 20:46
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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Pebble wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
With a third of JC students not graduating, despite getting half a billion dollars/year of suburban subsidies-we're not getting what we pay for, are we?

Yes. Yes, you are. You are getting the comforting feeling that they don’t live near you.

Stop being so obtuse. You don’t buy into your area because you want to live near poverty. People buy into luxury condos, paying high maintenance fees and taxes because they want their neighbors to be the people that can afford the same.

Let’s drop those taxes in Short Hills to $3k/year. You can enjoy those large houses getting turned into multi-family units for the Campbells of the world to shoot up your local Walgreens.


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Yvonne wrote:
When people have nothing to say, then they throw personal attacks, you make me laugh about personal wealth, I spent my adult life teaching in Catholic Schools which is not the vocation for personal wealth.

It isn’t a personal attack. You’re the ideal candidate for Ayn Rand. It doesn’t make you a bad person. It makes you predictable.

As an aside “personal wealth” doesn’t necessarily mean you have millions. Every person on the planet has a personal wealth, it just varies person to person.


Why would I follow Ayn Rand, an atheist? She also carried on an affair while being married, I consider marriage a sacrament. I would not be a follower of Ayn Rand.

Posted on: 2014/7/15 19:20
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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brewster wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
Brewster, JC per student costs in 2011-2012 were $22,273.
Millburn spent waaaaay less, $17,877 per student-just about 25% more per student in JC.

With a 66% graduation rate in JC. All with a half billion per year, every year, in suburban taxpayer support.

And I don't mind supporting those in need, it's just that the results are lousy and I have to believe there is a lot of wasted money-when you're paying the freight you do get a voice.


My mistake about relative costs, but I 'll bet most of that difference is a far higher need of special ed and ESL. But you don't seem to want reform (which I won't deny there's room for), you exclusively say JC should not be taking your Millburn taxes. And you falsely claim your taxes are higher, which they are not. Taxes are compared by rate, not dollar amount. Arguing a mansion should be taxed the same dollar amount as a shack because they're both houses is simply disingenuous.



Your argument doesn't stand. Rate has nothing to do with it. Millburn's taxes are high because we get very little state education support. The school cost is the major portion of the real estate tax-offhand it's 85 million, and the township cost is around 60 million. And because the state sends only 10 million or so the town has to make it up. And why does the state send only 11% of the school costs? Because it's sending a billion to Newark, half a billion to JC, etc.


Posted on: 2014/7/15 18:16
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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hmm, some interesting figures and arguments folks.

Monroe, you have a point that my formula of valuing the golf course as if it were brownstones is problematic. I think you told me I was an idiot or something. It is true that the land is valued and then the improvements are for the total assessment. But just calling it unimproved land doesn't make sense either.

In some of your posts, Monroe, you go on about the relative assets of different towns... So I think that unimproved land sold at Exchange place for like 14 million an acre when the last empty Colgate lots were sold. So empty lots can fetch quit a lot around here.

And I'm more or less a Von Hayek conservative and not against golf clubs- I even thing they should be free to say no women allowed- though I'd never join one. But my question was- is it being fairly taxed? I don't know that its not- but I wonder. There's this thing about it that is sort of like a fantasy of Paul Fireman. It's kind of cool- but its a ghost course. No one is ever on it. Maybe the city needs to raise the taxes so the place is used, so that they can hire kids as caddies and greens keepers etc.

It's best for everyone when we all live together- super rich, middle class and poor. I remember a sociological study that showed that as long as 10% of the residents of an neighborhood were professional but the other 90% working poor or welfare idled, it hung together. As soon as it went below that figure the neighborhood became unlivable.

I always thought one of the problems with places like SHort Hills is that they outsourced their Mt. Laurel obligations for affordable housing by putting it in Jersey City or Newark. This was really the last thing Jersey needed then (in the 1970s).

The education establishment, sorry teachers, is just so problematic. It is a pity that charters have been the death knell for Catholic schools which did a pretty good job with very little. Vouchers would provide opportunity for the poor and would increase efficiencies. Strangely enough, one of the big things that shot Brett Schundler down when he ran for governor a decade ago was an alliance of the teacher's union and the suburban soccer moms in Short Hills. They did not want the education status quo opened up- so Schundler actually lost in many monied towns in the suburbs.

Anyway, still would like to know what the golf course pays.


Posted on: 2014/7/15 18:10
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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Monroe wrote:
Brewster, JC per student costs in 2011-2012 were $22,273.
Millburn spent waaaaay less, $17,877 per student-just about 25% more per student in JC.

With a 66% graduation rate in JC. All with a half billion per year, every year, in suburban taxpayer support.

And I don't mind supporting those in need, it's just that the results are lousy and I have to believe there is a lot of wasted money-when you're paying the freight you do get a voice.


My mistake about relative costs, but I 'll bet most of that difference is a far higher need of special ed and ESL. But you don't seem to want reform (which I won't deny there's room for), you exclusively say JC should not be taking your Millburn taxes. And you falsely claim your taxes are higher, which they are not. Taxes are compared by rate, not dollar amount. Arguing a mansion should be taxed the same dollar amount as a shack because they're both houses is simply disingenuous.

Posted on: 2014/7/15 17:57
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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Monroe wrote:
Brewster, it seems you want to continue to receive the largesse of others. Millburn/Short Hills residents pay what is needed to run their town.


You seem to feel we should stop being a society and become Libertarian Land, walled fiefdoms that look out only for their own. The fact that high housing prices keeps the poor out of Millburn doesn't mean they cease to exist. They're here, and in Newark, and in other pockets around an otherwise very affluent NJ. It seems irrational for a presumably educated man to be so disappointed that these poor cities can't pay their way to provide a rung up on the ladder for people with few opportunities. The fact that it fails so often IS disappointing, but your answer of society washing it's hands and walking away is not rational.

You complain of the transfer. If JC spent more than Millburn per student you might have a point. We don't. Nor can taxes here be raised to the level to compensate, they would not be paid and the city would be destroyed with abandoned property everywhere. This is the essence of the Abbott decision.

You have no answer, just a lot of "it's unfair to take my money and give it to THOSE PEOPLE".


Brewster, JC per student costs in 2011-2012 were $22,273.
Millburn spent waaaaay less, $17,877 per student-just about 25% more per student in JC.

With a 66% graduation rate in JC. All with a half billion per year, every year, in suburban taxpayer support.

And I don't mind supporting those in need, it's just that the results are lousy and I have to believe there is a lot of wasted money-when you're paying the freight you do get a voice.

Posted on: 2014/7/15 17:25
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Re: What Is the Total Property Tax Contribution of Liberty National?
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Monroe wrote:
Brewster, it seems you want to continue to receive the largesse of others. Millburn/Short Hills residents pay what is needed to run their town.


You seem to feel we should stop being a society and become Libertarian Land, walled fiefdoms that look out only for their own. The fact that high housing prices keeps the poor out of Millburn doesn't mean they cease to exist. They're here, and in Newark, and in other pockets around an otherwise very affluent NJ. It seems irrational for a presumably educated man to be so disappointed that these poor cities can't pay their way to provide a rung up on the ladder for people with few opportunities. The fact that it fails so often IS disappointing, but your answer of society washing it's hands and walking away is not rational.

You complain of the transfer. If JC spent more than Millburn per student you might have a point. We don't. Nor can taxes here be raised to the level to compensate, they would not be paid and the city would be destroyed with abandoned property everywhere. This is the essence of the Abbott decision.

You have no answer, just a lot of "it's unfair to take my money and give it to THOSE PEOPLE".

Posted on: 2014/7/15 17:08
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