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Vigilante

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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"Maybe the casino developer will help curb crime?" Now that's hilarious.

Posted on: 2014/7/12 1:11

hero69

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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why not out the ferris wheel in liberty state park

Posted on: 2014/7/12 0:21

RUinHamiltonPark

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Quote:

SteveWilson29 wrote:
Quote:

RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
More residents = more property taxes = more money to hire municipal employees...and the reality is we probably don't need more employees but rather better philosophy in Greenville and BL.

And casinos don't always bring crime. How much crime is there around the casino in Montreal? Or Foxwoods? Crime was in AC before the casinos, probably worse so.

You seem to be under the impression that any development is a good development. Casinos decrease the quality of communities, especially low income ones. Motor sport stadiums have significant negative impacts on the environment. The only good place for one is in the middle of nowhere, if anywhere. I don't think we need new residents badly enough to allow any part of this project to succeed.

Port Liberte is not a low income community. And, I pointed out examples where that is not the case.

I grew up 15 minutes from Englishtown Raceway. It is surrounded by 500k+ homes. They are still waiting for the environmental impact.

These are excuses made by the anti-development crowd. Everything is bad for the environment, the poor, etc. I am a proud liberal but I am not a growth stunter. This would actually create jobs and the next time Spectra or whoever wants to run a pipeline through, more people to oppose a real threat.

Posted on: 2014/7/11 20:24

user1111

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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People on this end will use the ferry not the PATH when this is done.

Posted on: 2014/7/11 17:53

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caj11

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Quote:

JCishome wrote:
Does anyone seriously think this racetrack/casino/95 story building will ever really happen? It's a total fabrication so they can build yet another soul-killing condo tower and say "see? This isn't so bad".

Ah, I should have known. You're right, that totally makes sense. Maybe this is just to deflect attention from the three residential towers going up in Journal Square. How the hell the PATH train will handle the added people, I have no idea.

Posted on: 2014/7/11 17:44

JCMan8

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Quote:

JCishome wrote:
Does anyone seriously think this racetrack/casino/95 story building will ever really happen? It's a total fabrication so they can build yet another soul-killing condo tower and say "see? This isn't so bad".

Don't forget 100,000 person stadium and the world's largest Ferris wheel.

Posted on: 2014/7/11 17:41

Monroe

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Quote:

JCishome wrote:
Does anyone seriously think this racetrack/casino/95 story building will ever really happen? It's a total fabrication so they can build yet another soul-killing condo tower and say "see? This isn't so bad".

In the radio interview Fulop referred to the design of the hotel/casino/residence building as 'iconic' at least three or four times!

https://soundcloud.com/steve-scott/skyscraper-casino-and-f1

Posted on: 2014/7/11 17:33

JCishome

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Does anyone seriously think this racetrack/casino/95 story building will ever really happen? It's a total fabrication so they can build yet another soul-killing condo tower and say "see? This isn't so bad".

Posted on: 2014/7/11 17:31

caj11

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Quote:

RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
More residents = more property taxes = more money to hire municipal employees...and the reality is we probably don't need more employees but rather better philosophy in Greenville and BL.

And casinos don't always bring crime. How much crime is there around the casino in Montreal? Or Foxwoods? Crime was in AC before the casinos, probably worse so.

It's not the casinos themselves that bring the crime, but the sudden increase in visitors and traffic that results. Any kind of large-scale development that comes with a sudden increase in visitors is bound to increase the crime. The crime rate may be lower but the overall crime will be higher, necessitating more law enforcement.

Posted on: 2014/7/11 17:00

Monroe

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
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ianmac47 wrote:
"107,500-seat stadium for motor sports"

Hahaha, NASCAR?! Hill billys is coming to dat here big ol' city.

Chi-chi international F1 can't get the funds to host a race on the Hudson, yet NASCAR would be able to get a track built in a nanosecond, frankly. It's the NIMBY stuff that has kept NASCAR out of the metro area (see the Staten Island attempt), not lack of fan support.

Are you for diversity except when it comes to good ol' boys in da hood? :)

NASCAR?s popularity is on the decline. It?s also a sport that is fixed. No thanks on wanting it here. PA is close enough.

Quote:

hero69 wrote:
remember how xanadu and/or the red bulls stadium were going to be big sucesses

Xanadu sucks, but Red Bull Arena is fine. It?s quite a success, actually?

Quote:

hero69 wrote:
attendance has just been weak, weak, weak....

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/42928490/#!bcSheV

Attendance to an MLS team that has spent approximately $100 on advertising? How about the international matches? How about the friendlies played with RBNY?

Saying that attendance is bad so the stadium is a failure is absurd. Building a house doesn?t mean people want to buy it. You have to advertise.

All racing is hurt by the Obama economy, the NASCAR fans are the middle class that are hemorrhaging jobs. If the economy ever comes back they'll be fine. Fixed, not really. Yes, they may throw a late race caution to tighten the field to make for a thrilling finish, but fixed, no. (Although it probably has happened a few times over the last fifty years or so under extraordinary circumstances).

Xanadu sucks? Yes, a dumb idea from the get-go. Yes, architecturally sucky for sure-but it's not open, how could it suck?

Red Bull-thankfully, enough people drink that poison to support the facility and sports worldwide. Soccer just doesn't cut it for most Americans. Even Pele couldn't save it in the US. Other than Beckham, I can't name a single soccer star playing in the USA or internationally other than the goalie from the World Cup and the guy that didn't make the team.

Posted on: 2014/7/11 16:56

SteveWilson29

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Quote:

RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
More residents = more property taxes = more money to hire municipal employees...and the reality is we probably don't need more employees but rather better philosophy in Greenville and BL.

And casinos don't always bring crime. How much crime is there around the casino in Montreal? Or Foxwoods? Crime was in AC before the casinos, probably worse so.

You seem to be under the impression that any development is a good development. Casinos decrease the quality of communities, especially low income ones. Motor sport stadiums have significant negative impacts on the environment. The only good place for one is in the middle of nowhere, if anywhere. I don't think we need new residents badly enough to allow any part of this project to succeed.

Posted on: 2014/7/11 16:09

RUinHamiltonPark

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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More residents = more property taxes = more money to hire municipal employees...and the reality is we probably don't need more employees but rather better philosophy in Greenville and BL.

And casinos don't always bring crime. How much crime is there around the casino in Montreal? Or Foxwoods? Crime was in AC before the casinos, probably worse so.

Posted on: 2014/7/11 16:00

La_Verdad

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Quote:

hero69 wrote:
attendance has just been weak, weak, weak....

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/42928490/#!bcSheV

You should re-read the article. Quote:

"Never mind that the Red Bulls averaged 18,281 fans per game last year, while the Brooklyn Nets check in at 17,100 per game and the New York Rangers are at 17,678 per game."

That was the 2013 attendance. 2014 increased to 19,460 and 22,264 in the playoffs.

The Nets and Rangers are both playoff teams in their sports - and the Red Bulls outdrew them (and the Nets and Rangers, I would bet - particularly the Rangers - have a hell of a lot more corporate ticket buyers than the Red Bulls.)

Posted on: 2014/7/11 15:20

JCMan8

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Quote:

Atsushi wrote:
Basically I'm concerned about one thing and one thing only, which is traffic on I-78 and the bridge.
I use this every day to commute. Will it become much worse than what it is now?

Yes, how could there be any way of avoiding it? The stadium alone will hold over 100,000 people. Let alone the 95 story complex containing hotels, apartments, and possibly a casino. And I think there's only one light rail stop there, meaning most will have to drive.

Even if public transport somehow improves in the area, when you add tens or hundreds of thousands of people to an area, traffic will always get worse.

Posted on: 2014/7/11 14:34

caj11

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

caj11 wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

caj11 wrote:
more visitors to a city = more crime; it's a fact of life.

Explain NYC...

News flash, New York City has crime, at least some of it attributable to the fact that there are visitors from all over the world.

News flash? I never claimed NYC didn't have crime. That would be a silly claim. In fact, I didn't make ANY claims in my post. But, you did. You specifically claimed "more visitors to a city = more crime". And, you claimed that to be a fact.

So, my question remains: can you explain NYC? Over the past decade, visitors to NYC have increased year after year, and yet crime has decreased (numbers, and rates).

All right, so there are exceptions to the rule. The best way I can explain NYC is that the increase in visitors has been gradual over the years, whereas there would be a significant uptick in Jersey City compared to the year before this property is opened.

I'm pretty sure that putting in a major attraction to a city that is relatively small compared to NYC would produce an increase in crime. The increase in visitors to NYC has been gradual over the years. Putting in this casino/resort/whatever it's going to be would result in a larger number of visitors bursting onto the scene all at once. Just like in Atlantic City where the casino industry burst onto the scene in a relatively short amount of time. Resorts, Caesars & Bally's all opened within the space of less than two years, and there was a HUGE uptick in visitors to A.C. over the previous years. Crime increased considerably, presumably in part due to the increased number of visitors. Police in A.C. and the city's infrastructure were overwhelmed. NYC on the other hand, has had a more GRADUAL uptick in visitors, making it easier for law enforcement to adjust.

Posted on: 2014/7/11 14:24

Atsushi

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Basically I'm concerned about one thing and one thing only, which is traffic on I-78 and the bridge.
I use this every day to commute. Will it become much worse than what it is now?

Posted on: 2014/7/11 14:23

Pebble

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
"107,500-seat stadium for motor sports"

Hahaha, NASCAR?! Hill billys is coming to dat here big ol' city.

Chi-chi international F1 can't get the funds to host a race on the Hudson, yet NASCAR would be able to get a track built in a nanosecond, frankly. It's the NIMBY stuff that has kept NASCAR out of the metro area (see the Staten Island attempt), not lack of fan support.

Are you for diversity except when it comes to good ol' boys in da hood? :)

NASCAR?s popularity is on the decline. It?s also a sport that is fixed. No thanks on wanting it here. PA is close enough.

Quote:

hero69 wrote:
remember how xanadu and/or the red bulls stadium were going to be big sucesses

Xanadu sucks, but Red Bull Arena is fine. It?s quite a success, actually?

Quote:

hero69 wrote:
attendance has just been weak, weak, weak....

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/42928490/#!bcSheV

Attendance to an MLS team that has spent approximately $100 on advertising? How about the international matches? How about the friendlies played with RBNY?

Saying that attendance is bad so the stadium is a failure is absurd. Building a house doesn?t mean people want to buy it. You have to advertise.

Posted on: 2014/7/11 14:21

Dos A Cero

Lima17

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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hero69 wrote:
attendance has just been weak, weak, weak....

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/42928490/#!bcSheV

How much of this a reflection of the product on the field? They seem to have a pretty lousy team, yet they average over 70% capacity. Again, I've never been there, but it sounds to me like they did a pretty good job with the stadium itself. Sounds similar to Citifield where they have a beautiful stadium, but a lousy product on the field. They actually average less than 70% capacity.

Posted on: 2014/7/11 14:00

bodhipooh

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Quote:

caj11 wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

caj11 wrote:
more visitors to a city = more crime; it's a fact of life.

Explain NYC...

News flash, New York City has crime, at least some of it attributable to the fact that there are visitors from all over the world.

News flash? I never claimed NYC didn't have crime. That would be a silly claim. In fact, I didn't make ANY claims in my post. But, you did. You specifically claimed "more visitors to a city = more crime". And, you claimed that to be a fact.

So, my question remains: can you explain NYC? Over the past decade, visitors to NYC have increased year after year, and yet crime has decreased (numbers, and rates).

Posted on: 2014/7/11 13:48

scubachris

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Quote:

Lima17 wrote:
Quote:

hero69 wrote:
remember how xanadu and/or the red bulls stadium were going to be big sucesses

Curious, what are the negatives you've heard about Red Bulls Arena? I've only heard good things. I've never been, but I'm hoping to see a game there soon.

Red Bull Arena does a pretty good job of filling up, and it's a great place to see a game. It is also at the center of a huge area of redevelopment. I'm not sure what was promised when they built it, but I think it could be considered a success.

Posted on: 2014/7/11 13:14

Monroe

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
"107,500-seat stadium for motor sports"

Hahaha, NASCAR?! Hill billys is coming to dat here big ol' city.

Chi-chi international F1 can't get the funds to host a race on the Hudson, yet NASCAR would be able to get a track built in a nanosecond, frankly. It's the NIMBY stuff that has kept NASCAR out of the metro area (see the Staten Island attempt), not lack of fan support.

Are you for diversity except when it comes to good ol' boys in da hood? :)

Fulop says it will be for Formula 1.

Posted on: 2014/7/11 13:11

hero69

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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attendance has just been weak, weak, weak....

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/42928490/#!bcSheV

Posted on: 2014/7/11 12:53

Lima17

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Quote:

hero69 wrote:
remember how xanadu and/or the red bulls stadium were going to be big sucesses

Curious, what are the negatives you've heard about Red Bulls Arena? I've only heard good things. I've never been, but I'm hoping to see a game there soon.

Posted on: 2014/7/11 11:17

hero69

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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remember how xanadu and/or the red bulls stadium were going to be big sucesses

Posted on: 2014/7/11 6:25

SteveWilson29

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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You guys do realize that motor sports contribute heavily to both noise and air pollution? I've been to Daytona and the Indy 500 more times than I can remember, and you can hear the races for miles from the stadium. And they want to put that thing in a fucking park? The only decent park we have?

Posted on: 2014/7/11 5:15

JCMan8

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Conformist wrote:
Quote:

SteveWilson29 wrote:
Quote:

moobycow wrote:
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SteveWilson29 wrote:
Where exactly would a 100, 000 person stadium plus parking go? There's no room down there.

One would assume they have an idea of where they are putting things but it is a good question. If you took the whole area just south of the park I think you could fit a speedway but then there wouldn't be much room for a casino. I suppose the footprint of the building doesn't need to be that large and I would guess they mostly just want to punt on parking and say take mass transit, which would obviously not work with that many people.

Just south of the park is the golf course and point liberte. There really isn't much undeveloped land there.

The guy planning this owns the golf course. Maybe he's planning to rip it out.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for golfers to be golfing next to a loud racetrack...

Posted on: 2014/7/11 5:01

Yvonne

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Prostitution problem link:
http://www.mtrmedia.com/2012/05/atlan ... ss-crime-or-exploitation/

Posted on: 2014/7/11 3:28

WhoElseCouldIBe

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

caj11 wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

caj11 wrote:
more visitors to a city = more crime; it's a fact of life.

Explain NYC...

News flash, New York City has crime, at least some of it attributable to the fact that there are visitors from all over the world. Some of those visitors do get robbed/attacked sometimes. It happens. Of course, I will readily admit that all the extra tax revenue brought in and jobs created as a result of those visitors far outweighs the resulting added crime. I don't think the same thing could be said for Jersey City.

Also, when I say more crime, I am speaking in aggregate terms. The crime rate in Atlantic City is actually lower than it was before casinos if you count all the visitors as part of the city's population. But any way you slice it, the total amount of crime is higher - hence the need for more law enforcement and hence one of the previous posters' doubts about the Jersey City police being able to handle the added crime that comes with more visitors.

Now you sound like Mayor Healy when he said crime is down. The prostitution problem is really bad.

lulwut

Posted on: 2014/7/11 2:53

dtjcview

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

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Quote:

caj11 wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

caj11 wrote:
more visitors to a city = more crime; it's a fact of life.

Explain NYC...

News flash, New York City has crime, at least some of it attributable to the fact that there are visitors from all over the world. Some of those visitors do get robbed/attacked sometimes. It happens. Of course, I will readily admit that all the extra tax revenue brought in and jobs created as a result of those visitors far outweighs the resulting added crime. I don't think the same thing could be said for Jersey City.

Also, when I say more crime, I am speaking in aggregate terms. The crime rate in Atlantic City is actually lower than it was before casinos if you count all the visitors as part of the city's population. But any way you slice it, the total amount of crime is higher - hence the need for more law enforcement and hence one of the previous posters' doubts about the Jersey City police being able to handle the added crime that comes with more visitors.

That's where I think we need to give the developer a real stake and interest in managing the level of crime. Casinos can raise the level of crime in an area, but not always. Truth is, we won't know until after the casino is built, and the picture could easily change over time. If the casino is designed to appeal to locals, then yes - it could fuel local crime. If it's designed to appeal to higher-income earners, day-trippers, and overseas tourists, then maybe not. If the casino has to pay for JC policing based on the overall level of crime in JC, or perhaps some formula based on gambling-related crime, then it would be an incentive for them to actively help keep a lid on it.

Posted on: 2014/7/11 2:43

FGJCNJ1970

Re: A casino in Jersey City? Venture capitalist wants to make it happen

#91

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Can we prohibit any of said venture capitalists contributing BIG (and I mean BIG) BUCKS to the Fulop for Governor campaign? And their subsidiaries and contractors (including unions)too?

This city has been bought and paid for. When will folks wake up.

FG

Posted on: 2014/7/11 2:33

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