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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Related note. The parking garage at the Maddox is home to a Tesla supercharging station, which is apparently available to the public. Hyatt has one too but I think it's only available to guests. So that means if you're downtown (or for that matter anywhere in the city) there is a close place to recharge. Not quite as convenient as being able to have a charger in your own building but the equivalent of a nearby gas station.

Posted on: 2015/4/3 13:33
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New Jersey reverses ban on Tesla's direct auto sales

Gov. Chris Christie signs bill Wednesday that allows the electric carmaker to open a maximum of four direct-sale dealerships in the state.

  • CNET - by                                                                                        
  • March 18, 2015 12:45 PM PDT

Tesla just notched another victory against the traditional auto industry: it can sell its electric cars in New Jersey after a nearly year-long ban in the Garden State.

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie signed a bill Wednesday afternoon reauthorizing the Palo Alto, Calif.-based electric automaker to open a maximum of four direct-sale stores with at least one service center. New Jersey last April capitulated to lobbying demands from the New Jersey Coalition of Automotive Retailers by passing regulation that halted Tesla's ability to sell its electric cars direct to consumers instead of through independent dealerships.

Tesla's Model S sedans, which range in price between $70,000 and into the six figures, are selling at a faster clip each year, and New Jersey is home to the fourth-largest luxury car market in the US -- behind New York, California and Florida.

http://www.cnet.com/news/new-jersey-r ... esla-direct-to-consumers/


Posted on: 2015/3/19 6:50
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NJ Assembly approves Tesla Direct sales.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101765465?trknav=homestack:topnews:16

Posted on: 2014/6/17 16:41
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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

CdeCoincy wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
I'd rather have a computer running the State : You load all the details of a project, proposal, costings, needs, services, funds pro's and con's and it spits out an answer void of any influence ... Humans are crap at it and easily corrupted.


It's amazing and amusing how righteous everyone gets over political influence in Trenton, while locally ignoring that it may have been created and perfected in Hudson County by the Democratic machine in the 1920's and continues to this day.

Want to see where the money comes from? How much money did Booker raise outside NJ? Why is Senator Menendez spending so much NJ constituent time helping Florida residents? Check his donor list.

Want to see where BILLIONS of dollars was sent by Obama? Check his donors.

Christie is small potatoes, and better than most.

Find me another political player in the nation who works in a bi-partisan manner more than him, regardless of political fall out (like the bro hug with Barack Hussein Obama).

You guys really do crack me up sometimes!


Roe Roe, why do you and the other Christie Catamites need to rely on the argument that others have done it, so why can't he? Who gives a shit if political influence was perfected a century ago in Hudson county? Actually it was probably perfected 20 centuries ago in Rome or 25 in Athens.

On Tesla, as I recall, you cited the WSJ. On issues of minimum wage you cited the WSJ. Surely, you can find a more objective reference than the Völkischer Beobachter of the 1%.



Christie catamites? I had to look up the word, you must be quite familiar with the meaning, lol.


Certainly, we are not all 2 generations away from illiteracy. LOL

Posted on: 2014/6/7 21:35
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Quote:

CdeCoincy wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
I'd rather have a computer running the State : You load all the details of a project, proposal, costings, needs, services, funds pro's and con's and it spits out an answer void of any influence ... Humans are crap at it and easily corrupted.


It's amazing and amusing how righteous everyone gets over political influence in Trenton, while locally ignoring that it may have been created and perfected in Hudson County by the Democratic machine in the 1920's and continues to this day.

Want to see where the money comes from? How much money did Booker raise outside NJ? Why is Senator Menendez spending so much NJ constituent time helping Florida residents? Check his donor list.

Want to see where BILLIONS of dollars was sent by Obama? Check his donors.

Christie is small potatoes, and better than most.

Find me another political player in the nation who works in a bi-partisan manner more than him, regardless of political fall out (like the bro hug with Barack Hussein Obama).

You guys really do crack me up sometimes!


Roe Roe, why do you and the other Christie Catamites need to rely on the argument that others have done it, so why can't he? Who gives a shit if political influence was perfected a century ago in Hudson county? Actually it was probably perfected 20 centuries ago in Rome or 25 in Athens.

On Tesla, as I recall, you cited the WSJ. On issues of minimum wage you cited the WSJ. Surely, you can find a more objective reference than the Völkischer Beobachter of the 1%.



Christie catamites? I had to look up the word, you must be quite familiar with the meaning, lol.

Posted on: 2014/6/7 19:41
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
I'd rather have a computer running the State : You load all the details of a project, proposal, costings, needs, services, funds pro's and con's and it spits out an answer void of any influence ... Humans are crap at it and easily corrupted.


It's amazing and amusing how righteous everyone gets over political influence in Trenton, while locally ignoring that it may have been created and perfected in Hudson County by the Democratic machine in the 1920's and continues to this day.

Want to see where the money comes from? How much money did Booker raise outside NJ? Why is Senator Menendez spending so much NJ constituent time helping Florida residents? Check his donor list.

Want to see where BILLIONS of dollars was sent by Obama? Check his donors.

Christie is small potatoes, and better than most.

Find me another political player in the nation who works in a bi-partisan manner more than him, regardless of political fall out (like the bro hug with Barack Hussein Obama).

You guys really do crack me up sometimes!


Roe Roe, why do you and the other Christie Catamites need to rely on the argument that others have done it, so why can't he? Who gives a shit if political influence was perfected a century ago in Hudson county? Actually it was probably perfected 20 centuries ago in Rome or 25 in Athens.

On Tesla, as I recall, you cited the WSJ. On issues of minimum wage you cited the WSJ. Surely, you can find a more objective reference than the Völkischer Beobachter of the 1%.


Posted on: 2014/6/7 19:31
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
I'd rather have a computer running the State : You load all the details of a project, proposal, costings, needs, services, funds pro's and con's and it spits out an answer void of any influence ... Humans are crap at it and easily corrupted.


It's amazing and amusing how righteous everyone gets over political influence in Trenton, while locally ignoring that it may have been created and perfected in Hudson County by the Democratic machine in the 1920's and continues to this day.

Want to see where the money comes from? How much money did Booker raise outside NJ? Why is Senator Menendez spending so much NJ constituent time helping Florida residents? Check his donor list.

Want to see where BILLIONS of dollars was sent by Obama? Check his donors.

Christie is small potatoes, and better than most.

Find me another political player in the nation who works in a bi-partisan manner more than him, regardless of political fall out (like the bro hug with Barack Hussein Obama).

You guys really do crack me up sometimes!

Posted on: 2014/6/7 16:40
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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I'd rather have a computer running the State : You load all the details of a project, proposal, costings, needs, services, funds pro's and con's and it spits out an answer void of any influence ... Humans are crap at it and easily corrupted.

Posted on: 2014/6/7 14:29
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Monroe wrote:
I'm not sure when consumer protections were first put into place for auto buyers, but it was for sure many, many decades ago.

"Consumer protection?" Please.

Aside from the reduced need for on-site maintenance due to over-the-air firmware updates and the nature of the engine's design, 3rd party repairs are always an option.

Car dealers can be useful from an economic perspective. But the legal requirements for autos to be sold via a dealer has nothing to do with "consumer protections."


Quote:
If a change is needed, it goes through your elected representatives, not directed by fiat through the Governors office.

Guess what? It got changed.


Quote:
In any case, this is a lot of hot air about the tiny number of NJ millionaires who want to buy a very expensive car from a billionaire.

The Model S costs $70,000. While that's not cheap, that's also not "millionaire" territory, especially since the TCO tends to be lower than with gas cars. Oh, and the 3rd gen car may be $35,000.


Quote:
I'm of the opinion that when we have problems in NJ it's best to spend our time and money going after the low hanging fruit that will result in improvements for many NJ residents, not the entitled few.

Yes, because it's taken SO much effort to pass a regulation allowing zero-emission cars to be sold in NJ.

Resized Image

Posted on: 2014/6/7 14:23
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Interesting list (and many more) of I.O.U 's hanging over Christie !

http://blog.northjersey.com/thepoliti ... st-100k-so-far-this-year/

Christie like many politicians from all parties forget that they are electected into office by individuals not corporations, yet they seem to solely address corporation needs and demands !

We need to stop electing idiots

Those interested - here are all those involved in buying the NJ Governor - http://blog.northjersey.com/thepoliti ... les/2014/04/RGA2014Q1.pdf

Posted on: 2014/6/7 14:08

Edited by fat-ass-bike on 2014/6/7 14:24:53
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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A close inspection of organizations that donate to the Christie campaign will enlighten us on why he seeks to block Tesla


Nonsense, just more silly flaccid Christie bashing attempts.

Changing the way cars are sold in NJ takes Legislative action (you know, done by the Democrat controlled Legislature).

I'm not sure when consumer protections were first put into place for auto buyers, but it was for sure many, many decades ago.

If a change is needed, it goes through your elected representatives, not directed by fiat through the Governors office.

In any case, this is a lot of hot air about the tiny number of NJ millionaires who want to buy a very expensive car from a billionaire. I'm of the opinion that when we have problems in NJ it's best to spend our time and money going after the low hanging fruit that will result in improvements for many NJ residents, not the entitled few.


Posted on: 2014/6/7 12:35
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A close inspection of organizations that donate to the Christie campaign will enlighten us on why he seeks to block Tesla

Posted on: 2014/6/7 6:38
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radryan03 wrote:
AH - thanks for the clarification


My apologies. You were right the first time. Tesla is back.

http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/06/tesl ... -consumers-in-new-jersey/

Posted on: 2014/6/7 3:36
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Bergdahl Damnit!!!

Posted on: 2014/6/6 20:02
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AH - thanks for the clarification

Posted on: 2014/6/6 19:04
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radryan03 wrote:
Voted 4-0.... sales start again and two more store fronts will open.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/ ... ances_in_nj_assembly.html


This is not final. It is just the first step. The law simply "advanced" and sales will not restart until the law is voted on by a larger group. The article is faulty for not specifying the next steps.

Anyway, this is a very good first step.

Posted on: 2014/6/6 18:33
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Voted 4-0.... sales start again and two more store fronts will open.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/ ... ances_in_nj_assembly.html

Posted on: 2014/6/6 18:02
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Monroe wrote:
To sum up-a) you can't find anything to disprove my statements, b) you'd rather make silly comments about me, because c) see a).

There's plenty of reasons to disagree with your statements.

1) People should have the right to buy a car directly from a manufacturer if they want.
2) Tesla's engine design, and over-the-air software updates, reduces the need for maintenance.
3) There's no question at this point that Christie would veto any legislation.
4) There's little doubt that Christie is doing it to appease the car dealer lobby.


Quote:
Did anyone read the WSJ article where they said Musk was open to a regular dealer structure ONCE Tesla got big enough? What a populist!

Sure. Why is that a problem?

While Tesla is small, they will benefit from direct sales. If they get big enough that there will be an advantage to setting up a dealer network, they'll set up a dealer network. Or, Tesla may never want to set up a dealer network.

Tesla's involvement is also nearly inconsequential at this point. Either it's a good idea, or it isn't. It is fallacious to say that "I don't like Musk, therefore anything he suggests is a bad idea."

And no, no one is saying that dealers "screw" the customers. It's that they are middle men. If they add value to the product, without dramatically increasing costs, then it's a good thing. If they are not necessary, then they are just increasing consumer costs.

The problem is not that dealers exist. It's that they have a very powerful lobby, and they are pushing their own agenda for their own benefit.

Posted on: 2014/3/31 18:24
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JCMan8 wrote:
We all know that if Christie's position was reversed, Monroe would be the first to praise Christie for standing up to the corrupt dealership lobby. He'd also find some way to bash the Democrats.


To sum up-a) you can't find anything to disprove my statements, b) you'd rather make silly comments about me, because c) see a).

Did anyone read the WSJ article where they said Musk was open to a regular dealer structure ONCE Tesla got big enough?

What a populist! Change the playing field while you build your brand, then go back to 'screwing' consumers (what many feel the present dealer structure does presently, no?) when it suits the billionaire.


Posted on: 2014/3/31 15:42
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We all know that if Christie's position was reversed, Monroe would be the first to praise Christie for standing up to the corrupt dealership lobby. He'd also find some way to bash the Democrats.

Posted on: 2014/3/31 15:36
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The facts remain: The Model S’ price does not exclude buyers who fall below “one percenter” status, and Americans are already fond of buying cars that are more expensive and less practical than what is minimally required for the task.

Posted on: 2014/3/31 15:35
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Frank_M wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
I don't think the public is looking for ways to save 1%ers more money on their 70K and higher car purchases, but it is raw meat to throw at the Christie haters who lack the intellectual capacity to see it for what it is.


Quote:

Monroe wrote:
It's a bit more complicated than supporting a billionaire selling a few hundred 'green' cars in NJ to 1%ers.


Cars in the Tesla Model S’ price range aren’t reserved for “one percenters.” Yes, it is an expensive luxury car, but like vehicles such as the BMW M3 or Audi S6, it’s still affordable for car-loving enthusiasts with modest incomes who are willing to pay a premium for high performance toys.

As far as jobs go, it’s unfortunate that the Governor doesn’t want to expedite the sale of an American car that mostly competes with foreign brands. Personally speaking, if I was in the market for a sedan in that price range, the Model S is the only domestically made vehicle I would consider.


I must disagree. People with modest incomes aren't buying a 70K car, not to mention that from what I've read overwhelmingly Tesla's are not primary family transportation. The 'modest' income families aren't buying a 70K plus car as the secondary family transport-plus the added expense of adding a high voltage power charging line to your house, which Tesla recommends for quicker charges.

But, again, go after the Democrat controlled Legislature to have them propose a change in the law-they're the ones in charge of drafting legislation before Christie can review it. AND, if he doesn't like the form of the law and vetoes it, the Legislature has the ability to overturn his veto and enact it into law if they support it so strongly.

Posted on: 2014/3/31 15:20
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Ais4Anarchy wrote:
Anyone else find it hilarious to hear Monroe using the 1% label?

You really will do anything to defend your hero Chris Christie. You are either a paid, paying (invested heavily in Christie campaign and probably profiting from his favor), or just infatuated. You are right about the Dems though they are the scum of the earth just like the Republicans.


1%'er is the new Benghazi, breh

Posted on: 2014/3/31 14:12
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Monroe wrote:
I don't think the public is looking for ways to save 1%ers more money on their 70K and higher car purchases, but it is raw meat to throw at the Christie haters who lack the intellectual capacity to see it for what it is.


Quote:

Monroe wrote:
It's a bit more complicated than supporting a billionaire selling a few hundred 'green' cars in NJ to 1%ers.


Cars in the Tesla Model S’ price range aren’t reserved for “one percenters.” Yes, it is an expensive luxury car, but like vehicles such as the BMW M3 or Audi S6, it’s still affordable for car-loving enthusiasts with modest incomes who are willing to pay a premium for high performance toys.

As far as jobs go, it’s unfortunate that the Governor doesn’t want to expedite the sale of an American car that mostly competes with foreign brands. Personally speaking, if I was in the market for a sedan in that price range, the Model S is the only domestically made vehicle I would consider.

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Anyone else find it hilarious to hear Monroe using the 1% label?

You really will do anything to defend your hero Chris Christie. You are either a paid, paying (invested heavily in Christie campaign and probably profiting from his favor), or just infatuated. You are right about the Dems though they are the scum of the earth just like the Republicans.

Posted on: 2014/3/31 13:13
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
A billionaire trying to muscle out millionaires is pretty much it, no?

So that 1%'ers, getting a minimum $7,500 or higher tax credit, can save more money?

If the public wants to re-examine existing law, have them contact their legislators.

I don't think the public is looking for ways to save 1%ers more money on their 70K and higher car purchases, but it is raw meat to throw at the Christie haters who lack the intellectual capacity to see it for what it is.

A billionaire special interest group vs millionaire special interest group-except one employs 35,000 NJ residents, and it ain't the billionaire.


I support direct sales regardless of whether I'd buy a Tesla or not. Arguing for the state to mandate middle men is economically inefficient.

I don't need a middle man to buy an iPhone. I can buy from Apple just fine. Less gov't bra, get some.


Fine, let Sweeney and the Dems in the Legislature write a bill and send it to Christie to sign-they're the ones holding it up, no? We are, after all, talking about a sea change in the way to sell autos in NJ, tens of thousands of jobs, and a new needed way to address product recalls-like the 2.2 MILLION USA GM car recall that began in February.

It's a bit more complicated than supporting a billionaire selling a few hundred 'green' cars in NJ to 1%ers (while getting a nice Obama tax rebate at the same time).

Posted on: 2014/3/31 1:57
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Monroe wrote:
A billionaire trying to muscle out millionaires is pretty much it, no?

So that 1%'ers, getting a minimum $7,500 or higher tax credit, can save more money?

If the public wants to re-examine existing law, have them contact their legislators.

I don't think the public is looking for ways to save 1%ers more money on their 70K and higher car purchases, but it is raw meat to throw at the Christie haters who lack the intellectual capacity to see it for what it is.

A billionaire special interest group vs millionaire special interest group-except one employs 35,000 NJ residents, and it ain't the billionaire.


I support direct sales regardless of whether I'd buy a Tesla or not. Arguing for the state to mandate middle men is economically inefficient.

I don't need a middle man to buy an iPhone. I can buy from Apple just fine. Less gov't bra, get some.

Posted on: 2014/3/31 1:14
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A billionaire trying to muscle out millionaires is pretty much it, no?

So that 1%'ers, getting a minimum $7,500 or higher tax credit, can save more money?

If the public wants to re-examine existing law, have them contact their legislators.

I don't think the public is looking for ways to save 1%ers more money on their 70K and higher car purchases, but it is raw meat to throw at the Christie haters who lack the intellectual capacity to see it for what it is.

A billionaire special interest group vs millionaire special interest group-except one employs 35,000 NJ residents, and it ain't the billionaire.

Posted on: 2014/3/31 0:35
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Any port in a storm, eh?

Here's a WSJ article where they recognize that the car dealers are a powerful lobby, who are powerful and vindictive:
http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intell ... -who-annoyed-car-dealers/

Here's another one which is not flattering to Musk, but calls the direct model "admirable" and that protectionism is bad for everyone:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/S ... 4914904579437393260106778

National Review, also not flattering to Musk, but supporting direct sales:
onalreview.com/corner/373313/teslas-new-jersey-problem-time-end-auto-dealers-plaid-jacketed-cabal-veronique-de-rugy

Posted on: 2014/3/31 0:24
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Tesla, N.Y. agree on direct sales

Tesla Motors Inc. and New York auto dealer lobbying groups reached an agreement that allows the electric-car maker to keep its five company-owned stores in the state and add others, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Friday.

"Today's agreement reaffirms New York's long-standing commitment to the dealer franchise system, while making sure New York remains a leader in spurring innovative businesses and encouraging zero emissions vehicle sales," Cuomo said in a statement. Legislation in New York will be introduced "in the near future" to implement the agreement, said Cuomo. He didn't say how many other stores would be added.

http://www.sfgate.com/business/articl ... -direct-sales-5358565.php


I'd read this as 'Tesla and NY agree to limit direct sale stores to 5, that presently exist, in the state with the largest city in the USA, dependent on the NY Legislature agreeing to it by changing existing NY law.'

And here's the Wall St. Journal's take

Tesla Seeks Loophole, Not a Revolution

The electric-car maker's battle with the dealer lobby is just a phase.

By
Holman W. Jenkins, Jr.

March 28, 2014 6:31 p.m. ET

Life must feel like one long insult to General Motors. In the 1990s, when the Internet was new, the Detroit car maker saw a chance to remake its relationship with the public by letting people buy their cars directly on the Web. Splat went the idea when statewide dealer lobbies mobilized to stop a threat to their business, which is largely founded on the most-hated part of the car-buying process, haggling. In Texas, Gov. George W. Bush signed one of the most stringent prohibitions.

Fifteen years later another Texas Republican governor suddenly likes the idea of direct sales now that Tesla has proposed it. "I think it's time for Texans to have an open conversation about this," Rick Perry told Fox News.

Mr. Perry will be retiring this year so his throw-weight with the Texas dealer lobby is approximately nil. Why was he even asked? Because Tesla founder Elon Musk has decided the way to fight this fight is to launch blog salvos holding Gov. Chris Christie guilty of conspiring with New Jersey dealers to kill the electric car. Mr. Christie is considered a GOP presidential mentionee. So is Mr. Perry. Get it?

Mr. Musk is right that dealers are protecting their anticompetitive interests by blocking Tesla-owned sales outlets. But it has nothing to do with opposition to electric cars (a typical Musk canard) or even Tesla. Dealers want to avoid having to compete with direct sales by the manufacturers they actually care about—which isn't tiny Tesla but GM, Toyota and other established giants as well as any Chinese company who might set up shop in the U.S. and bypass the independent dealer system.

This would suggest that Mr. Musk, if he wants to prevail, ought to get the other car makers on his side. He doesn't seem to have tried. His apparent goal isn't deregulating the auto retail business so much as merely browbeating a few states into carving out friendly exceptions for Tesla.

Mr. Musk makes himself an irresistible target when he gets on a high horse, as he's been doing a lot lately. His company benefits from a favor as democratically grotesque as the dealer-protection laws: a $7,500 rebate paid by federal taxpayers to every buyer of his cars, which are playthings for the rich. In California, where many Tesla cars are sold, buyers get an additional $2,500 in cash from state taxpayers. America, look at your driveway: How many of your cars are even worth $10,000?

His bluster about a politically-favored gasoline oligopoly resisting its doom rings even hollower given that GM already has been practicing for a decade in Brazil the direct-sales approach that Mr. Musk preaches. Everybody wins: Buyers are willing to pay more for a car if they can get exactly the trim package they want rather than settling for the closest available facsimile on a dealer's lot. Chopped out of everyone's overhead is the enormous cost of maintaining a wide dealer inventory.

But direct-sale may work better with an entry-level car like the Chevy Celta that GM sells in Brazil or a hobbyist item like Tesla peddles to dilettantes and early adopters. Once Tesla makes its hoped-for transition from a niche business to a volume manufacturer, with mainstream customers who expect to make serious demands on the product, even Mr. Musk has suggested a franchise dealer network may be the way to go. If so, expect much of his current rhetoric to disappear down the memory hole though he's quite right on the substance of his critique of dealer-protection laws.

When Mr. Musk becomes, for a moment, the voice of reform, one should not be filled with confidence. Automotive News last year bitingly referred to his fight with dealers as a "spat between the billionaire and the millionaires." The auto industry bible has a point. On most given days, Mr. Musk and the dealer lobby are two versions of the same thing, making it harder than it should be to choose sides in the current fisticuffs.





Posted on: 2014/3/31 0:04
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