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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Home away from home
 
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Do you hear that sound?
That silence is New York not giving a shit that the PATH is suspended indefinitely. Meanwhile, in New Jersey, the world is coming to an end.
Posted on: 2014/9/23 20:18
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Wishing and hoping is just that. 'Eating some costs'? If you think this tunnel (with no rail connectivity in Manhattan, stupidly) wouldn't approach the 190% Big Dig cost overruns you have a limited knowledge of metro area construction overruns. Frankly, the Feds total buy in was going to be around 4 billion. They offered not a single penny towards the cost overruns, which probably would approach the total Fed buy in, if not more. It was a lousy design, with not a penny of NYS or NYC money, and a total screw job for NJ taxpayers. Look to Big Bertha. Look to the Big Dig. Look to the MTA East River tunnel. And ask yourself why you want NJ to get screwed to benefit NY and NYC.
Posted on: 2014/5/22 13:58
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Home away from home
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None of what you wrote is based in reality or fact. At best the pages of NRO would consider it for publishing, which isn't saying much. For your last statement, I can only ask... Have you ever had your nose broken? Just curious...
Posted on: 2014/5/22 13:55
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Dos A Cero
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Yeah, that doesn't really matter. A tunnel is critical for NJ and NY; the Feds already offered a huge sum; it would have avoided paying Amtrak on that line; and once construction started, there's every possibility of getting the federal government to pitch in for some cost overruns. Christie made a huge mistake by canceling the tunnel, even if it building it meant eating some costs along the way. Quote: I'd suggest doing what I've done, which is contact our Senators and ask that they bring back Federal grant money to get this done. Uh, hello? McFly? This already was a "shovel ready" contract with long-term economic benefits. Christie canceled the tunnel, refused to return billions in federal funding allocated specifically for a tunnel, got into several lawsuits with the federal government, and spent the purloined cash on a bridge and a couple of roadways. He didn't even bother to pocket the funds for a better tunnel project. Even Congress isn't stupid enough to repeat that mistake. He has screwed the pooch. Now, we have to wait for another administration and another tunnel plan. The delays will add a dramatic increase in costs to get this done -- quite possibly more than just eating the cost overruns. Thanks, Chris.
Posted on: 2014/5/22 13:44
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Pebs, your Christie helicopter posts were disproven (yes, he uses the birds far less than previous Governors!), and you've offered nothing to dispute the fact Christie pulled the plug on the tunnel because it was structured for NJ to own every cent of the inevitable cost overruns. As for the hilarious 'misogynist' attack, lighten up honey!
Posted on: 2014/5/22 13:37
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Home away from home
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Or I'd rather not debate with a proven misogynist... The facts aren't on your side and you refuse to read them. Debate is useless...
Posted on: 2014/5/22 13:32
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Dos A Cero
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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In other words, you've got bubkus, lol.
Posted on: 2014/5/22 13:14
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Home away from home
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I see the misogyny continues! Good on you. As for the rest, your altruism is top notch and can never be called into question. The stand up nature in which you gallantly defend our blubbery bureaucrat in the face of scandal is a testament to your fortitude. I await your valiant defense in the face of the Charlie Baker controversy. I'm certain the facts are on your side.
Posted on: 2014/5/22 13:09
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Dos A Cero
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Pebs, honey, please link me to anything that indicates that any of the other stakeholders offered to put in money towards the Tunnel to Macy's basement inevitable cost overruns.
The original post was to highlight how much exposure NJ would have if something similar happened and we bore 100% of the liability. We can now add Big Bertha to the Big Dig, and the MTA East River tunnel is waaaaaaay over budget as well. The ONLY concession that was offered to Christie, when he extended his decision period, was that the Feds offered LOAN GUARANTEES, not grants, to the cost overruns . NY and NYC offered nothing at all, both for the contract and the inevitable cost overruns. Imagine that-predicting 44,000 NJ residents paying NY State income tax because of the tunnel, and not having to pay a single penny towards the tunnel. Not to mention the employment opportunities for NY state residents building the project. No wonder Schumer wants to revisit it. I'd suggest doing what I've done, which is contact our Senators and ask that they bring back Federal grant money to get this done. If Obama wants shovel ready jobs, wants to shore up infrastructure, help mass transit make a greener impact, he'd find a way to cut spending in other areas and send some to us-especially as we rank at the bottom of states receiving Federal aid, year after year after year.
Posted on: 2014/5/22 12:47
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Home away from home
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It wasn't started that way because there was no intent to have a legitimate conversation. It's all about giving excuses and justification for Christie to pull corrupt acts.
Posted on: 2014/5/22 12:37
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Dos A Cero
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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I'm still troubled by the logic of the subject title. Had it been:
NJTransit built the HBLR within Cost Expectations so why not ARC? or Deliberate Lowballing of ARC costs allow Christie to call actual cost 'overrun' would the thread have gone the same way?
Posted on: 2014/5/22 12:33
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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I'm well aware of that, having been stuck many times on a NJ Transit train waiting for the Amtrak trains who have priority over NJ Transit on the shared rail lines. My point is that NJ, and NJ Transit, can't afford to pay for the tunnel and cost overruns the way it was structured. It doesn't matter if Amtrak owned the process, if NJ is 100% responsible for the cost overruns it's still a non-starter.
Posted on: 2014/5/22 10:03
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Maybe you aren't aware. NJTransit already does pay Amtrak to use the existing tunnels, as well as many of the rails, especially the Northeast Corridor and tracks at Penn Station. The ARC tunnel would have been owned by NJTransit, avoiding rent to Amtrak and allowing NJTransit scheduling priority.
Posted on: 2014/5/22 4:46
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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High speed trains only make sense when the distance is something like 500 miles or less (i.e. train service btw Washington DC and Boston). There is a limit to how fast you can run a train. With special rails and very straight right of ways, you can run a train up to 230 mph or so. The Chinese ran trains faster, but slowed them down after killing a number of their passengers in some pretty spectacular derailments. You also have a high limit on speed because you might have to slow down for the next station stop before you even reach the top speed. We don't have the ability to run trains like that. Our tracks have too many turns. Europe and Asia had their railroads smashed in WWII, so they rebuilt them from scratch and eliminated the problem on the high speed lines. This is why AMTRAK had to design a train from scratch: One that could lean into turns and would be much heavier than a train set found in Europe or Asia. The latter is because the Federal government mandates stronger frames as accident protection than do the Euros, Japanese, etc.
Posted on: 2014/5/21 18:14
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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The pension 'reform' will probably come in the form of pension collapse. In 2010, the state pension system was less than 40% funded ($145 billion deficit) and was going to run out of money around 2019 (assuming the pension investments received an annual 8% return). I have no idea what the cash zero data is now since public employees are now required to contribute some $$$ to the funds.
Posted on: 2014/5/21 18:04
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Tell that to the people using Newark airport. 20 or 50 years from now when the cost of travelling by road and plane becomes more prohibitive, high-speed rail becomes increasingly attractive. And that rail won't get to Manhattan without decent tunnels.
Posted on: 2014/5/21 17:10
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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No way in a million years would anyone want to use something in Newark before Manhattan. First, due to the cost it will never happen. Second, if they actually constructed such a rail, no one would use it because everyone would be robbed by the friendly Newark residents. Many people aren't aware but Newark actually has a decent subway system. Except a ton of robberies occur there so no one uses it. You'll never have nice things in Newark as long as its critical mass of "bad people" continues to infest there.
Posted on: 2014/5/21 16:06
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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And why we're more likely to see one of these in Newark before Manhattan. NY's loss. http://inhabitat.com/vertical-hyper-s ... h-speed-rail-on-its-head/
Posted on: 2014/5/21 13:33
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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I believe if we have an excellent public transport system into Manhattan that has less congestion but with more frequency, it will have a HUGE compounding benefit to our residential development and population growth - I can only surmise that one of the major drawbacks to potential residents here is transport - throw in a pedestrian / bike tunnel and NJ / JC will be a boom city of grow and only then, will real estate prices match those in NY (or deflate NY prices on their westside)
Maybe this is why NY (stakeholders on their end) doesn't want to make any funds available for the tunnel
Posted on: 2014/5/21 13:10
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Hell, yea, I do. That's why our Senators have to do better than the piss poor job they have bringing back our tax dollars from DC. While NJ is almost always at the bottom of the barrel, our neighbor in NY gets back $.79 per dollar sent to Washington, NJ gets back $.61. That's a huge difference.
Posted on: 2014/5/21 12:11
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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because at some point, nj transit will be desperate for extra capacity...you wouldn't expect amtrak to to just give nj transit subsidized capacity?
Posted on: 2014/5/21 11:57
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Why would NJ Transit agree to that?
Posted on: 2014/5/21 10:46
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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maybe amtrak should build it and re-coup the costs by charging nj transit the costs
Posted on: 2014/5/21 3:38
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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I think we should solve our pension problem before we start building tunnels so that we don't become the state equivalent of Detroit.
Posted on: 2014/5/21 3:06
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ಠ_ಠ
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Schumer is waking up to the fact that NYC needs these tunnels built. They're not simply for NJ commuters - the rest of the world has woken up to the fact that high-speed rail links are increasingly essential for business travel, tourism and transporting goods. It's time NY committed to it's share and not stick NJ with the bill.
Posted on: 2014/5/20 22:47
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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It's a silly Star Ledger opinion piece. Christie is in favor of the tunnel, he's not in favor of NJ getting screwed by being on the hook for 100% of the inevitable (Big Dig, Big Bertha) billions of dollars of cost overruns. Nor would he be in favor of jump starting it again with diverted Sandy money. Note to all: if Chuck Schumer is in favor of a tunnel, it'll be good for NY and screw NJ. Did the Star Ledger ask him how much money NY is putting into the deal? I didn't see where the Star Ledger contacted Governor Cuomo to ask him that question either.
Posted on: 2014/5/20 18:40
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Manhattan has dropped from providing 43% of the metro areas employment 50 years ago, to around 26% today. And those jobs aren't simply retail. That was the point. And there has been a similar mass exodus of people from NY state for quite some time. http://www.empirecenter.org/pb/2009/10/empirestateexodus102709.cfm
Posted on: 2014/5/20 18:39
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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The Star Ledger reports that Christie may get another shot at making a deal for this tunnel.
http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... _cross-hudson_tunnel.html
Posted on: 2014/5/20 18:13
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Home away from home
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Thank you for proving the point. You have compressed those Fortune 500 companies to a very small area of NY while those in NJ are spread out a lot farther. So, where are the jobs? Spread across a large state area or compressed into a small island? High paying jobs are not exclusive to Fortune 500 companies either. The options in Manhattan are almost endless, while the options in Jersey... eh.
Posted on: 2014/5/20 12:59
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Dos A Cero
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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@Ianmac47 - compare the Fortune 500 companies based in NJ vs NY. Similar mix of companies based on relative population - 21 NJ vs 50 NY. And a large number on the NY list have sizable operations already in NJ. So no - I don't think it's simply been a migration of low-paid retail jobs and Walmart stores.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortun ... ne500/2012/states/NJ.html http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortun ... ne500/2012/states/NY.html
Posted on: 2014/5/19 20:12
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