dtjcview wrote:
How do violent crime stats compare overall in large cities that allow CC to those that don't?

Pebble wrote:
CA Police Chief: Guns are Not a Defensive Weapon

Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Dullard wrote:
Quote:

Great idea! Go off shooting in a mall parking lot with lots of other families around.

And if you see ?a drugged out guy walking towards you aggressively? why are you still walking in that same direction?!

Oh wait, you?re walking towards them because you have a gun and are willing to allow a situation to escalate where a confrontation could be avoided?

Better than being "bravely" shot in a parking lot with no recourse.

Oh, you mean why can't I just bravely run away from someone swiftly coming at me? Well, maybe I have a significant other with me who isn't so agile, or children or an elderly parent or my old dog or am carrying things (I guess I should bravely drop them and run, just in case).

Retard wrote:
Quote:

Seatbelt laws exist because most people don?t wear them. The existence of a seatbelt could negate healthcare costs in situations where they are used. Your strawman is absurd.

I don?t recall stating that I walked into ?the projects at night?. Find my quote where I said as much. My guess is that your reading comprehension is just very poor?

Most people don't wear seatbelts? What? What kind of moron doesn't wear a seatbelt? And what do seatbelt laws have to do with anything? And why would their existence indicate that a majority don't wear seatbelts? Do laws against murder indicate that most people would commit murder without them? Ugh...

I like how you went with a slur used against the mentally handicapped. Kind of shows your level of maturity?

CDC has statistics on how states where seatbelt laws do not exist their use is far lower. This is the dominating reason for the laws being enacted in multiple states. I?m sorry you were not informed enough to understand this.

Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Imbecile wrote:
Quote:

Reading comprehension again? ?A timid or easily intimidated person.? That absolutely describes you! ?A person that lacks courage in facing difficulty.? Yup, that?s also you! Tell me where I?m wrong.

The rest, well, I?ve no interest in your dick measuring contest. I know my lifestyle?

Timid or easily intimidated people don't grab weapons, they run away or avoid any potential for confrontation. Same with someone "lacking courage." You on one hand decry the concept of people reaching for a handgun if they might not survive, yet also complain that the person that would do that is also a coward. Based on this you declare that my reading comprehension is deficient. There is something deficient here and it isn't my reading comp.

Re part 2: Go ahead and snap your fingers and yell "you don't know me!" you lower class fool.

Ah yes, you completely ignore the part where your reading comprehension skills threw you under a bus?

Yes, easily intimidated people do grab weapons. It is like the blanket little children grab when they are afraid of the dark. They grab that gun to feel less timid because in the end they truly are cowards.

Quote:

JCishome wrote:
Guns, guns, guns. I get the civil libertarian side of the argument, I just cringe when people start using phrases like "real Americans" and describing situations in which they'll draw down on a pack of marauding drug-crazed perps. I'm in my 50s and spent the first two-thirds of my life in very sketchy places doing fairly sketchy things (coke-buying on the LES, circa 1979, anyone?). Not once have I felt the need for a gun. The whole "I need to carry a gun" thing feels like carrying around a fire extinguisher in case you see a burning building. Or wishful hoping that you'll get a chance to shoot one of those drug-crazed perps.

I think I'll go with the odds and remain gun-less.

I?d lean more on the ?wishful hoping? portion. It helps the cowards feel like men.

devilsadvocate wrote:
Dullard wrote:
Quote:

Great idea! Go off shooting in a mall parking lot with lots of other families around.

And if you see ?a drugged out guy walking towards you aggressively? why are you still walking in that same direction?!

Oh wait, you?re walking towards them because you have a gun and are willing to allow a situation to escalate where a confrontation could be avoided?

Better than being "bravely" shot in a parking lot with no recourse.

Oh, you mean why can't I just bravely run away from someone swiftly coming at me? Well, maybe I have a significant other with me who isn't so agile, or children or an elderly parent or my old dog or am carrying things (I guess I should bravely drop them and run, just in case).

Retard wrote:
Quote:

Seatbelt laws exist because most people don?t wear them. The existence of a seatbelt could negate healthcare costs in situations where they are used. Your strawman is absurd.

I don?t recall stating that I walked into ?the projects at night?. Find my quote where I said as much. My guess is that your reading comprehension is just very poor?

Most people don't wear seatbelts? What? What kind of moron doesn't wear a seatbelt? And what do seatbelt laws have to do with anything? And why would their existence indicate that a majority don't wear seatbelts? Do laws against murder indicate that most people would commit murder without them? Ugh...

devilsadvocate wrote:
Imbecile wrote:
Quote:

Reading comprehension again? ?A timid or easily intimidated person.? That absolutely describes you! ?A person that lacks courage in facing difficulty.? Yup, that?s also you! Tell me where I?m wrong.

The rest, well, I?ve no interest in your dick measuring contest. I know my lifestyle?

Timid or easily intimidated people don't grab weapons, they run away or avoid any potential for confrontation. Same with someone "lacking courage." You on one hand decry the concept of people reaching for a handgun if they might not survive, yet also complain that the person that would do that is also a coward. Based on this you declare that my reading comprehension is deficient. There is something deficient here and it isn't my reading comp.

Re part 2: Go ahead and snap your fingers and yell "you don't know me!" you lower class fool.

JCishome wrote:
Guns, guns, guns. I get the civil libertarian side of the argument, I just cringe when people start using phrases like "real Americans" and describing situations in which they'll draw down on a pack of marauding drug-crazed perps. I'm in my 50s and spent the first two-thirds of my life in very sketchy places doing fairly sketchy things (coke-buying on the LES, circa 1979, anyone?). Not once have I felt the need for a gun. The whole "I need to carry a gun" thing feels like carrying around a fire extinguisher in case you see a burning building. Or wishful hoping that you'll get a chance to shoot one of those drug-crazed perps.

I think I'll go with the odds and remain gun-less.

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

AlexC wrote:
Okay I give up. You win the pissing contest. When the law comes down I will carry when I want.

Have a great weekend.

Although I don't own a gun and have no plans to I would support New Jersey's ridiculous CCW law to be overturned. In practice, the only people who get approved to carry are former LEOs and politicians.

With that said, this topic was created because people are trying to persuade the Supreme Court to take up the appeal. They typically take less than 1% of such cases. Granted the odds are slightly higher here due to other states also petitioning them, but I think some here have the mistaken impression that all we have to do is wait for the decision to come down.

In fact, the odds are overwhelmingly likely the status quo remains as is for many years to come.

AlexC wrote:
Okay I give up. You win the pissing contest. When the law comes down I will carry when I want.

Have a great weekend.

AlexC wrote:
Okay I give up. You win the pissing contest. When the law comes down I will carry when I want.

Have a great weekend.

Great idea! Go off shooting in a mall parking lot with lots of other families around.

And if you see ?a drugged out guy walking towards you aggressively? why are you still walking in that same direction?!

Oh wait, you?re walking towards them because you have a gun and are willing to allow a situation to escalate where a confrontation could be avoided?

Seatbelt laws exist because most people don?t wear them. The existence of a seatbelt could negate healthcare costs in situations where they are used. Your strawman is absurd.

I don?t recall stating that I walked into ?the projects at night?. Find my quote where I said as much. My guess is that your reading comprehension is just very poor?

Reading comprehension again? ?A timid or easily intimidated person.? That absolutely describes you! ?A person that lacks courage in facing difficulty.? Yup, that?s also you! Tell me where I?m wrong.

The rest, well, I?ve no interest in your dick measuring contest. I know my lifestyle?

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:

It?s simple: the only people, not in law enforcement, which want to carry a gun, are doing so out of fear. Guns serve one purpose and one purpose along: death. You can?t double it over as a means to travel to work. You can?t use it to cut your hair. You can?t use it to pay a parking meter. It?s design, it?s intent, it?s purpose is death.

Point a gun at someone?s face. Their response is fear, fear of death. Thus you?re saying that you need this ability because of a surprise situation in which your life or family?s is threatened. Somehow, your cat-like reflexes will remove a pistol from a concealed position in such a way that the criminal surprising you will be unable to actually create the situation of grave threat.

No. We both know that is BS. The only hope is that the situation calms enough to the point that the perpetrator is leaving so that the gun handler can extract street justice.

Think about it. If someone mugger comes up and points a gun at your wife, is your first reaction to pull out the gun or to try and calm the guy to the point that your wife is safe? You are smart enough to know that if you pull your gun while it is pointed at her head, the likely response by the criminal is her immediate death followed by your own. It is far easier for the person with the weapon already drawn to fire off rounds than it is for other opposition to even draw.

Depends on the situation. If I see some drugged guy coming at me aggressively at night then my hand is likely already on the gun. If I am utterly surprised then you're right, I'm probably screwed. But maybe he is already shooting at my wife, and at that point I decide to go down fighting. That is a choice I want to have. If I'm in say, a mall parking lot, and I'm fighting with thugs about to kill me I would like the option of pulling my gun and at least having a snowball's chance in hell of winning the fight. But if you don't want to have that option then by all means, don't get a gun.

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

I?ve already given my story about a gun pointed in my face. I have no belief that people looking for trouble find it. Circumstances occur, just as that unfortunate man found when he died over a Land Rover.

The fact that you feel the need to walk around with a knife, shows that you are very much afraid of the dark. I?ve walked through the Montgomery Projects, granted it was early morning, and didn?t feel the need to have a weapon on me. I?ve walked into Crown Fried Chicken late on a Saturday night and didn?t feel the need to have a weapon on me.

On a regular basis, I deal with areas vastly more dangerous than you would ever venture into. I am no superman but I also don?t think there is some violent attacker at every turn. Considering all that, I?ve never been in a situation, including one where a gun was pointed between my eyes, in which I thought, ?If only I had gun, I would be safer.? Only fools and cowards think that.

I guess the fact that I wear a seatbelt or buy insurance also demonstrates I'm scared of a variety of things. Which is true, but I would respond that only a moron would be "brave" instead of preparing for possible eventualities. And I'd rather be a coward than a moron.

You do seem to be a moron, however. You venture into projects at night, all while declaring that you're brave because you don't take steps to protect yourself. Fantastic for you, but I would rather not be that stupid. I note again that I've been in two situation where having that weapon saved me from physical battles that I may well not have won. The fact that you continue to do stupid things and have not had your number come up doesn't in any way negate my desire to have the ability to protect myself.

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

Quote:

Seagull wrote:
I think Pebble just doesn't want to end up in the in morgue the next time he's trying to mug/rape/kill you. But in all seriousness, I don't understand your incessant need to call average citizens names for being prepared for a grave situation. It's childish and immature behavior on your part Pebble, like a spoiled kid that doesn't get their way.

Calling names? No. I?m calling it as it is.

People that hate others because of their race are racists. People that feel the need to walk down the street with a weapon of death are cowards. This is simply a fact.

No, you're calling names. I immediately noticed you were a moron but refrained from stating this because it is impolite to do so. In fact, noting that someone is stupid or poor or uneducated is what we typically describe as "calling names." Also, I note that you don't really use coward correctly either. The definition of coward is "a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.; a timid or easily intimidated person." Someone carrying a deadly weapon so that in a combat situation they could come out on top doesn't really fit that description at all. A coward would refuse to go outside at night or run away from all confrontations. You know why you don't use that word correctly? Because you're a dullard, a dimwit, a fool. I'm not calling names, I'm just "calling it like it is." I doubt you have a college degree (let alone one from a top school) and it wouldn't surprise me if you failed to graduate high school, and it would positively shock me if you had a graduate degree from a respectable institution in a worthwhile field of study. I doubt your salary is remotely respectable either, all of which stems from your utter stupidity. Still calling it like it is and not just being a pointless prick. If you disagree please feel free to point out where I crossed the line from "calling it like it is" to flagrant name calling. While you're at it, explain why your nonsense doesn't cross the same line.

mrasg1 wrote:
Wow clearly someone that should be carrying
a gun in person-whoa.

Pebble wrote:

It?s simple: the only people, not in law enforcement, which want to carry a gun, are doing so out of fear. Guns serve one purpose and one purpose along: death. You can?t double it over as a means to travel to work. You can?t use it to cut your hair. You can?t use it to pay a parking meter. It?s design, it?s intent, it?s purpose is death.

Point a gun at someone?s face. Their response is fear, fear of death. Thus you?re saying that you need this ability because of a surprise situation in which your life or family?s is threatened. Somehow, your cat-like reflexes will remove a pistol from a concealed position in such a way that the criminal surprising you will be unable to actually create the situation of grave threat.

No. We both know that is BS. The only hope is that the situation calms enough to the point that the perpetrator is leaving so that the gun handler can extract street justice.

Think about it. If someone mugger comes up and points a gun at your wife, is your first reaction to pull out the gun or to try and calm the guy to the point that your wife is safe? You are smart enough to know that if you pull your gun while it is pointed at her head, the likely response by the criminal is her immediate death followed by your own. It is far easier for the person with the weapon already drawn to fire off rounds than it is for other opposition to even draw.

I?ve already given my story about a gun pointed in my face. I have no belief that people looking for trouble find it. Circumstances occur, just as that unfortunate man found when he died over a Land Rover.

The fact that you feel the need to walk around with a knife, shows that you are very much afraid of the dark. I?ve walked through the Montgomery Projects, granted it was early morning, and didn?t feel the need to have a weapon on me. I?ve walked into Crown Fried Chicken late on a Saturday night and didn?t feel the need to have a weapon on me.

On a regular basis, I deal with areas vastly more dangerous than you would ever venture into. I am no superman but I also don?t think there is some violent attacker at every turn. Considering all that, I?ve never been in a situation, including one where a gun was pointed between my eyes, in which I thought, ?If only I had gun, I would be safer.? Only fools and cowards think that.

Quote:

Seagull wrote:
I think Pebble just doesn't want to end up in the in morgue the next time he's trying to mug/rape/kill you. But in all seriousness, I don't understand your incessant need to call average citizens names for being prepared for a grave situation. It's childish and immature behavior on your part Pebble, like a spoiled kid that doesn't get their way.

Calling names? No. I?m calling it as it is.

People that hate others because of their race are racists. People that feel the need to walk down the street with a weapon of death are cowards. This is simply a fact.

boomer wrote:
We need to follow Florida's lead, become a shall carry state and pass a law that prohibits localities from regulating firearms. I need to carry my .357 to work, my kids school, to church, to Target and to the bar when I get my drink on. And I need to stay proficient by shooting targets in my backyard.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/0 ... ges-idUSBREA251JV20140306

/*sarcasm off*/

user1111 wrote:

People don't realize that criminals are more likely to arm themselves with firearms if they suspect that victims may also be armed. Felons report that they often carry firearms to deter victims from resisting. A victim drawing a gun during an attack sends a signal to the offender that more force must be used to overpower the victim during an attack.

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

AlexC wrote:
I don't know why you insist it's fear or cowardice but if it'll make you feel better about yourself, then that's fine.

Given a choice, I'd rather be able to live through that one life-threatening experience, which hopefully will never happen in which I would have to shoot someone.

You don't believe in carrying a deadly weapon, fine - that's you, but given a choice, an equalizer is nice to have.

It?s simple: the only people, not in law enforcement, which want to carry a gun, are doing so out of fear. Guns serve one purpose and one purpose along: death. You can?t double it over as a means to travel to work. You can?t use it to cut your hair. You can?t use it to pay a parking meter. It?s design, it?s intent, it?s purpose is death.

Point a gun at someone?s face. Their response is fear, fear of death. Thus you?re saying that you need this ability because of a surprise situation in which your life or family?s is threatened. Somehow, your cat-like reflexes will remove a pistol from a concealed position in such a way that the criminal surprising you will be unable to actually create the situation of grave threat.

No. We both know that is BS. The only hope is that the situation calms enough to the point that the perpetrator is leaving so that the gun handler can extract street justice.

Think about it. If someone mugger comes up and points a gun at your wife, is your first reaction to pull out the gun or to try and calm the guy to the point that your wife is safe? You are smart enough to know that if you pull your gun while it is pointed at her head, the likely response by the criminal is her immediate death followed by your own. It is far easier for the person with the weapon already drawn to fire off rounds than it is for other opposition to even draw.

Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:

Fear of the dark is cowardice. Fear of walking down the street without a gun is the same.

You aren?t accurate about height, weight nor age. I just don?t walk around looking for trouble or decide that everyone I meet may be a gangster. I certainly think it is possible that there are certain thugs, quite a few of them given their rage and propensity for violence, that could dispatch with me easily. That doesn?t mean I?m going to run home crying at the sheer sight of them.

If you are afraid to walk down the street without a gun, why would you live in that area? If you are afraid to go to a certain restaurant in an area of town without a gun, why go to the restaurant?

I simply cannot comprehend this overwhelming fear that people have of the world.

Oh, I walk outside at night quite often. You seem to incorrectly presume that my legitimate understanding that the world is a dangerous place keeps me at home. It doesn't. But speaking of carrying a knife, having a weapon on me has saved me from violence more than once. I never had to actually use it (thank God), but it turns out that many attackers reconsider when they realize that it could cost them. Now, that has never happened in JC, but none were in particularly dangerous places (I would say on-par with many JC neighborhoods). Why don't I live in a cookie cutter suburb with virtually no crime? Because while I am a coward (by your definition), I'm not THAT much of a coward. So here I am, in JC, and I'd rather carry a gun with me to keep me safe. I'll vote for that and I'll donate money for that because it matters to me.

By the way, you seem to presume that the people who get trouble walk around looking for it. I am the quintessential yuppy, and I absolutely would never under any circumstances go looking for trouble. But sometimes it finds you and you're incredibly naive if you think otherwise. If you believe that I'm suddenly going to go looking for trouble because now I have a gun in addition to a knife then you are completely out of your mind. I accept your coward label, and generally speaking if I see trouble I'd rather walk in another direction than reach for a weapon. But really think for a second about what you would do if trouble found you. I've been there. Your choices at that point become extremely limited. No, police will not protect you because they're not there. They can help clean up your body, document what happened, look for the perp. But you're still dead. So you tell me, what do you do when trouble finds you? Why would your rather not have a good weapon?

I?ve already given my story about a gun pointed in my face. I have no belief that people looking for trouble find it. Circumstances occur, just as that unfortunate man found when he died over a Land Rover.

The fact that you feel the need to walk around with a knife, shows that you are very much afraid of the dark. I?ve walked through the Montgomery Projects, granted it was early morning, and didn?t feel the need to have a weapon on me. I?ve walked into Crown Fried Chicken late on a Saturday night and didn?t feel the need to have a weapon on me.

On a regular basis, I deal with areas vastly more dangerous than you would ever venture into. I am no superman but I also don?t think there is some violent attacker at every turn. Considering all that, I?ve never been in a situation, including one where a gun was pointed between my eyes, in which I thought, ?If only I had gun, I would be safer.? Only fools and cowards think that.

Quote:

Seagull wrote:
I think Pebble just doesn't want to end up in the in morgue the next time he's trying to mug/rape/kill you. But in all seriousness, I don't understand your incessant need to call average citizens names for being prepared for a grave situation. It's childish and immature behavior on your part Pebble, like a spoiled kid that doesn't get their way.

Calling names? No. I?m calling it as it is.

People that hate others because of their race are racists. People that feel the need to walk down the street with a weapon of death are cowards. This is simply a fact.

AlexC wrote:
I don't know why you insist it's fear or cowardice but if it'll make you feel better about yourself, then that's fine.

Given a choice, I'd rather be able to live through that one life-threatening experience, which hopefully will never happen in which I would have to shoot someone.

You don't believe in carrying a deadly weapon, fine - that's you, but given a choice, an equalizer is nice to have.

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:

Fear of the dark is cowardice. Fear of walking down the street without a gun is the same.

You aren?t accurate about height, weight nor age. I just don?t walk around looking for trouble or decide that everyone I meet may be a gangster. I certainly think it is possible that there are certain thugs, quite a few of them given their rage and propensity for violence, that could dispatch with me easily. That doesn?t mean I?m going to run home crying at the sheer sight of them.

If you are afraid to walk down the street without a gun, why would you live in that area? If you are afraid to go to a certain restaurant in an area of town without a gun, why go to the restaurant?

I simply cannot comprehend this overwhelming fear that people have of the world.

Oh, I walk outside at night quite often. You seem to incorrectly presume that my legitimate understanding that the world is a dangerous place keeps me at home. It doesn't. But speaking of carrying a knife, having a weapon on me has saved me from violence more than once. I never had to actually use it (thank God), but it turns out that many attackers reconsider when they realize that it could cost them. Now, that has never happened in JC, but none were in particularly dangerous places (I would say on-par with many JC neighborhoods). Why don't I live in a cookie cutter suburb with virtually no crime? Because while I am a coward (by your definition), I'm not THAT much of a coward. So here I am, in JC, and I'd rather carry a gun with me to keep me safe. I'll vote for that and I'll donate money for that because it matters to me.

By the way, you seem to presume that the people who get trouble walk around looking for it. I am the quintessential yuppy, and I absolutely would never under any circumstances go looking for trouble. But sometimes it finds you and you're incredibly naive if you think otherwise. If you believe that I'm suddenly going to go looking for trouble because now I have a gun in addition to a knife then you are completely out of your mind. I accept your coward label, and generally speaking if I see trouble I'd rather walk in another direction than reach for a weapon. But really think for a second about what you would do if trouble found you. I've been there. Your choices at that point become extremely limited. No, police will not protect you because they're not there. They can help clean up your body, document what happened, look for the perp. But you're still dead. So you tell me, what do you do when trouble finds you? Why would your rather not have a good weapon?

Seagull wrote:
I think Pebble just doesn't want to end up in the in morgue the next time he's trying to mug/rape/kill you. But in all seriousness, I don't understand your incessant need to call average citizens names for being prepared for a grave situation. It's childish and immature behavior on your part Pebble, like a spoiled kid that doesn't get their way.

Pebble wrote:

Fear of the dark is cowardice. Fear of walking down the street without a gun is the same.

You aren?t accurate about height, weight nor age. I just don?t walk around looking for trouble or decide that everyone I meet may be a gangster. I certainly think it is possible that there are certain thugs, quite a few of them given their rage and propensity for violence, that could dispatch with me easily. That doesn?t mean I?m going to run home crying at the sheer sight of them.

If you are afraid to walk down the street without a gun, why would you live in that area? If you are afraid to go to a certain restaurant in an area of town without a gun, why go to the restaurant?

I simply cannot comprehend this overwhelming fear that people have of the world.

AlexC wrote:
As another poster stated - CCW holders do not usually carry all the time, for example, I wouldn't need it on my daily run to drive my daughter to school, even though it's in a shady part of town. But is I were to drive and park my car a few blocks away around the area in the evening for a PTA meeting, I might certainly decide to be armed. It's a choice.

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
For all of the cowards, do you walk around with a knife now? You can certainly conceal one a lot easier than a gun. You would also be able to increase your defense abilities with one than without. After all, the entire need of a gun is to increase your abilities to defend yourself given your fear of walking down the street.

Quote:

AlexC wrote:
you can call it anything you want, but for me it's Insurance - just in case. in that one event where there is no other recourse. and I will train at the range and compete in IDPA as much as I can and practice with my firearm. I want to be able to shoot back if I have to. I don't think this is cowardice - it's being prepared.

It?s being prepared?because you are so very afraid that each and every day there might be a situation that you just can?t walk away from.

Yes, the underlying reason you want to carry a gun is fear.

Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
You can consider me a coward but I'll still happily take my gun, thank you very much. The fact that it can kill multiple people in seconds is what makes it so very fantastic. When I see several shady characters approaching me at night I certainly would feel far safer. But I'm sure you're such a strong, valiant man that when you'll be middle aged that you will beat the crap out of several thugs at the same time. Best of luck with that.

As for how someone is alive without this, that is neither here nor there. I have an acquaintance that was an ex-heroin user. The fact that he is alive doesn't in any way negate the fact that heroin addiction often ends with death.

You know nothing of my age. I?ve lived long enough and traveled well enough that I know third world conditions, I know ghettos and I know that the only people that feel the need to carry a gun every time they step out of the house is a coward.

The drug dealer is afraid that his stash will be stolen or that a rival will shoot him. You are afraid to walk down the street.

Coward present and reporting. Yes, I carry a knife now. And even with a CCW, I would want to carry it because not only is it a great weapon, but it is often useful as a tool. It is commonly used for cutting sandwiches in half or opening packages.

With regard to your point about fear, I note that I also wear my seat belt and pay for insurance because of fear. Where fear of harm is justified, reasonably reducing that fear is not cowardly, but smart.

With regards to items like knowing your age, I have to assume you are a 6'4", 220lb 20something ex-special forces guy that can kick anyone's teeth in, because if you're a middle aged fool that most thugs could dispatch with ease then your position would be even more foolish.

Pebble wrote:
For all of the cowards, do you walk around with a knife now? You can certainly conceal one a lot easier than a gun. You would also be able to increase your defense abilities with one than without. After all, the entire need of a gun is to increase your abilities to defend yourself given your fear of walking down the street.

Quote:

AlexC wrote:
you can call it anything you want, but for me it's Insurance - just in case. in that one event where there is no other recourse. and I will train at the range and compete in IDPA as much as I can and practice with my firearm. I want to be able to shoot back if I have to. I don't think this is cowardice - it's being prepared.

It?s being prepared?because you are so very afraid that each and every day there might be a situation that you just can?t walk away from.

Yes, the underlying reason you want to carry a gun is fear.

Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
You can consider me a coward but I'll still happily take my gun, thank you very much. The fact that it can kill multiple people in seconds is what makes it so very fantastic. When I see several shady characters approaching me at night I certainly would feel far safer. But I'm sure you're such a strong, valiant man that when you'll be middle aged that you will beat the crap out of several thugs at the same time. Best of luck with that.

As for how someone is alive without this, that is neither here nor there. I have an acquaintance that was an ex-heroin user. The fact that he is alive doesn't in any way negate the fact that heroin addiction often ends with death.

You know nothing of my age. I?ve lived long enough and traveled well enough that I know third world conditions, I know ghettos and I know that the only people that feel the need to carry a gun every time they step out of the house is a coward.

The drug dealer is afraid that his stash will be stolen or that a rival will shoot him. You are afraid to walk down the street.

AlexC wrote:
you can call it anything you want, but for me it's Insurance - just in case. in that one event where there is no other recourse. and I will train at the range and compete in IDPA as much as I can and practice with my firearm. I want to be able to shoot back if I have to. I don't think this is cowardice - it's being prepared.

devilsadvocate wrote:
You can consider me a coward but I'll still happily take my gun, thank you very much. The fact that it can kill multiple people in seconds is what makes it so very fantastic. When I see several shady characters approaching me at night I certainly would feel far safer. But I'm sure you're such a strong, valiant man that when you'll be middle aged that you will beat the crap out of several thugs at the same time. Best of luck with that.

As for how someone is alive without this, that is neither here nor there. I have an acquaintance that was an ex-heroin user. The fact that he is alive doesn't in any way negate the fact that heroin addiction often ends with death.

Frank_M wrote:
Quote:

AlexC wrote:
you can call it anything you want, but for me it's Insurance - just in case. in that one event where there is no other recourse. and I will train at the range and compete in IDPA as much as I can and practice with my firearm. I want to be able to shoot back if I have to. I don't think this is cowardice - it's being prepared.

That?s a good point, we can indeed call it anything we want. Unfortunately, perception is reality. As an example, how does concealed-carry work in the context of a family with children? What?s the teaching point and what?s the result?

The message that carrying a loaded gun in public sends to a child is that other people in the world are so dangerous and threatening that even daddy is frightened of them. Again, you can call it anything you want, but that?s what a child is going to see. And then, at some point in their young lives, they will have to leave the house, alone, without a gun. How confident and safe do you think that kid is going to feel? First he was wrongly taught through observation that he?s in danger, and then is forced to be ?defenseless? against it!

Putting a child in that position is likely to perpetuate a cycle of exaggerated, irrational fear that can have an unhealthy impact on development, attitude, social skills, and world view. Should kids really have to deal with such a enormous burden just because a supposedly mature adult isn?t comfortable enough to walk among us, unarmed? They have enough trouble already with all the distracting nonsense they have to deal with in the modern world.

We can call it preparedness and keeping our children safe, but it's infinitely more likely to do harm rather than good, especially with respect to their mental health.

AlexC wrote:
you can call it anything you want, but for me it's Insurance - just in case. in that one event where there is no other recourse. and I will train at the range and compete in IDPA as much as I can and practice with my firearm. I want to be able to shoot back if I have to. I don't think this is cowardice - it's being prepared.