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NYS would prefer that they had another 50K residents sending kids to school on their dime rather than taking NJ taxpayer money to support their own kids? I don't think so.

yes, nys benefits from nj residents paying tax dollars....but i'm confident nys would prefer that all nj residents working in nys resided in nys. it seems to me that nj's goal should be take make its northern regionand indispensable part of the fabric.

The Wilponzis should pony up money if the tunnel actually starts.

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Never thought I'd say this: Monroe makes a good point.

Again, NY employers benefit from having NJ employees commute, along with NYS which takes taxes from NJ residents who don't impose on fire, police, and education. Take a look at the real estate taxes on Manhattan properties in the Sunday NYTimes-wonder why they're so low compared to the NJ suburbs? Because we're subsidizing them.

A windfall for NYS. NJ resident commuters wash their NYS taxes against their NJ taxes, costing NJ. And the NJ commuters pay tax on their TOTAL family income, not just the amount earned in NY!

And yet some want to let NY keep screwing NJ. If 'Access to the Core' is so vital let NY and the Feds pair their fair share rather than bend NJ over to pay for it.

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In case you haven't noticed, the north Jersey office vacancy rate is between 20% and 30%, with the higher vacancy rates farther from New York City. Midtown is under 10%. Manhattan is adding millions of square feet of office space. That means jobs. Job growth is in the city, not New Jersey. For a variety of reasons, corporations are moving to urban cores, not suburban office parks. Meanwhile, NJ office parks are closing, being sold off, or converted into alternative uses. Over the next decade, another 5 to 7 million square feet office space is going to become available in NYC.

Over the same period, it will be much easier to get from the east into the urban core. The 7 train connection to the Hudson Yards opens next year. Two or three years after that the LIRR will connect to Grand Central. There is already talk of bringing Metro North to Penn Station along the Hudson River. All that means is the suburbs north and east of the job centers in Manhattan will be better connected with faster and easier links to all those high paying jobs. All of those people are NY State residents who don't give a #OOPS# about getting to Secaucus. Nobody wants to spend billions of dollars just to make easier to get to Medieval Times.

Whether or not a tunnel is built, the jobs are coming to New York City.

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the rush hour crowds heading across the Hudson every morning - to work, play, shop - would strongly suggest that you are mistaken.

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NJ residents commuting to work in NY pay a shitload of NYS taxes, and think about the services they consume-breakfast, lunch, dinner, coffee, taxis, haircuts-I could go on for hours.

Expecting NY to not pay their 'fair share' (as the Democrats like to say) is stupid when it comes to partnering on projects that benefit both, and it's not fair as well. Which is why Christie told them to call back when they're ready to be a partner and not a taker of NJ taxpayer money.

ny could get along fine without nj, nj needs ny....another cross Hudson link would only help nj, whatever the costs, and those costs can be amortized over 50nor 100 or 200 years

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Are you kidding? Do you not understand that all those people on the 7 line will be NJ taxpayers, but paying NYS taxes on their income earned in NY, while not being a tax burden for NY schools, police, etc? (Generally office workers aren't criminals). It's a huge plum for NYS.

And your claim about a bi-partisan plan is horsecrap. NJ, for the umpteenth time, was responsible for every red cent of any potential (and look to the East Side MTA tunnel and the Bid Dig in Boston) cost overrun. A total screw job for NJ taxpayers. To the tune of billions of dollars, if history is correct.

You must be one of those self hating NJ residents who likes getting screwed by NY and the Feds when it comes to infrastructure costs.

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Why would New York pay for something that will primarily benefit New Jersey (and if there are casinos, hurt NYC casinos which already have subway access)?

Also, thanks to Christie's cancelling ARC, bridgegate, and using money for the Pulaski, there's a good bet NY won't let funding from the Port Authority be used for such a large project that benefits NJ.

There was a bipartisan plan that would have brought better access to North Jersey and Christie killed it. Live with it.

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If nothing else, it would be a great backup plan for when the seemingly daily signal problems on the PATH mean there's no other way to get home.

If the HBLR had a transfer point with the 7, would it take a significant number of passengers off the PATH?

1-7: It will never happen in our lifetimes.

Considering how little pork we get back from DC I'd say it would be equitable for the Feds to pay half, and the rest broken up equally between NY, NJ, and the Port Authority. Cost overruns would be shared equally.

HASBROUCK HEIGHTS ? The Meadowlands Chamber of Commerce has made the news lately for its big, sexy plans for the Sports Complex, which include up to four casinos.

On Thursday it turned its attention to the relatively drab problem of moving people around, announcing plans to study the economic impact of extending the No. 7 subway line to Secaucus.

Here are 7 things you need to know about the plan.

1. What is the plan?

New York City spent $2 billion to extend the No. 7 subway line from Times Square to the Hudson Yards Development on 34th Street. But former Mayor Michael Bloomberg initally envisioned stretching the line through a new Hudson River tunnel to Secaucus Junction.

Bloomberg is gone, but business leaders like Steven Spinola, president of the Real Estate Board of New York, Jerry Gottesman, chairman of Edison Properties, and now the Meadowlands Chamber, have pushed to make the plan a reality.

"If we brought this transit system to the edge of the Hudson River, it would be such a waste to not bring the No. 7 line," to Secaucus, Spinola said.

2. What are the supposed benefits?

Gottesman's company is funding a $65,000 economic impact study being conducted by the Meadowlands Chamber and the Edward J. Bloustein School of Planning and Public Policy at Rutgers University. In addition to relieving congestion on the existing Hudson crossings, he believes the line will spur economic development in the Meadowlands.

Spinola envisions 30 subway trips per hour between Secaucus and Manhattan, carrying more than 36,000 passengers.

"We cannot let this simple idea, despite its cost, just sit there and not be moved ahead," he said.

3. How much will it cost?

Past estimates put the amount at around $5 billion, but further study is needed for an exact figure.

And after that, it's not clear where the money will come from. The federal and state transportation trust funds are broke or on their way there.

The gas tax, their source of funding, has been sapped by more fuel-efficent vehicles and a generation that doesn't like to drive as much, said John Robert Smith, co-chairman of Transportation for America.

Congress has passed stop-gap measures to keep the federal transportation fund solvent.

"What we need to have is a long-term solution," Smith said.

4. Where is the plan now?

Again, awaiting further study. Supporters hope it can piggyback on Amtrak's Gateway project, another multi-billion dollar plan that includes two new rail tunnels serving an expanded Penn Station.

Funding for Gateway is also up in the air, but there is some urgency to get it done. Drew Galloway, chief of Northeast Corridor Planning and Performance for Amtrak, said the two tracks serving Penn Station have all the traffic they can handle.

"There's no capacity," he said. "Literally there is no room to add traffic for the three- or four-hour peak in the morning and the peak in the afternoon."

In addition, Hurricane Sandy damaged the tunnels to the extent that they'll need major repairs?repairs that will at some point force Amtrak to shut them down. Amtrak President Joe Bordman has said that time would come in as little as 20 years.

Galloway wasn't as bold in giving a timeline, but said Sandy "started a clock."

"It's not a 50- to 100-year problem," he said.

5. Where did this plan come from?

The idea of extending subway service to New Jersey has been around since the 1970s, when the Yankees considered moving to the Meadowlands. But the Bloomberg administration began seriously exploring the No. 7 extension after Gov. Chris Christie's 2010 decision to terminate the planned Access to the Region's Core commuter rail tunnel.

6. Who needs to back this project?

A soup of transit agencies, at the very least including NJ Transit, the Metropolitan Transit Authority and the Port Authority would have to be involved. And that means the project would need the blessing of both state legislatures, both governors and the mayor of New York.

Christie has said he likes the idea. The New Jersey Assembly passed a resolution in support. New York Mayor Bill De Blasio hasn't weighed in. New York Governor Andrew Cuomo's MTA "has shown little interest" in the plan. And the Port Authority has other stuff on its plate, to say the least.

7. When, if ever, will this happen?

The results of the economic impact study should come out in the spring, Jim Kirkos, CEO of the Meadowlands Chamber, said.

After that, Spinola said another, $2 million study would be needed to come up with a solid price tag.

Taken together, Kirkos hopes the numbers can help spur political action on the No. 7 proposal. Then, planning, environmental work and construction could push the completion date another 15 to 20 years out.

But Kirkos said that was no reason to move slowly. Construction costs will only go up with time, he said.

"Having only one tunnel underneath the Hudson to move people by rail?it's not going to work for the 21st, or the 22nd century," he said. "We need to be thinking about this for future generations."

It looks like the train would come into NJ right on the Hoboken/Weehawken border, the perfect place for a stop. Then one in UC and maybe one in North Bergen.

It could really give UC a jump.

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Connecticut politicians versus NJ ones who will want a "cut"

Also, MTA is already linked with NJT on the lines to Rockland/Orange, the issue here crossing the water which involves the PA and their notorious can-do, proactive, cost saving attitude.

If this extension doesn't make any stops in NJ aside from Secaucus it's not worth it. A subway stop in union city would transform that area virtually overnight.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEZjzsnPhnw

the smart thing would be to connect the 7 to the light rail in Union City and then connect this to both Newark and LaGuardia through a mono-rail.

I think it would be a great idea, and hopefully would have at least a couple of stops in the county other than at the transfer station.

Having said that, the MTA has little interest in spending the money on this because it is something that would benefit NJ commuters.

I think that's short sighted, because the new line could generate significant revenue, would allow for a more convenient commute for people on other lines, take cars off the road, benefits employers and businesses in NYC, etc.

And, of course, there is a small reverse commute contingent which could get larger. But right now I don't think the families looking for an easy way to get to Field Station: Dinosaurs are a particularly powerful lobby.

I think since Metro North shares trackage with freight, the cars per Federal rules are already beefed up against collisions.

I know this was an issue with AMTRAK when they proposed the Acela trains. They couldn't buy something from Europe since their train sets were build too light to meet Federal regulations. Therefor, AMTRAK had to have something designed from scratch.

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The MTA operates Metro North, which crosses NY State lines. What's the loophole?

Pre-911, PATH did run non-stop trains from Newark to WTC. PATH will have more capacity available if/when their signal system gets upgraded to the 21st Century. The existing system limits the number of trains that can be run at any one time.

So basically the only stop in NJ would be secaucus train station... that doesnt seem like it would be that beneficial to aleviating path congestion but I might be wrong.

Either way, once another 25k+ apartments come on line within the next 5 years in downtown JC, Jsquare, Newark, and Harrison path ridership along the NWK to WTC and JSQ to 33rd lines will be even more insane. During rush hour trains are already running at near the minimum distance between trains and cars are filled to capacity. Everyone downtown that works in NYC knows that its not uncommon to have to wait for 2, 3, or even 4 trains before its possible to squeeze on. If the path during rush hour is already past 100% capacity... whats the plan for the next 2-10 years? Seems like we need another tunnel and track line... maybe add an express from JSQ to WTC and JSQ to Newport?

The biggest potential stumbling block for this project is the difference between interstate and intrastate transit systems.

The MTA -- because it is wholly contained in New York State -- does not have to abide by the same standards and regulations as does the PATH system -- which must follow stricter standards in many, many ways. For example, PATH trains are something like 2X the weight of MTA subway trains because federal standards for interstate commuter cars require heavier gauge steel.

The good news for NJ commuters is that PATH trains are stronger made than their MTA counterparts. The bad news is that any No 7 extension plan will have to somehow deal with the interstate transit regulations, either by exception or by modifying No 7 trains.

I hope they are able to sort it out. Would be great for NJ, NYC, the world.

Lhota isn't a moron if he's referring to getting to NYC from Secaucus, which is what this proposed train would be doing.

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Agree 1,000,000%. Logic does not apply in the real world.