user1111 wrote:
Easy fix, give another 40 year abatement so peeps can walk to the waterfront. (rolls eyes)

MDM wrote:
Didn't the mall come off abatement some years back? Would be a shame to tear down something that is now paying property taxes instead of a PILOT.

LimpiarElSucio wrote:
Suburban concept... but its in every urban area. The largest retail center in Houston area are 2 malls next to each other smack dab in the middle of the city. Out in LA is "The Grove." Frisco has the embarcadero center. The south street seaport is being transformed in to a mall (for better or worse). Outside of the US, one of the biggest malls in the world is right in the middle of metro manila and there is a giant shopping mall in jerusalem. It may have once been a suburban concept but its rising in popularity in cities...

I dont think demolishing and rebuilding a mall to accommodate 2 cross streets is a good use of eminent domain and a half billion in expenses and lost revenue.

As for a store like H&M not chosing to open in the mall. There was ample space they could have rented on grove square that sat vacant for 10 years or in the trump building that they could of rented... but they chose the mall... I have a feeling they know what they are doing

tommyc_37 wrote:
As of New Year's, I've been going on regular 2-4 mile jogs, and since Liberty State Park isn't very accessible from downtown, I've been sticking to the waterfront and throughout the neighborhoods of DTJC.

One thing that strikes me the most is how the Newport Mall, almost obnoxiously, completely cuts off the waterfront from the rest of downtown. For a pedestrian, there is no easy way to get from the Hudson River to Hamilton Park, for example. What a sin! The mall and it's behemoth parking structure are a manmade barrier.

I understand that when Newport was built, the rest of Jersey City was viewed as undesirable. But are we now stuck with the mall forever? I've lived here for 7 years and it seems to me that Jersey City sees the value in new urbanism, the focus on the pedestrian, etc etc. I wonder if there are any way to "urbanize" the existing Newport Mall? Is the mall a financial success, overall? In our lifetimes, is there a chance that the mall will be demolished in favor of smarter development?

Similarly, I think the Metro Plaza parking lot is an awful "barrier" to the waterfront. It's ironic that an open space can be a barrier, but it really is not inviting to pedestrians. There has to be a better way to integrate the wonderful neighborhoods of Downtown with the waterfront. I have heard (on this site) that there are plans to develop the Metro Plaza lot, but are they realistic?

LimpiarElSucio wrote:
Suburban concept... but its in every urban area. The largest retail center in Houston area are 2 malls next to each other smack dab in the middle of the city. Out in LA is "The Grove." Frisco has the embarcadero center. The south street seaport is being transformed in to a mall (for better or worse). Outside of the US, one of the biggest malls in the world is right in the middle of metro manila and there is a giant shopping mall in jerusalem. It may have once been a suburban concept but its rising in popularity in cities...

I dont think demolishing and rebuilding a mall to accommodate 2 cross streets is a good use of eminent domain and a half billion in expenses and lost revenue.

As for a store like H&M not chosing to open in the mall. There was ample space they could have rented on grove square that sat vacant for 10 years or in the trump building that they could of rented... but they chose the mall... I have a feeling they know what they are doing

ActionDan wrote:
Quote:

Jersey City sees the value in new urbanism, the focus on the pedestrian, etc etc.

I might reject this premise. JC still seems mostly designed for cars and in many places downright hostile to pedestrians.

Some of the most populated areas even in Downtown (thinking Grand and Columbus here) are basically highways and I struggle to think of a single example of anything the city's done to become more pedestrian-friendly.

5 blocks of bike lanes after like all of Manhattan, Brooklyn, Hoboken et alia are already painted over with bike lanes is a minor effort, in the scheme of things.

LimpiarElSucio wrote:
Suburban concept... but its in every urban area. The largest retail center in Houston area are 2 malls next to each other smack dab in the middle of the city. Out in LA is "The Grove." Frisco has the embarcadero center. The south street seaport is being transformed in to a mall (for better or worse). Outside of the US, one of the biggest malls in the world is right in the middle of metro manila and there is a giant shopping mall in jerusalem. It may have once been a suburban concept but its rising in popularity in cities...

I dont think demolishing and rebuilding a mall to accommodate 2 cross streets is a good use of eminent domain and a half billion in expenses and lost revenue.

As for a store like H&M not chosing to open in the mall. There was ample space they could have rented on grove square that sat vacant for 10 years or in the trump building that they could of rented... but they chose the mall... I have a feeling they know what they are doing

LimpiarElSucio wrote:
Suburban concept... but its in every urban area. The largest retail center in Houston area are 2 malls next to each other smack dab in the middle of the city. Out in LA is "The Grove." Frisco has the embarcadero center.

Jersey City sees the value in new urbanism, the focus on the pedestrian, etc etc.

tommyc_37 wrote:
Let me make my point more clear, I think it is useful to have some of the retail options that are available in Newport Mall, I just think that in the 2013 version of Jersey City, there can be a better use of that space. In 1987, I'm sure Newport Mall was viewed as a Godsend. But remember, urban living was not very popular in 1987.

I don't HATE the mall (I don't particularly like it either, but I do go there a couple of times a year if I need something in a pinch). It's just that having a suburban-style mall smack dab in the densest neighborhood of the nation's 2nd densest city seems like a colossal misuse of space.

The concept of a mall is a suburban concept, conceived as a direct result of the suburban boom of the 1950s and based around lots of space, highways, and most importantly CARS and parking. The original concept of a mall was a transformation of "Main Street" retail. A place where people can drive in with their cars, have ample parking, and once parked have access to many different stores in one central location.

In a dense, walkable, city environment, do we really need the "Main Street reinvented" model? We have population scale/density, walkability, as well as organic "Main Streets" (Newark Ave, Grove Street, Jersey Ave, etc), so why do we need a massive building with parking to provide retail shopping?

Just trying to think creatively here ... this may be a stretch but, conceptually, what about transforming the footprint of the mall building/parking structure into a street-grid, and give all of the retailers who are currently renting spaces in the mall the option of having a storefront on street level? I don't know much about the business side of brick and mortar retail, but do you think retailers (say, H&M) would do better or worse with that setup versus the current setup?

Anyway, my original question in this post was, do you ever see the space that the mall occupies being transformed, as a result of the continually changing demographic and lifestyle of downtown residents? Some of you guys engaged in the discussion with intelligent and relevant answers but many others replied with rather nasty, irrelevant, and/or vague replies :)

SRhia wrote:
Can you elaborate where this gravel path is? is this where the old crooked bridge used to be? I'm dying to take my kids to Liberty State Park on bikes - now that the weather is finally better (and DTJC streets is so dangerous for kids to bike around)! Appreciate it.

Quote:

Frinjc wrote:
As for the access to LSP, I did a run last sunday from DTJC to Ellis Island and back using the gravel path by the soon-to-be replaced-we-hope bridge around Morris Canal. Following this, a concrete slab and a path carved in the vegetation, one can relatively quickly access the other end. This little loop did not add much work to my run and there were skateboarders and a few people including bikers, it is starting to be known.

tommyc_37 wrote:
...I understand that when Newport was built, the rest of Jersey City was viewed as undesirable. But are we now stuck with the mall forever? I've lived here for 7 years and it seems to me that Jersey City sees the value in new urbanism, the focus on the pedestrian, etc etc. I wonder if there are any way to "urbanize" the existing Newport Mall? Is the mall a financial success, overall? In our lifetimes, is there a chance that the mall will be demolished in favor of smarter development?

...There has to be a better way to integrate the wonderful neighborhoods of Downtown with the waterfront.

RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
Great to have the convenience of some pretty solid stores, CVS, the food court.