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Re: PRESERVATION OF POWERHOUSE TO BEGIN
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Home away from home
 
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all of you with your head in the sand screaming preservation without the slightest clue what's going on, let me give you a reality check:
1) Restoration officially "broke ground" in 2009, 5 years and millions of tax payer dollar later, all we are left with is a garbage dump and a brick shell with boarded windows that is falling apart every day. The roof is completely gone, there is no weather proofing, the interiors are fully exposed and deteriorating. 2) To successfully restore this brick shell: a) PA needs to signoff b) path transformers need to be moved to the triangle with a new structure built to enclose it c) all those gigantic windows need to be replaced d) new roof installed e) interior gut renovation to make it safe f) major cleanup outside and structure reinforced 3) The structure as it stands today is extremely unsafe, especially given the waterfront location and hurricane/storms we have. The potential of a collapse is very real, on top of damaging the path transformers, creating a major incident. 4) It will cost decades and tens of millions more of taxpayer money to successfully complete this project, at best estimate with the funds available, and with JC/PA support (which is nonexistent currently). Meanwhile all the residents nearby have to live with this unsafe garbage dump everyday. So get off your high horse, i am all for preservation but not at the expense of safety and living conditions, and this is not the sistine chapel we are talking about here. Level the damn thing before it collapses, put a grass field and some flower beds and call it a day.
Posted on: 2014/5/13 21:27
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Home away from home
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I don't think it's necessarily beyond repair. I think it's beyond repair in a way that would be financially feasible, given the constraints on post-restoration use of the building being placed by political and community figures. ("Community space" is just grossly unrealistic.)
I do think that the gridlock generated by that mismatch of cost and political/community demands will prevent any development before it actually is beyond repair. We haven't reached that point yet, but as it becomes more expensive to develop with each passing year, development becomes less and less likely. Thus, that it will still be a rotting hulk in 2024, and by then a truly unsalvageable one, seems the most likely result to me.
Posted on: 2014/5/13 19:51
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Re: PRESERVATION OF POWERHOUSE TO BEGIN
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Home away from home
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Conformist, you make some sound points regarding the financial feasibility of a Powerhouse renovation. However, I don't believe, from a structural standpoint, anyone here is in a position to declare the Powerhouse unsalvageable. That determination could only be made by architects and engineers who have done an on-site evaluation.
So far, a significant amount of money has been invested in shoring up the structure and removing the smokestacks (which were actually deemed unsalvageable by professionals). I can't imagine these investment would have been made if, at the time, the structure was hopeless. I understand that several years have passed and the building has deteriorated, but, as a layman, I'm not ready to accept the assumption that it's beyond repair. I just don't think such pessimism is warranted. I hold out hope that with a little political will and creativity, coupled with the large amount of money pouring into DTJC, the Powerhouse can be saved. The last thing anyone wants is another shiny, glass-and-steel high rise in that area. BTW, I believe City Hall's official line is that it's the Port Authority which is holding the renovation up by dragging its feet on relocating the power station located behind the Powerhouse.
Posted on: 2014/5/13 19:25
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Home away from home
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I generally am in favor of historic preservation, and I do think the Powerhouse could be an attractive addition to downtown Jersey City. Certainly I agree with others that Newport Mall, etc. also ought to be torn down. (There are a long list of downtown projects, mostly stupid '80-'90s developments, that I could list for demolition.)
However, there are some significant problems at the moment, and it may be that tearing it down is the only realistic possibility at this point. The building has been allowed to deteriorate significantly--partially due to major failures during the Healey administration--but what's done is done. Restoration would be dramatically more expensive today than it would have been in 2006. Moreover, the demands the community is placing on what is "appropriate" for the building further constrain what is realistic. "Community space" and "artist studios" and the like may sound great, but they don't make money, certainly not enough to cover the costs associated with servicing debt taken on in restoring the building. Additionally, the variety of demands from preservation advocates (no punching windows, no opening the ground floor up for street retail, etc.) make the challenge even greater. The only type of development in Jersey City right now that can make the kind of money that would actually be able to pay for redevelopment is residential (with ground-floor street retail). The Powerhouse as it exists is not terrifically well-suited for development as residential space (few locations for windows, oversized floorplate, etc.), but it could be done. In any case, there's a lot of opposition to its redevelopment as private residential lofts, mainly due to a sense that the Powerhouse is a community asset. We can say that the city should undertake the immense cost of restoration and then also run the resulting facility at a loss for the foreseeable future for the benefit of the community, but political leaders are understandably wary of taking on what would really be a significant drag on the city's budget. They also won't find any easy financing partners because that's not a project anyone in the private sector would touch with a ten-foot pole. We shall see. It seems most likely, however, that the Powerhouse is too far gone to be economical to save. Even if it, community opposition to the one use that might be economical, residential, means residential development won't happen, either. As a result, the Powerhouse is likely to sit and rot until the building has decayed so much that even the most zealous preservation advocates can't disagree with tearing it down because it will be obviously and totally unsalvageable. That's unfortunate, but it's the reality of things.
Posted on: 2014/5/13 18:55
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Home away from home
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they tore down the original Penn station, and now the authorities are trying to build something similar/grand out of the moynihan station
Posted on: 2014/5/13 18:03
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Home away from home
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Is there any updated timeline for the restoration of the Powerhouse? Not for nothing, but I have been hearing about this since I moved here in May, 2006, exactly 8 years ago!
Posted on: 2014/5/13 15:27
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Newbie
 
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2014/5/5 15:43 Last Login : 2015/2/27 20:26 From Woodbridge, NJ
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The Powerhouse IS historic. We are too quick to tear down anything that isn't new and shiny. Restoring the Powerhouse will only add to the property values of the surrounding neighborhood. It would be a landmark pointed to with pride.
It is historic simply because it is the last example of Jersey City's former industrial, waterfront might; and it is a type of building that simply isn't built anymore. Perhaps we should also demolish the Hoboken Terminal because it is old? While we're at it, let's tear down Grand Central Station. It's old and wastes space. Some people are theatened by fine old historic buildings. They tend to think that they are living in the best of eras, and don't want to be reminded that past eras might have been just as good or better in some respects than the present. By the way, the State Theatre wasn't being restored when it was being "worked on." It was being demolished, and then the collapse occurred. The State Theatre was built like Fort Knox--until it was "messed with." The Loew's is also historic. Look at what they are doing with the Loew's Jersey's sister theatre in Brooklyn, the Kings Theatre. We should follow their example. If you want a city that has no examples of history and could be "Anywhere, USA" move to Houston or San Diego; or even the Jersey suburbs. --A Jersey City Native of long standing.
Posted on: 2014/5/13 15:21
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Home away from home
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i echo the sentiment that the powerhouse is a jewel best preserved. A+ for the suggestion about a bowling alley
Posted on: 2014/5/13 13:56
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Just can't stay away
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The Powerhouse is a great building. I live in the Dixon Mills building and I can tell you, after moving from a cookie cutter development, it was welcome change. Today's construction is shoddy and you just won't get "real" construction like the power house and the Dixon Mills building anymore. Not to mention the death of the brick structure. If you don't like, you are most certainly welcome to a) move to an apt that doesn't overlook it or b) leave.
The Powerhouse should be made into a community center with a climbing wall and a bowling alley, art galleries, hopefully a Chelsea Market style market or even a Whole Foods or Trader Joe's. This will be a great addition to the neighborhood.
Posted on: 2014/5/13 12:59
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Home away from home
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Wow. I cant believe how many people on this thread have such a myopic, poor sense of what to do to benefit the neighborhood and city in general. I agree the project is lagging, but its a big job to stabilize the building which has been abandoned for decades. You really think tearing it down and replacing the lot with another cookie cutter condo tower is the best answer for the future of the city? Look around. Its one of the few structures that actually has some character and history left downtown. Thank God none of you have any clout in what the city actually does. Hopefully someone in charge has a better vision for where this city is headed. Tear down the mall if youre going to tear anything down in the downtown area. That thing is a TRUE eyesore.
Posted on: 2014/5/13 12:26
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Just can't stay away
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I saw some firefighters inspecting it today from a distance. Some of the belts holding up parts of it was snapped and I saw a huge crack by the roof going down.
Posted on: 2014/5/13 5:34
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Re: Will the powerhouse ever be completed? (Councilwoman Osborne / Mayor Fluop)?
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Home away from home
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First, it's not a warehouse - it's the former power source for the PATH train. All those electric transformers (?) are currently powering the PATH (west side of powerhouse). Once Port Authority moves those transformers to the triangular lot to the north - within a six-story building (that's what planning board approved) and functioning - then and only then the redevelopment can start - right now they are trying to keep it from deteriorating further. But you already know that.
You should be directing this question to our friends at Port Authority, not JC officials. They're are the ones that could plant grass and landscape the triangle until they are ready to build. PANYNJ is not monitoring jclist. Send a letter - ask it to be part of the record, read at next meeting (if that's even possible) - maybe they'll address the timeline. Issue a complaint/work order to RRC if you think the lot looks messy. Be pro-active if you see a problem. http://www.cityofjerseycity.com/administration.aspx?id=1204 and follow up with complaint if you don't see progress. Quote:
Posted on: 2014/3/15 22:35
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Re: Will the powerhouse ever be completed? (Councilwoman Osborne / Mayor Fluop)?
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Newbie
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I live right across the powerhouse and walk across the power house art district very often. Seeing it everyday from my window, I can't help but hate the building in front of me. I live high enough to see the top of the building and it is a complete mess. I would rather prefer to see some green space or even just a regular residential building there. is it even commercially viable trying to develop the building into some useful structure? Tear it down if all people do is to wait until the inevitable happens.
Posted on: 2014/3/15 15:36
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Will the powerhouse ever be completed? (Councilwoman Osborne / Mayor Fluop)?
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Home away from home
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Hi Mayor Fulop and Councilwoman Osborne,
Is there a plan in place to finish the art power house restore project by washington blvd/2nd street? I have watched over the last FIVE years the money wasted in on/off projects trying to board up the windows(dont they all need to removed again?), then take down the smoke stacks, then the roof etc.. This warehouse right now is nothing but a broken shell left, with no windows, no roof, no interior, all its original characteristic including the smoke stacks gone. I understand in order to move forward the path transformers will need to be relocated which is owned by port authority. This site as well as the triangle area in front of it right now is a complete garbage dump, in the literal sense - right in the middle of a heavy residential area with apartments all around. I am all for preserving historical structures, but maybe it's time to rethink this plan and just demolish this old warehouse, put a structure to cover the transformers, cleanup all the garbage, and turn both the warehouse site and the triangle area in front into a simple grass field. God knows we need more green space around the area. I am very hopeful with the old guards gone, mayor fulop and the new administration can finally do something to complete this eyesore and dangerous site right in the middle of a heavily populated residential area. PS I tried to reach out to JC redevelopment agency over the years, but they never tells me anything just stating the plan is ongoing. Thank you
Posted on: 2014/3/14 16:34
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Re: PRESERVATION OF POWERHOUSE TO BEGIN
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Land development is far more a matter of business than it is of politics. The economy has not been right for any major development since 2008 but that seems to be changing quickly. I believe the city did have some leverage over the developer of the Monaco and gave them an ultimatum to build or lose some variance or abatement. So that building was built despite the economy.
Posted on: 2013/3/18 2:02
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Home away from home
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Quote:
ah thanks yes that's exactly the area i was referring to 110 first street. So even though there are a lot of activities, they are not actually building anything there yet? this lot is such an eyesore, at this point in my personal opinion anything there is better than what it looks like now, heck even just a concrete parking lot would be a big improvement. how can the city let something in this condition sit in a in-demand valuable area for years without any plan is beyond my understanding of politics. If it was sold to a developer force them to build it per the original agreement or take it back, if the city owns it then auction it off to someone to build there and collect taxes from it.
Posted on: 2013/3/17 19:37
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Home away from home
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They are going to have to remove the smokestacks from the Powerhouse because they were recently determined to be unstable. I imagine that is what the activity you mention is about.
Posted on: 2013/3/17 18:36
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Re: PRESERVATION OF POWERHOUSE TO BEGIN
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Home away from home
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The lot west of Powerhouse is 111 First Street. Google it and you find out the history of this lot and that fact that the promised building by notorious architect Rem Koolhaas has failed to materialize since the announcement in 2007 (crap deal made by our current mayor.) The piles of stacked bricks are promised to be used in the new building - should it ever be built.
You MUST have notice that steel poles disappearing from 111 First lot and being carried over and then driven into the ground across the street at 110 First Street (google it). They just had the ceremony last week - with the mayor in attendance. The Butler Brothers building is still stagnant because the owner seems to fail to do anything reasonable to get it occupied. Very sad. The triangular lot north of Powerhouse is where Port Authority will eventually move it's power equipment - upgraded to the 21st century. if you read through the following blog: http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3795&page=256 you should find the answers to a lot of your questions.
Posted on: 2013/3/17 18:11
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Home away from home
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hi does anyone know
1) what work is being done on the powerhouse? i see there are finally activities again - building temporary stair cases to the roof and trucks with materials piling it on the side. What are they doing exactly? 2) the weed filled lot directly west of the powerhouse where there were stashes of brick and metal bars is now also full of activities, they had bulldozers there making some sort of circle. Same question does anyone what they are building there? i wish there is an easy way to get informed of what's going on around the area, as I see both sites out of my window but noone seem to know what they are doing. thanks
Posted on: 2013/3/17 17:10
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Re: Powerhouse Revitalization
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Just can't stay away
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Latest story I've seen was back in October in the Hudson Reporter.
They're going to have to demolish the stacks, which are too damaged from neglect.
Posted on: 2013/3/15 19:53
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Powerhouse Revitalization
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Home away from home
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I haven't heard anything about the Powerhouse in a while. Is there any kind of timetable for the revitalization, or is it still all conceptual at this point? Is anything actually going to happen with it?
Posted on: 2013/3/15 17:44
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Three smokestacks on historic Powerhouse building in Downtown Jersey City get inspection
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Home away from home
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Three smokestacks on historic Powerhouse building in Downtown Jersey City get inspection
Published: Friday, March 16, 2012, 3:00 AM By The Jersey Journal  VERTICAL ACCESS employed a specialized crane to inspect the massive smokestacks of the Powerhouse building in Downtown Jersey City. City officials intend to transform the building, which currently houses transformers for the PATH train, into an arts mecca. A specialized crane was employed last month so experts could assess the condition of the massive smokestacks on the Powerhouse building on Washington Street in Downtown Jersey City. The inspection of the three smokestacks by Vertical Access, a company that specializes in engineering studies for hard-to-reach places, was conducted on Feb. 17. ?The crane used by Vertical Access is one of only three in the world and the only one in the United States,? said Robert Antonicello, executive director of the Jersey City Redevelopment Agency. The Powerhouse, which houses a PATH substation, will be the center of a $100 million project the JCRA is developing as an arts, entertainment and cultural destination, city officials have said. The JCRA is looking to take ownership of the more than 100-year-old building from the Port Authority this year. Because of the deteriorated condition of the building?s roof, the smokestacks, which rise more than 200 feet into the air, have been off limits and impossible to reach from the roof. ?Ascertaining the present condition of the smokestacks was a critical element in preparing for a new roof,? Antonicello said. A report to inform the JCRA and the developer if the smokestacks can be stabilized, and if so at what cost, is expected by the end of this month, city officials said, noting the inspection cost: $32,000. Work to transform the building into an arts mecca is scheduled to begin this year and will take several years to complete, Antonicello said.
Posted on: 2012/3/16 16:14
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Jersey City Takes A Flying Leap Toward Powerhouse Renovation
March 9, 2012 - GlobeSt.com By Antoinette Martin JERSEY CITY-A crucial step toward stabilization and redevelopment of the downtown Powerhouse structure was achieved as a specialized engineering firm using the tallest available crane accomplished inspection of 200-foot tall smokestacks in anticipation of installing a new roof below them. ?Today was a milestone for both the Powerhouse and all those concerned about this magnificent structure,? says Bob Antonicello, the Jersey City Redevelopment Agency?s executive director, when the specialized crane arrived two weeks ago. The 1908 Powerhouse, which houses a PATH substation, is envisioned as iconic centerpiece for a $100 million redevelopment project creating an arts and entertainment district in and around the building. The area is to have shops, markets, galleries, performance space and ?alternative? office space in a pedestrian-friendly environment, according to the plans. The first step, though was JCRA launching a multi-year program to stop further deterioration of the long-abandoned structure, which despite its inherent Romanesque Revival-style glory had become an eyesore with large trees growing out the windows and a crumbling roof. Over two years, all of the building?s monumental windows were boarded and sealed. The issue then became, according to agency project manager Mary Noonan: ?How could we find out if the smokestacks were in good enough shape to proceed with replacing the roof?? Beyer, Blinder, Belle, the New York-based architect for the project, brought in an engineering group called Vertical Access, which used a crane that is one of three in the world, and the only one of its size in the United States. Engineers aboard the crane conducted visual and camera inspections of both the exterior and interior of the towering stacks, Noon said. They are expected to report the results to the agency next month. The enormous brick structure, situated near the 55-story Trump Plaza Residences tower built in 2008, was originally the powerhouse for the Hudson & Manhattan. The JRCA and the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey are working on an agreement that would transfer full ownership of the building to the agency in return for a replacement site for the PATH substation. http://www.globest.com/news/12_303/ne ... se-Renovation-319483.html
Posted on: 2012/3/10 5:19
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Just can't stay away
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Xerxes,
I have yet to talk to a person in the Paulus Hook area that isn't excited for the Powerhouse to be restored and turned into a mixed-use facility with stores, entertainment, and restaurants. Obviously it is going to take a number of years, but it will happen. Your claim that once it is strengthened and restored it's going to fall down is laughable, and frankly moronic. I'm sorry you can't grasp the meaning of the word "historic" and the importance of buildings on the National Register of Historic Places. You're right, the Powerhouse was a very insignificant building. The Hudson and Manhattan railroads that were powered by it really had no impact on this area. I hear they were only used for rich people to go on "Murder Mystery" train rides once a week. I frequently work with architects on projects, and I've talked to a few of them about the Powerhouse. They agree that it is a very beautiful building architecturally, which is rare for a powerhouse, and is just one more reason for it to be restored. Make no mistake about it, if it does fall or get knocked down, there is absolutely no chance it's going to be replaced by a park, and I guarantee the building that replaces it is not going to be anywhere near as nice as its current form.
Posted on: 2010/6/1 14:13
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Re: PRESERVATION OF POWERHOUSE TO BEGIN
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Home away from home
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It is not historic but merely old regardless of the fact that a couple misguided preservationsists petitioned to save it along with the even stupider old wall called THE EMBANKMENT.
There are people who would consider old trolley tracks HISTORIC long after the trolleys are gone. To some people it seems that it is INCONCEIVABLE that they live in an area where there is NOTHING to save so save something they MUST. The Embankment and the Powerhouse were part of an abandoned railyard. An abandoned railyard, like a City Dump, has only one function...to be cleaned up of every bit of garbage and rebuilt. To be HISTORIC it needs to be a little more than old and long past it's only purpose, a purely utilitarian one, keeping rain off electrical equipment. Saving this heap is akin to saving the old fuse box when your house is rewired with modern circuit breakers. Watch and wait, as soon as restoration is begun, if EVER that is to happen, it will collapse...which will be fine as long as nobody is killed. That's exactly what they did with the STATE THEATER, a lovely old building worth saving. "Oops" said the developer...but then quietly "but now at least I have the LOT." As for its uses, does anyone think we need more RETAIL space in preference to parkland? Another strip mall perhaps? Another Home Depot, Kohl's, Macy's, Sears, Penney's, Armani Emporium, Another Food Court, an 18 screen cinema showing the same garbage as the Loew's Cineplex Odious, a cutesy food outlet selling tomatoes for $3 apiece? Or are we going to continue to make believe there is an artist district in place? The artists are LONG gone, priced out of the market by dilettants whose pleasure comes from trying to memorialize detritus. Jackie Kennedy wanna-be's. The Powerhouse is old, and delapidated, nothing more. Get rid of it and give people and their kids someplace they can enjoy like a park. Or will we be forced to go on for ANOTHER ten years yammering about preserving it while it sits there and gets 10 years MORE decrepit. Take a look back at the other "preservations" that have been done. ONE: LOEW'S JERSEY CITY. And it was done/is being done by volunteers. So anyone interested in saving this mess should come down with a bucket of mortar and start slathering it on. Get your friends and be ready to work for 20 years. If you are waiting for the bankrupt city or state to do the job you will wait a long time. If you wait for a developer to do it, you will wait FOREVER. Same goes for the fabulous Embankment and the glorious bike trail jokingly called THE ARCHES. Imagine, a lousy bike trail that reuires only some macadam and even THAT gets nothing but talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. You are living in Jersey City...get used to it.
Posted on: 2010/6/1 13:05
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Home away from home
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Things we've learned from Xerxes....
1. The Powerhouse, notwithstanding its listing on the National Register of Historic places, has no historic significance. 2. Newport is a dynamic community with great restaurants and retail. Just go to the mall!
Posted on: 2010/6/1 12:53
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Just can't stay away
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Quote:
If you don't consider it historic, then you should go check a dictionary for the definition. It was a very important building in the past, which coincidentally, is the definition of historic. I guess its inclusion on the National Register of Historical Places is a typo, so you should contact them and let them know. Again, if you're looking for buildings in Jersey City to be knocked down to build parks, you need to reevaluate your priorities and consider moving elsewhere.
Posted on: 2010/6/1 2:40
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Home away from home
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Really? It's a fairly historic building It is NOT historic but purely functional in it's time with no function today. It was built to keep rain off huge generators to power the electric railroad under the Hudson. It is not historic, merely OLD, the only relic of the devastated wasteland the railroads left when they went bell up. Clearing out detritus allowed for waterfront housing. There is only one piece of detritus East of Washington Boulevard left, the falling down generator cover, wasting space that the community could use if it were torn down and made into a park. They got rid of the generators long ago, so it's sole function is gone. It is no more historic than an ugly old tarpaulin somebody would keep after he tore out his pool. Probably the only reason the building is still standing is that the city cannot find the money to tear it down. It is cheaper to leave the ugly blight in place.
Posted on: 2010/5/30 15:03
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Home away from home
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I was just in Dubai in April. They changed the name to honor Sheikh Khalifa of Abu Dhabi - "Thanks for the cash, big guy." It is a funky looking building. Kind of an upside-down icicle. It was closed to the public though, due to elevator problems, so I couldn't get in there.
Posted on: 2010/5/28 16:17
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Re: PRESERVATION OF POWERHOUSE TO BEGIN
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Just can't stay away
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Good call, I didn't realize it was officially named something else.
Posted on: 2010/5/28 4:38
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