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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
 
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2008/1/3 19:12 Last Login : 2020/9/30 18:46 From Van Vorst Park
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I strongly agree with Ianmac. The restaurant row ordinance for Newark Ave/Grove Street is really hindering development there. I guess I just don't understand what the fundamental problem is with a few more bars on Newark Avenue. I honestly can't think of any city of 250,000 people that does NOT have a district where there is a main drag of bars and restaurants.
Now, my opinion is coming from somebody who DOES enjoy going to a bar on Fridays or Saturdays. I understand that there are many people who DON'T do this. But to my eye, it seems that the demographic of Downtown JC is skewing towards younger, not older.
Posted on: 2011/3/4 15:56
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Quote:
I think the sentiment is that, the building that housed Barrow Street Bar was ALWAYS a bar. So if somebody is particularly averse to living near a bar, there are many thousands of other houses in downtown JC that are NOT within 100-200 feet of that bar. It'd be one thing if one day, a bar magically appeared in the neighborhood, shocking people and disturbing them. Like Corybraiterman, I think bars sprinkled throughout urban neighborhoods add charm. It's not as if every corner in JC has a bar - it is not even CLOSE to that. I don't understand the grouchiness on this site - do you really think East Village residents complain about bars nestled in their neighborhood?
Posted on: 2011/3/4 15:48
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Skinners, LITM, and Sawadee Thai all have liquor licenses. But they are also restaurants. Initially, restaurant row restricted alcohol sales after 11, but was later changed to 2am (3am on Friday and Saturday) to fall in line with other bars. However, they are all required to serve food, and I believe a certain percentage of sales must also be food. But that's just the thing. Sawadee is a restaurant-- not the sort of place anyone is going to show up to for a few cocktails. Even Skinners Loft is very clearly predominantly a restaurant, and the small bar area on the ground floor is just that-- small. What do none of these three restaurants have? A pool table. A jukebox. Live music. A dance floor. And with the exception LITM, they don't have people under the age of 30. And yet, the whole south of Newark avenue is either office space or vacant; its not a residential neighborhood like the corner of Barrow and Mercer. If there was any place in the city to have loud music, late night drinking, and young people, it would be Newark Avenue where there are few residences. If Skinner's Loft were in the Barrow Street bar location, would there have been any complaints from the residents? Last time I checked, pudgy middled age white men only get rowdy cheering for their twelve year old's soccer team. But Barrow Street Bar couldn't have opened on Newark Avenue in any form resembling what it was because it wouldn't have met the restaurant requirements imposed by restaurant row legislation.
Posted on: 2011/3/4 15:15
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Quote:
That's exactly the point. A restaurant is not a bar. A bar is not a restaurant. A restaurant with a liquor license would probably have done very in the Barrow Street location without disturbing the neighbors nearly as often. The Barrow Street bar, if it had been on Newark Avenue, would have disturbed many fewer people simply because there are many fewer people living on Newark Avenue. And yet here is the disconnect in the zoning and licensing. The city is preventing bars from opening in commercial districts by imposing restaurant requirements on them.
Posted on: 2011/3/4 14:54
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Agreed. Otherwise how do explain Skinner's Loft being able to open a resto-bar less than 50 feet from LITM.
Posted on: 2011/3/4 14:23
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Do you, or have you ever lived within 100 feet of a bar?
Posted on: 2011/3/4 14:05
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Personally, I like seeing small bars/restaurants interspersed throughout the neighborhood. I think they add flavor to a place that would otherwise be a little boring. Not to say that it has to be every single corner, like the exaggerators here would like to say, but here and there, interspersed like trees in a field. After all, who here really has any problem with places like Lucky 7s, White Star, Hamilton Inn or the dive bars on places like Coles & 6th, 1st and Erie, etc.
As far as Barrow St goes, I remember going to that place with my dad 25 some-odd years ago when we lived over on Wayne (still a crime hotspot back then). It was a decent little place to go every now and then, so I'm kinda sad to see it go even though I haven't been in there in at least a decade. Good luck in a better location.
Posted on: 2011/3/4 4:48
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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something is getting muddled here - "restaurant row" on Newark and Grove Streets has no "proximity" restrictions/limitations. bars with the required food service/kitchens are permitted elbow to elbow in this area.
in other areas of the city, I believe the distance requirement is 300' min.
Posted on: 2011/3/4 3:58
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Just can't stay away
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the restriction on proximity of bars on newark and grove is idiotic. that should be revisited.
Posted on: 2011/3/4 3:23
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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2007/10/9 19:48 Last Login : 2013/2/18 15:54 From Van Vorst Park
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+1 ianmac get's it. Chris- Will miss you at Barrow. Hope you open a new place soon. I'll be there for opening night.
Posted on: 2011/3/4 2:07
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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There are a number of problems with Jersey City and bars. For one, New Jersey has a great deal of restrictions on liquor licenses, and there simply are not enough licenses available -- which ultimately makes licenses more expensive, like a commodity. Since the license to serve alcohol is so expensive, that puts a lot of pressure to chase quick and easy profits rather than longer term strategies.
Second, Jersey City has also instituted restrictions on bars in proximity to each in a misguided effort to prevent the Hobokenization of Newark Avenue / Grove Street. This hasn't helped the redevelopment of Newark avenue. Finally, bars and residential neighborhoods can coexist. It happens all the time in Manhattan. Admittedly, bars have become more intrusive to residential neighborhoods ever since indoor smoking bans went into effect thus pushing patrons outdoors, but that is a separate issue. The bigger problem is issues one and two, where a finite number of liquor licenses and restrictions on where bars can exist all contribute to the problem.
Posted on: 2011/3/4 1:48
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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[img][/img]
Posted on: 2011/3/3 23:23
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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I wish that I understood why the standard response to anyone who expresses an opinion about improving local quality of life is "if you don't like it, move to the suburbs." I don't equate a bar in a residential neighborhood with the definition of a city.
I believe that what some of the posters are saying is go one block west to Jersey Avenue's commercial strip, or one block east to Grove Street or three blocks north to Newark Avenue and you've got many great options from which to choose. I LOVE going to bars and restaurants but I don't believe that they need to be on every corner of the city. The reason that zoning laws exist is to protect the integrity of a city or town as well as its residents. Unfortunately, our city government manipulates the zoning ordinances to suit their own purposes and fill their own wallets. I applaud the OP and his efforts to do his best in that spot and I wish him well wherever he lands. If another bar does open on that corner, I hope that the next owner is as conscientious.
Posted on: 2011/3/3 23:08
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
Joined:
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For a city of it's size, Jersey City has very few bars, so I really don't understand what the fuss is about. That location has been a bar for many years. If you don't like living near a bar, move one or two blocks away.
I'm saddened by Barrow's closing, and I hope another bar opens up in the space. It's good to have a place in the neighborhood to occasionally watch a game with your neighbors. A bar belongs there.
Posted on: 2011/3/3 22:26
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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BOOOOOO!!!!! If you don't want neighborhood bars, move to the suburbs. A bar on every corner isn't something that anyone wants, but I think the city loses character (and becomes more like the suburbs) every time a neighborhood bar, restaurant, retail store, or bodega closes.
Posted on: 2011/3/3 22:00
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Just can't stay away
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Thanks for letting me know that hipsters hanging around drunken stumblebum equals *vibrancy*.
Posted on: 2011/3/3 21:56
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Just can't stay away
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Quote:
***MORE APPLAUSE***
Posted on: 2011/3/3 18:03
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Quote:
***APPLAUSE***
Posted on: 2011/3/3 15:43
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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What is the fascination with bars with you people? There are plenty of bars around the downtown area. Are they packed to the rafters? No, so what's the problem? I used to hang out with a friend sometimes who could never be happy in any bar. "Lets go somewhere else, this place sucks". It would go on and on in a fruitless search for a "cool" bar. It's the "grass is always greener" syndrome. Just go to a place and sit and relax and enjoy yourself. If you think that someone is going to build a bar to your specs you are hopelessly lost. LITM seems like a perfectly fine bar as does Skinner's, White Star, etc. Have you checked the crime blotter in Hoboken lately? Drunk d-bag smashing windows at City Hall, guy punches girl in face etc. Is that really what you want? A bar on every corner would mean complete disruption of our neighborhoods and 99% of them would fail. Get up off your lazy ass and walk a couple extra blocks to Newark or Grove and stop your whining and pipe-dreams.
Posted on: 2011/3/3 15:15
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Good luck Chris. Hope you find a good spot. Looking forward to it.
Posted on: 2011/3/3 14:45
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Yeah, but NIMBYs can't usually be reasoned with.
Posted on: 2011/3/3 14:20
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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These residential areas would be better served with more bars if they are managed with a respectful attitude towards the residents. Bars = people around = vibrancy = less crime.
These residential streets are dark and very quiet at night, perfect for the JC criminals...
Posted on: 2011/3/3 13:36
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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I'd love to see you on newark. While Grove provides quite a few bar options, Newark is still lacking in that area. Lots of foot traffic on newark and a great bar/restaurant would be a welcome addition in my opinion.
Posted on: 2011/3/3 12:53
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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I am glad to hear you say you plan to open possibly on Grove. I think you'll get a lot more foot traffic and less complaints.
Posted on: 2011/3/3 5:45
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Why did you shut down?
Were you not making any money or were there too many complaints? I live right around the block, I like the option of the bar being there, but I think the drink prices were a little too high for a neighborhood bar .. so only stopped by 3 or 4 times.
Posted on: 2011/3/3 5:41
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Newbie
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Considering the area was zoned residential after there was a bar in business there, the liquor license that was there at the time and the use were grandfathered in. The previous owner bought that license. I bought it from him.
Therefore, once I remove my liquor license, it should be deemed that the use has been "given up". Its not the beer taps or wooden bar & mirrors that make it a bar. Its the liquor license that makes it a bar (or as I'm sure the new tenant will say, a restaurant). In any event, if the ABC denys the license transfer, the landlord will have to rent it to someone else or make it an apartment/condo. After trying for almost 8 years, I'll never operate another bar in a residential area. I'm keeping my license and I'll probably open up on Grove St or Newark Ave in the future (where it makes sense).
Posted on: 2011/3/3 1:15
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Newbie
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Wouldn't that just stop that particular bar owner? If a bar is allowed there a new guy will just come along even if ABC shoots this guy down because of neighborhood complaints.
Posted on: 2011/3/2 23:17
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No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Newbie
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For those of you that do not want another bar @ 292 Barrow St:
I am pulling my liquor license from the location. The landlord has rented the space to someone who will attempt to transfer another liquor license into the space. I was told by the zoning department that my license was "grandfathered in" on 1-31-11, as the area is zoned residential. I spoke to them today and was told that they were wrong. They informed me that the "use" carries over and that it may be possible to transfer another license to the space subject to ABC approval. They will have to give notice in the Jersey Journal at least 2 weeks prior to the ABC meeting. If there was ever a time to voice your opinion, its now! I tried to control the noise level outside but, its near impossible. People that have consumed alcohol and go outside to smoke tend to be loud. If there is anything I can do or if you have any questions, please feel free to contact me @ barrowbeerguy@yahoo.com. Good luck! Chris
Posted on: 2011/3/2 21:19
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