I will just say this regarding your post moosamus because I have a busy next couple of days ahead of me.

The only time the new extension will have grid lock is when the the other areas of JC have gridlock. In other words, this unavoidable gridlock happens a couple of hours each day and that is it. The rest of the time this roadway will have an easy flow to it. Much like the current roads going in and out of LSP area.
Afterall, the only people who will use this new extension coming from DT JC, in my opinion, will be those heading to LSP and to the freeway entrance. DT residents who are closer to Columbus will most likely continue to take that route to the freeway. Holland Tunnel traffic during non-rush hour traffic will simply stay on the freeway as is done now. I suspect Paulus Hook residents will now probably take the Jersey Ave extension to the freeway as well. This, I think, will help lesson congestion on our current streets particularlry those heading west out of the city or to LSP.

So there you have it. I do feel you cocern about rush hour traffifc but in the grand scheme of things those few hours each day do not overide the need for this roadway.

I think this all about development of that parcel of land on the south side of the canal between the marina and turnpike.
What was once inaccessible when purchased by a member of the Family will magically become part of Downtown.
The traffic spilling onto Jersey will come not just from the TPK, but from Bayonne; traffic that is now traveling on 440 or the Blvd.
Way too high a price to pay to turn someone's RE investment to gold. I'd prefer to see the same thing happen to the South end of Jersey that happened to the North end; traffic flow impeded by a section of One-Way streets and a circuit of the park. At the very least, the bridge should be closed to commercial traffic.
The biggest gift to the B-L neighborhood was the lightrail. A bridge to Jersey Ave. will do next to nothing for anyone aside from the owner of that one property, in my opinion.
The Wild Card in this whole real estate development process is the threat of the proposed gas pipe running right through there.
We'll see.

@81905

I get the point in that you see an economic advantage for B-L in this extension. What I don't get is that you suppose each counter-argument is simply an expression of self-righteous downtown snobbery. I just don't think this project will help anybody except a handful of NYC auto commuters. I'll go down your list and offer what I think are reasonable responses:

1. Untrue. In addition to the studies plenty of others have cited, the roadway will simply invite more traffic onto Audrey Zapp and the entire park entrance. When the light rail is passing (every 4 mins at rush hour), drivers are blocking the rail tracks anyway, there is complete gridlock, and these folks have gotten onto Phillip St from LSC's 14C exit or 440, they will turn; yes, right onto Johnston, onto Pacific, and then onto Grand, adding more commuter traffic to an already compromised set of roads. This is exactly the opposite of what we both want to happen, and it will happen all the time.

2. As it looks now, this extension (even at two lanes) will turn Jersey Ave. into a congested, commuter mess. The convenience afforded by easy access to the Turnpike is negated by the design of LH as basically TOD (transit-oriented development). In fact, having this gridlock avenue might just help kill these property values, and stifle the seeming redevelopment of that little corridor. Don't get me wrong, extending Monmouth St and that small loop road, even through Aetna st is actually a very good idea, but catering to the suburban auto commuter at the expense of the actual city resident AGAIN seems short-sighted and not beneficial to anyone in JC, regardless of neighborhood.

3. Absolutely true, which is why any road extension (if it must happen at all) should be emergency vehicles (and/or HBLR) only.

4. Also true, but the lack of an attractive entrance is not justification at all. The scale of benefits is simply not even close.

5. Hell, JC already has traffic issues worthy of action. The city should enact some "traffic calming measures" anyway, and not simply as a knee-jerk reaction to poor and nearsighted planning (congestion pricing, one-ways, ACTUALLY TICKETING people that blatantly ignore these rules, other things folks have already mentioned, etc...).

6 & 7. BL will get a better entrance, to certain drivers, going to specific destinations, and there may be some allure in the entrance through downtown at first, but that sounds like smoke and mirrors to me. Having this route will not make BL accessible in any meaningful way to pedestrians, increase foot traffic, increase the uses of that intersection, or accomplish ANY of the things that drive urban development. Once you get down Jersey, you then walk down through the rest of the park, then the light rail parking lot, and only then after a couple blocks will you even hit La Gran Aventura. The real culprit here is the Turnpike itself. I just think the equation "this additional roadway = business and residential development" is deeply flawed, and doesn't consider the driving factors behind actual progress.

I have a number of friends in BL including co-workers at the Foundry. I am over there a lot and on occasion have to drive from HP. I have zero vested interest but my friends do. I hear their complaints/concerns and have seen the stand-still traffic on Pacific and Grand as I am sure you have.

FACT: Two ways in and out will help lesson traffic on Pacific, Grand and Johnston during rush hour and make it easier to get around (not just realtors but everyone heading in and out of BL)

FACT: The new developments slated for the area near Liberty Harbor, all of Mocco's develoments there, the hospital employees and neighboring businesses who have commuters will benefit from this extension. Now they simpy take Jersey Ave. to the freeway on-ramp by the Science Center.

FACT: An extension will finally make it easier for Ambulance drivers and law enforcement to get to LSP quicker.

FACT: This current entrance to our park is an embarrassment - this new extension will finally give it a respectable entrance it deserves. Personally speaking it will be a lot nicer to drive my older relatives down Jersey Ave to LSP then the current route.

FACT: Show me the traffic studies that say this will reak the sort of havoc you say will occur during rush hour. Remember the city could do all sorts of traffic calming measures during rush hour if need be.

FACT: BL will get a better entrance and while you may see that as some sort of "sell" I see it as improving an area that has been overlooked for decades.

FACT: Having the two entrances and a quicker, easier route to those residents will help lure more people to invest in BL and start businesses.

That's the last of it. Facts are facts no matter how you twist them Brewster.

Now I'm speechless. Confronted with facts, you've tossed aside the "faster" curtain to reveal......THE SELL!!! A major traffic fiasco for Downtown to give B-L a nice driveway.

It looks like someone bought some seriously overpriced B-L real estate.

Oh Brewster - Perhaps I should have said one less corner/turn. Also, depending on where you live over there, probably 1-3 less stop lights which in turn is better for the environment. Not to mention the obvious - one extra entrance in and out of that area.

To say it won't do anything for that area is just plain stupid. Ask any realtor what route they will be using to show off that neighborhood. Ask them as they drive a would-be buyer into BL if they will take the current potholed filled route past houses with bars on the windows or a nice new, tree lined, light post lined road that touches on the park with city views. Open your eyes!

You know there is more to driving then just simple distance. There's ease at getting from point A to point B and there also exists a more pleasurable driving experience versus a not so pleasurable driving experience. I suspect if you asked 10 people which route they would take to DT JC from that point on your little map they would all take the more scenic, slightly faster route by the outskirts of the park then the shoddy route that exists today.

Sorry but your little map doesn't sway me one bit - The new and old homeowners in BL will soon benefit and that's the end of it.

An interesting point-counterpoint. I'd still like to see the traffic studies if anyone has them... for what they're worth.

With the extension of Jersey Avenue, how long until a "Liberty Harbor West" plops onto the scummy end of "Aetna Drive."

One property at the corner of Aetna/ Jersey has already been put through a DEP clean-up of late. If the state or local thumb comes down on the west end of the marina canal and cleans it up we have more downtown which abuts the Turnpike extension and could even jockey for its own light-rail station.

Or, alternatively, the light rail will push across Jersey Ave and cut out the loop-around they added as a necessity at the time.

(P.S. Goodbye to the skate park that's tucked down there somewhere).

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I drive it quite often going to the park. Now I'll prove what you're saying is hooey. I'm so tired of the map illiterate, there's no corner being cut.

Use Googlemaps. set your origin at Johnston and Monitor, which is more or less the center of the strip of B-L along Johnston. Set your destination at Grand & Jersey. The walking time via Grand is STILL 1 minute less than the Jersey route!! (14 vs 15 minutes) So for most of B-L Grand would be quicker, presumably the more lights on Grand balanced by not crossing HBLT twice with a fair chance of delay.



BTW, trying to ease your through traffic problems at the expense of another neighborhood is both repugnant and futile. Mark my words, you'll see no long term traffic benefit, and I've proved above there's no reason you'll see economic benefit.

Drive it sometime Brewster. This will cut off a large corner to a lot of the residents near LSP, Pacific/Communipaw and towards Garfield Ave. Not to mention quell a ton of traffic coming off of Pacific and Johnston each rush hour. It will also help connect many in that area to DT which, as I said before, should help lure more businesses and more young families there. This seems very obvious to me but will fall on deaf ears to someone like you who either doesn't want to see the benefits to that section of town or could care less.

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I like this idea.

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One way is to simply refer to the post #. If you're referring to post #76, you've listed incidental effects that I don't understand how would be caused by the bridge. Why would it make Lafayette a more appealing place? By shaving a couple of minutes off a trip to Downtown?

It would be cool if they made the Jersey Ave LSP route one-way into the park during morning rush hour and reverse it for the evening.

As a cyclist/runner and general park user, I'm actually UNHAPPY about this. Yes, I got a flat tire once from that gravelly bit and my girlfriend took a tumble once, but in the end this will ruin the quiet, ped/cyclist only entrance to the park... Jersey Ave being a dead end at Grand makes it a godsend for that whole stretch for non-automotive traffic.

Goodbye bushes and peace, hello exhaust fumes and aggressive driving...

I have clearly listed just a few of the reasons why I think it will help that area. Perhaps you missed them in the short paragraph I wrote?

I prefer not to re-quote multiple posts. I guess I am K.I.S.S kind of person.

I work on Burma Road (the other side of Phillips street south of the LSC). While I would LOVE to avoid the light rail station (sometimes I get stuck for 5 mins while both north and south bound trains enter/leave the station) I just don't see this as being a good idea.

There are two schools right on the intersection of Grand and Jersey. There are crossing guards but opening up Jersey Avenue as a "short cut" like that is going to cause fatalities.

I bike from downtown to LSC at rush hour, and can attest to the reckless abandon drivers exercise over there EVERY DAY. I just hope I'm out of here by the time that road opens. It will most certainly, unequivocally, be a disaster.

Awful.

The pavement is nice, though, for now.

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How do you figure having a connection from LSP to Downtown helps them?

BTW there's a "quote" button a little below the text window you're typing your replies into.

I figured by saying, "that part of town which sees very few noteworthy improvements" would be fairly obvious. Bergen Lafayette has been overlooked for decades and decades. It's about time that part of Jersey City has something positive fall in their favor because that roadway, once completed, will really help put it on the map. Not to mention help property values and help bring in more businesses.

brewster wrote:
What boon for what part of town do you mean? Surely not Downtown?

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What boon for what part of town do you mean? Surely not Downtown?

You really think cobblestones are going to stop people from using the road?

These are the same people who have been using CCD for years.....

Cobblestones would be an improvement.

True, very true Brewster. But no matter how you view this extention this is still a huge boon for that part of town which sees very few noteworthy improvements.

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You must have missed the episode of this show where the Lafayette neighborhood groups were lobbying for the bridge to create relief for their traffic congestion due to people doing what you describe. So intervening with rush hour traffic will be a nonstarter with them. It was kind of them to give grassroots cover for the development interests pushing the road.

My idea of electronically preventing 14b to tunnel traffic would help them too, but the PA would never go for it, there's no upside for them after the initial flood of tickets and people wise up.

But to feed the fantasy, adding the CC exit would only require a passive EZpass reader on the exit ramp to add them to the interdiction list.

Let's not forget the current route going up Johnston to Pacific to Grand isn't going away so the city could easily place access restrictions on this new roadway. Heck, they could completely close it off to rush hour traffic if they determine that that's the best solution.

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This is a great idea! (Although perhaps cut it back to 1 hour.) Anyone making the exit from the Turnpike at 14C or CCD, and then immediately going into the Tunnel, is clearly using local streets for a shortcut.

It's hard to refute the logic of this idea.

I don't think the idea of increased tolls at these exits would work. The problem is that the tolls would punish people who legitimately are commuting to work on the JC waterfront, or who live in JC but happen to be exiting the Turnpike in those hours. All we really want to deter is the shortcutters exiting the Turnpike and then re-entering at the tunnel.

I also like the cobblestone idea, so long as the bike path is smooth asphalt.

I also commute to work on my bike through that area and am torn by the project. On one hand, yes, there are way too many crazed drivers speeding through on their way to work. On the other hand, I am always a little spooked by all of the brush and hiding places through the path. A well lit road would be nice during the times of the year when it gets darker earlier.

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AWESOME idea!! They should do that at the offshoot to Grand at the 14C exit too.

So does anyone have a map or illustration of exactly where this blacktop is poured and the road extension? I am having trouble picturing exactly where this is. Thanks!

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My favorite idea was to blackout the EZ-pass of someone getting off the Tpk at either of those exits from using it at the tunnel for 2 hrs afterward. Actually, the technology is in place to simply forbid it and then ticket them based on license plate recognition. But get that past the civil libertarians...

T-Bird asked:
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You are kidding, right? Haven't you lived in NJ long enough?? In the land of Tony Soprano, there is always reason to do a job several times over. The contractors will get paid to lay down a road, which they will dutifully tear up again in a couple of months, to replace it with a newer road. All at our expense, of course.

Didn't the same happen on Newark Ave during the recent project? Did they not lay down a new sidewalk, only to tear it up again? Didn't they just approve a new $67 million bond/loan to buy land on 440, which will be turned over to a contractor, and thus requiring the relocation of city buildings/agencies that will need to be rebuilt elsewhere??

What was your question again?

The proposed roadway is definitely a bad idea. I use that section of the park on a daily basis (I commute to work on a bike, and live across the park at The Foundry) and I see LOTS of people who get off at 14C and drive around LSC, on Phillips St, then up Johnson, to avoid the morning commute jams heading towards downtown and NYC. In fact, I am quite surprised that I have yet to witness a fatal accident at the corner of Audrey Zapp and Phillips. The a--holes getting off the turnpike extension and cutting through the park are ALWAYS speeding and the stop sign at that corner (Audrey Zapp/Phillips St) is hardly ever respected. People blow through the sign more often than not and rarely yield to pedestrians. There really should be a policeman stationed at that corner EVERY DAY. They could plug a sizable portion of the city's budget deficit with daily enforcement of the traffic rules at that corner.

Those of you who don't believe that the traffic volume will increase once a roadway is available to join the park to Jersey Avenue are in denial, or too dumb to connect the dots. I think you should come out to the park on a workday between 8:00 AM and 9:30 AM and you will see what I am talking about.

As a completely new aside, I was quite surprised to find that the work done yesterday came out really nice. I just rode over the new blacktop today and it was smooth and perfect in every respect. It was also very level and made for a much nicer ride. It should also make it less dangerous to ride through there at night. The gravel was a mess before, full of holes and bumps.

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That is an excellent idea, but it should be all the time, and more like $10.