Just need to chime in and vent a little. Let's see - a block away from Hamilton Park (right by JCPD east), two thefts a few months apart. First - women's hybrid, stolen lock and all, Kryptoflex type flex cable lock (I know, never again), and next, had a back(!) wheel stolen from an otherwise locked up bike with U-lock. Locked up the bike around midnight, was stolen by 8. Amusingly, I walked outside to see the wheel stolen the same morning PSEG was doing some work on my block, so there were 2 cops right in front of me as I discovered this.

A few years ago some (grad) students at Rutgers did a feasibility study of adding light rail/trolley service to the park by re-purposing the old Newark city subway cars, which I understand are simply lying in storage. It'd be a low-intensity route so they could be put back into action. It involved service mostly around the perimeter of the park, cutting through Freedom Way and connecting with the HBLR and so forth. They presented this at Liberty Science Center (where I work) for a public hearing of some sort, and I remember thinking at the time that while a little superficial, it'd be great idea. Still is.

I'm sure LSP still has the proposal - this was supposed to dovetail with their original park renovation dates. Glacier speed, baby.

to echo other comments, the dining area kind of feels like an unfinished apartment. good, heaping baked ziti though. i'll give it another whirl.

very good, very slow. i'll take it. or call ahead.

I live in the area, and I walk from Grove at all hours - for context, I'm a bigger guy and not too skiddish. The mall at 3 am creeps me out. Not because of any real perceived danger, but more in the horror-movie shining sort of way.

I'm actually a block or two farther, and I ride a bike to grove some days, too. Any chance of that? A 13 minute walk turns to a 3 minute ride and takes out (more or less) the danger factor.

It can get a bit empty on other streets, but Newark ave, for all its flaws, usually has some people milling about.

Con Vivo provides good programming in JC. nice people.

their site

Nonetheless, a very underserved niche here in town.

@81905

I get the point in that you see an economic advantage for B-L in this extension. What I don't get is that you suppose each counter-argument is simply an expression of self-righteous downtown snobbery. I just don't think this project will help anybody except a handful of NYC auto commuters. I'll go down your list and offer what I think are reasonable responses:

1. Untrue. In addition to the studies plenty of others have cited, the roadway will simply invite more traffic onto Audrey Zapp and the entire park entrance. When the light rail is passing (every 4 mins at rush hour), drivers are blocking the rail tracks anyway, there is complete gridlock, and these folks have gotten onto Phillip St from LSC's 14C exit or 440, they will turn; yes, right onto Johnston, onto Pacific, and then onto Grand, adding more commuter traffic to an already compromised set of roads. This is exactly the opposite of what we both want to happen, and it will happen all the time.

2. As it looks now, this extension (even at two lanes) will turn Jersey Ave. into a congested, commuter mess. The convenience afforded by easy access to the Turnpike is negated by the design of LH as basically TOD (transit-oriented development). In fact, having this gridlock avenue might just help kill these property values, and stifle the seeming redevelopment of that little corridor. Don't get me wrong, extending Monmouth St and that small loop road, even through Aetna st is actually a very good idea, but catering to the suburban auto commuter at the expense of the actual city resident AGAIN seems short-sighted and not beneficial to anyone in JC, regardless of neighborhood.

3. Absolutely true, which is why any road extension (if it must happen at all) should be emergency vehicles (and/or HBLR) only.

4. Also true, but the lack of an attractive entrance is not justification at all. The scale of benefits is simply not even close.

5. Hell, JC already has traffic issues worthy of action. The city should enact some "traffic calming measures" anyway, and not simply as a knee-jerk reaction to poor and nearsighted planning (congestion pricing, one-ways, ACTUALLY TICKETING people that blatantly ignore these rules, other things folks have already mentioned, etc...).

6 & 7. BL will get a better entrance, to certain drivers, going to specific destinations, and there may be some allure in the entrance through downtown at first, but that sounds like smoke and mirrors to me. Having this route will not make BL accessible in any meaningful way to pedestrians, increase foot traffic, increase the uses of that intersection, or accomplish ANY of the things that drive urban development. Once you get down Jersey, you then walk down through the rest of the park, then the light rail parking lot, and only then after a couple blocks will you even hit La Gran Aventura. The real culprit here is the Turnpike itself. I just think the equation "this additional roadway = business and residential development" is deeply flawed, and doesn't consider the driving factors behind actual progress.

I bike from downtown to LSC at rush hour, and can attest to the reckless abandon drivers exercise over there EVERY DAY. I just hope I'm out of here by the time that road opens. It will most certainly, unequivocally, be a disaster.

Awful.

The pavement is nice, though, for now.

There are a few things of note:

@FG: one of the folks on northjersey.com had it mostly correct - the POP system is implemented worldwide, and the fine structure still makes it profitable, even when poorly policed. Turnstiles are not only unnecessary, but have a large capital implication, and would totally change the design of the area and the flow of traffic, and not in a beneficial way.

I don't disagree with the fact that it's pretty poorly policed though.

@Chocolate cake, I completely agree about the influx of revenue, business, and housing in the region that is directly linked to the existence of the HBLR. I'd love to see an ROI formula that integrates these sources (I'm sure they exist somewhere). Hell, highways kill neighborhoods, and that's never stopped us before. Big Dig, anyone?

@JP: It would really be interesting to see a cost audit for this line; I wonder how much NJT is getting killed by their contractors.

Amazingly, in spite of this, people (even politicians) still seem to be supportive for the HBLR and light rail development in the area. Now if JC gets the embankment and... (can of worms).

This will be huge, particularly if the cross-harbor rail tunnel ever gets built. I would only hope that they consider the ridiculous expansion that looks to arrive there in that case. Wind farms powering high-efficiency rail is a nice model for cargo transport, especially in this area. Oh hi, actual job production.

Additionally, wind farms in "non-scenic" and otherwise unused bodies of water (e.g. western Lower Bay, western Raritan Bay, and some Newark Bay) would probably go up with less public outcry (?), if not other hitches. Are there SRECs or similar programs for wind? The PANYNJ could make a killing.

The revitalization of Greenville Yards and Port Jersey could be a huge boon, has a lot of potential, and I for one like this project a lot. Let's just hope it doesn't become, well, another Greenville Yards.

+1 @81905.

This is a nice gesture, but that's all it is. Lip service in the hopes that some other body will take up the cause.

Whatever. Dead horse.

I'll be riding anyway as usual. Thanks, Jerry. Maybe we can cross Grand at rush hour together.

I went here yesterday for dinner, and today for lunch. My observations, as somebody that eats food -

- Delicious ribs and chicken
- Really delicious pulled pork
- Good mac and cheese
- Terrific beans
- Lame coleslaw
- Decent Potato salad
- Terrific sweet potatoes

YMMV, but it kicks ass to have a BBQ window here in the hood. I hope they do well.

Agreed. Been in the hood about a year and I find it quite nice. 1stStguy, it seems you have it in for the Music Box. Maybe I just haven't experienced the same nonsense you have, but it just sorta seems generally rowdy to me - i.e. not life-changing. I like that the catfish station re-opened though; hopefully i can get grub at 3am this summer. Welcome to JC, Bks.

Basic has wifi - doubt it reaches into the park though.

Jersey ave is fine. It's not the prettiest, with construction, the junkyards, and the hospital, but it's not dangerous. Will be much livelier soon though, I think. Richard st can get pretty hairy, and the cemetery is a bit creepy. Danforth is ok along Danforth itself, and south of the station is ok too, but north of there can be pretty rough too. All in all it's definitely better where there are stations, though (not that i mean to get in a discussion about the merits of transit villages).

Gonna piggyback on ThirdGrove here in that I feel any momentum for this sort of project really rests with the modification/replacement of the Bayonne Bridge. I know the PA and NYSA reps are keen on simply knocking the thing down (why wouldn't they - it's a few billion cheaper!) or raising it, but if the bridge is indeed rebuilt, it will be built to accommodate rail. With the North Shore line coming back into style, we're most likely looking at a connection to the 8th st hblr.

Money's going to walk here, so the bridge will be addressed, but imho there is little hope for a tunnel under the kill van kull.

ianmac, don't get me wrong, I like the result of your proposal! The other thing is that this would for the most part benefit NJ folks. Lower Manhattan will NOT be torn up to benefit NJ, no matter how little the actual impact. my thoughts, at least.