K-Lo wrote:
Madame Claude's team is chugging away to open as soon as possible. The shop will specialize in French wines and spirits.

You're a very pessimistic person. I ask you...what makes Hoboken different? Why hasn't Manhattan "cast a pall" over bars, restaurants, and retail in Hoboken?

JCbiscuit wrote:
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tommyc_37 wrote:
Hoboken's function is also to provide a well-rested workforce of NYC. But it's retail scene has THRIVED.

The real difference is Washington Street. A strip that serves as the retail/restaurant/bar strip. Jersey City sorely lacks that (and it's pathetic seeing that it's a city of a quarter million people). This is what Newark Ave NEEDS to be. Because the retail spaces are there (unlike in Hamilton Park).

uh...have you BEEN to Hoboken? hardly a thriving retail scene. stores are closing down every day. even before the current economic crisis, Washington Street has always been papered with For Rent signs. even seemingly popular restaurants shut their doors without notice. running a small business is tough, period.

tommyc_37 wrote:
Hoboken's function is also to provide a well-rested workforce of NYC. But it's retail scene has THRIVED.

The real difference is Washington Street. A strip that serves as the retail/restaurant/bar strip. Jersey City sorely lacks that (and it's pathetic seeing that it's a city of a quarter million people). This is what Newark Ave NEEDS to be. Because the retail spaces are there (unlike in Hamilton Park).

Xerxes wrote:
Cities do not open restaurants, nor do they declare by fiat what will become "restaurant row."
If a market can and will support a venture, the venture will find the market. BUT if there are 20 other ventures currently supplying the need, no sane entrepreneur will toss away his money and time.

Newark Avenue is Newark Avenue becasue the market has determined that is what it shall be.

Wishing will NOT make it otherwise.

Anyone here who thinks such and such amenity will fly at Newark and Grove, take a few hundred grand and open the amenity and make your million.

I'm telling you why it will NOT happen around Hamilton Park but that does not mean you can't give it a go and see for yourself. Maybe Newark Ave and Grove will be more forthcoming for something upscale. I doubt it but who knows?

Over the years I can think of about a dozen Ale-Housey type places for some upscale imbing. All dead or dying because of lack of interest. Any guesses why?

Even ONE gay bar couldn't make a go of it with absolutely NO competition anywhere in the City.

Perhaps, just like all the shopping at Newport casts a pall over Hamilton Park's possibilities, in the same way Manhattan casts a pall over Jersey City.

creativeconquests wrote:
I totally see Grove Street and Newark Ave. (and the little off shoots of streets in that area) being that place. Didn't the city pass something a few months back declaring Newark restaurant row?

tommyc_37 wrote:

I disagree. Hoboken's function is also to provide a well-rested workforce of NYC. But it's retail scene has THRIVED.

The real difference is Washington Street. A strip that serves as the retail/restaurant/bar strip. Jersey City sorely lacks that (and it's pathetic seeing that it's a city of a quarter million people). This is what Newark Ave NEEDS to be. Because the retail spaces are there (unlike in Hamilton Park).

tommyc_37 wrote:
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Xerxes wrote:
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It's too bad Hamilton Park Ale House and Simple went downhill the last couple of years.

Thing is it's not "too bad" but rather INEVITABLE.

It's one thing to wish for a certain type of shoppe ("pe" deliberately added) and quite another for a neighborhood to SUPPORT such a thing. Yes, one can bemoan the awfulness of post pubescent college types drinking and pucking on Washington Aven (Hoboken I presume) but it is EXACTLY those types who are required to make a success of an "Ale House" or "Ye Olde Tavern."
In a neighborhood where people collapse into bed after working like dogs all day to support a mortgage, cutesy will go by the wayside and "Ye Olde Ale House" will be doomed to failure. If one ran a successful bar, the Hamilton Park neighborhood would soon be up in arms about all the noise.

The same lack of people on the street that makes your wife wary of walking the streets at night is the same lack of people who make boutique shoppes and taverns financially untenable.

This is not conjecture on my part...several shoppes have tried and failed. Only fools rush in to fill their vacuum.

Wishing will not make Jersey City into Chelsea, Tribeca, or Fifth Avenue. It's a burb whose sole function is to provide a nearby well-rested workforce for NYC during good times.

I disagree. Hoboken's function is also to provide a well-rested workforce of NYC. But it's retail scene has THRIVED.

The real difference is Washington Street. A strip that serves as the retail/restaurant/bar strip. Jersey City sorely lacks that (and it's pathetic seeing that it's a city of a quarter million people). This is what Newark Ave NEEDS to be. Because the retail spaces are there (unlike in Hamilton Park).

Xerxes wrote:
Quote:

It's too bad Hamilton Park Ale House and Simple went downhill the last couple of years.

Thing is it's not "too bad" but rather INEVITABLE.

It's one thing to wish for a certain type of shoppe ("pe" deliberately added) and quite another for a neighborhood to SUPPORT such a thing. Yes, one can bemoan the awfulness of post pubescent college types drinking and pucking on Washington Aven (Hoboken I presume) but it is EXACTLY those types who are required to make a success of an "Ale House" or "Ye Olde Tavern."
In a neighborhood where people collapse into bed after working like dogs all day to support a mortgage, cutesy will go by the wayside and "Ye Olde Ale House" will be doomed to failure. If one ran a successful bar, the Hamilton Park neighborhood would soon be up in arms about all the noise.

The same lack of people on the street that makes your wife wary of walking the streets at night is the same lack of people who make boutique shoppes and taverns financially untenable.

This is not conjecture on my part...several shoppes have tried and failed. Only fools rush in to fill their vacuum.

Wishing will not make Jersey City into Chelsea, Tribeca, or Fifth Avenue. It's a burb whose sole function is to provide a nearby well-rested workforce for NYC during good times.

mikewho12 wrote:
I agree, I think that people would support a business that is unique and affordable. Restaurants probably have the best chance of survival because there is not much competition in the HP area, but other businesses could thrive if they hit the right cord and price point. I think the biggest problem is that what we have right now isn't that great. If we had a few really good restaurants to choose from nobody would be complaining. Another major problem is that there is a major lack of retail space. We can argue about whether there should be more retail in HP until we are blue in the face but the fact of the matter is there is nowhere to put said retail. If Hamilton Inn ever returns and the bar formally known as Beret's Simple or Simple Beret's opens up again with food that is better than before (shouldn't be hard, their food was terrible) things won't be so bad. As is we have one or two bars to choose from, a sandwich shop and a few delis here and there. Adding those two back in the mix would greatly add to our neighborhood. Hopefully the shops at Hamilton Square will open up and really give us some options.

DCofJC wrote:
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I live at Newport and say ENOUGH ALREADY, no more stores! And if I want great bars, great theater, and the greatest restaurants in the United States, I need only jump on the PATH train at my feet. Who needs another retail shop on site?

I agree with a lot of what you say, but.....

I also feel that Newport is a lot different than HP, or other JC neighborhoods. I really believe that Newport is a sleepover for people who do all of their play in NYC.

I live near HP, and I RARELY go to NYC, or Newport Mall. In fact I call Newport "leggo city." I think it lacks taste and it's uncomfortable to walk around although it probably is safer than my neighborhood.

The issues with Michael Anthony's and the Embankment is they went too BIG. It's like an SUV. No longer economical in this climate. Look at the places that have succeeded in this town and you will find dinky little shops like Marco and Pepe's, Another Man's Treasure, Beechwood, White Star, and Madame Claudes etc. Tiny places where you can barely fit through the door and WE LOVE THEM! Well, most of them. Always packed and they probably have low over-head.

I've only lived here for 3 years, and I hear grove street was a hell hole. Some may say it resurged when places like Marco and Pepe's came around. But I remember going to the candlelight vigil for the man who was shot last February on Coles Street between 6th and 7th.... There were hundreds of people. A Community. I do believe these same people would support a business. The business just needs to have a good product/service, and should be small enough that it doesn't start out a quarter mil in the hole like the Ox probably did. That's not smart. Only time will tell, but I too dream.... of at least better choices.

I live at Newport and say ENOUGH ALREADY, no more stores! And if I want great bars, great theater, and the greatest restaurants in the United States, I need only jump on the PATH train at my feet. Who needs another retail shop on site?

Xerxes wrote:

All neighborhoods want a lovely mix of tasteful living. BUT living in the shadow of NYC makes that VERY difficult. A large city sucks the life out of any attempt to make the adjoining "communities" anything but safe places to sleep, if lucky.

Hamilton Park has the double disadvantage of being next to a Mall, many additional huge stores (Shop-Rite, A&P, BJ's, Target, Home Depot, Hoboken Beverage, Best Buys, Buy Rite.
Think hard, has anyone EVER seen a lively area next to a Mall...I have not. I cannot conceive of ANYTWERE, NYC included that has such a concentration of huge retailers in such a small area. What in Heavens name could be left for Hamilton Park?

Those living there should be content with enough of EVERYTHING...anything else is overkill.

Xerxes wrote:

All neighborhoods want a lovely mix of tasteful living. BUT living in the shadow of NYC makes that VERY difficult. A large city sucks the life out of any attempt to make the adjoining "communities" anything but safe places to sleep, if lucky.

Hamilton Park has the double disadvantage of being next to a Mall, many additional huge stores (Shop-Rite, A&P, BJ's, Target, Home Depot, Hoboken Beverage, Best Buys, Buy Rite.
Think hard, has anyone EVER seen a lively area next to a Mall...I have not. I cannot conceive of ANYTWERE, NYC included that has such a concentration of huge retailers in such a small area. What in Heavens name could be left for Hamilton Park?

Those living there should be content with enough of EVERYTHING...anything else is overkill.

I live at Newport and say ENOUGH ALREADY, no more stores! And if I want great bars, great theater, and the greatest restaurants in the United States, I need only jump on the PATH train at my feet. Who needs another retail shop on site?
(And yes, I am the same distance from the Newport Mall as Hamilton Park is.)

Anybody who wants a beautiful bar tthere is the South Shore Grile and Michael Anthony's. They are both dying. Why, because of lack of interest. In spite of being surrounded by THOUSANDS of apartments within a couple blocks. Add Dorrians, Ole, Charley's (now defunct)...all mostly empty and you will see the fate of another bar opening in HP.

Xerxes wrote:
Yes, I can understand why someone would not want to eat at the Mall's Food Court. But have any of you looking for some decent food in a nice setting eaten at The South City Grille, Michael Anthonys (with the best restaurant view in the city,) or the steakhouses in either the Westin or the Double Tree?

Why not? Is 4 or 5 blocks too far to travel? Must a restaurant be on your block? If you take the PATH to work, then these restaurants are as close to you as a restaurant can be.

For those who want to buy gifts, does Macy's lack something that some cutesy local candle shop, or handmade soap shop has? (The Mall BTW DOES have a cutesy candle shop.)
Would you prefer to buy your Wranglers or Dockers at Ye Olde Jeans Shop at twice the price that SEARS, PENNEY'S, or KOHL'S charges? In fact if you work in Manhattan you can merrily buy your jeans for $200 on 14th Street around 11th Ave...a couple of ADORABLE shops for those with more money than brains.