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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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And kudos to JC_DowntownRegular in this piece.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 13:08
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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Quote:

jcfun wrote:
I wasn't saying that the SPP had anything to do with the Taconic, I put the SPP in parenthesis because you (jc_downtown regular) kept correcting everyone on how the state police are not the same as the state PARK police, etc.. I brought the Taconic into the whole thing for obvious ( I hope) reasons. Sorry for the confusion.


Got it. I am un-confused now. Thanks for the clarification.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 13:02
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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I was part of the group, we were having fun with the little kids, it was a hot day, we were unaware of the no alcohol regulation, having 1 beer, not being loud or rowdy, we are well educated and well mannered adults, but I see more and more and feel the sense that we are living in a prison state, no dissent. These individuals have below level education, big egos, a little power, you have a retrograde with a uniform. Somehow we need to bring civility back.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 13:00
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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I wasn't saying that the SPP had anything to do with the Taconic, I put the SPP in parenthesis because you (jc_downtown regular) kept correcting everyone on how the state police are not the same as the state PARK police, etc.. I brought the Taconic into the whole thing for obvious ( I hope) reasons. Sorry for the confusion.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 12:59
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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Quote:

DirtMcGirt wrote:
Why is the "no alcohol" law a good one?

If you commit a real crime, prosecute it. Drinking in and of itself is not criminal.


Dirt,

The issue at hand is not whether the no alcohol law is a good law. That is what the law is, and the OP, by his own admission, broke the law. Alcohol is not allowed in any state park in NJ.

There are two reasons for the law.

1) There is an increase of disorderly conduct and other incidents when alcohol is allowed. This is not my opinion, but fact.

2) Most people have to drive to the state parks in NJ. Yes LSP is different as it has the light rail. However, the state parks are being proactive by not allowing people to drink and thus reducing the potential chance of a drunk driving incident.

This is a real crime. It is as prosecutable as littering, having a dog off a leash, jaywalking, running a red light, murder, or robbery. Let's not let personal opinion of what the law should be muddle the issue at hand.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 12:57
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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Why is the "no alcohol" law a good one?

If you commit a real crime, prosecute it. Drinking in and of itself is not criminal.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 12:47
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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Thanks Iwitness.

And what's up with that photo that Tazmanio posted. That is far from the state park police doing their jobs. Comparing crimes against humanity to someone getting a ticket for alcohol is not even relevant.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 12:42
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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Posted on: 2009/11/11 12:39
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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I'd like to thank JC_DowntownRegular for doing the heavy lifting on this thread. +1,000 to everything he's posted on the topic.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 12:36
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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Quote:

hamlet wrote:
I didn't have 'CASES OF ALCOHOL', just 2 six packs of Heineken Light (for 25 adults).

To whoever posted the contacts, thank you very much. Very helpful!

PS If we let them do this to us, they will. When the term 'breaking the law' becomes so vague and interpretive that a jaywalker is treated like a criminal, you will remember the liberties we all took for granted.


I posted those contacts.

However, no alcohol means no alcohol. It doesn't matter if you have 2 six packs or an entire truck load.

Breaking the law in this case isn't vague. You broke the law as you so admit. You perpetrated a crime, just as a jaywalker is, hence you are a criminal in the legal sense. There is no if they let them do this to us. You broke the law. The officer didn't do anything. You did.

Even though the officer may have been disrespectful in your opinion, he did exercise his discretion in not arresting you which he could have. Case law shows that people can be arrested for even the most minor of infractions. Count your blessings.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 12:33
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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Quote:

hamlet wrote:
2 six packs of Heineken Light (for 25 adults)


Criminal indeed!

Posted on: 2009/11/11 12:29
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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Quote:

jcfun wrote:
As for the "state PARK police", doesn't anyone remember the incident on the Toconic????


Okay, I'll bite, what do the NY State Park Police have to do with the incident on the Taconic. I'm not being snarky, I just don't know all the details.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 12:26
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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All I basically said is, cops should not allowed to be assholes and bullies. They were given a responsibility to protect us, not oppress us. I'm not contesting the law, or looking for sympathy, I'm asking if anyone had a similar experience. As usual JCListers get sidetracked in talking smack on each other :).

I didn't have 'CASES OF ALCOHOL', just 2 six packs of Heineken Light (for 25 adults) and i was never arguing with the officer, just pleading with his sense of reason.

The only reason i posted it 2 months later, is because i was waiting for the results of the Park Police investigation until now.

To whoever posted the contacts, thank you very much. Very helpful!

PS If we let them do this to us, they will. When the term 'breaking the law' becomes so vague and interpretive that a jaywalker is treated like a criminal, you will remember the liberties we all took for granted.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 12:25
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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Sounds to me like the the cop was a bit of a jerk, but that being said - You admit that you both broke the law (not knowing is no excuse) and lied to him. So as annoying as a situation as it was, you won't find too much sympathy here. He coulda ticketed a lot more people, so in a way consider yourself lucky. You tired to complain and got no where, but at least you tried. And who knows, maybe if more people complain about this guy it will add up and his bosses will reprimand him, so it may not have been in vain. At this point I would move on.

I also found out the hard way that there is no alcohol allowed at state parks. I went to Jones Beach for a concert and they didn't serve beer. Needless to say, it was the only concert I've ever seen there.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 12:21
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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Look, you did break the law. Stop whining about it. As for the "state PARK police", doesn't anyone remember the incident on the Toconic???? It wasn't that long ago. I'm surprised no one here has brought that up yet. Maybe the SPP were a little over dramatic in your opinion but maybe they wanted to insure no repeat of that. And again, YOU broke the law. Sorry but what idiot goes to a public park and DOESN'T look into the rules regarding alcohol. What are you 12???

Posted on: 2009/11/11 12:09
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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Quote:

Crazy_Chester wrote:
Some 4-yr-olds are very entertaining after they've had a couple of beers.


As a toddler my dad and grandfather gave me a little bit of bourbon once. Apparently that was hilarious.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 11:58
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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Some 4-yr-olds are very entertaining after they've had a couple of beers.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 11:55
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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Quote:

tern wrote:
wibbit ,

Many children's parties have alcohol for adults, it's not unusual.

Robin.


Some would consider it mandatory!

And by some, I mean me.



Posted on: 2009/11/11 11:52
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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tern wrote:
wibbit ,

Many children's parties have alcohol for adults, it's not unusual.

Robin.


I was about to post the same thing, but then I thought maybe Wibbit was saying that the person who had the open containers was out of their mind if they thought they could get away with it discretely with all those kids around?

I'm not sure but if wibbit could clarify I'd be into that.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 11:40
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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wibbit ,

Many children's parties have alcohol for adults, it's not unusual.

Robin.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 11:34
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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Boo-friggin'-hoo.

Next.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 11:29
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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You are kidding right? please say you are....

Having a party for a 4 yearold, with all the little kids running around, in a public place. And you brought cases of ALCOHOL? Then you got upset because the cops werent so nice about it after they saw it?

I really dont get what planet some of you guys are from....

Quote:

hamlet wrote:
Did anybody else had a bad experience with Liberty State Park police lately?

On September 16, I was throwing a birthday party at the Park playground for my 4 year old son, his friends and their parents. I have reserved my spot with the Park Office and had the permit displayed at the area. Everything was going great: i set up the balloons and 2 tents, games, snacks and pizzas, goody bags, birthday cake you name it. We had about 25 kids and 20 adults in total. Everyone was having a good time, until 2 Park Police cars pulled up to our area. The officer on duty came out and immediately singled a mother of one of the children. She was sitting at the table and had an open beer bottle next to her. He really got in her face, demanding to know if the beer was hers. She looked terrified and intimidated, so i stepped in and said the beer was mine. He told me i was lying and demanded to know who all the open beers belonged to. I told him they were all mine (i was really embarrassed by the whole situation and was trying to keep other parents out of it). I explained that we didn't know, we were not allowed to have them and that i would happily throw them away and remove the unopened bottles to the car, but it seems he was out for blood. I pointed out that this was a kids birthday party and all the adults were responsible parents, not thugs. I was pleading for him to stop being so aggressive and he told me that, if i said another word he would arrest me and disband the whole event. At this point my wife pulled me away and tried to reason with him, but he was completely unsympathetic. First he collected everyone's driver's licenses to issue summons. The parents were all upset and the kids were very confused by what was happening. After checking everyone's licenses in his system, he returned all of them, except my wife's who he issued a $75 dollar ticket. Then the police left, but the party was kinda ruined :(.

We didn't know the no-alcohol rule in the park, but we were happy to comply with it. There was no reason for the police aggressive and belligirent behaviour. He should've used his judgement and realised that we were not a threat to the public, and politelly asked us to remove the beers. Instead he terrified half of us and totally abused his power.

My wife and other parents complained to the Park Chief about it, and i just received a letter from him stating, that his investigation concluded that we were uncooperative and deceiving which caused the officer to become firm with us. In other word we were wrong and he was right. I'm so upset about it, that i will be gathering signatures of everyone in that party and sending letters to various local government agencies asking to investigate this matter further. Any advice on how to handle this, or who to write is greatly appreaciated.

Did anyone have any similar experience? Please let us
know.

PS I have noticed that the police is getting more aggressive and forcefull out there. What is going on!?!? Do they think that everyone is a potential terrorist. We must resist this at all costs, or we will wake up one day in oppressive police state.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 11:24
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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Quote:

linky wrote:
Good work NJ State Police.


It's is NOT the NJ State Police. It is the NJ State Park Police.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 11:18
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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I'm glad to hear that the state police are doing their job protecting the people who use the park. My husband and I take our two young daughters bike riding in the park on the weekends, and I was glad to hear that the police make sure that nobody is going to be driving around the park after tossing back a few beers at a party in the park.

And we threw a party at the park a few years ago. It was made very clear to us that alcohol wasd strictly prohibited and violaters would be ejected. If anyone had brought beer to the party my husband and I would have told them that they are not allowed to drink it. You should thank the cop for being cool about it and not kicking your friends out.

Good work NJ State Police.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 11:16
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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Unfortunately none of us were there to witness the incident. Maybe the park police officer was unnecessarily belligerent, maybe the OP was more belligerent than they state. Fact of the matter is, if they want to complain, they can go up the chain of command. Yes, we all agree they broke the law, but maybe they do have a legitimate grievance. We will never know the actual truth.

Interestingly enough, a friend of mine was written a ticket in the summer by a very overzealous and belligerent state park police office in LSP. It may be one in the same officer. My friend was cooperative and friendly, and the officer was just downright rude. My friend broke the law, didn't argue, took the ticket, and paid it. He didn't even complain about it and doesn't really care about the incident. So who knows, maybe there is a park police officer with a chip on their shoulder. Like I said in previous posts - these types of officers exist everywhere.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 11:00
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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It is a bit strange that you waited this long---is it because you just received the letter? I agree cops generally are too aggressive and it does sound like they could have been a bit more diplomatic, but I would pick my fights carefully, and I would also have just said whatever the trouble is it will be fixed officer.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 10:59
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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Quote:

EthanCrane wrote:
Completely disagree with your arrogant response. If a Starbucks barista can deal with dozens of idiots per hour and remain pleasant, then a park cop, who probably has one difficult situation a month, can talk to people decently. We should demand more from the police that serve us.


Wait, who's arrogant?! Listen to yourself.

I'm no fan of belligerent cops, believe me, but the original poster is just living in a fantasy land. I'm quite happy to have some thuggish cops in this town. The shit they see on an average night would have me crying home to momma.

Yes, I understand these are the park police, not JCPD, but look at a map and tell me it's not a goddamn miracle that the LSP stays as safe and pleasant as it is.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 10:59
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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You're going to compare a highly stressful job like being a police officer to a job like being a Barista at Starbucks? Really?

I would have given your argument the benefit of a doubt had you chosen another career, but damn.

Police officers work long shifts, often with no legit breaks, dealing with things that run the spectrum, from domestic disturbances to robberies to homicide.

A barista has to spend 8 hours tediously marking off squares on a cup when a bunch of people order double tall vanilla breve lattes and sometimes when making the drinks has to deal with gripes such as "I asked for soy milk," or "this is too hot," or "I asked for this iced."

Posted on: 2009/11/11 10:47
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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Quote:

hamlet wrote:

PS I have noticed that the police is getting more aggressive and forcefull out there. What is going on!?!? Do they think that everyone is a potential terrorist. We must resist this at all costs, or we will wake up one day in oppressive police state.


Seriously? This happened two months ago and you create an account just to log on and tell us about it now? Hmmm...who's the oppressed one.

Just because you broke the law and got busted doesn't mean the police are out of control. Rules are rules.

Sorry, no sympathy here. Let it go and move on. Party somewhere else.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 10:46
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Re: Liberty State Park Incident
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Completely disagree with your arrogant response. If a Starbucks barista can deal with dozens of idiots per hour and remain pleasant, then a park cop, who probably has one difficult situation a month, can talk to people decently. We should demand more from the police that serve us.


I don't disagree with police acting decently, but I do disagree with the barista comparison. Park police deal with a lot more than one difficult situation a month and a lot more people than a barista does. Granted there are slower days with few visitor contacts, but on average a single park police officer sees and deals with a lot more visitors than a single barista serves customers.

A barista can't even come close to comparing to park police. The most difficult situation a barista has to face is that they ran out of change, creamer, or the line of people waiting has grown to 15 people, compared to a park police officer that may deal with life safety issue, crime, and a lot more people in a lot bigger space than a closet sized Starbucks. Please don't muddle the issue.

Again yes there are overzelous law enforcement officers, and yes they work for us, and yes the should treat all people they come in contact with decently and respectfully, but let's not belittle their jobs and generalize all officers.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 10:44
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