Browsing this Thread:
3 Anonymous Users
Re: Liberty Harbor North
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Newbie
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
I wasn't trying to credit Liberty Harbor for Jersey City's up-and-coming status. LOL, sometimes people take things way too seriously- I just like the fact that there are places like this so close to the city so I can live well and get to work in Manhattan in a timely fashion. I'm sorry to have upset any of you, I just had a pleasant experience and wanted to voice it. I hope everyone has a great weekend.
Posted on: 2008/7/11 13:43
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor North
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() Joined:
2004/9/19 5:02 Last Login : 2017/2/27 17:44 From Van Vorst Park Historical District
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
252
![]() |
Quote:
I fully agree with jennymayla. Not to be an attack dog (arf!), but Liberty Harbor North hasn't "revamped" Jersey City -- a place which many have labeled as "up-and-coming" long before LHN's arrival. It's definitely nice to have LHN along for the ride and I look forward to see what ends up being built over there, but I can safely say that most of us were just fine before Liberty Harbor North broke ground and we'll still be a-okay once the development is completed.
Posted on: 2008/7/11 2:35
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor North
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Just can't stay away
![]() ![]() ![]() Joined:
2004/12/12 23:31 Last Login : 2015/12/3 0:37 From Paulus Hook
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
130
![]() |
Quote:
Was going to ask the same thing, unless the poster mistook the posterboard facades on the LH retail space for actual shops :)
Posted on: 2008/7/10 21:32
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor North
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
Really? Which "stores and restaurants" have popped up so far in Liberty Harbor?
Posted on: 2008/7/10 21:07
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor North
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
Did NYCareerPro send you? I am conflicted yet again, because I believe your post is a scam but I do want to make one point: Downtown JC has been developing for years and very successfully. LHN is just a newcomer taking advantage of the momentum. There is nothing wrong with that, just don't credit them with the movement.
Posted on: 2008/7/10 16:35
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor North
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
This is a nonsensical analogy. 3 bedroom condos in Metuchen are listed for under $250, while studios in Jersey City start in the mid $300s. Also, Metuchen is a suburb, and Jersey City is a city, and as for points of comparison, there is none.
Posted on: 2008/7/10 16:27
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor North
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
Metuchen? Metuchen? Oh, horror....
Posted on: 2008/7/10 15:33
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor North
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Newbie
![]() ![]() ![]() |
I really think they have done a good job to revamp Jersey City and Liberty Harbor has been a big part of this. I know that every time I pass by (which isn't all the time) there are always new changes and more stores and restaurants popping up.
They are really trying to make Jersey City a nicer, up-and-coming place. It's not going to happen overnight, which I'm sure none of you are saying, but I think we should give them a chance. New Jersey itself is getting more expensive by the day, so I think condos in Jersey City like Liberty Harbor are going to be more pricey than say, Metuchen, because of the proximity to NYC and all that the area has to offer. As far as the architecture and walkways, street construction that people are complaining about... it happens, not everything can be the way we all want. For the sake of sounding too corny, we just have to make the best of it and know that what we can't change is not worth wasting our energy complaining about.
Posted on: 2008/7/10 14:27
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor North
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() Joined:
2004/9/19 5:02 Last Login : 2017/2/27 17:44 From Van Vorst Park Historical District
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
252
![]() |
Quote:
ianmac47, This is a well-written brief analysis of where Newport has failed and where Liberty Harbor North has attempted to succeed -- thank you for sharing! In the long run, I hope the not-so-narrow streets of Liberty Harbor that you describe are still relatively calming to traffic. Maybe the fact that they don't perfectly follow the lines of Jersey/Barrow/Grove and that some of the planned streets are bent (and are even sort of zigzagged) will help some. If it eventually becomes too much of a problem, the curbs and sidewalks could be widened at the mouths of the intersections (as propscene suggests in this post for the streets that intersect with Newark Avenue) -- though securing the funding for the narrowing of intersections after Liberty Harbor is developed would probably be, at best, extremely difficult. Regarding the marked variations in design and especially the oversized white railings, I noticed that too. At first it registered with me as a bit overwhelming and a kind of Disneyland-ification of brownstone-like city dwellings, but then I decided to try and let go of at least some of the expectations I had for Liberty Harbor and instead just appreciate the mixture of new fa?ades for what they are. While the community should surely maintain high standards for this development, it is definitely a huge improvement upon what was there before. Hopefully, when all is said and done, Liberty Harbor North will be an intelligent compliment to Downtown Jersey City's vibrant network of neighborhoods.
Posted on: 2008/7/8 14:43
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor - thoughts?
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Just can't stay away
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Could they hurry up and get some commercial stuff in there already? I live by liberty state park light rail stop and i can't wait until there are stores and restaurants i can walk to or go a couple light rail stops to besides Caesars Cafe and Pathmark. We have grown enough in lafayette to warrant some more options.
Posted on: 2008/7/6 18:33
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor - thoughts?
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() Joined:
2005/6/8 3:24 Last Login : 2022/11/28 0:04 From New Urbanist Area
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
1429
![]() |
I've moved into our new unit at GC. The walk to the Grove Street PATH is shorter than from our home on Monmouth Street. The neighborhood is bookended by the two light rail stops, and there is NY Waterway ferry service from Marin Blvd to Pier 11.
The Liberty Harbor neighborhood is pretty well covered as far as public transportation goes.
Posted on: 2008/7/2 18:45
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor - thoughts?
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
I'm having a hard time picturing the LHN geography, but I think there's a fairly easy solution here: have the Little Lady ferry boat stop right by LHN as well as at the foot of Warren Street. If, say, you live at Portside these days, you could always shell out a little extra money to take the Little Lady to the World Financial Center when you don't feel like walking to the PATH station. It seems to me that the Little Lady tends to be underutilized. The owners probably would love it if they could get some LHN traffic.
Posted on: 2008/7/2 15:40
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor - thoughts?
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
You do realize that just like the VVP area, one could walk from LHN to the Grove PATH in 7 minutes or so? And considering Grove has both PATH lines there is no specific need to use Exchange Place over Grove. (Actually a quick look at Google Maps shows a walk from Grand/Barrow to Grove would be a fair bit shorter than the walk from Essex/Warren to Exchange). For the record I like PH a lot (and one would probably pay more there for a condo than elsewhere in downtown JC), but I do want to point out that there are other PATH stations in this town other than Exchange Place ![]()
Posted on: 2008/7/2 15:30
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor - thoughts?
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Just can't stay away
![]() ![]() ![]() Joined:
2004/12/12 23:31 Last Login : 2015/12/3 0:37 From Paulus Hook
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
130
![]() |
Quote:
While I didn't mean to imply that LHN was in the boonies, it is too isolated for my tastes at $500k+ for a 1BR unit. It may be a great walk to Exchange on a pleasant morning from LHN, but if you have to make that walk every night in the Winter it's not much fun... I did it for years from Essex & Warren St. and on cold days w/the always heavy winds it can be surprisingly difficult. Many such nights I had to stop for relief, in the form of a glass of Jameson's, at the Light Horse, otherwise I'd have never made it home ![]() I've commuted into Manhattan from the burbs (car to park & ride, bus to Port Authority, subway to office), from the Heights (99s or marshrutka to Port Authority, subway to office), and for the last 9 years from Paulus Hook (PATH to WTC and more recently, PATH to 33rd). I love to bitch about the PATH, but over this time I've become strongly averse to having to rely on more than one form of transportation - in addition to the PATH - to get to and from work. Yeah, probably I'm a bit anal about it but I've spent too much of my life on buses, broken down jitneys, and subway platforms and there are just too many ways to be delayed when you add another link to your commute.
Posted on: 2008/7/2 15:09
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor - thoughts?
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
Sweetie, you are making it worse. STOP!
Posted on: 2008/7/2 14:54
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor - thoughts?
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
You can't viral market from home? That sucks. ![]()
Posted on: 2008/7/2 14:18
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor North
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
For comparison, one need only look as far as Newport. Mocco's original plans back in the mid 1980s called for a gated community more along the lines of Avalon Cove than the current city. New Urbanism's importance is mostly a result of a reaction to the high Modern ideals. Mid-century urban planning was heavily influenced by Le Corbusier's plan for Paris.. That is, large open tracks of green space punctuated with high rise residential towers connected by a series of car friendly roadways. Some great examples of this style are Peter Cooper Village / Stuyvesant Town, Chicago's Robert Taylor Homes, and of course, LeFrak City, Queens. There are a number of key components that Newport shares with these mid 20th century designs that New Urbanism communities like Liberty Harbor North attempt to correct. First, Newport gives precedence to automobile traffic. New Urbanist ideals call for creating walkable communities. In a city with masst transit, this should seem like an obvious design component. But Newport has both a PATH station and a light rail stop, yet the car is obviously a major factor in the design of the neighborhood. Parking garages dominate Newport's streetscapes. Washignton Boulevard is a major six lane roadway that severs the community in two. Newport is about cars, New Urabnism communities like Liberty Harbor North are about walking and mass transit. Second, 20th century urban design calls for a delineation between public and private spaces, while New Urbanism emphasizes the public sphere. Newport has a number of gated, private green spaces. The dog park is only for Newport residents and theoretically, so are the playgrounds (though children, unlike dogs do not need to be registered with management). In essence, Newport creates private enclaves that shut out the general public. Historic urban construction and New Urbanism both seek to create public spaces. The great parks of New York City were largely created as public green spaces. Boston Common was literally a common green space shared by the public. In Newport, even commerce takes place in private spaces -- the mall -- rather than in a traditionally public venue like the street. In Liberty Harbor North, there is no interior mall, but retail accessible from the streets. Third, New Urbanism strives for a 24 hour a day neighborhood, while Newport segregates shopping, working, and living. 20th Century planning calls for a clear separation of the various components of life. Thus suburban tract homes have sidewalks that go nowhere because there is no place to go-- retail and offices are segregated from residential areas. The same is true in Newport. Offices line Washignton Blvd. The residences are clustered around Newport Parkway. Retail is contained in the Newport mall. While some of Newport's residential towers have limited retail space, these are mostly services to support the residences, not actual destination retail. Newport is very segmented. By contrast, Liberty Harbor North has integrated retail, residences, and eventually offices. Its truly a mixed use community with residential units stacked on top of retail, and eventually, next to offices. Liberty Harbor North could have easily become another Newport. Indeed, it almost became a gated community. But with the New Urbanist ideals, it became a much more traditional urban neighborhood, which is ultimately the whole point of New Urbanism. That said, there are a few criticisms I have of Newport. First, the streets are too wide. The current streets have a huge distance between the base of the buildings on either side, and enough room for a gentle curve to the street while keeping the building line straight. The problem I have with this is that the great urban neighborhoods of the world have narrow streets. Look at the old quarter in Rome, the west village in New york, or colonial Boston. Even in Jersey City most of the historic streets are more narrow than those in Liberty Harbor. Second, some of the architectural choices have me baffled. Specifically, some of the 'brownstone' units have rather oversized white railings, which look like they belong to a suburban McMansion rather than an urban brownstone. Further, while I understand they were trying to artificially create the sense of an organic city with a varied architectural style, it is both too much and not enough at the same time. That is, some of the designs repeat on the different streets-- meaning there is not enough variety in the building shapes. At the same time, historic districts, especially brownstone districts, tend to have much less variety in design on each block than LHN has. That is, organic cities tend to be built at at the same time and in a similar style, block by block. While many of the historic blocks have slight variations in each house, most have common traits. LHN is so wildly varied that the houses simply look incongruous next to each other.
Posted on: 2008/7/2 14:12
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor - thoughts?
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
The sales people were quite friendly to me, but they are very busy! this is a shill post. (the implied message: "act now!")
Posted on: 2008/7/2 13:02
|
|||
"Someday a book will be written on how this city can be broke in the midst of all this development." ---Brewster
|
||||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor - thoughts?
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Newbie
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
I only linked the website so that people knew where to go to find it if they didn't already know- it only takes two seconds to link so I didn't see it as a big deal. And like I posted earlier, I don't have a lot of time to go around a look at places since I work a lot and have a far commute into the city. These condos would be really convenient for me and I wanted responses of the pros and cons so I didn't go into the decision too blindly.
Posted on: 2008/7/2 13:01
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor - thoughts?
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Newbie
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
I read a few postings that people have paid downwards of $400k for a brownstone, which really is a decent price being so close to the city since I work in Manhattan and having the features they say they have included- maybe that pricing is incorrect but that's why I am inquiring about it. I work a lot so I don't have a lot of time to go check out all the condos in NJ available so I was hoping to get some insight by how people respond. Either way, the responses have been helpful in their own way and if anyone else has any suggestions or comments, I would love to hear them. Thanks!
Posted on: 2008/7/2 12:56
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor North
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() Joined:
2004/2/6 23:13 Last Login : 2021/7/30 1:08 From Jersey City
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
1225
![]() |
Flintkote, Flintkote, Flintkote, Flintkote, Flintkote
Quote:
Posted on: 2008/7/2 2:00
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor North
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() Joined:
2004/2/6 23:13 Last Login : 2021/7/30 1:08 From Jersey City
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
1225
![]() |
never understood the big deal about "new urbanism" ideas that were used to create a new town in the swamps, being applied to an existing city like Jersey City, a few blocks from direct subway to NYC (less than 10min) and a LRT line, the only benefit has been for it to be stated on the cover sheets of redevelopment plan that are rubber stamped ....
Quote:
Posted on: 2008/7/2 1:57
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor North
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
None of which has anything to do with whether Gull's Cove is part of the overall development community being built by Mocco and in the present day being referred to as Liberty Harbor. Which is and was my original point, that groove gave the impression in his post that the Mocco development is somehow in Siberia.
Posted on: 2008/7/1 20:24
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor North
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
Not exactly. Gulls Cove is not owned by Mocco now, but he did own the land before selling it to Metro Homes, with deeded restrictions requiring they adhere to the master plan created by Duany Plater Zyberk. This is different than the other redevelopment zones. Also, "Liberty Harbor" was originally a plan to build high rise residential towers in what is now Liberty State Park, Le Corbusier style.
Posted on: 2008/7/1 20:11
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor North
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
There's the Liberty Harbor North Redevelopment Plan, and then there is "Liberty Harbor", the Mocco-owned development comprising a large percentage of the LHN Redevelopment Plan. So while Gull's Cove is not a part of the development named Liberty Harbor (the Northern-most portions of which abut Grand Street, this phase commonly being referred to as Liberty Harbor North), it lies within the Redevelopment Plan of the same name.
Posted on: 2008/7/1 19:28
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor North
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Technically, Gull's Cove is part of Liberty Harbor North. The masterplan by DPZ includes everything between Jersey Avenue and Van Vorst Street. The portion that is commonly referred to as Liberty Harbor North, and which is accessible from Liberty Harbor .com is being built by Peter Mocco, but the res of the lots, such as those around Gulls Cove, must conform to the LHN masterplan created by DPZ. This is similar to another DPZ community, the much lauded Seaside Florida. DPZ created what amounted to city zoning ordinances, and most of the properties were eventually built on by private owners, conforming to the masterplan.
Posted on: 2008/7/1 19:13
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor - thoughts?
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
+1. Doesn't LHN start literally one city block south of the much revered "Gull's Cove"? (Worst name for a development EVER, btw).
Posted on: 2008/7/1 18:49
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor - thoughts?
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Home away from home
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
While I reject this thread since it is all based on FRAUD, I still want to respond... LHN is a casual walk to the Grove PATH station. Like 8 minutes tops. Plus on a nice day, it's a great walk to the Exchange PATH. And what's wrong with having to take the light rail if you don't feel like walking? As for the neighborhood, it is literally across the street from an already-booming neighborhood called Van Vorst Park, and it borders another booming neighborhood called Paulus Hook. Okay, so some of the new fancytown elements of LHN might be under construction for a while, but it's incorrect to position it like it's in the boonies or an underdeveloped location. I have heard similar complaints about the sales people though. Lots of people have been turned off by them, which is a shame.
Posted on: 2008/7/1 18:46
|
|||
|
Re: Liberty Harbor - thoughts?
|
||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Not too shy to talk
![]() ![]() ![]() |
A bit too far for my taste.
Posted on: 2008/7/1 18:19
|
|||
|