wibbit wrote:
when defining downtown, i consider those 3 locations:
-newport
-paulus hook
-grove path

I wouldnt want to live further out down newark ave, i know technically they are considered downtown but it's not a desirable location. Probably will pick jsq path over that.

Quote:

regulator wrote:

you lost her after this part. it's a lost cause for most of these posters. i think the problem is their distorted view of what jersey city and downtown are. to them, downtown means specifically their neighborhood. now if you live in newport or paulus hook - then of course, youd be proud to call downtown your own. but to suggest that anything near the turnpike (even if it's on the correct side) is 'downtown' is preposterous.. that CANT be downtown. only the good stuff is downtown, and everything that isn't downtown is bad.

well you know what? there are bad areas of downtown too, whether you like it or not (wayne and barrow? most of newark ave at night?) if you want to stay on your high horse, then talk about your individual neighborhood. im sure it's very nice. but just as you have nice neighborhoods in downtown, other portions of the city have nice parts in theirs (heights - western slope; greenville - country village; bergen lafayette, etc.).

if you lived in any of these places, youd find relatively little crime, good transportation and a high quality of life. yet, you'd be hard pressed to find any of the residents of these areas screaming for a wall to isolate the rest of the (heights/bergen/greenville) from their neighborhood. why do you think that is?

instead of clamoring for safer streets because you pay more, take some time to realize that there are other sections of jc as well, and we're all committed to seeing the city improve.

regulator wrote:

you lost her after this part. it's a lost cause for most of these posters. i think the problem is their distorted view of what jersey city and downtown are. to them, downtown means specifically their neighborhood. now if you live in newport or paulus hook - then of course, youd be proud to call downtown your own. but to suggest that anything near the turnpike (even if it's on the correct side) is 'downtown' is preposterous.. that CANT be downtown. only the good stuff is downtown, and everything that isn't downtown is bad.

well you know what? there are bad areas of downtown too, whether you like it or not (wayne and barrow? most of newark ave at night?) if you want to stay on your high horse, then talk about your individual neighborhood. im sure it's very nice. but just as you have nice neighborhoods in downtown, other portions of the city have nice parts in theirs (heights - western slope; greenville - country village; bergen lafayette, etc.).

if you lived in any of these places, youd find relatively little crime, good transportation and a high quality of life. yet, you'd be hard pressed to find any of the residents of these areas screaming for a wall to isolate the rest of the (heights/bergen/greenville) from their neighborhood. why do you think that is?

instead of clamoring for safer streets because you pay more, take some time to realize that there are other sections of jc as well, and we're all committed to seeing the city improve.

T-Bird wrote:
Laughable. If Healy (or any mayor) did to Jersey City what Giulaini did to NY, he'd be shot. Wow - Rudy cleaned up Times Square and various rougher sections of Manhattan and essentially moved it to Queens and Brooklyn. Can you imagine the posts on this site if a JC mayor forced any undesirable activity out of downtown and it all showed up a short while later in the Heights?

Look it up Wibbit - crime went down nationally and if you look at NYC as a whole and not just the disneyfied midtown/times square area, the story wasn't unusual relative to the rest of the nation.

Quote:

wibbit wrote:
This is just flat out false. Guiliani's (and his police heads) success in cleaning up nyc is undeniable, nyc will not be what it is today without his action. For all his faults and the shameful 9/11 plugs in the 08 election, Guiliani's contribution to cleanup nyc is historical, even more amazing is the fast pace it is accomplished.

tanze_des_lasters wrote:
Madam, have you ever left the ?safe haven? of downtown to explore the rest of the city? I live in an area you would like to see cut off from yours

.....If they could build a wall between downtown and everything beyond the turnpike it would be grand. When a neighborhood has garbage, graffiti, no trees, loud music, people loitering on every stoop and homes that have metal gates on their front windows - you cannot deny that aesthetically it translates that this hood is bad. Go call a waaambulance.

Bogart wrote:
Quote:

mfadam wrote:
How many "shots at police crimes" is it going to take before people realize that things are out of control?

In light of what happened it seems that some serious show of force is necessary. Clearly the existing system is not working at all...

I have the opposite reaction. These shootings occurred because the police were doing their jobs well, taking violent criminals off the streets.

Greenvillechick wrote:
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GnomeGeneral wrote:
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worm wrote:
[quote]
GnomeGeneral wrote:
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worm wrote:
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When a neighborhood has those things its called the suburbs you jackass...move there!

GnomeGeneral wrote:
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worm wrote:
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GnomeGeneral wrote:
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worm wrote:
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My friend lives in a renovated 800 sf condo on 8th St. and pays $8,000 a year in taxes. I highly doubt that anyone from bergen-lafayette or greenville pays remotely as much. No downtown doesn't pay all the city's taxes, but we do pay disproportionately more per square foot then the other hoods of JC. We pay more, because we expect a higher standard of living. Just as someone would pay more to live in West Orange as opposed to East Orange.

Really????well let me show you my tax bill. The argument that someone deserves to be safer just because they pay more is an elitist one and one that I hope the city will overlook. We all deserve more safety. Equally.

Admit it, you pay more, because you moved here once the area had a decent coffee shop, not because the schools showed great improvement and the crime rate dropped.

What really irks me is the way residents from every part of jersey city separate themselves from each other. If you were to look at the city as a whole, you would realize that we are all affected by each others' actions--good and bad.

Show me your tax bill. Oh and I will absolutely admit that I didn't move here for the schools. I don't have any children, but if I did, I would NEVER send them to a public school here. Not because the education is bad, but because I wouldn't want my kid around the riff raff that dwells here. My husband and I moved for one simple reason - proximity to the city and friends. (Neither of us drink coffee by the way) We chose downtown because it has a higher standard of living. Meaning safety, entertainment, restaurants, gyms and it simply looks better. (Yes, aesthetics matter. You can always tell a neighborhood is deteriorating just by looking at it.)

Here's my tax bill. Mind you l live on the west side (near Reed street!!!) and I believe my taxes are slated to go up another +/_ $400.


2009 4 11-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,724.58
2009 3 08-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,724.58
2009 2 05-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,927.13
2009 1 02-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,926.93


I also know people in hamilton park who pay less than half of what I do and own an entire house.

I guess by your rationale, and the aesthetically unpleasant area I supposedly live in, I should be paying less. And maybe being that I own, I should be entitled to more, maybe the city should park a cop right on my doorstep. OH and maid service please......I deserve more.

And if your going to judge how degraded a neighborhood looks like based on aesthetics alone, you probably think Williamsburg is a scary dump.

Still doesn't add up to 8K. Yes, I do think Williamsburg is a dump. I would rather live in downtown JC than with a bunch of pansy hipsters who stick up for the lowlives of their hood like you do. Oh and I do attend city hall meetings, but you guessed it...only when they pertain to downtown living. If they could build a wall between downtown and everything beyond the turnpike it would be grand. When a neighborhood has garbage, graffiti, no trees, loud music, people loitering on every stoop and homes that have metal gates on their front windows - you cannot deny that aesthetically it translates that this hood is bad. Go call a waaambulance.

GnomeGeneral wrote:
Quote:

worm wrote:
Quote:

GnomeGeneral wrote:
Quote:

worm wrote:
Quote:

My friend lives in a renovated 800 sf condo on 8th St. and pays $8,000 a year in taxes. I highly doubt that anyone from bergen-lafayette or greenville pays remotely as much. No downtown doesn't pay all the city's taxes, but we do pay disproportionately more per square foot then the other hoods of JC. We pay more, because we expect a higher standard of living. Just as someone would pay more to live in West Orange as opposed to East Orange.

Really????well let me show you my tax bill. The argument that someone deserves to be safer just because they pay more is an elitist one and one that I hope the city will overlook. We all deserve more safety. Equally.

Admit it, you pay more, because you moved here once the area had a decent coffee shop, not because the schools showed great improvement and the crime rate dropped.

What really irks me is the way residents from every part of jersey city separate themselves from each other. If you were to look at the city as a whole, you would realize that we are all affected by each others' actions--good and bad.

Show me your tax bill. Oh and I will absolutely admit that I didn't move here for the schools. I don't have any children, but if I did, I would NEVER send them to a public school here. Not because the education is bad, but because I wouldn't want my kid around the riff raff that dwells here. My husband and I moved for one simple reason - proximity to the city and friends. (Neither of us drink coffee by the way) We chose downtown because it has a higher standard of living. Meaning safety, entertainment, restaurants, gyms and it simply looks better. (Yes, aesthetics matter. You can always tell a neighborhood is deteriorating just by looking at it.)

Here's my tax bill. Mind you l live on the west side (near Reed street!!!) and I believe my taxes are slated to go up another +/_ $400.


2009 4 11-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,724.58
2009 3 08-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,724.58
2009 2 05-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,927.13
2009 1 02-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,926.93


I also know people in hamilton park who pay less than half of what I do and own an entire house.

I guess by your rationale, and the aesthetically unpleasant area I supposedly live in, I should be paying less. And maybe being that I own, I should be entitled to more, maybe the city should park a cop right on my doorstep. OH and maid service please......I deserve more.

And if your going to judge how degraded a neighborhood looks like based on aesthetics alone, you probably think Williamsburg is a scary dump.

Still doesn't add up to 8K. Yes, I do think Williamsburg is a dump. I would rather live in downtown JC than with a bunch of pansy hipsters who stick up for the lowlives of their hood like you do. Oh and I do attend city hall meetings, but you guessed it...only when they pertain to downtown living. If they could build a wall between downtown and everything beyond the turnpike it would be grand. When a neighborhood has garbage, graffiti, no trees, loud music, people loitering on every stoop and homes that have metal gates on their front windows - you cannot deny that aesthetically it translates that this hood is bad. Go call a waaambulance.

worm wrote:
Quote:

GnomeGeneral wrote:
Quote:

worm wrote:
Quote:

My friend lives in a renovated 800 sf condo on 8th St. and pays $8,000 a year in taxes. I highly doubt that anyone from bergen-lafayette or greenville pays remotely as much. No downtown doesn't pay all the city's taxes, but we do pay disproportionately more per square foot then the other hoods of JC. We pay more, because we expect a higher standard of living. Just as someone would pay more to live in West Orange as opposed to East Orange.

Really????well let me show you my tax bill. The argument that someone deserves to be safer just because they pay more is an elitist one and one that I hope the city will overlook. We all deserve more safety. Equally.

Admit it, you pay more, because you moved here once the area had a decent coffee shop, not because the schools showed great improvement and the crime rate dropped.

What really irks me is the way residents from every part of jersey city separate themselves from each other. If you were to look at the city as a whole, you would realize that we are all affected by each others' actions--good and bad.

Show me your tax bill. Oh and I will absolutely admit that I didn't move here for the schools. I don't have any children, but if I did, I would NEVER send them to a public school here. Not because the education is bad, but because I wouldn't want my kid around the riff raff that dwells here. My husband and I moved for one simple reason - proximity to the city and friends. (Neither of us drink coffee by the way) We chose downtown because it has a higher standard of living. Meaning safety, entertainment, restaurants, gyms and it simply looks better. (Yes, aesthetics matter. You can always tell a neighborhood is deteriorating just by looking at it.)

Here's my tax bill. Mind you l live on the west side (near Reed street!!!) and I believe my taxes are slated to go up another +/_ $400.


2009 4 11-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,724.58
2009 3 08-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,724.58
2009 2 05-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,927.13
2009 1 02-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,926.93


I also know people in hamilton park who pay less than half of what I do and own an entire house.

I guess by your rationale, and the aesthetically unpleasant area I supposedly live in, I should be paying less. And maybe being that I own, I should be entitled to more, maybe the city should park a cop right on my doorstep. OH and maid service please......I deserve more.

And if your going to judge how degraded a neighborhood looks like based on aesthetics alone, you probably think Williamsburg is a scary dump.

JCSHEP wrote:
The wiki article on this is pretty interesting and shows both sides: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixing_Broken_Windows

mfadam wrote:
How many "shots at police crimes" is it going to take before people realize that things are out of control?

In light of what happened it seems that some serious show of force is necessary. Clearly the existing system is not working at all...

worm wrote:
Quote:

GnomeGeneral wrote:
Quote:

worm wrote:
Quote:

My friend lives in a renovated 800 sf condo on 8th St. and pays $8,000 a year in taxes. I highly doubt that anyone from bergen-lafayette or greenville pays remotely as much. No downtown doesn't pay all the city's taxes, but we do pay disproportionately more per square foot then the other hoods of JC. We pay more, because we expect a higher standard of living. Just as someone would pay more to live in West Orange as opposed to East Orange.

Really????well let me show you my tax bill. The argument that someone deserves to be safer just because they pay more is an elitist one and one that I hope the city will overlook. We all deserve more safety. Equally.

Admit it, you pay more, because you moved here once the area had a decent coffee shop, not because the schools showed great improvement and the crime rate dropped.

What really irks me is the way residents from every part of jersey city separate themselves from each other. If you were to look at the city as a whole, you would realize that we are all affected by each others' actions--good and bad.

Show me your tax bill. Oh and I will absolutely admit that I didn't move here for the schools. I don't have any children, but if I did, I would NEVER send them to a public school here. Not because the education is bad, but because I wouldn't want my kid around the riff raff that dwells here. My husband and I moved for one simple reason - proximity to the city and friends. (Neither of us drink coffee by the way) We chose downtown because it has a higher standard of living. Meaning safety, entertainment, restaurants, gyms and it simply looks better. (Yes, aesthetics matter. You can always tell a neighborhood is deteriorating just by looking at it.)

Here's my tax bill. Mind you l live on the west side (near Reed street!!!) and I believe my taxes are slated to go up another +/_ $400.


2009 4 11-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,724.58
2009 3 08-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,724.58
2009 2 05-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,927.13
2009 1 02-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,926.93


I also know people in hamilton park who pay less than half of what I do and own an entire house.

I guess by your rationale, and the aesthetically unpleasant area I supposedly live in, I should be paying less. And maybe being that I own, I should be entitled to more, maybe the city should park a cop right on my doorstep. OH and maid service please......I deserve more.

And if your going to judge how degraded a neighborhood looks like based on aesthetics alone, you probably think Williamsburg is a scary dump.

My husband and I moved for one simple reason - proximity to the city and friends.

GnomeGeneral wrote:
Quote:

worm wrote:
Quote:

My friend lives in a renovated 800 sf condo on 8th St. and pays $8,000 a year in taxes. I highly doubt that anyone from bergen-lafayette or greenville pays remotely as much. No downtown doesn't pay all the city's taxes, but we do pay disproportionately more per square foot then the other hoods of JC. We pay more, because we expect a higher standard of living. Just as someone would pay more to live in West Orange as opposed to East Orange.

Really????well let me show you my tax bill. The argument that someone deserves to be safer just because they pay more is an elitist one and one that I hope the city will overlook. We all deserve more safety. Equally.

Admit it, you pay more, because you moved here once the area had a decent coffee shop, not because the schools showed great improvement and the crime rate dropped.

What really irks me is the way residents from every part of jersey city separate themselves from each other. If you were to look at the city as a whole, you would realize that we are all affected by each others' actions--good and bad.

Show me your tax bill. Oh and I will absolutely admit that I didn't move here for the schools. I don't have any children, but if I did, I would NEVER send them to a public school here. Not because the education is bad, but because I wouldn't want my kid around the riff raff that dwells here. My husband and I moved for one simple reason - proximity to the city and friends. (Neither of us drink coffee by the way) We chose downtown because it has a higher standard of living. Meaning safety, entertainment, restaurants, gyms and it simply looks better. (Yes, aesthetics matter. You can always tell a neighborhood is deteriorating just by looking at it.)

T-Bird wrote:
Laughable. If Healy (or any mayor) did to Jersey City what Giulaini did to NY, he'd be shot. Wow - Rudy cleaned up Times Square and various rougher sections of Manhattan and essentially moved it to Queens and Brooklyn. Can you imagine the posts on this site if a JC mayor forced any undesirable activity out of downtown and it all showed up a short while later in the Heights?

Look it up Wibbit - crime went down nationally and if you look at NYC as a whole and not just the disneyfied midtown/times square area, the story wasn't unusual relative to the rest of the nation.

T-Bird wrote:
Laughable. If Healy (or any mayor) did to Jersey City what Giulaini did to NY, he'd be shot. Wow - Rudy cleaned up Times Square and various rougher sections of Manhattan and essentially moved it to Queens and Brooklyn. Can you imagine the posts on this site if a JC mayor forced any undesirable activity out of downtown and it all showed up a short while later in the Heights?

Look it up Wibbit - crime went down nationally and if you look at NYC as a whole and not just the disneyfied midtown/times square area, the story wasn't unusual relative to the rest of the nation.

Quote:

wibbit wrote:
This is just flat out false. Guiliani's (and his police heads) success in cleaning up nyc is undeniable, nyc will not be what it is today without his action. For all his faults and the shameful 9/11 plugs in the 08 election, Guiliani's contribution to cleanup nyc is historical, even more amazing is the fast pace it is accomplished.

wibbit wrote:
This is just flat out false. Guiliani's (and his police heads) success in cleaning up nyc is undeniable, nyc will not be what it is today without his action. For all his faults and the shameful 9/11 plugs in the 08 election, Guiliani's contribution to cleanup nyc is historical, even more amazing is the fast pace it is accomplished.

marybarr wrote:
He (Giuliani) didn't clean up NYC just the Times Square area. Those folk were basically harmless addicts, homeless and hookers, and they moved not so far away.

Vigilante you said most criminals are not artists, check these out: prisonartsfoundation.com and prisonsfoundation.org and prisonartgallery.com there are many more.

worm wrote:
Quote:

My friend lives in a renovated 800 sf condo on 8th St. and pays $8,000 a year in taxes. I highly doubt that anyone from bergen-lafayette or greenville pays remotely as much. No downtown doesn't pay all the city's taxes, but we do pay disproportionately more per square foot then the other hoods of JC. We pay more, because we expect a higher standard of living. Just as someone would pay more to live in West Orange as opposed to East Orange.

Really????well let me show you my tax bill. The argument that someone deserves to be safer just because they pay more is an elitist one and one that I hope the city will overlook. We all deserve more safety. Equally.

Admit it, you pay more, because you moved here once the area had a decent coffee shop, not because the schools showed great improvement and the crime rate dropped.

What really irks me is the way residents from every part of jersey city separate themselves from each other. If you were to look at the city as a whole, you would realize that we are all affected by each others' actions--good and bad.

alanwright wrote: Quote:

Greenvillechick wrote: If anyone has a right to complain it's people who live in bergen lafayette and greenville. And whether you pay 2000 a month or 700 a month you should be safe no matter what... that is just appaling that you think that since you pay more you should have more safety F.O.H.

Sorry. Everyone has a right to complain. It's enshrined in the First Amendment. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Bergen Hill, Lafayette, Greenville, The Heights... they have bigger problems and should be more vocal politically, demand more from the City, expect more from their community, and do more for themselves. But, that's quite a challenge. Unfortunately, they may speak, vote, expect, and do less as a result.

JerseyCityNj wrote:
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GnomeGeneral wrote:
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ianmac47 wrote:
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GnomeGeneral wrote:
We pay all your taxes,

Actually no. This is a faulty argument because most of the property in the downtown is significantly undervalued for the purposes of property taxes. While all properties in the city are undervalued, the downtown property values have increased at a faster rate, so are presently underpaying their share of property taxes.

However, what the downtown money does do is create low skill jobs as which would otherwise not exist in the city. And it also creates a safe haven, which hard as it is to believe, includes diverse income levels. Yes, poor people still do live interspersed throughout the downtown and benefit from safer streets, better schools, better services. And as the gentrified downtown expands, will begin to raise property values and expand the bubble further west.

But the one thing that is not true is that the downtown does not pay "all your taxes."

My friend lives in a renovated 800 sf condo on 8th St. and pays $8,000 a year in taxes. I highly doubt that anyone from bergen-lafayette or greenville pays remotely as much. No downtown doesn't pay all the city's taxes, but we do pay disproportionately more per square foot then the other hoods of JC. We pay more, because we expect a higher standard of living. Just as someone would pay more to live in West Orange as opposed to East Orange.

Type in Country Village Rd for the street and Jersey City where the city goes and you will see almost the whole street pays the same amount as your friend.
http://www.starledger.com/str/indexpage/taxes/taxstreet.asp

And this is in Greenville by the way.

ianmac47 wrote:

In retrospect, Guiliani's success was less about anything he did and a lot more about national trends, a roaring economic expansion