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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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There was an ice cream truck/van selling ice cream near PS# 25 School up in the Heights. The owner lived near the school on Kennedy Blvd. in order to keep his stock frozen he would run an extention cord from the his house out the front door, across the sidewalk draped over the curb and then along the curb on Kennedy plugged into his truck. He would also put a carpet over it so no one would trip on it during the day while walking as he conducted business. It took a while but I and a few residents from the area put a stop to it. We called the Mayor's office, police dept., fire dept., housing code authority, and fire prevention inspector. What a liability and death trap this would of amounted to. He finally stopped the over night parking but treid to still conduct daytime business but I believed that was quelled as well.
Posted on: 2013/8/9 16:17
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Get on your bikes and ride !
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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Maybe I'm cherrypicking a counterexample, but the taco truck isn't really cheaper than Ginfi or Taqueria. Price isn't necessarily the main advantage of the food trucks -- I'd argue that mobility and being able to offer a limited, focused menu (instead of trying to please everyone) are equally important.
If Brick and Mortar places are losing business to the trucks, it's at least as much about quality and convenience as it is about price, if not more. Quote:
Posted on: 2013/8/9 16:16
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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Commercial vehicles are not allowed to park on the streets overnight. Someone who has been around as long as you should know that. But if you want to talk about parking, maybe its time to ask important questions like why is street parking so cheap to begin with? Why do people without cars pay to subsidize free / cheap street parking? Why not auction all the street spaces off to the highest bidder?
Posted on: 2013/8/9 15:23
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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If a truck parked overnight in residential zones and wasn't a resident, I wouldn't be happy about it. But that is an entirely separate issue, and the way it stands now, nonresidents only get ticketed or booted for parking in residential zones during the day. As for your first question about food trucks parking in a limited parking business district, that's also another issue. It's not just food trucks that park in business districts, all other kinds of vehicles park there as well and hog spaces - repairmen, delivery vehicles, postal vehicles, etc. As long as the proper regulations exist to prevent any real problems, why single out the food trucks? There are plenty of other types of vehicles that cause parking issues. But that's what you have to deal with when you live or have a business in a city. Here's my question for you - what if the owner of a food truck regularly conducted his business downtown, perhaps caused issues with parking while doing so but was a Jersey City resident, living elsewhere in the city, paying taxes and spending money at other local businesses ? Isn't he a "primary stakeholder" in Jersey City whose interests should be protected as well?
Posted on: 2013/8/9 15:21
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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fallacy. no one is manipulating parking. a business that paid for their permit is utilizing it. parking during the day is actually a lot easier downtown, as many people live there and commute to other locations for work. also there are 14 public parking lots in downtown JC according to ye olde google, so if one desperately needed to park, one could pay the very low rates that most of these places charge: http://goo.gl/maps/GgYqJ Quote: What would be the consequence if any truck started to park overnight in residential zones that wasn't a resident slippery slope. they'd get ticketed and towed, since they didn't have a permit. last i checked, trucks, semis, etc can't get street parking permits in a residential neighborhood, so this is a non-issue. also they wouldn't want to street park overnight due to security and vandalism reasons. Quote: Should we protect the needs of residents they are already. Quote: Why should a resident have parking zones and downtown businesses have no zones composition fallacy. they have and serve different needs. residential areas have zoned parking because the residents need a place to park overnight and in some cases, to ensure that commuters aren't using the streets as a parking lot halfway en route to their final destination. business districts have no need for the overnight concern, and the commuting issue has been solved by the existence of large parking lots. in short, there is no problem. people in cars aren't going around honking at the food trucks demanding they give up their parking spot because there's nowhere else to park. Quote: With property and land taxes, shouldn't cityhall and government step in and protect their primary stakeholders ? all this is a bunch of red herrings. protection != favoritism over another business. in order to run a food truck, one must purchase licenses and permits from city hall and the government. the trucks have just as much stake as anyone else.
Posted on: 2013/8/9 15:09
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Lets forget about the food truck vs bricks and mortar debate for a second and focus on the fact that you have a business manipulating the parking in a heavily concentrated and limited parking business district - Is it fair ? What would be the consequence if any truck started to park overnight in residential zones that wasn't a resident ? Should we protect the needs of residents ? Why should a resident have parking zones and downtown businesses have no zones ? With property and land taxes, shouldn't cityhall and government step in and protect their primary stakeholders ?
Posted on: 2013/8/9 14:27
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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I said it before and I'll say it again - this is a capitalist economy. You either learn how to compete and make your business successful, or you get out of business. The owners of the restaurants that set up shop knew that food trucks existed in Jersey City, yet they still chose to take the risk of opening a business. Should we get rid of coin-operated newspaper machines too, because they take business away from the neighborhood convenience stores? What restaurant do you own anyway? It must be terrible, if it suffers from the competition of food trucks. Let me add one more thing here that is sort of related - something I can't stand is restaurant and shop owners who say something to the effect of "when the whole neighborhood went downhill and deteriorated, I STAYED because I BELIEVED in my neighborhood and cared about my community, I didn't leave my customers behind and move to suburbia", etc. etc., and then feel they are entitled to some kind of special treatment. That is all just total BS. Any owner of a restaurant or shop that stayed in a neighorhood chose to stay because there was money to be made. There is nothing wrong with wanting to make money, but "choosing to stay" doesn't make them a candidate for sainthood, and we all know that they did not choose to stay out of the goodness of their hearts. If there was no money to be made, they would be gone from the neighborhood almost as fast as a food truck would be.
Posted on: 2013/8/9 14:12
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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Dolomiti, Governments always regulate businesses and 'interfere', and they do it in numerous ways - Ever heard of abatements - note how JC gave tax abatements to some developers while others didn't get any 'hand-out', copyright laws, subsidies, financial bailouts - note how the government DID bailout some businesses while allowing others to go bankrupt AIG as a classic example), concessions, fair trading laws and yes other states and cities are regulating food trucks on when, where and how long they can trade in an area for.
In relation to parking permits for food trucks, I'm surprised its allowed in JC as many cities do not allow this in their Business Districts; it has a negative impact on all businesses and I hope the powers that be in JC read this thread and make changes - My understanding is that street parking is for public use and for stakeholders to the area with a priority to businesses and residents that pay taxes. I would suggest that cityhall is complicit and compounding the problem with these 'city parking permits' in business districts. On my research, I believe the best solution would be to either have food trucks required to move as per the time restricted parking signs like everyone else, plus a distance buffer to bricks and mortar establishments (which many cities have adopted through legislation) OR allow them to ONLY operate from private properties (private car park lots etc) This news reader got it at the end if though she sounds not to be biased - The food trucks dig their own graves by swamping business districts and taking desperately needed parking away from others businesses too.
Posted on: 2013/8/9 13:15
Edited by fat-ass-bike on 2013/8/9 13:45:14
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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What does that have to do with anything? Quote: I still believe the city should step in and create a level playing field..... 1) Food trucks are already regulated. 2) It's not the job of government to interfere in this way. 3) Food trucks are at disadvantages, since their kitchens are much more limited, and they offer no seating. Quote: Parking is time restricted for all stakeholders of an area... If you've got a city parking permit, you can stay in a spot for days in a row. Quote: image if I was a competitor to YOUR business and parked my vehicle (be it 4 or 5 trucks) for a period of time that directly impacted YOUR high transaction customer turnover period Then I'd better step up, and offer something the trucks don't. Face it, you cannot eradicate competition, and it's not the job of government to protect one commercial interest over another. Business is business. If you don't like it, find another line of work.
Posted on: 2013/8/9 11:35
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wow. I didn't know food trucks would end civilization as we know it. thanks for the insight.
all this time I was preparing for Zombies. I will now change course and prepare for the Food Truck Apocalypse. Quote:
Posted on: 2013/8/9 1:51
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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Another oversight with food trucks is parking - Parking is time restricted for all stakeholders of an area; its not exclusive to restaurants or general stores but be made available to every business on every level of every skyscraper plus every other amenities in that area.
Time restricted parking was to give customers to every business in the area the opportunity to park their car, it also gave every business to have a parking spot for their customers to use - Ticket machines, meters and time restricted parking was introduced to force people to share (does everyone remember that concept - Sharing) What food trucks inadvertently do not do, is SHARE that parking space when using ON STREET parking. Now image if I was a competitor to YOUR business and parked my vehicle (be it 4 or 5 trucks) for a period of time that directly impacted YOUR high transaction customer turnover period. Would your business suffer, would your customers have a space to park, would OTHER businesses in the area be impacted with MY trucks sitting in public parking spots all day? Now imagine if a petition was drafted will all the issues associated with food trucks relating to on-street parking and 'other concerns' such as worse case scenarios; McDonald trucks and trucks outside schools etc. The petition was then distributed to each and every business within the vicinity of food trucks. This petition had a solution that pointed these trucks to off-street parking or purpose built off-street food truck hubs that mandated only independent operators could use it with a clause about that would void any junk unhealthy foods being sold. On that petition it had an email address and phone number to cityhall to voice their protest of the situation. I wonder what percentage of businesses and / or employees would make that call, remember the next time they or their customers where driving around the block looking for parking, thinking of what their kids ate at school or how a business could be predatory targeted via the simple act of parking. Has any seen food truck operator use their private cars to protect their truck spots and manipulate parking - I have and I have seen parking rage between a guy who just wanted to park his car and a guy standing in the parking bay waiting for his food truck to arrive. There is a much bigger picture and problem then just food trucks selling from food from the curb
Posted on: 2013/8/9 1:21
Edited by fat-ass-bike on 2013/8/9 1:47:09
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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Obviously some people have no idea how to do market research, risk management, developing a business plan, knowing your competition, cash flow prediction, customer demographics for your service and product, history of your location and future planning of the location.
There are investigative firms that will do all the leg work in this area of starting a new business. Its quite evident why so many businesses fail in the first 1-3 years of starting - The response on JClist highlight this clearly. I bet that it will not be too long before we have some sort of feud between food trucks and bricks and mortar establishments - one will blame the other for any failings. I still believe the city should step in and create a level playing field with rules and regulations so they can BOTH exist with clear boundaries. if not, I'd love to be an investor for a mobile McDonalds, Subway or KFC food truck and stick in the heart of other food trucks downtown - I bet other food trucks would be the first to complain, arguing that only independent or healthy food trucks be allowed to operate.
Posted on: 2013/8/9 0:27
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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Home by the Range was first, so you might actually make a good argument that his food truck actually tested the market for local organic prepared food, and this business owes the truck a debt of gratitude for demonstrating viability. Hell, if you wanted to get on Fat-Ass-Bike's crazy train, you could probably even say something like, "oh I bet they have an in at the bank and found out what food trucks were banking the most cash and decided to open a business just like it"
Posted on: 2013/8/8 15:09
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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http://www.docomarketcafe.com/ What about the food store on McWilliams Pl. in Hamilton Square near the park ?
Posted on: 2013/8/8 14:35
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Get on your bikes and ride !
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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That probably explains why most food trucks are involved in some kind of experimental food, often a fusion food fad that is unavailable anywhere else. The Krave truck, fusion Korean - Mexican tacos, obviously was competing with all the other Korean Mexican taco shops on Grove Street, which explains why there are no more Korean Mexican taco shops. Could you list for me all the Korean taco shops in Jersey City that closed because of the Krave truck, I seem to be at a loss. And its probably the fault of Home by the Range that there are no other local organic restaurants in Jersey City, because the one truck put all of them out of business-- I just can't think of any of the local organic restaurants that used to operate here before he showed up. Would you mind listing them all? I mean, since now there are NONE, I imagine that food truck must have really decimated their thriving business.
Posted on: 2013/8/8 14:05
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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The irony here is that if something like this were to happen, it would be legitimate threat to the businesses complaining about trucks vending in the street. Suddenly, instead of having a portable food option that mostly targets individuals and that doesn't offer any kind of dining experience, a food truck court would become the sort of destination that would be a genuine attraction, offer the equivalent of a sit down meal, and appeal to a broader range of people. So yeah, that would probably be a great thing to happen because not only would it create something to draw people into down Jersey City -- food trucks are hugely popular -- but it would be a nice F U to whining store owners.
Posted on: 2013/8/8 13:49
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1) Food trucks are small businesses. 2) It is not "fair play" to use the law to favor one group of businesses over another. 3) There's nothing wrong with competition. 4) If I open a cheap take-out restaurant next to two other more expensive restaurants, am I an "opportunity" who "creates victims?" Quote: I don't mind food trucks so long as they don't affect other businesses in the immediate area. We live in a society that allows competition. It's not the job of the government to micro-manage the types of competition businesses can face. Should Home Depot have been denied a permit because of the smaller hardware stores in the area? Have those stores all been put out of business? Should we shut down the ShopRite in Newport, because it potentially affects other businesses in the area? Quote: I like the idea of a food truck association being developed for JC that buys land and sets-up a location off street.... I.e. you want the vans to open miniature restaurants? You really aren't clear on the concept, are you? Quote: At the moment JC needs to control an unbalanced playing field as they have and done in many other cities across the US and abroad.... No, they don't. It's not the job of the city to pick winners and losers in commercial endeavors. Their job is to make sure the vans are clean, and don't become a nuisance. Quote: How often do JClister whine about restaurants closing dt.... Given how much JCListers like to whine? Not much. No one blamed the closure of It's Greek to Me on food trucks. People are apparently quite happy about new restaurants like Roman Nose, Orale, Thirty Acres etc, all of which compete with existing restaurants, and according to your standards, are thus "creating victims."
Posted on: 2013/8/8 13:23
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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you sir are the dumbest of dumbs
welcome to FAB's world, everyone. where every guy who wants to start a mobile business is a mafia don with contacts in dozens upon dozens of every local bank branch willing to risk their job for a pinch of info. stand back and marvel at the twists and turns of *cough*intellect*cough* that it takes to come up with this logic. Quote:
Posted on: 2013/8/8 12:59
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Don't be ignorant cory, the next time you use your visa or debit card on a food truck credit machine it will tell you which bank the money is being sent to. Any person from that bank can see how that business is going financially with the amount of cash and online credit deposits they make (computers are used in banks and its that amazing) - ever heard of 6 degrees of seperation or don't you have friends? I can't believe you are so naive or you simply aren't a business person. Hundreds of thousands of new start-up businesses fail every year. The ones that succeed do research and homework before making a financial commitment - This is called BASIC risk management and doing a thorough business plan, thus plan for success. You would have to be an idiot food truck vendor if you didn't research your competition and have an expected cash flow estimate before going into an area to set-up shop
Posted on: 2013/8/8 7:00
Edited by fat-ass-bike on 2013/8/8 7:29:54
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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Once the door is Open -
Lets have KFC, McDonalds, Duncan Donuts and the like as food trucks (they will be colorful, clean and provide great service) they will have the financial strength to outwit, outplay any private food truck. If you think people will not go to them, think again, they generate BILLIONS with their fast food and would love to park in areas they can't normally get into. Better still, lets allow them to park outside schools!  
Posted on: 2013/8/8 1:32
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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I think the brick and mortar restaurants that can't compete with a food truck should be out of business anyway. If anything, the food trucks ensure that mediocrity will not sit long in this city.
Posted on: 2013/8/8 1:13
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I like the idea of social justice, a sense of fair play, stopping bullies, preventing small businesses from collapsing, opportunists that create victims, parity etc.
I don't mind food trucks so long as they don't affect other businesses in the immediate area; The two groups have extremely different running costs, overheads and standards As I said before, I like the idea of a food truck association being developed for JC that buys land and sets-up a location off street - A food truck hub where they compete amongst themselves and if they can get clients to their location via marketing, goodwill and service more power to them. At the moment JC needs to control an unbalanced playing field as they have and done in many other cities across the US and abroad - At the moment brick and mortar establishments can't compete on price with their overheads and are firing staff and closing shop - Unregulated food trucks that operate wherever do cause or play a role directly or indirectly in is why some businesses close; it happens everyday. How often do JClister whine about restaurants closing dt; The cause and effect is more then just one thing! Food trucks could find a loop-hole by rents private car park spaces on ground level!
Posted on: 2013/8/8 1:08
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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Come clean, man - why do you hate food trucks so much? Does it really affect your quality of life? I cannot imagine why it bothers you so much - it starting to sound like you are just prejudiced.
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Posted on: 2013/8/8 0:43
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Boris you can't be that stupid - Food truck operators, if they half a brain will do market research like any other business. They will also look VERY closely to any city ordanance that allows them to trade cheaper then their competitor and / or give them an edge to under price a similar service. If I was a food truck operator, I'd have a contact in the banking industry to see which bricks and mortar restuarants were doing well via bank deposits etc to give me a good tip off, which is like insider trading......wake up boris, this siht actual happens and people become rich becauise they do due diligence and heaps of research on their competition and WILL piggy-back on other peoples success.
Posted on: 2013/8/8 0:30
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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Who cares about the dichotomy? First, it is a plain wrong idea. fat-ass-bike obviously believes that a business operates like a hunter-gatherer: finds a place with many berries, picks them all, moves to the next one.
Posted on: 2013/8/8 0:01
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False dichotomy. You really should stop generalizing, it just makes you look dumber than you already are. They also pay their permit fees and licenses the same as anyone else who wants to open a business.
Posted on: 2013/8/7 18:30
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Using your logic, we should deny people having residential permit zones - Food vans are not stakeholders in the community and don't pay property taxes, rents etc We can express our views but we on JClist aren't making the final decision on any food van regulations. Who know JC might end up as the food van capital of the world ..... but doubt it very much!
Posted on: 2013/8/7 17:13
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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the trucks are parked like every other vehicle in a parking spot.
Posted on: 2013/8/7 17:06
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"Numerous reasons" - parking is one of those numerous reasons
I also believe food vans should be paying rent for using the sidewalk to conduct their business from and a levy for trash can use and food spillage - Bricks and mortar spend a small fortune on trash removal per year. We could even look at increased pigeon numbers and waste - I've seen food van operators dump food out at the end of the day like they are doing some sort of favor to the local bird population. It a no brainer that food vans zero in and poach in bricks and mortar establishments, then claim its a service - You might be able to bullshit some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time and that's why they get regulated and controlled by cityhall.
Posted on: 2013/8/7 16:54
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Re: Save the Food Trucks of Jersey City
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ha, oh now you care about parking? shifting the goal posts much? brick and mortar restaurants take up more parking..
Posted on: 2013/8/7 16:40
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