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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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Azul_the_Cat wrote:
It means we're up the creek without a paddle unless Yvonne can come to our rescue.


I guess we will see how many JC residents will support this sanctuary status when their taxes and rents start going up

Posted on: 2017/2/1 20:08
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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It means we're up the creek without a paddle unless Yvonne can come to our rescue.

Posted on: 2017/2/1 19:48
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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The city's 2017 budget process has not started, Trump said he would withhold funds to sanctuary cities. What does that mean for our local budget as well as the school budget? This administration must come up with those figures, now.

Posted on: 2017/2/1 19:04
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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know_your_history wrote:
at least since WWII


you're kidding right?

Posted on: 2017/2/1 18:32
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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JCMan8 wrote:
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Azul_the_Cat wrote:
Perhaps "ally" is a bit much when it comes to China, but either way we need them to get along with us. Maybe Frenemy is a better term.


Maybe so, but it invalidates your point.

The point is that countries like Saudi Arabia are not on the list (even though they should) because they are vital allies to us and we are stuck with them for the time being. Not so for China.

Plus, doing it this way allowed Trump to twist Saudi Arabia's arm into setting up safe zones for the refugees.

And I'd love to see a liberal be honest for once. If those other countries were included, you're telling me you still wouldn't be going nuts over Trump's enactment of his promise to voters? Please.


Don't we need Iraq as an ally? They're doing most of the fighting and dying vs ISIS. Why isn't Afghanistan on the list?

Posted on: 2017/2/1 18:20
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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Monroe wrote:
'Angering our allies' 'like China and Mexico'?

Since when is China our ally??


at least since WWII

Posted on: 2017/2/1 17:54
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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JCMan8 wrote:
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JSleeze wrote:

Again, the Iraq action was tied to a specific threat that. No such threat or similar rationale has been provided for Trump's ban - just an "I don't like the looks of those guys" (to put it kindly) type of thing..


Spoken like an ignoramus who never actually read the executive order he has such a strong opinion about.


Breathe, Papi. Clearly I've struck a raw nerve - relax. However, I can't help noticing your selective use of the bolding.... You "forgot" the key word - "specific".

spe?cif?ic
sp??sifik/Submit
adjective
1. clearly defined or identified. "increasing the electricity supply only until it met specific development needs"
synonyms: particular, specified, fixed, set, determined, distinct, definite; More
2. BIOLOGY relating to or connected with species or a species.

I'll ask, with no expectation of compliance, for you to re-read the order. Point to one specific (non-general, non-subjective, non-opinion) threat in that order. You won't. You can't, but more to the point, you won't. You'll fulminate. You'll deflect. All the while getting more aroused by the attention. So after finishing here, the floor's all yours. I';

Before going, I'll give you what will undoubtedly serve as the fodder for today's chubby - there was no Iraq ban in 2011. There was a considerable slowdown due to implementation of stricter vetting procedures - the very thing you claim to want.

There was a specific threat tied to the 2011 action: The ?Kentucky case? in May 2011 in which two Iraqis were arrested and faced federal terrorism charges after officials discovered from an informant that Waad Ramadan Alwan, before he had been granted asylum in the United States, had constructed improvised roadside bombs in Iraq. The FBI, after examining fragments from thousands of bomb parts, found Alwan?s fingerprints on a cordless phone that had been wired to detonate an improvised bomb in 2005.

Second, the Obama administration never said it had a policy to halt all applications. Things slowed down considerably but it was never the intent of the administration, nor proclamation, to invoke a ban - consistent with what transpired.

Finally, Obama?s policy did not prevent all citizens of that country, including green-card holders, from traveling to the United States. Trump?s initial policy, as implemented, was far more sweeping.

Separately - what's with your repeated use of "echo chamber"? The conservatives invented it and have used it to great success over the past several decades. Own it. Celebrate it as the effective tool it's become! When did the right adopt the "am not, you are" approach to debate, which was elevated to new heights in Clinton/Trump II (or was it III? I forget) with the memorable "No! You're the puppet"?

I am heartened though by the fact that when you look at the thousands of Trump related posts (for and against) on JCList, it's really fewer than a dozen people who make all the pro Trump noise. Why is that? And why do they care? Government at the moment is clearly aligned in their favor - why not get on with advancing their agenda and celebrate their "successes"? Why do they care so much what we "libtards" and "whiny losers" and our "dishonest media" and/or "facts" and/or "science" have to say?

Posted on: 2017/2/1 16:45
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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There was also no peep when Obama as a lame duck president took away the rights of Cubans to remain here when entering USA soil. They had this special right for 50 years. Now if they reach our soil they must return to Cuba.

Posted on: 2017/2/1 15:52
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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Hey cool! Me and JCMan8 agree on something.

Posted on: 2017/2/1 2:53
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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I remember INS rounding up illegals in NYC in big raids in the eighties. Not a peep from liberals then. How times have changed... I guess libtards need new causes to try and remain relevant. So they are down to illegals and muslims whose inalienable right is to immigrate to America.

Posted on: 2017/2/1 2:29
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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JadedJC wrote:
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manu wrote:
France did indeed use SECAM (thank you for the memories) but it was (arguably) not a protectionist measure. They just pick the wrong standard but had no choice based on the broadcast technology they choose to initially go with...


France has never made an economic or industrial policy decision that wasn't rooted in protectionism or nationalism or a combination of the two. How else do you explain the state continuously bailing out/subsidizing Bull, arguably the WORST computer ever made. Or the continued existence of the Minitel well into the internet era.


The Minitel pre-dated the internet era and had a very broad adoption. I agree it should have disapeared way earlier than it did but I guess France Telecom milked it as long as they could (their monopoly helped), the same way AOL still makes money on dial-up subscriptions..

Posted on: 2017/2/1 2:19
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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manu wrote:
France did indeed use SECAM (thank you for the memories) but it was (arguably) not a protectionist measure. They just pick the wrong standard but had no choice based on the broadcast technology they choose to initially go with...


France has never made an economic or industrial policy decision that wasn't rooted in protectionism or nationalism or a combination of the two. How else do you explain the state continuously bailing out/subsidizing Bull, arguably the WORST computer ever made. Or the continued existence of the Minitel well into the internet era.

Posted on: 2017/2/1 2:09
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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Azul_the_Cat wrote:
I have read the executive order. The only "threat" it mentions is that the rest the world is going to hell, and that means scarry people are going to want to come to the USA. No specific threat. I've taken the liberty to post the actual text from the executive order that pertains to the "threat".

Numerous foreign-born individuals have been convicted or implicated in terrorism-related crimes since September 11, 2001, including foreign nationals who entered the United States after receiving visitor, student, or employment visas, or who entered through the United States refugee resettlement program. Deteriorating conditions in certain countries due to war, strife, disaster, and civil unrest increase the likelihood that terrorists will use any means possible to enter the United States. The United States must be vigilant during the visa-issuance process to ensure that those approved for admission do not intend to harm Americans and that they have no ties to terrorism.

In order to protect Americans, the United States must ensure that those admitted to this country do not bear hostile attitudes toward it and its founding principles. The United States cannot, and should not, admit those who do not support the Constitution, or those who would place violent ideologies over American law. In addition, the United States should not admit those who engage in acts of bigotry or hatred (including "honor" killings, other forms of violence against women, or the persecution of those who practice religions different from their own) or those who would oppress Americans of any race, gender, or sexual orientation.




The ignorant and incorrect claim was that no threat or similar rationale was advanced in order to support the executive order, apart from an "I don't like the looks of those guys" type of thing.

You quoted some, but not everything in the executive order that directly contradicts that. Here is the rationale advanced in order to support the executive order:

The visa-issuance process plays a crucial role in detecting individuals with terrorist ties and stopping them from entering the United States. Perhaps in no instance was that more apparent than the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, when State Department policy prevented consular officers from properly scrutinizing the visa applications of several of the 19 foreign nationals who went on to murder nearly 3,000 Americans. And while the visa-issuance process was reviewed and amended after the September 11 attacks to better detect would-be terrorists from receiving visas, these measures did not stop attacks by foreign nationals who were admitted to the United States.

Numerous foreign-born individuals have been convicted or implicated in terrorism-related crimes since September 11, 2001, including foreign nationals who entered the United States after receiving visitor, student, or employment visas, or who entered through the United States refugee resettlement program. Deteriorating conditions in certain countries due to war, strife, disaster, and civil unrest increase the likelihood that terrorists will use any means possible to enter the United States. The United States must be vigilant during the visa-issuance process to ensure that those approved for admission do not intend to harm Americans and that they have no ties to terrorism.

In order to protect Americans, the United States must ensure that those admitted to this country do not bear hostile attitudes toward it and its founding principles. The United States cannot, and should not, admit those who do not support the Constitution, or those who would place violent ideologies over American law. In addition, the United States should not admit those who engage in acts of bigotry or hatred (including "honor" killings, other forms of violence against women, or the persecution of those who practice religions different from their own) or those who would oppress Americans of any race, gender, or sexual orientation.

. . .

Sec. 4. Implementing Uniform Screening Standards for All Immigration Programs. (a) The Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Director of National Intelligence, and the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation shall implement a program, as part of the adjudication process for immigration benefits, to identify individuals seeking to enter the United States on a fraudulent basis with the intent to cause harm, or who are at risk of causing harm subsequent to their admission. This program will include the development of a uniform screening standard and procedure, such as in-person interviews; a database of identity documents proffered by applicants to ensure that duplicate documents are not used by multiple applicants; amended application forms that include questions aimed at identifying fraudulent answers and malicious intent; a mechanism to ensure that the applicant is who the applicant claims to be; a process to evaluate the applicant's likelihood of becoming a positively contributing member of society and the applicant's ability to make contributions to the national interest; and a mechanism to assess whether or not the applicant has the intent to commit criminal or terrorist acts after entering the United States.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politic ... n-ban-refugees/index.html

Also, are you aware that 6 of the 7 countries targeted by the order are all listed in the top 9 countries in the Global Terrorism Index?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Terrorism_Index

Iran is the only one that is not listed in the top 9.

So, I don't expect you to support Trump's executive order, but there was plenty of justification behind it apart from "he didn't like the way they looked." It is evident JSleeze didn't spend 2 seconds to actually read the executive order, though I'm sure he'll never admit it. Just an ignoramus.

Posted on: 2017/2/1 2:09
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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I have read the executive order. The only "threat" it mentions is that the rest the world is going to hell, and that means scarry people are going to want to come to the USA. No specific threat. I've taken the liberty to post the actual text from the executive order that pertains to the "threat".

Numerous foreign-born individuals have been convicted or implicated in terrorism-related crimes since September 11, 2001, including foreign nationals who entered the United States after receiving visitor, student, or employment visas, or who entered through the United States refugee resettlement program. Deteriorating conditions in certain countries due to war, strife, disaster, and civil unrest increase the likelihood that terrorists will use any means possible to enter the United States. The United States must be vigilant during the visa-issuance process to ensure that those approved for admission do not intend to harm Americans and that they have no ties to terrorism.

In order to protect Americans, the United States must ensure that those admitted to this country do not bear hostile attitudes toward it and its founding principles. The United States cannot, and should not, admit those who do not support the Constitution, or those who would place violent ideologies over American law. In addition, the United States should not admit those who engage in acts of bigotry or hatred (including "honor" killings, other forms of violence against women, or the persecution of those who practice religions different from their own) or those who would oppress Americans of any race, gender, or sexual orientation.



Posted on: 2017/2/1 1:55
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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JadedJC wrote:
Quote:

manu wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
You're parsing the effect, which was no visas were processed for 6 months.

Reminds me when the French tried to protect domestic TV production. They just said all foreign TV's had to be inspected to make sure they met French standards. I think they put two guys in a warehouse in Marseille, and between the two of them they could inspect a dozen TV's a week!




What are you talking about? The French government tried to protect the production of French TV content, not of TVs manufacturing.


Actually, they did. But Monroe is wrong about the inspection of foreign TVs bit. Foreign TVs wouldn't have done you any good in France, unless you were smuggling one in from Belarus. The French adopted the SECAM TV broadcast system. The only other countries using SECAM were Russia and the former Soviet states. The rest of Europe used PAL, while the U.S. used NTSC. The French did that so you couldn't go to Germany or Britain to buy a cheaper and better TV, or in my case, bring over a multi-system TV from the States (which worked for NTSC/PAL but not SECAM). Not sure if these systems are even still relevant in the age of digital broadcasting and streaming, but it certainly was back in the analog days.


France did indeed use SECAM (thank you for the memories) but it was (arguably) not a protectionist measure. They just pick the wrong standard but had no choice based on the broadcast technology they choose to initially go with...

Posted on: 2017/2/1 1:47
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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third_street_hats wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

JSleeze wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
You're parsing the effect, which was no visas were processed for 6 months.


Again, the Iraq action was tied to a specific threat that. No such threat or similar rationale has been provided for Trump's ban - just an "I don't like the looks of those guys" (to put it kindly) type of thing.

The French are very clever.


Spoken like an ignoramus who never actually read the executive order he has such a strong opinion about.


What part of the executive order do you believe JSleeze is missing?

If you are looking to educate anyone or be persuasive at all, it would be helpful to make such accusations and accompany them with the source information. That way, JSleeze can at least understand your interpretation and compare that to his own in his response.


No, JSleeze is ignorant and made accusations that are proven false if you spend two seconds to look at the actual order.

He can admit he is spouting off, clearly just regurgitating what he hears in his echo chamber, and then I can post it.

Alternatively, since he made the initial assertion, he can provide some proof for it. Then I will prove him wrong.

Posted on: 2017/2/1 0:49
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

JSleeze wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
You're parsing the effect, which was no visas were processed for 6 months.


Again, the Iraq action was tied to a specific threat that. No such threat or similar rationale has been provided for Trump's ban - just an "I don't like the looks of those guys" (to put it kindly) type of thing.

The French are very clever.


Spoken like an ignoramus who never actually read the executive order he has such a strong opinion about.


What part of the executive order do you believe JSleeze is missing?

If you are looking to educate anyone or be persuasive at all, it would be helpful to make such accusations and accompany them with the source information. That way, JSleeze can at least understand your interpretation and compare that to his own in his response.

Posted on: 2017/2/1 0:40
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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manu wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
You're parsing the effect, which was no visas were processed for 6 months.

Reminds me when the French tried to protect domestic TV production. They just said all foreign TV's had to be inspected to make sure they met French standards. I think they put two guys in a warehouse in Marseille, and between the two of them they could inspect a dozen TV's a week!


What are you talking about? The French government tried to protect the production of French TV content, not of TVs manufacturing.


Actually, they did. But Monroe is wrong about the inspection of foreign TVs bit. Foreign TVs wouldn't have done you any good in France, unless you were smuggling one in from Belarus. The French adopted the SECAM TV broadcast system. The only other countries using SECAM were Russia and the former Soviet states. The rest of Europe used PAL, while the U.S. used NTSC. The French did that so you couldn't go to Germany or Britain to buy a cheaper and better TV, or in my case, bring over a multi-system TV from the States (which worked for NTSC/PAL but not SECAM). Not sure if these systems are even still relevant in the age of digital broadcasting and streaming, but it certainly was back in the analog days.

Posted on: 2017/2/1 0:27
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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JSleeze wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
You're parsing the effect, which was no visas were processed for 6 months.


Again, the Iraq action was tied to a specific threat that. No such threat or similar rationale has been provided for Trump's ban - just an "I don't like the looks of those guys" (to put it kindly) type of thing.

The French are very clever.


Spoken like an ignoramus who never actually read the executive order he has such a strong opinion about.

Posted on: 2017/2/1 0:17
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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Azul_the_Cat wrote:
What we did to Japanese American citizens during WW2 was constitutional; that doesn't mean we need to go down that road again.

We're supposed to be better than this. Ya know, shining city upon a hill, and all that jazz.

Don't forget slavery, that was constitutional, (up until 1865) well varying from state to state.

Posted on: 2017/1/31 23:49
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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What we did to Japanese American citizens during WW2 was constitutional; that doesn't mean we need to go down that road again.

We're supposed to be better than this. Ya know, shining city upon a hill, and all that jazz.

Posted on: 2017/1/31 23:37
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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heights wrote:
I support the temporary ban, and if it was unconstitutional it would not be in effect.


Hello?

Posted on: 2017/1/31 23:27
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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DouglasReynholm wrote:
I believe the majority of folks living in JC enjoy the diversity the municipality has to offer - and agree on refugee acceptance through a normal review process and do not accept travel bans from these 7 countries, but a thorough and complete background review followed by permission to enter the US. Union City and JC definitely do not support Trump and Bannon's current executive travel ban and refugee stoppage. It is illegal - pure discrimination + fear mongering at its best.

I support the temporary ban, and if it was unconstitutional it would not be in effect.

Posted on: 2017/1/31 23:24
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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Monroe wrote:
You're parsing the effect, which was no visas were processed for 6 months.

Reminds me when the French tried to protect domestic TV production. They just said all foreign TV's had to be inspected to make sure they met French standards. I think they put two guys in a warehouse in Marseille, and between the two of them they could inspect a dozen TV's a week!


What are you talking about? The French government tried to protect the production of French TV content, not of TVs manufacturing.

Posted on: 2017/1/31 23:09
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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Flaws in the vetting system (San Bernadino massacre) and follow up of those admitted (Boston Marathon bombing) has failed us. This temporary stoppage is to find solutions.

Posted on: 2017/1/31 22:48
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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And you know what - who cares if Obama banned everyone from everywhere? You wanted the guy who is going to blow it all up and break everything in sight, right? Don't hide under the last guys skirt - get out there and own it!

I'll know this "movement" is real when clowns like you and the JCman8-ball stop parroting every talking point that can be summed up as "liberals do this so the opposite must be good" and embrace the "disruption" for what it is and not what it isn't. It makes me think that deep down, you don't really believe the Trump BS and you suspect you might be being played....

Posted on: 2017/1/31 22:44
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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Monroe wrote:
You're parsing the effect, which was no visas were processed for 6 months.


Again, the Iraq action was tied to a specific threat that. No such threat or similar rationale has been provided for Trump's ban - just an "I don't like the looks of those guys" (to put it kindly) type of thing.

The French are very clever.

Posted on: 2017/1/31 22:37
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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You're parsing the effect, which was no visas were processed for 6 months.

Reminds me when the French tried to protect domestic TV production. They just said all foreign TV's had to be inspected to make sure they met French standards. I think they put two guys in a warehouse in Marseille, and between the two of them they could inspect a dozen TV's a week!

Posted on: 2017/1/31 22:01
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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I think Yvonne is a little behind since this was already brought up by Monroe. Let's be clear with what happened after it was discovered that an Iraqi claiming to be a refugee was found out to be aiding the enemy during his time in Iraq. The US immediately re-screened ~58,000 refugees and their applications. This did cause a backlog in the application process for about 6 months. At no time did Iraqi's refugees ever stop coming though.

The refugee screen process overhaul is still what is used today, and so far as we we know, it has been working fine.

Posted on: 2017/1/31 21:49
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Re: Jersey City rally in support of immigrants
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Also, Obama stopped Iraqi refugees for 6 months. http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/ ... 11-liberals-said-nothing/

Posted on: 2017/1/31 21:29
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