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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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so, the "law and order" candidate, more famously known as oranged-hair donald trump was told tohave his charity stop accepting donations. i guess his non-profit had been vilating the law all these years!


Now this, this is trolling.

Posted on: 2016/10/3 19:55
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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so, the "law and order" candidate, more famously known as oranged-hair donald trump was told tohave his charity stop accepting donations. i guess his non-profit had been vilating the law all these years!

Posted on: 2016/10/3 19:16
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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devilsadvocate wrote:
hero69 has simply devolved into left wing talking points without demonstrating any willingness to consider the flaws of his own candidate.


Why should hero69 do so when there are douchebags like you so eager to do so? I welcome spirited interaction with Trump supporters, but not from trolls that want nothing more than to start arguements. And I have no doubt that devilsadvocate is just playing devils advocate.


Examples of my trolling in this thread?

Posted on: 2016/10/3 19:12
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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devilsadvocate wrote:
hero69 has simply devolved into left wing talking points without demonstrating any willingness to consider the flaws of his own candidate.


Why should hero69 do so when there are douchebags like you so eager to do so? I welcome spirited interaction with Trump supporters, but not from trolls that want nothing more than to start arguements. And I have no doubt that devilsadvocate is just playing devils advocate.

Posted on: 2016/10/3 18:53
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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hero69 has simply devolved into left wing talking points without demonstrating any willingness to consider the flaws of his own candidate.

Posted on: 2016/10/3 18:06
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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JCMan8 wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
oh snap-wappa-doo, one of donald's hotel companies violated us embargo on cuba.

http://www.politico.com/states/florid ... lated-cuba-embargo-105927


Another awesome role reversal. Suddenly Democrats, who have always massively opposed the Cuban embargo, the one Obama weakened, care deeply about enforcing this.
pathetic response....just more proof of donald ignoring the law. don't for got about the clown using his charitiy to pay his legal bills.


I'll say this - both of these candidates play it fast and loose when it comes to operating within the boundaries of the law (like running a secret server holding classified info in your basement). Everyone broke some laws at some point - Obama freakin' talked about doing drugs. I break the law every day - by speeding on my way to work. Many people I know travel to Cuba through Canada because they think that's so cool. So the question is really "have people been breaking laws that we really care about." What is more interesting is that Democrats are deeply concerned about the Cuban embargo in particular.
nope, trump CLEARLY broke the law on several times. clinton was clearly careless; she may have broken rules but as executive in charge of state she had the authority to do as she did


NO! NO! NO! Clinton did not break rules??? She broke the laws that protect state secrets! You sound like you are defending the CEOs of the corrupt companies responsible for the 2008 Market Crash. Those market manipulators and the CEOs should have gone to jail... should have HRC.
roflmao. just ignore big guy's false narrative. clinton is careless, trump is criminal - breaking embargoes and misusing his charity. donald is levels below hillary on the ethics scale


Uh, you think she just "carelessly" setup a secret email server and then "carelessly" had her people destroy all the evidence she could to try to cover it up? Really? Plus, she was acting as a public servant while Trump was just a businessman. Neither is great but Clinton is actually worse.
it's time to move on to donald's endless lawbreaking. the fbi has determined that there was no lawbreaking on clinton's part. and why do you excuse trump's behavior just because he is a businessman.



Hillary only careless? I've got a bridge to sell you.
dude, i'd buy that bridge. donald trump is as crooked as they come- racist housing policies, breaking embargoes, using his charity to pay his personal legal expenses. what else? and, of course, he can talk about bill clinton's infidelities all he wants..but what about his own?

Posted on: 2016/9/30 14:42
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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hero69 wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
oh snap-wappa-doo, one of donald's hotel companies violated us embargo on cuba.

http://www.politico.com/states/florid ... lated-cuba-embargo-105927


Another awesome role reversal. Suddenly Democrats, who have always massively opposed the Cuban embargo, the one Obama weakened, care deeply about enforcing this.
pathetic response....just more proof of donald ignoring the law. don't for got about the clown using his charitiy to pay his legal bills.


I'll say this - both of these candidates play it fast and loose when it comes to operating within the boundaries of the law (like running a secret server holding classified info in your basement). Everyone broke some laws at some point - Obama freakin' talked about doing drugs. I break the law every day - by speeding on my way to work. Many people I know travel to Cuba through Canada because they think that's so cool. So the question is really "have people been breaking laws that we really care about." What is more interesting is that Democrats are deeply concerned about the Cuban embargo in particular.
nope, trump CLEARLY broke the law on several times. clinton was clearly careless; she may have broken rules but as executive in charge of state she had the authority to do as she did


NO! NO! NO! Clinton did not break rules??? She broke the laws that protect state secrets! You sound like you are defending the CEOs of the corrupt companies responsible for the 2008 Market Crash. Those market manipulators and the CEOs should have gone to jail... should have HRC.
roflmao. just ignore big guy's false narrative. clinton is careless, trump is criminal - breaking embargoes and misusing his charity. donald is levels below hillary on the ethics scale


Uh, you think she just "carelessly" setup a secret email server and then "carelessly" had her people destroy all the evidence she could to try to cover it up? Really? Plus, she was acting as a public servant while Trump was just a businessman. Neither is great but Clinton is actually worse.
it's time to move on to donald's endless lawbreaking. the fbi has determined that there was no lawbreaking on clinton's part. and why do you excuse trump's behavior just because he is a businessman.



Hillary only careless? I've got a bridge to sell you.

Posted on: 2016/9/30 5:19
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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hero69 wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
oh snap-wappa-doo, one of donald's hotel companies violated us embargo on cuba.

http://www.politico.com/states/florid ... lated-cuba-embargo-105927


Another awesome role reversal. Suddenly Democrats, who have always massively opposed the Cuban embargo, the one Obama weakened, care deeply about enforcing this.
pathetic response....just more proof of donald ignoring the law. don't for got about the clown using his charitiy to pay his legal bills.


I'll say this - both of these candidates play it fast and loose when it comes to operating within the boundaries of the law (like running a secret server holding classified info in your basement). Everyone broke some laws at some point - Obama freakin' talked about doing drugs. I break the law every day - by speeding on my way to work. Many people I know travel to Cuba through Canada because they think that's so cool. So the question is really "have people been breaking laws that we really care about." What is more interesting is that Democrats are deeply concerned about the Cuban embargo in particular.
nope, trump CLEARLY broke the law on several times. clinton was clearly careless; she may have broken rules but as executive in charge of state she had the authority to do as she did


NO! NO! NO! Clinton did not break rules??? She broke the laws that protect state secrets! You sound like you are defending the CEOs of the corrupt companies responsible for the 2008 Market Crash. Those market manipulators and the CEOs should have gone to jail... should have HRC.
roflmao. just ignore big guy's false narrative. clinton is careless, trump is criminal - breaking embargoes and misusing his charity. donald is levels below hillary on the ethics scale


Uh, you think she just "carelessly" setup a secret email server and then "carelessly" had her people destroy all the evidence she could to try to cover it up? Really? Plus, she was acting as a public servant while Trump was just a businessman. Neither is great but Clinton is actually worse.
it's time to move on to donald's endless lawbreaking. the fbi has determined that there was no lawbreaking on clinton's part. and why do you excuse trump's behavior just because he is a businessman.

Posted on: 2016/9/30 4:08
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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Politics
Trump Foundation lacks the certification required for charities that solicit money

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politic ... 2-a29979381495_story.html

Posted on: 2016/9/30 4:04
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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hero69 wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
oh snap-wappa-doo, one of donald's hotel companies violated us embargo on cuba.

http://www.politico.com/states/florid ... lated-cuba-embargo-105927


Another awesome role reversal. Suddenly Democrats, who have always massively opposed the Cuban embargo, the one Obama weakened, care deeply about enforcing this.
pathetic response....just more proof of donald ignoring the law. don't for got about the clown using his charitiy to pay his legal bills.


I'll say this - both of these candidates play it fast and loose when it comes to operating within the boundaries of the law (like running a secret server holding classified info in your basement). Everyone broke some laws at some point - Obama freakin' talked about doing drugs. I break the law every day - by speeding on my way to work. Many people I know travel to Cuba through Canada because they think that's so cool. So the question is really "have people been breaking laws that we really care about." What is more interesting is that Democrats are deeply concerned about the Cuban embargo in particular.
nope, trump CLEARLY broke the law on several times. clinton was clearly careless; she may have broken rules but as executive in charge of state she had the authority to do as she did


NO! NO! NO! Clinton did not break rules??? She broke the laws that protect state secrets! You sound like you are defending the CEOs of the corrupt companies responsible for the 2008 Market Crash. Those market manipulators and the CEOs should have gone to jail... should have HRC.
roflmao. just ignore big guy's false narrative. clinton is careless, trump is criminal - breaking embargoes and misusing his charity. donald is levels below hillary on the ethics scale


Uh, you think she just "carelessly" setup a secret email server and then "carelessly" had her people destroy all the evidence she could to try to cover it up? Really? Plus, she was acting as a public servant while Trump was just a businessman. Neither is great but Clinton is actually worse.

Posted on: 2016/9/30 3:49
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
oh snap-wappa-doo, one of donald's hotel companies violated us embargo on cuba.

http://www.politico.com/states/florid ... lated-cuba-embargo-105927


Another awesome role reversal. Suddenly Democrats, who have always massively opposed the Cuban embargo, the one Obama weakened, care deeply about enforcing this.
pathetic response....just more proof of donald ignoring the law. don't for got about the clown using his charitiy to pay his legal bills.


I'll say this - both of these candidates play it fast and loose when it comes to operating within the boundaries of the law (like running a secret server holding classified info in your basement). Everyone broke some laws at some point - Obama freakin' talked about doing drugs. I break the law every day - by speeding on my way to work. Many people I know travel to Cuba through Canada because they think that's so cool. So the question is really "have people been breaking laws that we really care about." What is more interesting is that Democrats are deeply concerned about the Cuban embargo in particular.
nope, trump CLEARLY broke the law on several times. clinton was clearly careless; she may have broken rules but as executive in charge of state she had the authority to do as she did


NO! NO! NO! Clinton did not break rules??? She broke the laws that protect state secrets! You sound like you are defending the CEOs of the corrupt companies responsible for the 2008 Market Crash. Those market manipulators and the CEOs should have gone to jail... should have HRC.
roflmao. just ignore big guy's false narrative. clinton is careless, trump is criminal - breaking embargoes and misusing his charity. donald is levels below hillary on the ethics scale

Posted on: 2016/9/30 3:32
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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hero69 wrote:
oh snap-wappa-doo, one of donald's hotel companies violated us embargo on cuba.

http://www.politico.com/states/florid ... lated-cuba-embargo-105927


Another awesome role reversal. Suddenly Democrats, who have always massively opposed the Cuban embargo, the one Obama weakened, care deeply about enforcing this.
pathetic response....just more proof of donald ignoring the law. don't for got about the clown using his charitiy to pay his legal bills.


I'll say this - both of these candidates play it fast and loose when it comes to operating within the boundaries of the law (like running a secret server holding classified info in your basement). Everyone broke some laws at some point - Obama freakin' talked about doing drugs. I break the law every day - by speeding on my way to work. Many people I know travel to Cuba through Canada because they think that's so cool. So the question is really "have people been breaking laws that we really care about." What is more interesting is that Democrats are deeply concerned about the Cuban embargo in particular.
nope, trump CLEARLY broke the law on several times. clinton was clearly careless; she may have broken rules but as executive in charge of state she had the authority to do as she did


NO! NO! NO! Clinton did not break rules??? She broke the laws that protect state secrets! You sound like you are defending the CEOs of the corrupt companies responsible for the 2008 Market Crash. Those market manipulators and the CEOs should have gone to jail... should have HRC.

Posted on: 2016/9/30 2:59
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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hero69 wrote:
oh snap-wappa-doo, one of donald's hotel companies violated us embargo on cuba.

http://www.politico.com/states/florid ... lated-cuba-embargo-105927


Another awesome role reversal. Suddenly Democrats, who have always massively opposed the Cuban embargo, the one Obama weakened, care deeply about enforcing this.
pathetic response....just more proof of donald ignoring the law. don't for got about the clown using his charitiy to pay his legal bills.


I'll say this - both of these candidates play it fast and loose when it comes to operating within the boundaries of the law (like running a secret server holding classified info in your basement). Everyone broke some laws at some point - Obama freakin' talked about doing drugs. I break the law every day - by speeding on my way to work. Many people I know travel to Cuba through Canada because they think that's so cool. So the question is really "have people been breaking laws that we really care about." What is more interesting is that Democrats are deeply concerned about the Cuban embargo in particular.
nope, trump CLEARLY broke the law on several times. clinton was clearly careless; she may have broken rules but as executive in charge of state she had the authority to do as she did


I CLEARLY break the law speeding. Obama CLEARLY broke the law doing drugs. Clinton did not CLEARLY break the law because she took significant steps to hide her criminal activity (which involved mishandling classified data in order to avoid accountability at later points in time while in public office), making it no longer clear. If you don't see why that's not a point in her favor I don't know what to tell you. Clearly breaking a law that no one cares about, which most people do every day, isn't nearly as bad as hiding activity that is likely illegal but involves exactly the sort of thing that the job of POTUS deals with every day.


Posted on: 2016/9/30 2:50
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
oh snap-wappa-doo, one of donald's hotel companies violated us embargo on cuba.

http://www.politico.com/states/florid ... lated-cuba-embargo-105927


Another awesome role reversal. Suddenly Democrats, who have always massively opposed the Cuban embargo, the one Obama weakened, care deeply about enforcing this.
pathetic response....just more proof of donald ignoring the law. don't for got about the clown using his charitiy to pay his legal bills.


I'll say this - both of these candidates play it fast and loose when it comes to operating within the boundaries of the law (like running a secret server holding classified info in your basement). Everyone broke some laws at some point - Obama freakin' talked about doing drugs. I break the law every day - by speeding on my way to work. Many people I know travel to Cuba through Canada because they think that's so cool. So the question is really "have people been breaking laws that we really care about." What is more interesting is that Democrats are deeply concerned about the Cuban embargo in particular.



The difference is one is a public official the other is a businessman.

Posted on: 2016/9/30 2:41
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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Those that support Trump are on the wrong side of history.
A new first!

USA TODAY's Editorial Board: Trump is 'unfit for the presidency'

The Editorial Board has never taken sides in the presidential race. We're doing it now.

In the 34-year history of USA TODAY, the Editorial Board has never taken sides in the presidential race. Instead, we’ve expressed opinions about the major issues and haven’t presumed to tell our readers, who have a variety of priorities and values, which choice is best for them. Because every presidential race is different, we revisit our no-endorsement policy every four years. We’ve never seen reason to alter our approach. Until now.

This year, the choice isn’t between two capable major party nominees who happen to have significant ideological differences. This year, one of the candidates — Republican nominee Donald Trump — is, by unanimous consensus of the Editorial Board, unfit for the presidency.

From the day he declared his candidacy 15 months ago through this week’s first presidential debate, Trump has demonstrated repeatedly that he lacks the temperament, knowledge, steadiness and honesty that America needs from its presidents.

Whether through indifference or ignorance, Trump has betrayed fundamental commitments made by all presidents since the end of World War II. These commitments include unwavering support for NATO allies, steadfast opposition to Russian aggression, and the absolute certainty that the United States will make good on its debts. He has expressed troubling admiration for authoritarian leaders and scant regard for constitutional protections.

We’ve been highly critical of the GOP nominee in a number of previous editorials. With early voting already underway in several states and polls showing a close race, now is the time to spell out, in one place, the reasons Trump should not be president:

He is erratic. Trump has been on so many sides of so many issues that attempting to assess his policy positions is like shooting at a moving target. A list prepared by NBC details 124 shifts by Trump on 20 major issues since shortly before he entered the race. He simply spouts slogans and outcomes (he’d replace Obamacare with “something terrific”) without any credible explanations of how he’d achieve them.

He is ill-equipped to be commander in chief. Trump’s foreign policy pronouncements typically range from uninformed to incoherent. It’s not just Democrats who say this. Scores of Republican national security leaders have signed an extraordinary open letter calling Trump’s foreign policy vision “wildly inconsistent and unmoored in principle.” In a Wall Street Journal column this month, Robert Gates, the highly respected former Defense secretary who served presidents of both parties over a half-century, described Trump as “beyond repair.”

He traffics in prejudice. From the very beginning, Trump has built his campaign on appeals to bigotry and xenophobia, whipping up resentment against Mexicans, Muslims and migrants. His proposals for mass deportations and religious tests are unworkable and contrary to America’s ideals.

Trump has stirred racist sentiments in ways that can’t be erased by his belated and clumsy outreach to African Americans. His attacks on an Indiana-born federal judge of Mexican heritage fit “the textbook definition of a racist comment,” according to House Speaker Paul Ryan, the highest-ranking elected official in the Republican Party. And for five years, Trump fanned the absurd “birther” movement that falsely questioned the legitimacy of the nation’s first black president.

His business career is checkered. Trump has built his candidacy on his achievements as a real estate developer and entrepreneur. It’s a shaky scaffold, starting with a 1973 Justice Department suit against Trump and his father for systematically discriminating against blacks in housing rentals. (The Trumps fought the suit but later settled on terms that were viewed as a government victory.) Trump’s companies have had some spectacular financial successes, but this track record is marred by six bankruptcy filings, apparent misuse of the family’s charitable foundation, and allegations by Trump University customers of fraud. A series of investigative articles published by the USA TODAY Network found that Trump has been involved in thousands of lawsuits over the past three decades, including at least 60 that involved small businesses and contract employees who said they were stiffed. So much for being a champion of the little guy.

He isn’t leveling with the American people. Is Trump as rich as he says? No one knows, in part because, alone among major party presidential candidates for the past four decades, he refuses to release his tax returns. Nor do we know whether he has paid his fair share of taxes, or the extent of his foreign financial entanglements.

He speaks recklessly. In the days after the Republican convention, Trump invited Russian hackers to interfere with an American election by releasing Hillary Clinton’s emails, and he raised the prospect of “Second Amendment people” preventing the Democratic nominee from appointing liberal justices. It’s hard to imagine two more irresponsible statements from one presidential candidate.

He has coarsened the national dialogue. Did you ever imagine that a presidential candidate would discuss the size of his genitalia during a nationally televised Republican debate? Neither did we. Did you ever imagine a presidential candidate, one who avoided service in the military, would criticize Gold Star parents who lost a son in Iraq? Neither did we. Did you ever imagine you’d see a presidential candidate mock a disabled reporter? Neither did we. Trump’s inability or unwillingness to ignore criticism raises the specter of a president who, like Richard Nixon, would create enemies’ lists and be consumed with getting even with his critics.

He’s a serial liar. Although polls show that Clinton is considered less honest and trustworthy than Trump, it’s not even a close contest. Trump is in a league of his own when it comes to the quality and quantity of his misstatements. When confronted with a falsehood, such as his assertion that he was always against the Iraq War, Trump’s reaction is to use the Big Lie technique of repeating it so often that people begin to believe it.

We are not unmindful of the issues that Trump’s campaign has exploited: the disappearance of working-class jobs; excessive political correctness; the direction of the Supreme Court; urban unrest and street violence; the rise of the Islamic State terrorist group; gridlock in Washington and the influence of moneyed interests. All are legitimate sources of concern.

Nor does this editorial represent unqualified support for Hillary Clinton, who has her own flaws (though hers are far less likely to threaten national security or lead to a constitutional crisis). The Editorial Board does not have a consensus for a Clinton endorsement.

Some of us look at her command of the issues, resilience and long record of public service — as first lady, U.S. senator and secretary of State — and believe she’d serve the nation ably as its president.

Other board members have serious reservations about Clinton’s sense of entitlement, her lack of candor and her extreme carelessness in handling classified information.

Where does that leave us? Our bottom-line advice for voters is this: Stay true to your convictions. That might mean a vote for Clinton, the most plausible alternative to keep Trump out of the White House. Or it might mean a third-party candidate. Or a write-in. Or a focus on down-ballot candidates who will serve the nation honestly, try to heal its divisions, and work to solve its problems.

Whatever you do, however, resist the siren song of a dangerous demagogue. By all means vote, just not for Donald Trump.



Posted on: 2016/9/30 2:26
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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oh snap-wappa-doo, one of donald's hotel companies violated us embargo on cuba.

http://www.politico.com/states/florid ... lated-cuba-embargo-105927


Another awesome role reversal. Suddenly Democrats, who have always massively opposed the Cuban embargo, the one Obama weakened, care deeply about enforcing this.
pathetic response....just more proof of donald ignoring the law. don't for got about the clown using his charitiy to pay his legal bills.


I'll say this - both of these candidates play it fast and loose when it comes to operating within the boundaries of the law (like running a secret server holding classified info in your basement). Everyone broke some laws at some point - Obama freakin' talked about doing drugs. I break the law every day - by speeding on my way to work. Many people I know travel to Cuba through Canada because they think that's so cool. So the question is really "have people been breaking laws that we really care about." What is more interesting is that Democrats are deeply concerned about the Cuban embargo in particular.
nope, trump CLEARLY broke the law on several times. clinton was clearly careless; she may have broken rules but as executive in charge of state she had the authority to do as she did

Posted on: 2016/9/29 21:09
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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hero69 wrote:
oh snap-wappa-doo, one of donald's hotel companies violated us embargo on cuba.

http://www.politico.com/states/florid ... lated-cuba-embargo-105927


Another awesome role reversal. Suddenly Democrats, who have always massively opposed the Cuban embargo, the one Obama weakened, care deeply about enforcing this.
pathetic response....just more proof of donald ignoring the law. don't for got about the clown using his charitiy to pay his legal bills.


I'll say this - both of these candidates play it fast and loose when it comes to operating within the boundaries of the law (like running a secret server holding classified info in your basement). Everyone broke some laws at some point - Obama freakin' talked about doing drugs. I break the law every day - by speeding on my way to work. Many people I know travel to Cuba through Canada because they think that's so cool. So the question is really "have people been breaking laws that we really care about." What is more interesting is that Democrats are deeply concerned about the Cuban embargo in particular.

Posted on: 2016/9/29 21:03
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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oh snap-wappa-doo, one of donald's hotel companies violated us embargo on cuba.

http://www.politico.com/states/florid ... lated-cuba-embargo-105927


Another awesome role reversal. Suddenly Democrats, who have always massively opposed the Cuban embargo, the one Obama weakened, care deeply about enforcing this.
pathetic response....just more proof of donald ignoring the law. don't for got about the clown using his charitiy to pay his legal bills.

Posted on: 2016/9/29 20:27
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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oh snap-wappa-doo, one of donald's hotel companies violated us embargo on cuba.

http://www.politico.com/states/florid ... lated-cuba-embargo-105927


Another awesome role reversal. Suddenly Democrats, who have always massively opposed the Cuban embargo, the one Obama weakened, care deeply about enforcing this.

Posted on: 2016/9/29 20:22
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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oh snap-wappa-doo, one of donald's hotel companies violated us embargo on cuba.

http://www.politico.com/states/florid ... lated-cuba-embargo-105927

Posted on: 2016/9/29 20:18
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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You probably should have gone on to college and grad school. You would have learned that citing to an editorial article isn't particularly meaningful.

As to Americans that were sympathetic to the Nazis - you're right, they absolutely existed. Their Nazi sympathizing organizations are not being honored by the US federal government and if they were, I would find that extremely disturbing. If we had say, a major powerful nationally supported militia with a Nazi symbol as an insignia, I would start to wonder what is going on and whether this great "revolution" was indeed a great thing.

As to MH17, anyone who has been following the conflict knows exactly what happened. This was in that period when the Ukrainian government was using air power to bomb rebel cities. The rebels just got anti-aircraft weapons. The flight controllers made zero adjustment based on this, so the inevitable happened. No one really thinks it was intentional, at least if they're honest. But here's the funny thing here - imagine for a second that the Syrian rebels used an anti-aircraft weapon and accidentally downed a civilian aircraft. The US would immediately exclaim that this is further excuse for a no fly zone. Here? It is the rebels being terrible people because they're defending their cities from being bombed. Like I said initially, it is really the approach in US foreign policy that is fascinating to me.

Quote:

SOS wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
So is the policy you're promoting that if Russia is for it, we're against it? So should we be for ISIS and for other assorted Islamist crazies? This is a ridiculous way to look at the world. There's no real reason the US and Russia aren't/shouldn't be geopolitically aligned on most issues.


I was on my HS debate team and sorry I'm not going to play your game. But this may be of interest to some JClisters -

The Opinion Pages | EDITORIAL
Vladimir Putin’s Outlaw State
By THE EDITORIAL BOARDSEPT. 29, 2016

President Vladimir Putin is fast turning Russia into an outlaw nation. As one of five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council, his country shares a special responsibility to uphold international law. Yet, his behavior in Ukraine and Syria violates not only the rules intended to promote peace instead of conflict, but also common human decency.

This bitter truth was driven home twice on Wednesday. An investigative team led by the Netherlands concluded that the surface-to-air missile system that shot down a Malaysia Airlines plane over Ukraine in July 2014, killing 298 on board, was sent from Russia to Russian-backed separatists and returned to Russia the same night. Meanwhile, in Syria, Russian and Syrian warplanes knocked out two hospitals in the rebel-held sector of Aleppo as part of an assault that threatens the lives of 250,000 more people in a war that has already claimed some 500,000 Syrian lives.

Russia has tried hard to pin the blame for the airline crash on Ukraine. But the new report, produced by prosecutors from the Netherlands, Australia, Belgium, Malaysia and Ukraine, confirms earlier findings. It uses strict standards of evidence and meticulously documents not only the deployment of the Russian missile system that caused the disaster but also Moscow’s continuing cover-up...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/29/opi ... on-c-col-left-region&_r=0



Durning WWII there were Americans that thought we should be working with Hitler, and were pleased when refugees - Jews in particular were turned away. Trump supporters are on the wrong side of history again. And if they believe he's a Republican they have been fooled.

Posted on: 2016/9/29 18:24
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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So is the policy you're promoting that if Russia is for it, we're against it? So should we be for ISIS and for other assorted Islamist crazies? This is a ridiculous way to look at the world. There's no real reason the US and Russia aren't/shouldn't be geopolitically aligned on most issues.


I was on my HS debate team and sorry I'm not going to play your game. But this may be of interest to some JClisters -

The Opinion Pages | EDITORIAL
Vladimir Putin’s Outlaw State
By THE EDITORIAL BOARDSEPT. 29, 2016

President Vladimir Putin is fast turning Russia into an outlaw nation. As one of five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council, his country shares a special responsibility to uphold international law. Yet, his behavior in Ukraine and Syria violates not only the rules intended to promote peace instead of conflict, but also common human decency.

This bitter truth was driven home twice on Wednesday. An investigative team led by the Netherlands concluded that the surface-to-air missile system that shot down a Malaysia Airlines plane over Ukraine in July 2014, killing 298 on board, was sent from Russia to Russian-backed separatists and returned to Russia the same night. Meanwhile, in Syria, Russian and Syrian warplanes knocked out two hospitals in the rebel-held sector of Aleppo as part of an assault that threatens the lives of 250,000 more people in a war that has already claimed some 500,000 Syrian lives.

Russia has tried hard to pin the blame for the airline crash on Ukraine. But the new report, produced by prosecutors from the Netherlands, Australia, Belgium, Malaysia and Ukraine, confirms earlier findings. It uses strict standards of evidence and meticulously documents not only the deployment of the Russian missile system that caused the disaster but also Moscow’s continuing cover-up...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/29/opi ... on-c-col-left-region&_r=0



Durning WWII there were Americans that thought we should be working with Hitler, and were pleased when refugees - Jews in particular were turned away. Trump supporters are on the wrong side of history again. And if they believe he's a Republican they have been fooled.

Posted on: 2016/9/29 15:19
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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SOS wrote:
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TheBigGuy wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

SOS wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
The new Democratic party belligerence towards Russia and general militarism is fascinating. This is the party throughout the cold war wanted peace with the USSR, and thought we could learn a thing or two about Communism. Russia today, of course, isn't Communist at all and instead has a fairly conservative government (complete with a flat tax). Suddenly, you have people like Clinton wanting to fight Russia in Syria and Ukraine. People who thought Vietnam - which had Communists attempting to invade an allied democracy, wasn't a just war. But backing Islamist armies in Syria is fine (er, "moderate rebels"), backing a bunch of people in Ukraine who honor WW2 era leaders that sided with the Nazis is also a great idea. Also, while the Iraq war was a wasteful expense, we should pay for NATO without questioning any of the expenses. It is completely bizarre.


Thank you Comrade devilsadvocate, but you have two personalities on JCLIST. And this one - the devilsadvocate is the opposite of the other! Ha Ha!

Good arguments and the Russian Federation agrees with you. F*** NATO. NATO is no good! F*** Ukraine, which belongs to Russian Federation. F*** Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. They are little chickens that will soon be back in the coop! Russian Federation needs US president that can "look the other way" ha ha! Crimea is nice this time of year don't you agree?

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP, make Russian Federation...I mean America, great again!

Oh and DO NOT read this (right wing enough?):
http://index.heritage.org/military/20 ... rther-russian-aggression/


Yeah, the former Soviet Union is not really the US or Europe's problem. For a bunch of reasons, the most basic one being that there's zero reason to die for a regional conflict, plus few in the US understand (or care about) the history or the inherent intricacies. How many Americans have any idea what the status of Ukraine or Crimea was before the USSR? That's just one example. The result ends up being that Americans support "new Ukraine" - which basically is just different oligarchs fleecing the population, now promoting Ukrainian nationalism to keep the population focused on something other than the fact that they're no better off than before their "revolution" (and in fact, in many ways quite a bit worse off).

And NATO was fine when it was the US, France, the UK and other core allies. When they started bringing in Turkey, they had jumped the shark. As they expanded into E. Europe - it was purely strategic. It wasn't about protecting similar nations with intertwined histories and cultures, it was about projecting power and influence. The result of that kind of approach to the world? A massive national debt that we have no idea how we will repay.

Finally, absolutely many Republicans hate Russia. McCain, Romney, and plenty of others come to mind. What is fascinating to me is that in this election the Democrat is playing the role of warmongering while Trump isn't. Except that Democrats are falling into line.



Priceless watching that dolt Kerry snivel to the Russians about pulling out of the "peace talks". We should be aligned with the Russians and Assad against the Muslim terror groups. I am tired of nation building.

I saw on the news today that Obama now has 5000 US troops in Iraq. If him and Hillary left the 15000 in there 8 years ago... Iran would not be in control of Iraq, ISIS never would have formed and we would not have this manufactured refugee crisis.


Good work Comrade TheBigGuy. The Russian Federation approves of your comments! Kerry is dolt! Obama is monkey with banana! Russian Federation working hard to elect Trump! Trump will make Russian Federation Great Again ... and Bigger!


So is the policy you're promoting that if Russia is for it, we're against it? So should we be for ISIS and for other assorted Islamist crazies? This is a ridiculous way to look at the world. There's no real reason the US and Russia aren't/shouldn't be geopolitically aligned on most issues.

Posted on: 2016/9/29 14:53
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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TheBigGuy wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

SOS wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
The new Democratic party belligerence towards Russia and general militarism is fascinating. This is the party throughout the cold war wanted peace with the USSR, and thought we could learn a thing or two about Communism. Russia today, of course, isn't Communist at all and instead has a fairly conservative government (complete with a flat tax). Suddenly, you have people like Clinton wanting to fight Russia in Syria and Ukraine. People who thought Vietnam - which had Communists attempting to invade an allied democracy, wasn't a just war. But backing Islamist armies in Syria is fine (er, "moderate rebels"), backing a bunch of people in Ukraine who honor WW2 era leaders that sided with the Nazis is also a great idea. Also, while the Iraq war was a wasteful expense, we should pay for NATO without questioning any of the expenses. It is completely bizarre.


Thank you Comrade devilsadvocate, but you have two personalities on JCLIST. And this one - the devilsadvocate is the opposite of the other! Ha Ha!

Good arguments and the Russian Federation agrees with you. F*** NATO. NATO is no good! F*** Ukraine, which belongs to Russian Federation. F*** Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. They are little chickens that will soon be back in the coop! Russian Federation needs US president that can "look the other way" ha ha! Crimea is nice this time of year don't you agree?

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP, make Russian Federation...I mean America, great again!

Oh and DO NOT read this (right wing enough?):
http://index.heritage.org/military/20 ... rther-russian-aggression/


Yeah, the former Soviet Union is not really the US or Europe's problem. For a bunch of reasons, the most basic one being that there's zero reason to die for a regional conflict, plus few in the US understand (or care about) the history or the inherent intricacies. How many Americans have any idea what the status of Ukraine or Crimea was before the USSR? That's just one example. The result ends up being that Americans support "new Ukraine" - which basically is just different oligarchs fleecing the population, now promoting Ukrainian nationalism to keep the population focused on something other than the fact that they're no better off than before their "revolution" (and in fact, in many ways quite a bit worse off).

And NATO was fine when it was the US, France, the UK and other core allies. When they started bringing in Turkey, they had jumped the shark. As they expanded into E. Europe - it was purely strategic. It wasn't about protecting similar nations with intertwined histories and cultures, it was about projecting power and influence. The result of that kind of approach to the world? A massive national debt that we have no idea how we will repay.

Finally, absolutely many Republicans hate Russia. McCain, Romney, and plenty of others come to mind. What is fascinating to me is that in this election the Democrat is playing the role of warmongering while Trump isn't. Except that Democrats are falling into line.



Priceless watching that dolt Kerry snivel to the Russians about pulling out of the "peace talks". We should be aligned with the Russians and Assad against the Muslim terror groups. I am tired of nation building.

I saw on the news today that Obama now has 5000 US troops in Iraq. If him and Hillary left the 15000 in there 8 years ago... Iran would not be in control of Iraq, ISIS never would have formed and we would not have this manufactured refugee crisis.


Good work Comrade TheBigGuy. The Russian Federation approves of your comments! Kerry is dolt! Obama is monkey with banana! Russian Federation working hard to elect Trump! Trump will make Russian Federation Great Again ... and Bigger!

Posted on: 2016/9/29 11:52
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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TheBigGuy wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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SOS wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
The new Democratic party belligerence towards Russia and general militarism is fascinating. This is the party throughout the cold war wanted peace with the USSR, and thought we could learn a thing or two about Communism. Russia today, of course, isn't Communist at all and instead has a fairly conservative government (complete with a flat tax). Suddenly, you have people like Clinton wanting to fight Russia in Syria and Ukraine. People who thought Vietnam - which had Communists attempting to invade an allied democracy, wasn't a just war. But backing Islamist armies in Syria is fine (er, "moderate rebels"), backing a bunch of people in Ukraine who honor WW2 era leaders that sided with the Nazis is also a great idea. Also, while the Iraq war was a wasteful expense, we should pay for NATO without questioning any of the expenses. It is completely bizarre.


Thank you Comrade devilsadvocate, but you have two personalities on JCLIST. And this one - the devilsadvocate is the opposite of the other! Ha Ha!

Good arguments and the Russian Federation agrees with you. F*** NATO. NATO is no good! F*** Ukraine, which belongs to Russian Federation. F*** Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. They are little chickens that will soon be back in the coop! Russian Federation needs US president that can "look the other way" ha ha! Crimea is nice this time of year don't you agree?

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP, make Russian Federation...I mean America, great again!

Oh and DO NOT read this (right wing enough?):
http://index.heritage.org/military/20 ... rther-russian-aggression/


Yeah, the former Soviet Union is not really the US or Europe's problem. For a bunch of reasons, the most basic one being that there's zero reason to die for a regional conflict, plus few in the US understand (or care about) the history or the inherent intricacies. How many Americans have any idea what the status of Ukraine or Crimea was before the USSR? That's just one example. The result ends up being that Americans support "new Ukraine" - which basically is just different oligarchs fleecing the population, now promoting Ukrainian nationalism to keep the population focused on something other than the fact that they're no better off than before their "revolution" (and in fact, in many ways quite a bit worse off).

And NATO was fine when it was the US, France, the UK and other core allies. When they started bringing in Turkey, they had jumped the shark. As they expanded into E. Europe - it was purely strategic. It wasn't about protecting similar nations with intertwined histories and cultures, it was about projecting power and influence. The result of that kind of approach to the world? A massive national debt that we have no idea how we will repay.

Finally, absolutely many Republicans hate Russia. McCain, Romney, and plenty of others come to mind. What is fascinating to me is that in this election the Democrat is playing the role of warmongering while Trump isn't. Except that Democrats are falling into line.



Priceless watching that dolt Kerry snivel to the Russians about pulling out of the "peace talks". We should be aligned with the Russians and Assad against the Muslim terror groups. I am tired of nation building.

I saw on the news today that Obama now has 5000 US troops in Iraq. If him and Hillary left the 15000 in there 8 years ago... Iran would not be in control of Iraq, ISIS never would have formed and we would not have this manufactured refugee crisis.


I thought you were tired of nation building?




8 years ago we were committed morally to fix "what nobody thought about" after we won the second Gulf War decisively. We owed it to all the dead. The Obama/Clinton world apology tour signaled to our enemies to sit back and wait. The great geo-political sea change promised by Obama/Clinton did not change the world and instead they proceeded to destabilize Turkey, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Arabian Peninsula and not happy there, eastern Europe inc. Ukraine.

During that time we saw the rise of ISIS, an increase in Muslim terror attacks globally and now Iran is in Iraq as s they are in Lebanon and Syria. All after Obama/Clinton declared victory and left, basically for political reasons.

Sadly I have come to the conclusion that there are parts of the world / cultures that are not capable of managing "western democratic values" and are probably better off being ruled by dictators war, war lords , royal families or whatever is culturally appropriate. And America needs to manage these relationships in terms of what is good for this country.

Posted on: 2016/9/29 11:47
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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TheBigGuy wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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SOS wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
The new Democratic party belligerence towards Russia and general militarism is fascinating. This is the party throughout the cold war wanted peace with the USSR, and thought we could learn a thing or two about Communism. Russia today, of course, isn't Communist at all and instead has a fairly conservative government (complete with a flat tax). Suddenly, you have people like Clinton wanting to fight Russia in Syria and Ukraine. People who thought Vietnam - which had Communists attempting to invade an allied democracy, wasn't a just war. But backing Islamist armies in Syria is fine (er, "moderate rebels"), backing a bunch of people in Ukraine who honor WW2 era leaders that sided with the Nazis is also a great idea. Also, while the Iraq war was a wasteful expense, we should pay for NATO without questioning any of the expenses. It is completely bizarre.


Thank you Comrade devilsadvocate, but you have two personalities on JCLIST. And this one - the devilsadvocate is the opposite of the other! Ha Ha!

Good arguments and the Russian Federation agrees with you. F*** NATO. NATO is no good! F*** Ukraine, which belongs to Russian Federation. F*** Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. They are little chickens that will soon be back in the coop! Russian Federation needs US president that can "look the other way" ha ha! Crimea is nice this time of year don't you agree?

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP, make Russian Federation...I mean America, great again!

Oh and DO NOT read this (right wing enough?):
http://index.heritage.org/military/20 ... rther-russian-aggression/


Yeah, the former Soviet Union is not really the US or Europe's problem. For a bunch of reasons, the most basic one being that there's zero reason to die for a regional conflict, plus few in the US understand (or care about) the history or the inherent intricacies. How many Americans have any idea what the status of Ukraine or Crimea was before the USSR? That's just one example. The result ends up being that Americans support "new Ukraine" - which basically is just different oligarchs fleecing the population, now promoting Ukrainian nationalism to keep the population focused on something other than the fact that they're no better off than before their "revolution" (and in fact, in many ways quite a bit worse off).

And NATO was fine when it was the US, France, the UK and other core allies. When they started bringing in Turkey, they had jumped the shark. As they expanded into E. Europe - it was purely strategic. It wasn't about protecting similar nations with intertwined histories and cultures, it was about projecting power and influence. The result of that kind of approach to the world? A massive national debt that we have no idea how we will repay.

Finally, absolutely many Republicans hate Russia. McCain, Romney, and plenty of others come to mind. What is fascinating to me is that in this election the Democrat is playing the role of warmongering while Trump isn't. Except that Democrats are falling into line.



Priceless watching that dolt Kerry snivel to the Russians about pulling out of the "peace talks". We should be aligned with the Russians and Assad against the Muslim terror groups. I am tired of nation building.

I saw on the news today that Obama now has 5000 US troops in Iraq. If him and Hillary left the 15000 in there 8 years ago... Iran would not be in control of Iraq, ISIS never would have formed and we would not have this manufactured refugee crisis.


I thought you were tired of nation building?

Posted on: 2016/9/29 3:32
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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SOS wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
The new Democratic party belligerence towards Russia and general militarism is fascinating. This is the party throughout the cold war wanted peace with the USSR, and thought we could learn a thing or two about Communism. Russia today, of course, isn't Communist at all and instead has a fairly conservative government (complete with a flat tax). Suddenly, you have people like Clinton wanting to fight Russia in Syria and Ukraine. People who thought Vietnam - which had Communists attempting to invade an allied democracy, wasn't a just war. But backing Islamist armies in Syria is fine (er, "moderate rebels"), backing a bunch of people in Ukraine who honor WW2 era leaders that sided with the Nazis is also a great idea. Also, while the Iraq war was a wasteful expense, we should pay for NATO without questioning any of the expenses. It is completely bizarre.


Thank you Comrade devilsadvocate, but you have two personalities on JCLIST. And this one - the devilsadvocate is the opposite of the other! Ha Ha!

Good arguments and the Russian Federation agrees with you. F*** NATO. NATO is no good! F*** Ukraine, which belongs to Russian Federation. F*** Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. They are little chickens that will soon be back in the coop! Russian Federation needs US president that can "look the other way" ha ha! Crimea is nice this time of year don't you agree?

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP, make Russian Federation...I mean America, great again!

Oh and DO NOT read this (right wing enough?):
http://index.heritage.org/military/20 ... rther-russian-aggression/


Yeah, the former Soviet Union is not really the US or Europe's problem. For a bunch of reasons, the most basic one being that there's zero reason to die for a regional conflict, plus few in the US understand (or care about) the history or the inherent intricacies. How many Americans have any idea what the status of Ukraine or Crimea was before the USSR? That's just one example. The result ends up being that Americans support "new Ukraine" - which basically is just different oligarchs fleecing the population, now promoting Ukrainian nationalism to keep the population focused on something other than the fact that they're no better off than before their "revolution" (and in fact, in many ways quite a bit worse off).

And NATO was fine when it was the US, France, the UK and other core allies. When they started bringing in Turkey, they had jumped the shark. As they expanded into E. Europe - it was purely strategic. It wasn't about protecting similar nations with intertwined histories and cultures, it was about projecting power and influence. The result of that kind of approach to the world? A massive national debt that we have no idea how we will repay.

Finally, absolutely many Republicans hate Russia. McCain, Romney, and plenty of others come to mind. What is fascinating to me is that in this election the Democrat is playing the role of warmongering while Trump isn't. Except that Democrats are falling into line.



Priceless watching that dolt Kerry snivel to the Russians about pulling out of the "peace talks". We should be aligned with the Russians and Assad against the Muslim terror groups. I am tired of nation building.

I saw on the news today that Obama now has 5000 US troops in Iraq. If him and Hillary left the 15000 in there 8 years ago... Iran would not be in control of Iraq, ISIS never would have formed and we would not have this manufactured refugee crisis.


This is exactly right. Also, don't forget our wonderful "success" in Libya, that is also helping get ISIS recruits.

Posted on: 2016/9/29 3:29
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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SOS wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
The new Democratic party belligerence towards Russia and general militarism is fascinating. This is the party throughout the cold war wanted peace with the USSR, and thought we could learn a thing or two about Communism. Russia today, of course, isn't Communist at all and instead has a fairly conservative government (complete with a flat tax). Suddenly, you have people like Clinton wanting to fight Russia in Syria and Ukraine. People who thought Vietnam - which had Communists attempting to invade an allied democracy, wasn't a just war. But backing Islamist armies in Syria is fine (er, "moderate rebels"), backing a bunch of people in Ukraine who honor WW2 era leaders that sided with the Nazis is also a great idea. Also, while the Iraq war was a wasteful expense, we should pay for NATO without questioning any of the expenses. It is completely bizarre.


Thank you Comrade devilsadvocate, but you have two personalities on JCLIST. And this one - the devilsadvocate is the opposite of the other! Ha Ha!

Good arguments and the Russian Federation agrees with you. F*** NATO. NATO is no good! F*** Ukraine, which belongs to Russian Federation. F*** Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. They are little chickens that will soon be back in the coop! Russian Federation needs US president that can "look the other way" ha ha! Crimea is nice this time of year don't you agree?

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP, make Russian Federation...I mean America, great again!

Oh and DO NOT read this (right wing enough?):
http://index.heritage.org/military/20 ... rther-russian-aggression/


Yeah, the former Soviet Union is not really the US or Europe's problem. For a bunch of reasons, the most basic one being that there's zero reason to die for a regional conflict, plus few in the US understand (or care about) the history or the inherent intricacies. How many Americans have any idea what the status of Ukraine or Crimea was before the USSR? That's just one example. The result ends up being that Americans support "new Ukraine" - which basically is just different oligarchs fleecing the population, now promoting Ukrainian nationalism to keep the population focused on something other than the fact that they're no better off than before their "revolution" (and in fact, in many ways quite a bit worse off).

And NATO was fine when it was the US, France, the UK and other core allies. When they started bringing in Turkey, they had jumped the shark. As they expanded into E. Europe - it was purely strategic. It wasn't about protecting similar nations with intertwined histories and cultures, it was about projecting power and influence. The result of that kind of approach to the world? A massive national debt that we have no idea how we will repay.

Finally, absolutely many Republicans hate Russia. McCain, Romney, and plenty of others come to mind. What is fascinating to me is that in this election the Democrat is playing the role of warmongering while Trump isn't. Except that Democrats are falling into line.



Priceless watching that dolt Kerry snivel to the Russians about pulling out of the "peace talks". We should be aligned with the Russians and Assad against the Muslim terror groups. I am tired of nation building.

I saw on the news today that Obama now has 5000 US troops in Iraq. If him and Hillary left the 15000 in there 8 years ago... Iran would not be in control of Iraq, ISIS never would have formed and we would not have this manufactured refugee crisis.

Posted on: 2016/9/29 2:40
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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SOS wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
The new Democratic party belligerence towards Russia and general militarism is fascinating. This is the party throughout the cold war wanted peace with the USSR, and thought we could learn a thing or two about Communism. Russia today, of course, isn't Communist at all and instead has a fairly conservative government (complete with a flat tax). Suddenly, you have people like Clinton wanting to fight Russia in Syria and Ukraine. People who thought Vietnam - which had Communists attempting to invade an allied democracy, wasn't a just war. But backing Islamist armies in Syria is fine (er, "moderate rebels"), backing a bunch of people in Ukraine who honor WW2 era leaders that sided with the Nazis is also a great idea. Also, while the Iraq war was a wasteful expense, we should pay for NATO without questioning any of the expenses. It is completely bizarre.


Thank you Comrade devilsadvocate, but you have two personalities on JCLIST. And this one - the devilsadvocate is the opposite of the other! Ha Ha!

Good arguments and the Russian Federation agrees with you. F*** NATO. NATO is no good! F*** Ukraine, which belongs to Russian Federation. F*** Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. They are little chickens that will soon be back in the coop! Russian Federation needs US president that can "look the other way" ha ha! Crimea is nice this time of year don't you agree?

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP, make Russian Federation...I mean America, great again!

Oh and DO NOT read this (right wing enough?):
http://index.heritage.org/military/20 ... rther-russian-aggression/


Yeah, the former Soviet Union is not really the US or Europe's problem. For a bunch of reasons, the most basic one being that there's zero reason to die for a regional conflict, plus few in the US understand (or care about) the history or the inherent intricacies. How many Americans have any idea what the status of Ukraine or Crimea was before the USSR? That's just one example. The result ends up being that Americans support "new Ukraine" - which basically is just different oligarchs fleecing the population, now promoting Ukrainian nationalism to keep the population focused on something other than the fact that they're no better off than before their "revolution" (and in fact, in many ways quite a bit worse off).

And NATO was fine when it was the US, France, the UK and other core allies. When they started bringing in Turkey, they had jumped the shark. As they expanded into E. Europe - it was purely strategic. It wasn't about protecting similar nations with intertwined histories and cultures, it was about projecting power and influence. The result of that kind of approach to the world? A massive national debt that we have no idea how we will repay.

Finally, absolutely many Republicans hate Russia. McCain, Romney, and plenty of others come to mind. What is fascinating to me is that in this election the Democrat is playing the role of warmongering while Trump isn't. Except that Democrats are falling into line.

Posted on: 2016/9/29 2:23
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Re: 9/26/2016: Presidential Debate (Hofstra)
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devilsadvocate wrote:
The new Democratic party belligerence towards Russia and general militarism is fascinating. This is the party throughout the cold war wanted peace with the USSR, and thought we could learn a thing or two about Communism. Russia today, of course, isn't Communist at all and instead has a fairly conservative government (complete with a flat tax). Suddenly, you have people like Clinton wanting to fight Russia in Syria and Ukraine. People who thought Vietnam - which had Communists attempting to invade an allied democracy, wasn't a just war. But backing Islamist armies in Syria is fine (er, "moderate rebels"), backing a bunch of people in Ukraine who honor WW2 era leaders that sided with the Nazis is also a great idea. Also, while the Iraq war was a wasteful expense, we should pay for NATO without questioning any of the expenses. It is completely bizarre.


Thank you Comrade devilsadvocate, but you have two personalities on JCLIST. And this one - the devilsadvocate is the opposite of the other! Ha Ha!

Good arguments and the Russian Federation agrees with you. F*** NATO. NATO is no good! F*** Ukraine, which belongs to Russian Federation. F*** Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. They are little chickens that will soon be back in the coop! Russian Federation needs US president that can "look the other way" ha ha! Crimea is nice this time of year don't you agree?

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP, make Russian Federation...I mean America, great again!

Oh and DO NOT read this (right wing enough?):
http://index.heritage.org/military/20 ... rther-russian-aggression/

Posted on: 2016/9/28 23:13
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