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Re: Homeless in Van Vorst Park
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Home away from home
 
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Let them go "jerk off" in Franks yard!!! Lets face it, most of them are not just homeless due to the economy. Many are drug addicts, thieves, perverts or just mentally unstable. GET THEM OUT OF THE PARK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted on: 2011/10/26 12:22
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Home away from home
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Spread blood and bone fertilizer or something even more smelly (but good for the garden) right around the gazebo.
We need to remember we don't have a toilet block for them to use and who is really going to be prepared to allow them to use their toilet ! Cityhall should set-up a no thrills portable toilet block and shower for these homeless people, in an area that has the least amount of impact on others.
Posted on: 2011/10/26 7:29
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: Homeless in Van Vorst Park
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Quite a regular
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I just posted this on the website,
Please post a version for yourself. This is the best outlet any of us have to rectify this issue. Good Morning, I and many other people have been concerned with the growing population of homeless people congregating under the Van Vorst Park GAzebo. It is become a regular occurance to see fecal matter around the park, and often I have seen them urinating in public. I have small children as do many other tax payers in the community and I find it terribly disgusting to think that My children are playing in a park where homeless people masterbate, poop, and pee everywhere. I wouold say something to the people in question but I am there every morning and would feel unsafe doing so. I understand that this is a tough thing to accomplish, getting them out of the park, but if you read this thread posted on JC list you can tell that this is a growing concern and issue for many of the residents on the neighborhood. http://jclist.com/modules/newbb/viewt ... id=279165#forumpost279165
Posted on: 2011/10/24 13:46
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Quite a regular
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I have been in similar situations with some of my neighbors.
Calling the police does not always work. To start suggesting some solutions, I have found that taking a tasteful picture of the offender doing something offensive is a quick solution to the problem. Say for example, the urinating and defecating issue. take a tasteful picture of the offender and then call the cops. The picture really cannot be disputed. Then the cop will give the guy a warning and if he does it again he will go to jail for the night. I know this sounds rediculous to do, but if you caqre enought to complain about the issue, maybe you care enough to do something. Once you make the bums life a pain there in the park, by calling the cops all the time on him then they will move on. another option is the link below. they are must more responsive then the cops. http://mygovhelp.com/JERSEYCITYNJ/_cs ... MIMA%5bIXKTYYCEPS&cat=0&=
Posted on: 2011/10/24 13:36
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Re: Homeless in Van Vorst Park
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Quote:
Gross. Did you call the police when you saw this? It's a playground, small children play there (including mine). That's just f*cking nasty. And yes, move them somewhere else that's not in a PLAYGROUND. I don't understand what the outrage is about. These people should not be allowed on the playground equipment. No adult should be, unless they are with a child.
Posted on: 2011/10/24 13:35
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Home away from home
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So a possible solution is that they become someone else's problem?
I understand people's concerns and again...if you feel like you have to reach out to the police...please do ...especially getting more detail and responses from others about what is happening in VVP. I still think some people lack a bit of compassion and it shows when it boils down to NIMBY attitude.
Posted on: 2011/10/24 7:46
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Home away from home
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You're not being heartless. People get upset about things but they're directing their anger at the wrong people. I'd do what others have suggested when dealing with the JCPD. Have as many people as possible call the JCPD as often as possible. The squeaky wheel gets greased.
The homeless will find another place to camp. They're homeless. That's what they do.
Posted on: 2011/10/24 7:24
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Quote:
- (201) 547-5477 is the JC non-emergency line Grace Church and St Lucy's provide food and shelter downtown for the homeless. http://www.gracevanvorst.org/ http://www.ccannj.com/
Posted on: 2011/10/24 5:21
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Quite a regular
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Uh, that was no "gentleman" on the playground equipment...
Posted on: 2011/10/24 2:50
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Newbie
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I just joined this list and noticed this thread immediately. I too have noticed the increased number of persons sleeping in the park. I completely understand that this is a sensitive issue and there is a fear of saying anything about it and coming across as heartless, but I do believe most people who are uncomfortable are actually concerned about the safety and welfare of themselves and others. I am one of those people. I walk my dog both early morning and late at night. I don't have any issue with someone who is sleeping, but it seems to have gone beyond that. Just last week I walked through late night and a gentlemen was masturbating on the playground equipment. Another night a gentlemen was visibily intoxicated, drinking, and walking around in circles yelling at himself and laughing hysterically. While these are technically isolated incidents, I have seen these same people over and over again. Obviously these may be the extremes in this situation, but there is no doubt they are cause for concern.
I am not sure why some people are becoming so defensive and making assumptions about others' concerns. The fact that the topic was raised on this site shows that most of us are looking for a reasonable and safe solution to potential problem. Just my thoughts.....
Posted on: 2011/10/24 1:06
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Home away from home
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Quote:
 Good article.
Posted on: 2011/10/23 18:22
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Fair enough. I'm aware that medication can have very unpleasant side affects. I also see the argument against giving someone a life sentence. You've probably seen the Law and Order episode about this. Another issue with no easy answers.
Posted on: 2011/10/23 18:18
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Re: Homeless in Van Vorst Park
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Home away from home
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Associated Press
PORTLAND, Oregon ? When Occupy Wall Street protesters took over two parks in Portland's soggy downtown, they pitched 300 tents and offered free food, medical care and shelter to anyone. They weren't just building, like so many of their brethren across the nation, a community to protest what they see as corporate greed. They also created an ideal place for the homeless. Some were already living in the parks, while others were drawn from elsewhere to the encampment's open doors. Now, protesters from Portland to Los Angeles to Atlanta are trying to distinguish between homeless people who are joining their movement and those who are there for the amenities. When night falls in Portland, for instance, protesters have been dealing with fights, drunken arguments and the display of the occasional knife. However, many homeless say the protests have helped them speak out against the economic troubles that sent them to the streets in the first place. "The city wasn't giving us what we needed," said Joseph Gordon, 31, who trekked his way from Cincinnati two months ago and noted that there is nearly always enough food but never enough shelter. "You can't feed your problem away. It took this camp to show people how it really is." As protesters across the country try to coalescence around an agenda in the coming weeks and months, they are trying to make life work in camps that have become small-scale replicas of the cities in which they were erected. And just like those cities, they are dealing with many of the same problems the local governments have struggled for decades to solve. Some organizers see the protest and the inclusion of the homeless as an opportunity to demonstrate their political ideals. They see the possibility to show that the homeless are not hopeless and that they, too, can become a functional part of society. In Portland, the protest has swallowed up two square blocks. There are shaggy haired college kids, do-gooder hippies, and couples with their young children. They came by the dozen, in cars and vans, on bikes and on foot and in rides hitched on the highway. Rain falls daily and dry socks are at a premium. At the center of the camp are the medical, information, library and wellness tents. Along one side are families, who established a play area for children. On the opposite side is the "A-Camp" ? for anarchist. It's where the city's anarchist faction and long-term homeless sleep. "We're here to spoil each other," said Kat Enyeart, a 25-year-old medic who says she spends half her time tending to the homeless, some of whom are physically and mentally ill. "It's a big, messy, beautiful thing." As the occupation enters its fourth week, divisions have begun to emerge. Without the ability to enforce laws and with little capacity to deal with disruptive or even violent people, the camp is holding together as it struggles to maintain a sense of order and purpose. One man recently created a stir when he registered with police as a sex offender living in the park. A man with mental health problems threatened to spread AIDS via a syringe. At night, the park echoes with screaming matches and scuffles over space, blankets, tents or nothing at all. Last week, a homeless man menaced a crowd of spectators with a pair of scissors. Micaiah Dutt, a four-tour veteran of the Iraq War, and two other former soldiers had no problem tackling and subduing the man. Other members of the protest's volunteer security detail have been punched and threatened with knives. Dutt said he felt helpless at times and noted that the man he helped subdue could, in theory, press assault charges against him. "I served four tours in Iraq, and I felt more safe there at times than here," he told a gathering of protest organizers under a drizzly evening sky. "There, I had a weapon and knew the people around me were with me. Here, I don't know." Dutt said the protests are not just about the radicals and the politicians. "It's about our community taking care of itself because the city, county and federal governments have neglected this population," he said. In Los Angeles, protesters are dealing with similar issues: Homeless transplants from the city's Skid Row have set up their tents within the larger tent city. No violence has been reported, but protest organizers are attempting to discourage people who are only at the encampment for the amenities. Some, like Steven Pierieto, said they've fallen on difficult times but are at the protest because they support the movement. They scorn those who come for the sandwiches but never lift a protest sign. Life in camp, Pierieto said, is far better than life on Skid Row. "I'm very comfortable right here," Pierieto said. "I don't have to smell urine. I don't have to see people smoking crack. I have porta-potties right here. It's peaceful." In Oakland, California, where the camp on the City Hall lawn has become a tourist attraction, organizer Susanne Sarley said getting along for a common cause will be an ongoing challenge. "This is the homeless people's turf," Sarley said. "This area we're occupying is their home. We can't move them. We have to cooperate and respect the community that we're in." The friction between the homeless and the protesters has not been the case in other cities. In Atlanta, for instance, it has been a benefit. The homeless have helped newbie protesters learn how to put up tents that can withstand wind gusts, maintain peace in close quarters and survive the outdoors. Billy Jones, 28, provides security at the protests. Jones said he's not just looking for free food. "Don't have the misconception that most homeless people are always out for a meal," Jones said. "I'm here because there are things I can lend that are helpful to the movement. I can get food anywhere. I don't have to be at Occupy Atlanta to get food." In Salt Lake City, protesters see working with the homeless as an opportunity to demonstrate their political views. "We can help people get out of homelessness," said organizer Jesse Fruhwirth, 30. "We have already surpassed any effort the state or city has ever made to create a sober, happy space for the homeless." Brent Jackson, 46, is one of the homeless who has been recruited as a volunteer and is an active member of a planning group. He said the protest's message rings especially true with homeless people. "The homeless are the bottom of the 99 percent," Jackson said, referring to the percent of Americans the protest says it represents apart from the wealthiest 1 percent. "We have a lot of disillusioned Americans, but they don't think what happened to us can happen to them," he said. "Except it can." ___ Cristian Salazar in New York, Christina Hoag in Los Angeles, Harry R. Weber in Atlanta, Josh Loftin in Salt Lake City and Terry Collins in Oakland. California, contributed to this report.
Posted on: 2011/10/23 9:40
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Home away from home
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Does anyone have actual contact information for groups that do homeless outreach, shelters that have any sort of shuttle that does pickup, and the non emergency line for police? That seems to be what was requested...not a bunch of politicized rants.
And for the poster who mentioned all the homeless in Boston - I was a soup kitchen volunteer in Boston for several years. I worked with Project Bread which is one of if not the biggest soup kitchens in the city. Part of why there are so many homeless, paradoxically, is that there are so many services in that area. Many of them are not stable enough to make it into a long term shelter or housing situation (shelters obviously prohibit drug/alcohol abuse) but get by begging for change and eating at the soup kitchens. As for the ACLU and individual rights....I also worked in a public mental health hospital with patients who were involuntarily committed, mostly schizophrenic. It is a really complicated issue because the side effects of successful medication treatment can be severe, including Tourette's-like involuntary twitching (google 'tardive dyskenesia'). Even with access to treatment many patients are non compliant as soon as they have a choice. I still haven't made up my mind about whether it is "better" to forcibly medicate a non violent schizophrenic, or "better" to let them be homeless and often addicted and hope their erratic behavior never escalates.
Posted on: 2011/10/22 14:28
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Home away from home
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I just did. And I found that with a quick search.
Posted on: 2011/10/21 16:28
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Just can't stay away
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Br6Dr,
Yes, do please enlighten. I had not heard this before but it could be plausible. Let me know what you base this on please. Quote:
Posted on: 2011/10/21 16:18
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Re: Homeless in Van Vorst Park
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Home away from home
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http://www.claytoncramer.com/speeches/mental.htm -snip- Eventually, Ron reached a point where he went to talk to the community mental health center --and they promptly decided that he was sufficiently dangerous to himself that they sent him to a mental hospital for observation. And this is where one tragedy -- my brother's descent into paranoid schizophrenia -- was compounded by another tragedy. My brother was held for observation for 72 hours. Then, he was held for another 14 days for further observation and medication. But the psychiatrist in charge of our local hospital's locked ward told us that there was little chance of him being committed. As it was explained to my father, "By the time someone's been pumped full of Thorazine for 14 days, if they still seem dangerous to a judge, they have to be really dangerous." On at least one occasion, someone who purported to be an advocate for the rights of mental patients was present in court to make sure that all the i's were dotted and all the t's were crossed --and that no one was locked up against their will in a mental hospital. What? My brother attacked complete strangers for no reason whatsoever. He smashed in windows at our house, he was saying things that were clearly crazy, and he wasn't going to be kept in a mental hospital? Sad to say, this has been a recurring pattern of my brother's life ever since. He has been arrested dozens of times for attacks on complete strangers. He has been arrested for all sorts of bizarre behaviors. He attacked my mother with a shovel once. He tried to strangle one of my sisters once. He tried to strangle our mother, a year later. He has lived in urine-soaked hotel rooms -- and sometimes he has been a homeless person. And from all those incidents, spanning 16 years of severe mental illness, there have been only two times (to my knowledge) that he has been held for more than observation. In both cases, the long-term care he received dramatically improved his mental health, at least for a few months -- or until he stopped taking his medication. (We are still counting the months of the current improved situation, and hoping that this time, it sticks.) The rest of the time, judges have refused to lock him up for treatment. Let me emphasize that this was not a peculiar situation; Ron is not unique. Indeed, Ron is in better condition than many schizophrenics. I've read that in 1960, there were about 550,000 people in mental hospitals in the U.S.; today there are about 100,000 -- even though our population has grown by almost 50%. Have we gotten that much better at helping the mentally ill to lead productive lives outside? I would like to think so. When chlorpromazine was introduced several decades ago, I understand it was regarded as a bit of a wonder drug, with the same irrational optimism that Prozac seemed to produce about five years ago. Sadly, much of that drop in mental hospital patients wasn't because the system is doing so much better of a job. We can see where at least some of those people went -- suffering squalid, filthy, and miserable lives under overpasses, pushing all their worldly possessions around in shopping carts, begging in our streets, catching tuberculosis and pneumonia. They die of exposure, of murder, and quite often, when their delusions or their misery become unbearable, they die by their own hand. I have seen the claim that 15% of schizophrenics commit suicide. I don't know if that is true, but I know some truly tragic stories. My mother has a friend who has two schizophrenic children; her daughter stopped taking her medicine, and was overwhelmed by her illness. She lay down on the railroad tracks near Barstow one night to die -- and she did.
Posted on: 2011/10/21 16:03
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Re: Homeless in Van Vorst Park
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This past summer someone crapped on the jungle gym at VVP. My daughter also got poop on her pants a few years ago when someone left a turd at the bottom of the slide. I've also seen poop behind the benches inside the playground (where the signs are). I am pretty sure the poop on the jungle gym were not left by dogs, but by people (not sure about the benches). Were they homeless people doing it? Not sure, but where the hell else are they going to crap and piss at night?
Posted on: 2011/10/21 14:50
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Posted on: 2011/10/21 14:49
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Recently I called the cops after I spotted a guy casing cars and houses. I had him thrown in jail last year for theft and I figured he was back for more. When the cops showed up they stopped him and chatted and told him to "go be homeless somewhere else".
Posted on: 2011/10/21 14:36
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Re: Homeless in Van Vorst Park
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I think we should replace the vagrants in the park with wild dogs.
This solves several problems: 1. the unleashed domestic dogs will not be a problem in the park because the wild dogs will eat them; 2. late night basketball games will no longer be a problem because the wild dogs will eat them; 3. the homeless will no longer be a problem because the wild dogs will eat them; 4. unattended children will not be a problem because the wild dogs will eat them; 5. the Jesus freaks will no longer be a problem because the wild dogs will eat them. Also, the wild dog solution will work in either Van Vorst Park or Hamilton Park or both.
Posted on: 2011/10/21 14:34
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Quote:
Don't drag Hamiliton Park into this, Ass Hat. I've seen enlightened neighbors doing morning yoga in the Gazebo right next to sleeping homeless persons on cardboard. There is a shelter at St. Lucy's and Grace Church provides meals, the Salvation Army has programs, why not get involved and volunteer rather than whine about the unpleasantries of urban living. Do we care for your neighbourhood or just our neighbours who are like us?
Posted on: 2011/10/21 14:13
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Quite a regular
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Don't have time to respond to each individual dig here so I'll just group it all into one post.
To all the Jesus freaks....let's just leave religion out of this. How about we just focus on the issue at hand and not worry about my soul heading for eternal damnation. To those that want the homeless to crap in my yard...thank you, we could use the fertilizer. I think someone here also mentioned gold dog leashes and that this is not foo foo Manhattan. 1) If the dogs were living in the park i'd be sure to have an issue with them too regardless of their precious metal leashes. 2) This has nothing to with what standard of living I aspire to. If i live in JC why the heck would you think i'm a manhattan elitist? I just want a safe and clean park. Are those really the standards of the elite? Wherever i lived, be it Hoboken or under the turnpike, I'd want a clean and safe environment. My wife has had a crazy park dweller scream at here just a few weeks ago. One of the regulars has also yelled and screamed at me when I refused to stop and chat with him. No big deal as these things happen anywhere, but it lets me know that at least some of the homeless in VVP are not stable. If any of these people are even slightly unstable why do we think it's best to let them set up shop in a public area? Excuse me for looking for a solution instead of having an epiphany and hoping the church doors swing open and shine illuminating 'god-a-rade'on all. Give me a break. Let's stop with the assumptions (i.e. people shooting heroin and rampant crime) and just deal with the facts. Let's also avoid the Occupy movement and Wall St's role in the homeless people that are living in VVP. Let's just try to stay on topic and not use this thread to rant wild theories. Parkman, I've read on this thread that you do a lot for the park. How can I help out the non-profit? Great to see someone actually taking the initiative and not just voicing their 2 cents in a message board. It seems like you've gone above and beyond what anyone else here has done and I'd be happy to help as well.
Posted on: 2011/10/21 13:14
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Br6 before I assume what you mean. Could you be more specific in terms of how the ACLU prevents these persons from receiving the care they need? Registered Republican here but does not behave as one.
Thank you for making a difference Parkman. I mean it.
Posted on: 2011/10/21 12:17
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Home away from home
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Quote:
I don't blame the cops for this, there's not much they can do. What would you have them do, arrest every homeless person in the city on a daily basis? I blame the ACLU for making it impossible to give the mentally ill homeless the treatment they need. (And I'm a liberal.)
Posted on: 2011/10/21 6:30
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So we should just accept that people are going to leave piss, shit, needles and vodka bottles all over our neighborhood? Can I do that too, or is it only acceptable if I'm homeless?
Posted on: 2011/10/21 4:41
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I commend you on your efforts. An intelligent response is refreshing. But again, it backs up my claim that if anything is to get done, it needs to start at the top. The problem is, the top doesn't care. Most cops don't live here, so they really have no interest in this. It's a "grade C" call at best. It's easy to kick the dirt under the rug, but eventually the rug wears out and what's underneath comes to the surface. I know it's not an easy job, but a lot of us appreciate the thankless job it takes to keep a public park "acceptable" to the general public. Education is the toughest education!
Posted on: 2011/10/21 4:35
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From what I've read in the past I can only commend what you do. Unfortunately I have my opinion and to a degree differs from most here. VVP is a hop skip and a jump from the....... dun dun dun "HOOD" these things are going to happen. The only way to solve it is to turn JC and everything around it to a crime free zone.....which we all know will never happen , or at least not in our lifetime. In the meantime to keep the park up to you down towners standards its gonna take a lot of sweat and tears.
Posted on: 2011/10/21 2:45
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Home away from home
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I really didn?t want to get into this, but our non-profit are the ones that deal with this on a daily basis. You don?t clean up the human waste on the playground equipment, have to shovel sh.t out of the gardens that the children are allowed to play in, collect all the empty liquor bottles every day, and find empty packets of drugs and needles throughout the park.
I?ve asked our 5 regulars to please throw their bottles in the trash, not to sleep on the picnic table benches (because it prevents others from using them), not leave their cardboard boxes in the gardens or in the gazebo, and did not call the police once until the last week when numerous parents expressed concern over the broken bottles and human waste around the park (and no, it?s not from dogs). I first called social services, who came out to talk to most of our homeless and none were willing to accept help. Unless they are a threat to themselves or others, they can?t be forced off the streets. The last resort has been to call the police and have them removed from the park. This is not a lack of empathy; we have been polite, caring, and tried to be helpful, but it?s gotten to the point that the quality of life for the vast majority of park users has been impacted. What we need is a system to help these people who are in a very bad place in their lives?this is not class warfare or elitism, we have been working to improve the quality of life for those in our community and the city needs to find a way to help these individuals too.
Posted on: 2011/10/21 2:28
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Bums make you uncomfortable .......... Even foo foo manhattan has bums.Get over it you live in Jersey City in case you forgot. Unless you start finding needles and poop every where calm your nerves or try Hoboken.
Posted on: 2011/10/21 2:26
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