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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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Are the Avalon Cove Apartments built the same way? The Edgewater buildings burned before and instead of learning from the previous fire they decided to build it the same way. This is why I do not like newly constructed buildings, since they had higher standards back in the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s except for the asbestos and lead paint. Just imagine if this had been at night, we would certainly be looking at many casualties.

Posted on: 2015/1/23 14:35
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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The MO of Avalon has been: build cheaply and call it luxury. They have been wildly successful at it. I am amazed seeing 4-story buildings built out of two by fours, plywood and gypsum board. Props and decorations in theaters are built better.

Posted on: 2015/1/23 14:29
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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Unfortunately, this is not a local issue tied to any sort of corruption or bribery. NJ follows the IBC (International Building Code). It is an international code that is adopted across the country. NJ does make some minor amendments to it, but it is widely left in its original form as published by the International Code Council. That's not to say that cities / municipalities cannot adopt their own local codes that go above and beyond this code; but most elect to follow the IBC. The main tipping point for construction is when a building goes from a low/mid-rise building to a high-rise building. High-rise building construction is held to a much higher standard with regard to construction materials, methods and fire safety. Many of the sprawling rental apartment buildings you see outside of cities like JC (which usually go high for lack of space) keep the building below the high-rise threshold and use the type of construction that the Avalon in Edgewater used. That?s why they are wide and not high.

It is unlikely to see this type of construction change until the ICC decides to change it. Unfortunately, you typically don't see such drastic changes unless there is a loss of life. I don't agree with it, but that's usually what drives sweeping changes to such codes.

Posted on: 2015/1/23 14:11
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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Anyone who has seen the newer construction in downtown JC could tell you how cheap and flimsy the materials are that are used. The only building I would move into is the Hamilton Place building and that's because it was built on the bones of the old St. Francis Hospital.

Posted on: 2015/1/23 13:22
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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hero69 wrote:
wouldn't fire sprinklers have helped?


They had those and they were on but they dont always suffice. What made the fire worse was a leaking gas line.


Posted on: 2015/1/23 11:50
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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wouldn't fire sprinklers have helped?

Posted on: 2015/1/23 8:42
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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AvalonBay Communities, owners of the complex, said the building met fire and safety codes.

"The purpose of those codes is not to prevent the building from burning down, but rather to ensure that there is sufficient time and opportunity for all occupants to exit safely in the event of a fire," the company wrote. "We are grateful that everyone at Avalon at Edgewater was able to leave the building and get to safety without serious injury."

To those at Avalon Cove, don't worry, in the event of a fire, all of your stuff will burn but you will have plenty of time to exit!! Be grateful of this opportunity!!


This seriously highlights what suckers people are and how they have no idea how cheap-ass their homes really are - People were spending $350,000 plus for cheap-ass construction - This company is a disgrace; sure the construction was up to code, the codes are no doubt flawed (especially when you have developers heavily donating heaps of money to politicians that can have codes amended for cost cutting construction solutions).

These current building codes we have are so general and open to interpretation that one could nearly have a home built with used toilet paper and pass.

Posted on: 2015/1/23 3:56
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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"Edgewater Fire Chief Tom Jacobson said earlier the lightweight, wooden construction of the Avalon Bay complex allowed the flames to spread so rapidly. In a statement released Thursday afternoon, AvalonBay Communities, owners of the complex, said the building met fire and safety codes.

"The purpose of those codes is not to prevent the building from burning down, but rather to ensure that there is sufficient time and opportunity for all occupants to exit safely in the event of a fire," the company wrote. "We are grateful that everyone at Avalon at Edgewater was able to leave the building and get to safety without serious injury."

To those at Avalon Cove, don't worry, in the event of a fire, all of your stuff will burn but you will have plenty of time to exit!! Be grateful of this opportunity!!

Posted on: 2015/1/23 3:19
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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Just look at how fast those buildings go up. There are a few that take a month or two! "Luxury condos" or rentals where the luxury means you get a washer/dryer and some granite countertops.

In the meantime, I am just glad no loss of life (which is most important).

Posted on: 2015/1/23 3:18
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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Lightweight construction forces firefighters to work in dangerous conditions, fire chiefs said.

Cheap-ass construction with inadequate fire safety measures - Typical of most construction in JC.

My tip is that you're much better off in 'walk-up' pre-50's established bricks and mortar apartments and housing, then the cheap 'eye-candy' crap being built now.
This is all cityhall's fault (over the years) for allowing standards to drop and inferior building products being used - Some in the industry call them 'ikea complexes' - Look good but crap.

Then again was it 'lightening'

Posted on: 2015/1/23 3:02
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Sadly, when Schundler was mayor, he laid off housing inspectors. The reasoning being - the developers would inspect themselves. I had jury duty on a faulty elevator on the waterfront complex a while back. It is scary to think government is lax in this area.
so true; people who think that businesses can regulate themselves should have their heads examined


To me. There's something seriously wrong when the City debates this http://jclist.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=33546

over what happened in Edgewater....

Posted on: 2015/1/23 2:57
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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Yvonne wrote:
Sadly, when Schundler was mayor, he laid off housing inspectors. The reasoning being - the developers would inspect themselves. I had jury duty on a faulty elevator on the waterfront complex a while back. It is scary to think government is lax in this area.
so true; people who think that businesses can regulate themselves should have their heads examined

Posted on: 2015/1/23 2:48
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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Quick poll. What would you rather see?

1. The City tackle this: http://jclist.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=33546

2. Or make sure Edgewater doesn't happen in JC?



Posted on: 2015/1/23 2:33
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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neverleft wrote:
(wow)


Blowtorch accidentally sparked Edgewater fire, Christie and officials confirm

By Kathryn Brenzel and Myles Ma | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com
on January 22, 2015 at 6:06 PM, updated January 22, 2015 at 7:09 PM

EDGEWATER? Maintenance workers accidentally sparked the blaze that torched an Edgewater apartment complex Wednesday and displaced more than 1,000 people, officials said.

Gov. Chris Christie and local officials on Thursday night confirmed that maintenance workers performing plumbing work with a blowtorch started the fire.

full piece...

http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/20 ... _fire.html#incart_m-rpt-1


From this article:

"Christie said the state would conduct a separate investigation to ensure the building met current fire codes. He also said the state may review current fire codes in the wake of the fire."

I will repeat my question. Why has such dangerous cheap construction been deemed acceptable by the codes? Someone else in this thread stated that this type of construction is banned in townhouse/condo units (presumably because it is dangerous), but those codes don't apply because these were apartments. Why?

It seems like apartment developers bribed whoever was responsible for this code. Unless there is a good reason for the "apartment exception."

Posted on: 2015/1/23 0:36
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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(wow)


Blowtorch accidentally sparked Edgewater fire, Christie and officials confirm

By Kathryn Brenzel and Myles Ma | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com
on January 22, 2015 at 6:06 PM, updated January 22, 2015 at 7:09 PM

EDGEWATER? Maintenance workers accidentally sparked the blaze that torched an Edgewater apartment complex Wednesday and displaced more than 1,000 people, officials said.

Gov. Chris Christie and local officials on Thursday night confirmed that maintenance workers performing plumbing work with a blowtorch started the fire.

full piece...

http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/20 ... _fire.html#incart_m-rpt-1

Posted on: 2015/1/23 0:12
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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Yvonne wrote:
Sadly, when Schundler was mayor, he laid off housing inspectors. The reasoning being - the developers would inspect themselves. I had jury duty on a faulty elevator on the waterfront complex a while back. It is scary to think government is lax in this area.

Let the mouse guard the cheese.

Posted on: 2015/1/22 23:58
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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Oh great, now the expanse of corrupted laws... Half of Hoboken 20 year old buildings are made of wood frame at the very least. The code should be mandatory on concrete floor/walls beyond a certain size.

The way buildings are made in this country is beyond mind boggling. Wood and sheet rock, such a BS.

Posted on: 2015/1/22 23:04
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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One of the commenters on NJ.com said that firewalls are required between townhouse/condo units (new, wood construction), but since Avalon is an apartment building, those codes don't apply.

Posted on: 2015/1/22 22:53
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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The news said this type of construction is banned in NYC.

Posted on: 2015/1/22 22:11
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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JCMan8 wrote:
Why is this "tress" construction considered acceptable? Who makes this determination?

If fire sprinklers are not enough to stop an originally "minor" fire from burning the whole place to the ground, I think we should revisit this issue. And I disagree with the message that some raised here that this is the renter's responsibility. If a particular type of construction raises too many dangers, it should not be permitted, period.


unfortunately this is not just an issue with this construction, almost all townhomes across nnj (and usa?) are constructed this way with wooden frames - society hills, the new wesmont station townhomes etc....

i never understood why this is the case for connected townhomes, as it's a giant fire harzard. In other countries like china despite whatever shoddy worksmanship, all connected townhomes are required to be built with concrete frames/walls to prevent fires from spreading. Much like the highrises here are required to be concrete.


Posted on: 2015/1/22 22:00
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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I also recall that fire and if I recall correctly it was also Avalon back then. I was dating someone back then who lived in Edgewater, so I was over there a lot.

Posted on: 2015/1/22 21:33
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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The Jersey City Fire Department sent a pair of marine units to help quell the five-alarm blaze that engulfed a luxury apartment complex in Edgewater and displaced around 1,000 borough residents Wednesday night.

Jerry Cala, assistant director of the Jersey City Department of Public Safety, said two boats went to the fire that destroyed the 408-unit Avalon apartment complex off River Road. However, when the boats arrived, marine units from the New York Fire Department were already on scene.

The Jersey City boats, which arrived at around 8 p.m., remained on standby until midnight, Cala said.

The non-fatal fire started just before 4:30 p.m. and was still smoldering this morning, NJ Advance Media reported. Two hundred and forty of the complex's 408 units were destroyed in the blaze, displacing 500 residents while an additional 500 residents of the surrounding neighborhoods were also temporarily forced out of their homes, NJ Advance Media reported.

"Fortunately last night there was not a lot of wind, that would exacerbate the problem," Cala said.

"If Jersey City ran into that type of situation and we used up our resources, towns around Hudson County would come in and provide mutual aid," Cala said, adding that the city's 575-paid member department has more resource to handle similar fires than volunteer departments like Edgewater.

Cala agreed that the fire that tore through the Avalon complex is a reminder of the type of inferno the Jersey City Fire Department could face potentially face.

However, Cala pointed to the city's mutual aid agreements in Hudson County and beyond, as well as additional resources, including a pair of high volume pumpers that can deliver 2,000 gallons a minute and a Neptune system that can pump water long distances in the event of a supply shortage.

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Posted on: 2015/1/22 21:22
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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Conformist wrote:
Wasn't there a huge fire at Avalon Edgewater during construction about ten years ago as well? I seem to remember an enormous fire that nearly spread to the nearby oil tanks.



By James Kleimann | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com
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on January 21, 2015 at 8:30 PM, updated January 22, 2015 at 12:42 AM

It's not the first time a massive inferno has engulfed the Avalon apartment complex ?? the 408-unit building overlooking the Palisades Cliffs was under construction on Aug. 30, 2000 when a fast-moving fire ripped through the property and destroyed a dozen surrounding homes before eventually fizzling out.

Though no deaths or serious injuries were recorded, the speed and ferocity of the blaze made it one of the most memorable in the history of Bergen County.

More - NJ.com


Yes, I remember seeing this burning from the West Side Highway at the time. It was dramatic!

Posted on: 2015/1/22 19:35
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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Why is this "tress" construction considered acceptable? Who makes this determination?

If fire sprinklers are not enough to stop an originally "minor" fire from burning the whole place to the ground, I think we should revisit this issue. And I disagree with the message that some raised here that this is the renter's responsibility. If a particular type of construction raises too many dangers, it should not be permitted, period.

Posted on: 2015/1/22 19:13
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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Over 1000 of our neighbors lost their homes yesterday. Give what you can. I just did:

www.EdgewaterStrong.com


Posted on: 2015/1/22 18:52
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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How to help residents displaced by Edgewater apartment blaze

http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/20 ... r_apart.html#incart_river

Posted on: 2015/1/22 18:48
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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Conformist wrote:
Wasn't there a huge fire at Avalon Edgewater during construction about ten years ago as well? I seem to remember an enormous fire that nearly spread to the nearby oil tanks.



By James Kleimann | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com
Email the author | Follow on Twitter
on January 21, 2015 at 8:30 PM, updated January 22, 2015 at 12:42 AM

It's not the first time a massive inferno has engulfed the Avalon apartment complex ?? the 408-unit building overlooking the Palisades Cliffs was under construction on Aug. 30, 2000 when a fast-moving fire ripped through the property and destroyed a dozen surrounding homes before eventually fizzling out.

Though no deaths or serious injuries were recorded, the speed and ferocity of the blaze made it one of the most memorable in the history of Bergen County.

More - NJ.com

Posted on: 2015/1/22 17:58
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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Wasn't there a huge fire at Avalon Edgewater during construction about ten years ago as well? I seem to remember an enormous fire that nearly spread to the nearby oil tanks.

Edit: Yes, definitely the same site, though I don't know if it was the same developer. It was about halfway finished when a huge fire consumed the entire structure, and it was just a smoking ruin for a few years before they started construction again. Not sure when Avalon came into the picture.

Posted on: 2015/1/22 17:52
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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AVB is up $1.83.

Posted on: 2015/1/22 17:35
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Re: Massive Edgewater fire
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****Correction***** I just spoke to my friend about this. She said she did hear an alarm as she was parking.....but thought it was coming from TJs...in the area where they unload their supplies.

We did not hear the alarm as we left.*****************

I met a friend up at TJs around 2 yesterday. We left there around 2:27. She drove from the back of the lot which leads u right up the front of the complex. We then took a left on River Road to drive 30 seconds to Mitsuwa. We did not hear any alarms nor see any smoke at the time.

We had a good lunch at Mitsuwa. We left exactly at 4:27 pm. We saw no fire or emergency vehicles....near the complex at the time. It(fire) must have been building inside for some time.....

Posted on: 2015/1/22 15:14
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