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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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fyi, the KKK was a bunch of-wait for it-white Democrats, who also terrorized Republicans.

Posted on: 2015/11/25 21:21
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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dtjcview wrote:
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HPYC wrote:
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I find the whole conversation Trump started pretty disgusting.


Trump knew exactly what he was doing. He knew his comments would polarize America. And he knew that a lot of people supported his stated views on Muslims. Trump is simply representing those views.

It's much better to have the conversation, than not have it.

+1

The problem moving ahead for the President and the Democratic candidates is it didn't take much to blow the divide wide open, and I fear they are not going to be able to spin this back. Even the Democratic candidate most credible on national security issues, Hilary Clinton, refuses to say 'Islamic Radicals' and refers to 'Jihadists'. As Pete Hamill noted in Time, "there are no Eskimo Radicals".

We need a conversation about this, but it remains to be seen if that will happen. The Democrat and progressive (and I am one) is too driven by political correctness to address the nation's unease about Muslims amongst us, while the Republican and conservative stance is too fear-driven to risk taking the high road.

Posted on: 2015/11/25 18:55
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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Posted on: 2015/11/25 18:35
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:

As a side note, the only reason we oppose Iran is because Saudia Arabia wants us to do so.


Okay, I'll bite. I guess American thirst for oil and the Israel lobby have no role, right? Exclusively because of KSA?


America thirst for oil and support for the KSA are completely related.

And sure, if you want to throw Israel in there too, be my guest.

Posted on: 2015/11/24 22:32
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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score09 wrote:
Wow, seeing some hysterical and xenophobic posts. It?s like the capitalism fascists are coming out of the woodwork here, so much hysteria, lol. Ironically, it?s just where it -- the dominant elite ? wants you, lol. The fear of ISIS, the fear of Al Queda, the fear of Iran. The United States -- or more accurately the dominant Western elites who invade, oppress and manipulate in order to preserve, secure and accumulate their PRIVATE wealth -- has been engaged in over 10 military expeditions of invasion and conquest since the 9/11 attack. Iran, on the other hand, last invaded another country in the early 18th century. Sanctions against Iran are intended to deprive Hezbollah and Hamas of Iranian support.

But so long as the American people are fearful, you have little resistance to the implementation of ?preemptive? military action aimed at territorial conquest and capital accumulation.

The hysteria here reveals a pliable, docile, gullible and ?ready to support the next conquest? type of mentality. Exactly what the elites want, and at your expense, by the way.
The United States uses ISIS, in the same way it has used other extremist organizations, as an instrument to justify war. It foments war by backing radical extremism, such as when it illegally sold arms to Iran in order to gain funding to support the Contras in Nicaragua.

This is nothing new and should come as no surprise to anyone. The notion that the United States isn?t up to its chin in fomenting the current extremism is na?ve.

The cost to the US taxpayer since this ?War on Terror? began is 6.6 trillion dollars and many thousands of young American lives. The rulers of the military-industrial-complex who have received a windfall in the billions of dollars as a direct result of this War on Terror, are its beneficiaries. (Senator Feinstein?s husband, Richard Blum, comes to mind.) Ironically, even the posters on this thread who are well paid in salary and bonuses, still have no shot of ever getting on the same economic plane as those whose hands are at the ship?s tiller and are setting the course towards dystopia and misery. (Pretty sure we are already there.)

Newsflash people: when America goes to war, national security and justice are never the primary considerations. Rather, the overarching consideration is always how best to take some money, and turn into more money for the holders of private capital.


As a side note, the only reason we oppose Iran is because Saudia Arabia wants us to do so.


Correct. Also, despite score09 and I having very different political leans, (s)he is absolutely right that the US has done a ton of things to create current Islamic extremism, from support of Saudi Arabia, to support of Islamist groups in Afghanistan (and other places) against the Soviets, to support of orgs such as the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, and so on. I also don't even necessarily disagree that US involvement in many of these conflicts relates to varying degrees of corruption in our government. Libya is a great example of this, as is the original Iraq conflict. Basically, we have made some really idiotic alliances in the middle east which is why we find ourselves supporting some real a-holes in Syria right now who would be significantly worse than Assad if they won (just like Libya is worse off now than it was before US "assistance").

Posted on: 2015/11/24 22:29
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:

As a side note, the only reason we oppose Iran is because Saudia Arabia wants us to do so.


Okay, I'll bite. I guess American thirst for oil and the Israel lobby have no role, right? Exclusively because of KSA?

Posted on: 2015/11/24 22:26
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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HPYC wrote:
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I find the whole conversation Trump started pretty disgusting.


Trump knew exactly what he was doing. He knew his comments would polarize America. And he knew that a lot of people supported his stated views on Muslims. Trump is simply representing those views.

It's much better to have the conversation, than not have it.

Posted on: 2015/11/24 22:21
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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score09 wrote:
Wow, seeing some hysterical and xenophobic posts. It?s like the capitalism fascists are coming out of the woodwork here, so much hysteria, lol. Ironically, it?s just where it -- the dominant elite ? wants you, lol. The fear of ISIS, the fear of Al Queda, the fear of Iran. The United States -- or more accurately the dominant Western elites who invade, oppress and manipulate in order to preserve, secure and accumulate their PRIVATE wealth -- has been engaged in over 10 military expeditions of invasion and conquest since the 9/11 attack. Iran, on the other hand, last invaded another country in the early 18th century. Sanctions against Iran are intended to deprive Hezbollah and Hamas of Iranian support.

But so long as the American people are fearful, you have little resistance to the implementation of ?preemptive? military action aimed at territorial conquest and capital accumulation.

The hysteria here reveals a pliable, docile, gullible and ?ready to support the next conquest? type of mentality. Exactly what the elites want, and at your expense, by the way.
The United States uses ISIS, in the same way it has used other extremist organizations, as an instrument to justify war. It foments war by backing radical extremism, such as when it illegally sold arms to Iran in order to gain funding to support the Contras in Nicaragua.

This is nothing new and should come as no surprise to anyone. The notion that the United States isn?t up to its chin in fomenting the current extremism is na?ve.

The cost to the US taxpayer since this ?War on Terror? began is 6.6 trillion dollars and many thousands of young American lives. The rulers of the military-industrial-complex who have received a windfall in the billions of dollars as a direct result of this War on Terror, are its beneficiaries. (Senator Feinstein?s husband, Richard Blum, comes to mind.) Ironically, even the posters on this thread who are well paid in salary and bonuses, still have no shot of ever getting on the same economic plane as those whose hands are at the ship?s tiller and are setting the course towards dystopia and misery. (Pretty sure we are already there.)

Newsflash people: when America goes to war, national security and justice are never the primary considerations. Rather, the overarching consideration is always how best to take some money, and turn into more money for the holders of private capital.


As a side note, the only reason we oppose Iran is because Saudia Arabia wants us to do so.

Posted on: 2015/11/24 22:21
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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Probably like a lot of other people on this board, I was standing on the waterfront in JC (right next to Starbucks) when the WTC collapsed. I can tell you that nobody was cheering, Muslim or otherwise. In fact, nobody had a single word to say when those buildings came down. I find the whole conversation Trump started pretty disgusting.


10/10

Posted on: 2015/11/24 22:16
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papadage wrote:
Shot rolls downhill. I've met plenty of non-white bigots that enjoy taking part in bigotry against other ethnicities and groups.


But surely you agree that describing a Hispanic guy that hates BLM types as a "white supremacist" isn't exactly accurate. Or maybe he is and that explains why you think white supremacists make up a huge swath of this country and perhaps why you seem to think I'm a WS as well.


The same way that Italians and Irish became white after begin targets of bigotry themselves. "White" is a social construct, nit genetic. If white bigots accept them in their ranks, they are white for the purposes of shitting on other people.

And I did not say that white supremacists made up huge swaths of America. I was talking about this specific incident, with these specific assholes you support.


Yeah, not sure I accept that this is the work of white supremacists, just guys that hate BLM protesters. I can't stand the BLMers and I'm not a WS.

Posted on: 2015/11/24 22:10
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Wow, seeing some hysterical and xenophobic posts. It?s like the capitalism fascists are coming out of the woodwork here, so much hysteria, lol. Ironically, it?s just where it -- the dominant elite ? wants you, lol. The fear of ISIS, the fear of Al Queda, the fear of Iran. The United States -- or more accurately the dominant Western elites who invade, oppress and manipulate in order to preserve, secure and accumulate their PRIVATE wealth -- has been engaged in over 10 military expeditions of invasion and conquest since the 9/11 attack. Iran, on the other hand, last invaded another country in the early 18th century. Sanctions against Iran are intended to deprive Hezbollah and Hamas of Iranian support.

But so long as the American people are fearful, you have little resistance to the implementation of ?preemptive? military action aimed at territorial conquest and capital accumulation.

The hysteria here reveals a pliable, docile, gullible and ?ready to support the next conquest? type of mentality. Exactly what the elites want, and at your expense, by the way.
The United States uses ISIS, in the same way it has used other extremist organizations, as an instrument to justify war. It foments war by backing radical extremism, such as when it illegally sold arms to Iran in order to gain funding to support the Contras in Nicaragua.

This is nothing new and should come as no surprise to anyone. The notion that the United States isn?t up to its chin in fomenting the current extremism is na?ve.

The cost to the US taxpayer since this ?War on Terror? began is 6.6 trillion dollars and many thousands of young American lives. The rulers of the military-industrial-complex who have received a windfall in the billions of dollars as a direct result of this War on Terror, are its beneficiaries. (Senator Feinstein?s husband, Richard Blum, comes to mind.) Ironically, even the posters on this thread who are well paid in salary and bonuses, still have no shot of ever getting on the same economic plane as those whose hands are at the ship?s tiller and are setting the course towards dystopia and misery. (Pretty sure we are already there.)

Newsflash people: when America goes to war, national security and justice are never the primary considerations. Rather, the overarching consideration is always how best to take some money, and turn into more money for the holders of private capital.

Posted on: 2015/11/24 21:58
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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Probably like a lot of other people on this board, I was standing on the waterfront in JC (right next to Starbucks) when the WTC collapsed. I can tell you that nobody was cheering, Muslim or otherwise. In fact, nobody had a single word to say when those buildings came down. I find the whole conversation Trump started pretty disgusting.

Posted on: 2015/11/24 21:53
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papadage wrote:
Shot rolls downhill. I've met plenty of non-white bigots that enjoy taking part in bigotry against other ethnicities and groups.


But surely you agree that describing a Hispanic guy that hates BLM types as a "white supremacist" isn't exactly accurate. Or maybe he is and that explains why you think white supremacists make up a huge swath of this country and perhaps why you seem to think I'm a WS as well.


The same way that Italians and Irish became white after begin targets of bigotry themselves. "White" is a social construct, nit genetic. If white bigots accept them in their ranks, they are white for the purposes of shitting on other people.

And I did not say that white supremacists made up huge swaths of America. I was talking about this specific incident, with these specific assholes you support.

Posted on: 2015/11/24 21:51
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Mother of Muslim American 9/11 first responder rebukes Donald Trump: ?Maybe it is time for him to go back to Germany and advocate his pro-Nazi policies over there?

http://www.salon.com/2015/11/24/mothe ... ter&utm_medium=socialflow

Posted on: 2015/11/24 21:35
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papadage wrote:
Shot rolls downhill. I've met plenty of non-white bigots that enjoy taking part in bigotry against other ethnicities and groups.


But surely you agree that describing a Hispanic guy that hates BLM types as a "white supremacist" isn't exactly accurate. Or maybe he is and that explains why you think white supremacists make up a huge swath of this country and perhaps why you seem to think I'm a WS as well.

Posted on: 2015/11/24 21:27
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Shot rolls downhill. I've met plenty of non-white bigots that enjoy taking part in bigotry against other ethnicities and groups.

Posted on: 2015/11/24 21:23
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Monroe wrote:
'Natzi'? I think in the last week we've seen more 'racist', 'bigot', 'Nazi' attributions than in the last year. Hyperbole doesn't work when it's not true folks.


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devilsadvocate wrote:
Also, it really removes any power those terms have. When you declare that anyone who likes Donald Trump (or any other Republican) to be a racist Nazi, then people just shrug..."


Instead of calling him names, I prefer to say that Mr. Trump appears to have several traits that I understand are often associated with narcissistic personality disorder. Such behavior can apparently be a great asset in business and profiteering, but in government it?s not found among world leaders who champion a democratic and free way of life. Instead, it?s been found among very different leaders who are remembered in the poorest of light. Calling him names misses the point that he may simply be unfit for service because of the incompatible and potentially dangerous psychological traits he might bring with him into the executive office.

I don?t care what he claims to have seen in Jersey City. The more relevant point is that almost everything he says should serve as a public warning about his nature. Never mind the content, the context alone is disturbing.

Posted on: 2015/11/24 21:23
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I did not call you white..

I called you a shill for violent white supremacists.


Why would a non-white guy (or even an urban professional white guy) shill for a bunch of anti-intellectual rednecks who hate all of us? By the way, did you catch my edit? They arrested two guys in that shooting, one of them Hispanic. Clearly the work of the KKK.

Posted on: 2015/11/24 21:20
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I did not call you white..

I called you a shill for violent white supremacists.

Posted on: 2015/11/24 21:18
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I meant you...


LOL, I like how you assume I'm even white.

Posted on: 2015/11/24 21:17
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I meant you...

Posted on: 2015/11/24 21:16
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No, not clueless, just sympathetic to violent white supremacists. Basically a shill for the Klan and murderous bigots.


I don't think anyone is clueless, nor do I think they're particularly sympathetic to violent white supremacists (especially since plenty of people in our society that are nevertheless Republican, myself included, would actually be despised by your typical white supremacist). But neither are many sympathetic to your typical BLM trash either, who are right up there with the violent white supremacists. Or have you forgotten the race rioting in Baltimore and Ferguson?

EDIT: Oh, and they have made some arrests of these so-called "white supremacists" - apparently a Hispanic guy and a white guy. Clearly a local KKK chapter.


Posted on: 2015/11/24 21:14
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The GOP Establishment Is Trying To Elect Donald Trump?:

http://www.redstate.com/2015/11/24/go ... rying-elect-donald-trump/

Posted on: 2015/11/24 21:11
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No, not clueless, just sympathetic to violent white supremacists. Basically a shill for the Klan and murderous bigots.

Posted on: 2015/11/24 21:06
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
'Natzi'? I think in the last week we've seen more 'racist', 'bigot', 'Nazi' attributions than in the last year. Hyperbole doesn't work when it's not true folks.


Also, it really removes any power those terms have. When you declare that anyone who likes Donald Trump (or any other Republican) to be a racist Nazi, then people just shrug and say "ok, whatever, who cares?" Just like the BLM crowd is acting in such an obnoxious fashion that most people have turned against both them and their message, which actually is counterproductive. That became obvious when they started to attack people having brunch in various large cities because they were white and had money. Also same with the liberal "all males are rapists and they should get a notarized consent form prior to engaging any sexual act - and they should add a new signature for each new act performed..." And you know where rapists really flock to? That's right, college campuses.

Anyway, I guess what I'm really getting at is that this nonsense is par for course among liberals.

Kinda ironic that you talk about the BLM crowd after a bunch of them got shot by actual neo-Nazi white supremacists the other day, isn't it?

Or are you really that tone deaf?


Yeah, piss off a huge portion of the population in a public place long enough and something bad will happen. Notice the absolutely minimal public outcry from them getting shot up. Ponder on what that means. I can't bring myself to feel sad for them either.

Posted on: 2015/11/24 21:03
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
'Natzi'? I think in the last week we've seen more 'racist', 'bigot', 'Nazi' attributions than in the last year. Hyperbole doesn't work when it's not true folks.


Also, it really removes any power those terms have. When you declare that anyone who likes Donald Trump (or any other Republican) to be a racist Nazi, then people just shrug and say "ok, whatever, who cares?" Just like the BLM crowd is acting in such an obnoxious fashion that most people have turned against both them and their message, which actually is counterproductive. That became obvious when they started to attack people having brunch in various large cities because they were white and had money. Also same with the liberal "all males are rapists and they should get a notarized consent form prior to engaging any sexual act - and they should add a new signature for each new act performed..." And you know where rapists really flock to? That's right, college campuses.

Anyway, I guess what I'm really getting at is that this nonsense is par for course among liberals.

Kinda ironic that you talk about the BLM crowd after a bunch of them got shot by actual neo-Nazi white supremacists the other day, isn't it?

Or are you really that tone deaf?

Posted on: 2015/11/24 20:54
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Monroe wrote:
'Natzi'? I think in the last week we've seen more 'racist', 'bigot', 'Nazi' attributions than in the last year. Hyperbole doesn't work when it's not true folks.


Also, it really removes any power those terms have. When you declare that anyone who likes Donald Trump (or any other Republican) to be a racist Nazi, then people just shrug and say "ok, whatever, who cares?" Just like the BLM crowd is acting in such an obnoxious fashion that most people have turned against both them and their message, which actually is counterproductive. That became obvious when they started to attack people having brunch in various large cities because they were white and had money. Also same with the liberal "all males are rapists and they should get a notarized consent form prior to engaging any sexual act - and they should add a new signature for each new act performed..." And you know where rapists really flock to? That's right, college campuses.

Anyway, I guess what I'm really getting at is that this nonsense is par for course among liberals.

Posted on: 2015/11/24 20:46
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'Natzi'? I think in the last week we've seen more 'racist', 'bigot', 'Nazi' attributions than in the last year. Hyperbole doesn't work when it's not true folks.

Posted on: 2015/11/24 19:40
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Trump?s Jersey City insult shines spotlight on mayor:

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article ... lt-shines-spotlight-mayor

Posted on: 2015/11/24 19:19
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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MDM wrote:
The link below details I witness accounts. Reading the article and some of the comments (of others who claim to have also witnessed) match exactly what my co-worker described.

She was part time only and was off work on 9/11. We were both back at work at 9/12, which is when she relayed what she saw to me.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/11/2 ... -saw-277082#ixzz3sLaXMvcE


note: I witnessed nothing like the above article in Jersey City. However, I did witness the that evening and the next day a bunch of Muslim women screaming out their windows around JSQ. They weren't speaking English, so I didn't know what it was all about.

However, later the news reported that a number of men in the area had been arrested or detained by the FBI right after the attacks. The screaming women were the wives, daughters, and sisters who just had seen their men taken away in handcuffs.

Conservative blowhard writes article claiming to have seen things thus it must be fact!

The reality is that there are people who cheered when the Red Sox won the World Series. Given our vast political and religious landscape, I'm sure there were some people that felt the USA needed to be taken down a peg and were happy about seeing it. None of that actually translates to "thousands in the streets of Jersey City" and given the accounts of those here listening to police scanners and the links to the articles about the Israelis on the roof... Yeah, it is still bullshit. This guy's claim is completely fabricated.

(PS: the term is eye witness: an honest mistype that I'm just using for clarity in the future.)


Wait, did you seriously just compare cheering for the Red Sox, an f-ing baseball team, to cheering the murder of thousands of Americans by a terrorist org that would happily roast every non-Muslim in America?


I think you have Al Qaeda confused with ISIS


LOL, while I didn't "confuse them" you're kidding yourself if you think they're all that different. If you look at Al-Nusra or the Islamic courts in Somalia you'll see what I mean. Both sell a radical, hardline version of Sunni Islam that seeks to crush anyone that doesn't subscribe to their belief system.


There is a clear difference between AQ and ISIS and I will explain more later.

Anyways, if you are such a strong opponent of Sunni Islam (and I understand why), then what do you think about the US' long standing alliance with a Sunni Islam theocracy in Saudi Arabia? We support them financially and militarily and these funds and weapons make it into the hands of Sunni Islamic fighters.


I understand that there's a clear difference between AQ and ISIS, and that they commonly battle one another, but these are largely political in nature (in other words, it is a question of who they are pledging allegiance to, rather than what they believe or stand for).

As you can probably guess, I'm not a large fan of the US's close relationship to the KSA.

Also, it is probably an overstatement to say that I am a "strong opponent of Sunni Islam" just because I don't like AQ or ISIS, or because I'm not a fan of taking a bunch of Islamic refugees into my country. I won't say I'm remotely a fan of Islam, but your language might be interpreted to mean I want people killed because they're Sunni Muslims or something crazy like that, which isn't true.

Posted on: 2015/11/24 18:46
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