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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
 
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something is getting muddled here - "restaurant row" on Newark and Grove Streets has no "proximity" restrictions/limitations. bars with the required food service/kitchens are permitted elbow to elbow in this area.
in other areas of the city, I believe the distance requirement is 300' min.
Posted on: 2011/3/4 3:58
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Personally, I like seeing small bars/restaurants interspersed throughout the neighborhood. I think they add flavor to a place that would otherwise be a little boring. Not to say that it has to be every single corner, like the exaggerators here would like to say, but here and there, interspersed like trees in a field. After all, who here really has any problem with places like Lucky 7s, White Star, Hamilton Inn or the dive bars on places like Coles & 6th, 1st and Erie, etc.
As far as Barrow St goes, I remember going to that place with my dad 25 some-odd years ago when we lived over on Wayne (still a crime hotspot back then). It was a decent little place to go every now and then, so I'm kinda sad to see it go even though I haven't been in there in at least a decade. Good luck in a better location.
Posted on: 2011/3/4 4:48
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Do you, or have you ever lived within 100 feet of a bar?
Posted on: 2011/3/4 14:05
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Agreed. Otherwise how do explain Skinner's Loft being able to open a resto-bar less than 50 feet from LITM.
Posted on: 2011/3/4 14:23
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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That's exactly the point. A restaurant is not a bar. A bar is not a restaurant. A restaurant with a liquor license would probably have done very in the Barrow Street location without disturbing the neighbors nearly as often. The Barrow Street bar, if it had been on Newark Avenue, would have disturbed many fewer people simply because there are many fewer people living on Newark Avenue. And yet here is the disconnect in the zoning and licensing. The city is preventing bars from opening in commercial districts by imposing restaurant requirements on them.
Posted on: 2011/3/4 14:54
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Skinners, LITM, and Sawadee Thai all have liquor licenses. But they are also restaurants. Initially, restaurant row restricted alcohol sales after 11, but was later changed to 2am (3am on Friday and Saturday) to fall in line with other bars. However, they are all required to serve food, and I believe a certain percentage of sales must also be food. But that's just the thing. Sawadee is a restaurant-- not the sort of place anyone is going to show up to for a few cocktails. Even Skinners Loft is very clearly predominantly a restaurant, and the small bar area on the ground floor is just that-- small. What do none of these three restaurants have? A pool table. A jukebox. Live music. A dance floor. And with the exception LITM, they don't have people under the age of 30. And yet, the whole south of Newark avenue is either office space or vacant; its not a residential neighborhood like the corner of Barrow and Mercer. If there was any place in the city to have loud music, late night drinking, and young people, it would be Newark Avenue where there are few residences. If Skinner's Loft were in the Barrow Street bar location, would there have been any complaints from the residents? Last time I checked, pudgy middled age white men only get rowdy cheering for their twelve year old's soccer team. But Barrow Street Bar couldn't have opened on Newark Avenue in any form resembling what it was because it wouldn't have met the restaurant requirements imposed by restaurant row legislation.
Posted on: 2011/3/4 15:15
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Quote:
I think the sentiment is that, the building that housed Barrow Street Bar was ALWAYS a bar. So if somebody is particularly averse to living near a bar, there are many thousands of other houses in downtown JC that are NOT within 100-200 feet of that bar. It'd be one thing if one day, a bar magically appeared in the neighborhood, shocking people and disturbing them. Like Corybraiterman, I think bars sprinkled throughout urban neighborhoods add charm. It's not as if every corner in JC has a bar - it is not even CLOSE to that. I don't understand the grouchiness on this site - do you really think East Village residents complain about bars nestled in their neighborhood?
Posted on: 2011/3/4 15:48
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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I strongly agree with Ianmac. The restaurant row ordinance for Newark Ave/Grove Street is really hindering development there. I guess I just don't understand what the fundamental problem is with a few more bars on Newark Avenue. I honestly can't think of any city of 250,000 people that does NOT have a district where there is a main drag of bars and restaurants.
Now, my opinion is coming from somebody who DOES enjoy going to a bar on Fridays or Saturdays. I understand that there are many people who DON'T do this. But to my eye, it seems that the demographic of Downtown JC is skewing towards younger, not older.
Posted on: 2011/3/4 15:56
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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I always considered LITM more of a bar with food than a restaurant. Not many restaurants have DJs playing hip-hop, it's kind of a gray area.
Posted on: 2011/3/4 16:28
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Quite a regular
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can someone describe to me the exact ordinances in place for Newark Ave/Grove St ?
Posted on: 2011/3/4 16:46
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Actually, they do. As do people in the west village as well. It is a constant battle between night life promoters of all kinds vs community boards. It so happens that the community board in the christopher st. area is one of the strongest in all of the city and is constantly biting back at the bars/restaurants/clubs in the 'hood. JC lister BrightMoment can probably tell you more about it than I can, I recall him saying he worked with them a few times on some issues.
Posted on: 2011/3/4 17:43
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Wow. So having bars like Indio's and the Latin Lounge in my neighborhood is charming. Somehow that never occurred to me before.
Posted on: 2011/3/4 19:50
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Yes, I have in fact. Where Chris closed Barrow St Bar used to be JC Winston's. I lived directly across the street from the side opposite their garden on corner, 290 Baarrow. Even when Richard Price hung out with biker cops while he wrote "Clockers" after hours and it was noisy, it was fine. I lived next door to Acme on Great Jones St in NYC as well with no problem. I think urbanites of NYC are used to bars in residential neighborhoods is the difference. Caveat Emptor. 
Posted on: 2011/3/5 6:58
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Because it's true. Did you think you were moving to Mayberry? Oh wait, you would have hated Otis. It pisses me off that Benny's, the only bar in my neighborhood, closed down.
Posted on: 2011/3/5 8:58
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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In Hoboken there are hundreds of fines being handed out and tons of people being arrested and just as many being treated in hospitals today because drunk people are so cooperative, quiet and reasonable.
Posted on: 2011/3/6 4:56
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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2010/10/5 14:23 Last Login : 2011/12/23 15:50 From jazzy city
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were those bars there already when you moved to that neighborhood or were you there first?
Posted on: 2011/3/9 16:39
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Quote:
"Of course they were there but I'm entitled to move in next door and complain after the fact because I live there NOW."
Posted on: 2011/3/9 16:49
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Relax Spidey, I don't complain about the bars in my hood, I was just sayin those are two I would never call charming.
Posted on: 2011/3/9 20:35
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Construction has started at Barrow Street Bar. Word is that it will indeed be a bar. I hope they don't demolish the old woodwork and decor in the bar area!
Posted on: 2011/3/29 14:28
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Not sure if they are, but I saw a bunch of cabinets and some wall stuff being trashed. I think they might be moving the kitchen from the middle of the bar.
Posted on: 2011/3/29 14:30
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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YES! Another bar!
More bars, more places.
Posted on: 2011/3/29 15:19
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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Great.. I look forward to it. I always thought it was stupid to have the kitchen in the middle of the bar.
Posted on: 2011/3/29 15:53
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Not too shy to talk
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Well said ianmac47! I can?t believe that this is happening again. It?s been so nice and quiet on that corner, the nicest three months since I remember. Does anyone know how to legally stop those people from opening another loud bar before it?s too late? What about contacting our councilman or hiring a lawyer? Does anyone know who owns that property? It?s a great street without a bar. The desperate ex-bar owner mentioned that he was pulling his license. I noticed that the Barrow Bar was padlocked. Maybe there is a way to file a complaint and stop the property owner from renting the space to another bar owner. 90% of the residents I spoke to are happy that Barrow Bar was gone. By the way, that place was out of control. Disrespectful people were not only drunk and loud but they were pissing all over the neighborhood. It?s a residential area. There is no place for another rowdy bar! Why don?t you open a nice small restaurant, bookstore, sandwich place or something quiet for pit?s sake? This place has a potential and does not have to sell alcohol to already drunk people!
Posted on: 2011/3/30 17:49
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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So is there actually a close at 2am, raise hell and get drunk bar going there or a restaurant that closes at 10pm that just happens to serve booze going there? I am confused. Does anyone know exactly what is intent on going there presently?
Posted on: 2011/3/30 18:00
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I'm not perfect.....but I'm not all bad either.
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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I'm confused by people who complain about that bar. First of all, yes it is a residential area, but in a city, bars/restaurants often exist in close proximity to housing. Secondly - A BAR ALWAYS EXISTED ON THAT CORNER. How long was JC Winston's there for? Does anybody know for how long that spot has been a bar? If you move in to the neighborhood when that spot is already a bar, you have to be absolutely out of your mind to complain about it. Did you think it was a bar that serves rosehip tea and crumpets?
I live one block away from the bar. One block. And I am NEVER disturbed by the noise. I honestly really don't hear any noise. Sometimes I'll hear a few people walking past my house (seemingly drunk), but they can also be coming from any other bar, or from the PATH station. I find the following noises much, much more disturbing to my evenings and early mornings: ambulance sirens, fire truck sirens, police sirens, crossing guard whistling, dogs howling in the VVP dog run, and the zapping noises that the Parking Authority scooters make at 8 am. But you know what? I shrug it off as part of city life, which is what anybody complaining about bar noise should probably also do. My guess is that the only people that are really disturbed by the noises coming from Barrow Street Bar are the people that live within a 3 or 4 house radius of the bar. And to be honest, a ton of people I've spoken to in the neighborhood hope that the spot becomes a bar again.
Posted on: 2011/3/30 18:28
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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I am not against bars (I spent plenty of time in them back in the glory days of JC) but for those interested ?.. Like the OP said look in the JJ for the legal notices about the property. I am one of the fools who actually read those tiny notices in the classified section. I haven?t seen one for that address yet. It will say something like ?MOJO BAR is requesting a license renewal at 130 West Side Ave if you want to protest it send a letter to so and so within two weeks?. I think there was one in the JJ this week or last. Not for that property but I will post the address etc. PS ? you guys should read those HC and JC legal notices. The best ones are the back dated ones from HC that say a no bid contract for $500K was awarded to so and so for the period of May , 2009 to Dec 2009 Hmmmmmm!
Posted on: 2011/3/30 18:53
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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I've lived in JC since 1987 and JC Winston's was there before that time.
Posted on: 2011/3/30 19:10
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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hate the bros not the bars
Posted on: 2011/3/30 19:45
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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Home away from home
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If you build your house between the runways at Newark Airport, you cannot credibly complain about airplane noise. So I understand when people say "there always was a bar there."
Still, even bars have to be good neighbors, especially when they are grandfathered into residential neighborhoods. I have never had a problem with Barrow Street Bar or any of its previous incarnations (except while drug dealing was going on at JC Winston's), but then again, I don't live right on the block.
Posted on: 2011/3/30 20:15
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Re: No Bar @ Barrow & Mercer
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One bar vs. several residences? The bar owner should make an extra effort to keep his patrons quiet and behaved. If they cannot or won't they should be punished.
Posted on: 2011/3/30 21:01
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