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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Officials break ground on Jersey City science, tech campus

Construction is starting on a $300 million, 12.5 acre science and innovation campus called SciTech Scity immediately adjacent to the Liberty Science Center in Jersey City that is meant to attract start-ups to New Jersey’s second-largest city.

This first phase is slated to open by early 2024 and is part of a larger 30-acre “City of Tomorrow” campus across the Hudson River from Manhattan which will include the Liberty Science Center, according to a statement released earlier this month.

https://njbiz.com/officials-break-grou ... city-science-tech-campus/


Posted on: 2021/10/23 0:45
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JERSEY CITY AND LIBERTY SCIENCE CENTER BREAKS GROUND ON SCITECH SCITY
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Mayor Steven M. Fulop joins Governor Phil Murphy, Hudson County Executive Tom DeGise, and Liberty Science Center President and CEO Paul Hoffman to break ground on the 30-acre “City of Tomorrow” innovation campus called SciTech Scity, which will launch and grow world-changing science and technology companies and reimagine public school STEM education. SciTech Scity will bring together scientists, community leaders, teachers, students, innovators, and entrepreneurs in a one-of-a-kind setting that will become a sought-after destination for inspiration and innovation.
http://riverviewobserver.net/2021/10/ ... -scity-today-oct-22-2021/

Posted on: 2021/10/22 15:34
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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The last rendering in this article looks like it is from the earlier version/vision published a couple of years ago.

Posted on: 2019/12/21 15:04
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Wow thats a real downgrade from the original rendering which i knew looked WAY too cool to ever be built in JC.

https://jerseydigs.com/liberty-science ... ech-scity-in-jersey-city/

Posted on: 2019/12/20 20:32
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Posted on: 2019/12/19 22:55
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Re: SCITECH City
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Quote:

justJC wrote:
Ready, set, discuss!

Why did these docs have to be OPRA'ed?

Did the Council members read them?

What's a science specialty hotel?

And there's this: Bleeding edge technology is a category of technologies so new that they could have a high risk of being unreliable and lead adopters to incur greater expense in order to make use of them. So has City leadership adequately protected JC with this land hand-off?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-wndxx3kEacX2t3NnUwN2xQR3M/view

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-wndxx3kEacLXUzd2tyZ0hGVXc/view

1] "Why did these docs have to be OPRA'ed?"
because they were withheld, not made available to the public for the asking from the city clerk's office, or distributed by any method in advance of council meeting 2nd reading/vote.

2] "Did the Council members read them?"
councilpersons that i have spoken with stated that they were not currently provided these [in 2017] & cannot recall seeing them before -- in 2016 or 2015.
be reminded that several councilpersons were not sitting back in 2015, which is the year that these documents were penned.

3] "What's a science specialty hotel?"
anyone's guess. i have not been able to verify any concrete meaning from hospitality experts or accredited dictionary.

4] " So has City leadership adequately protected JC with this land hand-off?"
no. this bum rushed transfer of 16 acres of UN-appraised real property [12 Jersey City proper + 4 MUA] Literally takes away any control over this project from the city council [elected by the people] & places Total Control in the hands of JCRA [a board Appointed by & serving at the Mayor's discretion]

Posted on: 2017/3/29 23:18
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Mao wrote:
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/1/#inbox/15b16bbeb4dfba06

Above is the link to the Memorandum of Understanding. Esther Winter went through the trouble (FOIA request) and expense (over $200) to get a copy of it. Guess what? She got it after the vote. So much for transparency.

Although personally, a fan of Charter Schools, why did the Council act coy, to say it as politely as possible, and say it was undetermined whether the school was to be a Charter or a regular public shool?

Also, the hotel is described in terms that suggest it will also assert non profit status (provide lodging for science visitors etc). Corp. Counsel Jeremy said that it would be for profit.

So this new entity will have one member and owner, namely the Science Center. An LLC with only one member is treated as an entity disregarded as separate from its owner for income tax purposes (but as a separate entity for purposes of employment tax and certain excise taxes), unless it files Form 8832 and affirmatively elects to be treated as a corporation.

this link takes me to my own g-mail account. can you please check it on your end & correct if necessary ? thanks

Posted on: 2017/3/29 22:53
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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caj11 wrote:
Quote:

light12v wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Several months ago, when the city council created the redevelopment plan I spoke against this. Councilman Boggiano said the city told him this land was worthless at that meeting. His comments were picked up by Al Sullivan for the Jersey City Reporter. I don't remember the issue but I am sure you can still find it.

CITY COUNCIL DID NOT CREATE LIBERTY HARBOR REDEVELOPMENT PLAN A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO.
THEY MERELY AMENDED IT FROM IT'S 1973 CREATION TO PAVE THE WAY FOR FULOP'S VISION OF SCITECH CITY 2015,, AFTER DOING NOTHING FOR 2 YEARS ,, AND PUSHED IT THROUGH ON 01/25/17...WITHOUT DUE PROCESS SUPPORTED WITH ONLY SLOPPY PLANNING DIVISION WORK/MAPS & RENDERINGS.... IN A BUMS RUSH TO MEET FULOP'S ELECTION YEAR TIMELINE REQUIREMENTS.


As relevant as your comments are, I suggest that you TURN OFF THE CAPS LOCK ON YOUR KEYBOARD! It's annoying.

my bad. sorry, no yelling intended. [will do ee cummings lower case in the future, as i was never trained as a typist]

Posted on: 2017/3/29 22:40
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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As I've said, it's a jello plan. Yeah, it'll be a regular school. Oops, it'll be a charter school. No biggie. This'll be a third of a billion dollar boondoggle, and it's got Fulop's fingerprints over every inch of it. Just who is accountable for this? Bend over, taxpayers. And the sad part is that, if done right, this could be a great thing.

Posted on: 2017/3/29 22:08
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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These are proposals that have developed over two years. In the most recent discussions certain councilmembers, the teachers union, and others said that they want the school to be a district school. That has been incorporated into the current plans.

I personally am skeptical of charter schools. Having said that, I do not think it is wise for the plan to commit the project to the district or a charter one way or another at this time. The school should go to whoever can appropriately manage it. The city previously tried to include pre-K space in the Gloria Robinson Homes and the Board said that the finances did not work and that the space was not where the board needed (wanted?) Pre-K space. So the project was built anyway and a Head Start program is using the Pre-K space.

So if the district is unwilling to commit to the project, or unable to deal with it financially or otherwise, I would not rule out a charter or some other arrangement.


(Edit - I am not saying I don't believe the current board is able to do so. I am pretty confident in the current trustees and superintendent's office as long as they work together).

Posted on: 2017/3/29 19:23
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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terrencemcd wrote:
Quote:

K-Lo2 wrote:
Yvonne, can you be more specific about what type of public school? Magnets and charters are public schools.


The city told me it would be a traditional public school.

Council President Lavarro said the JCRA would possible vote to amend the redeveloper agreement with SciTeh Scity tonight (6 pm, 30 Montgomery) to make that specific in the agreement.


Well, apparently, someone lied. The introduction/proposal clearly says "It is anticipated that grades K-8 will be established as a charter school." in the last paragraph of page 5, continuing onto page 6.

Honestly, I was neither in favor, nor against this project. I thought some of the histrionics were unnecessarily over the top, but these documents may prove the opponents right. How sad that JC has not changed much at all since the Healy days... transparency and openness seem anathema to every city administration.

Posted on: 2017/3/29 17:11
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Re: SCITECH City
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Good questions!

Posted on: 2017/3/29 16:55
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Also, it seems like Dave Barry will profit massively from this.

Posted on: 2017/3/29 16:55
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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https://mail.google.com/mail/u/1/#inbox/15b16bbeb4dfba06

Above is the link to the Memorandum of Understanding. Esther Winter went through the trouble (FOIA request) and expense (over $200) to get a copy of it. Guess what? She got it after the vote. So much for transparency.

Although personally, a fan of Charter Schools, why did the Council act coy, to say it as politely as possible, and say it was undetermined whether the school was to be a Charter or a regular public shool?

Also, the hotel is described in terms that suggest it will also assert non profit status (provide lodging for science visitors etc). Corp. Counsel Jeremy said that it would be for profit.

So this new entity will have one member and owner, namely the Science Center. An LLC with only one member is treated as an entity disregarded as separate from its owner for income tax purposes (but as a separate entity for purposes of employment tax and certain excise taxes), unless it files Form 8832 and affirmatively elects to be treated as a corporation.

Posted on: 2017/3/29 16:54
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Ready, set, discuss!

Why did these docs have to be OPRA'ed?

Did the Council members read them?

What's a science specialty hotel?

And there's this: Bleeding edge technology is a category of technologies so new that they could have a high risk of being unreliable and lead adopters to incur greater expense in order to make use of them. So has City leadership adequately protected JC with this land hand-off?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-wndxx3kEacX2t3NnUwN2xQR3M/view

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-wndxx3kEacLXUzd2tyZ0hGVXc/view

Posted on: 2017/3/29 16:52
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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light12v wrote:
CITY COUNCIL DID NOT CREATE LIBERTY HARBOR REDEVELOPMENT PLAN A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO.
THEY MERELY AMENDED IT FROM IT'S 1973 CREATION TO PAVE THE WAY FOR FULOP'S VISION OF SCITECH CITY 2015,, AFTER DOING NOTHING FOR 2 YEARS ,, AND PUSHED IT THROUGH ON 01/25/17...WITHOUT DUE PROCESS SUPPORTED WITH ONLY SLOPPY PLANNING DIVISION WORK/MAPS & RENDERINGS.... IN A BUMS RUSH TO MEET FULOP'S ELECTION YEAR TIMELINE REQUIREMENTS.

Please, stop "shouting" at us. Thanks


Posted on: 2017/3/29 14:55
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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light12v wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Several months ago, when the city council created the redevelopment plan I spoke against this. Councilman Boggiano said the city told him this land was worthless at that meeting. His comments were picked up by Al Sullivan for the Jersey City Reporter. I don't remember the issue but I am sure you can still find it.

CITY COUNCIL DID NOT CREATE LIBERTY HARBOR REDEVELOPMENT PLAN A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO.
THEY MERELY AMENDED IT FROM IT'S 1973 CREATION TO PAVE THE WAY FOR FULOP'S VISION OF SCITECH CITY 2015,, AFTER DOING NOTHING FOR 2 YEARS ,, AND PUSHED IT THROUGH ON 01/25/17...WITHOUT DUE PROCESS SUPPORTED WITH ONLY SLOPPY PLANNING DIVISION WORK/MAPS & RENDERINGS.... IN A BUMS RUSH TO MEET FULOP'S ELECTION YEAR TIMELINE REQUIREMENTS.


As relevant as your comments are, I suggest that you TURN OFF THE CAPS LOCK ON YOUR KEYBOARD! It's annoying.

Posted on: 2017/3/29 5:28
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

light12v wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Several months ago, when the city council created the redevelopment plan I spoke against this. Councilman Boggiano said the city told him this land was worthless at that meeting. His comments were picked up by Al Sullivan for the Jersey City Reporter. I don't remember the issue but I am sure you can still find it.

JUST FINISHED READING ORD#17-002 DOCS. AND YOU WERE THE ONLY SPEAKER AT THE 01/25/13 COUNCIL MEETING THAT I SEE ON THE DOCUMENTS


Yes, I was. Council-President Lavarro tried to cut me off by saying this not about transferring the land but I reminded him this is step one.

Posted on: 2017/3/28 23:09
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Yvonne wrote:
Several months ago, when the city council created the redevelopment plan I spoke against this. Councilman Boggiano said the city told him this land was worthless at that meeting. His comments were picked up by Al Sullivan for the Jersey City Reporter. I don't remember the issue but I am sure you can still find it.

CITY COUNCIL DID NOT CREATE LIBERTY HARBOR REDEVELOPMENT PLAN A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO.
THEY MERELY AMENDED IT FROM IT'S 1973 CREATION TO PAVE THE WAY FOR FULOP'S VISION OF SCITECH CITY 2015,, AFTER DOING NOTHING FOR 2 YEARS ,, AND PUSHED IT THROUGH ON 01/25/17...WITHOUT DUE PROCESS SUPPORTED WITH ONLY SLOPPY PLANNING DIVISION WORK/MAPS & RENDERINGS.... IN A BUMS RUSH TO MEET FULOP'S ELECTION YEAR TIMELINE REQUIREMENTS.

Posted on: 2017/3/28 23:07
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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light12v wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Several months ago, when the city council created the redevelopment plan I spoke against this. Councilman Boggiano said the city told him this land was worthless at that meeting. His comments were picked up by Al Sullivan for the Jersey City Reporter. I don't remember the issue but I am sure you can still find it.

JUST FINISHED READING ORD#17-003 DOCS. AND YOU WERE THE ONLY SPEAKER AT THE 01/25/13 COUNCIL MEETING THAT I SEE ON THE DOCUMENTS


Yes, I was. Council-President Lavarro tried to cut me off by saying this not about transferring the land but I reminded him this is step one.

Posted on: 2017/3/28 23:02
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Yvonne wrote:
Several months ago, when the city council created the redevelopment plan I spoke against this. Councilman Boggiano said the city told him this land was worthless at that meeting. His comments were picked up by Al Sullivan for the Jersey City Reporter. I don't remember the issue but I am sure you can still find it.

JUST FINISHED READING ORD#17-003 DOCS. AND YOU WERE THE ONLY SPEAKER AT THE 01/25/13 COUNCIL MEETING THAT I SEE ON THE DOCUMENTS

Posted on: 2017/3/28 22:42
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Several months ago, when the city council created the redevelopment plan I spoke against this. Councilman Boggiano said the city told him this land was worthless at that meeting. His comments were picked up by Al Sullivan for the Jersey City Reporter. I don't remember the issue but I am sure you can still find it.

Posted on: 2017/3/28 22:05
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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The head of the JCRA said it was worthless, till he had to walk it back . . . and is there a link, any link, from the city of JC where the specifics of the plan are available to view?

No, because it's jello. You can't hold Fulop to anything, when nothing is spelled out.

Posted on: 2017/3/28 21:28
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Monroe wrote:
Anyone saying this land is worthless is missing the fact that a plot half as large, across the street, sold for $35 million dollars TWO YEARS AGO.

No one is saying it's worthless.

Please, stop with the fallacious arguments.


Quote:
And dolomiti, do you think Fulop is going to make people from downtown drive Grand/Pacific/Johnston/Phillips to get there....

I think he wants to connect those roads. I haven't seen anything that says it's a lock. Until that happens, it's not going to affect property values.


Quote:
And yes, if the donors were donating the money-why would JC have to wait for (whoever it is) to be paid back first?

Like I said, I have no idea why they picked the $78 million figure. I agree it's confusing.

But for at least the 4th time... They can't call it a "donation" if the donors are going to get their money back. That's not a donation. That's a loan. I'm pretty sure it is seriously illegal to deliberately mischaracterize a loan as a donation.


Quote:
And in the revised plan, JC will be getting half the 'profits' (if any) from the get go.

It's a jello plan. You can't grab it, you can't examine it.

What "revised plan?" I haven't heard anyone discuss giving JC getting 1/2 the profits right off the bat.

Posted on: 2017/3/28 14:20
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
[quote]
That's not my understanding.

1. LSC fundraises and gets $78m from donors
2. LSC will invite investors for another $55m worth
3. LSC takes out loans for the rest of the project
4. Nothing has to be repaid to the donors
5. The city starts getting paid for the land, after the project makes $78m in profits; they are paid 50% of subsequent profits.
6. Once the land is paid off, the city's share drops to 20%.


In my opinion, not getting paid back until $78m in profits was a poor deal for JC. JC should be getting a % of revenues from day 1. It doesn't have to be 50% - it could even be 1-5%.

It could, but my guess is that the goal here is to ensure that the project succeeds. Draining funds in the early stages won't help, so there would have to be some deferment.

And again, Scitech is building a STEM-oriented public school there, and ensuring there is a low-rise and socially beneficial project there (as opposed to yet another round of condos, or a convention center). So deduct the cost of that construction from your estimates.


Quote:
But the current deal just incentivizes LSC to delay profitability. Or redefine what profit is (using accounting tricks).

The incentives to cheat are always present. There is nothing about this deal which increases the odds of that happening.

Posted on: 2017/3/28 13:45
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

stc4blues wrote:
I still don't understand what's going on with this $78M. De we have:

1. Doners' giving $78M to a non-profit entity, which then
2. loans it to a for-profit entity (against the value of the land?),
3. which must then repay the loan to the non-profit entity. Hence,
4. The City's 50/50 split of the net doesn't kick in until that loan is repaid.

Is that what's going on?

That's not my understanding.

1. LSC fundraises and gets $78m from donors
2. LSC will invite investors for another $55m worth
3. LSC takes out loans for the rest of the project
4. Nothing has to be repaid to the donors
5. The city starts getting paid for the land, after the project makes $78m in profits; they are paid 50% of subsequent profits.
6. Once the land is paid off, the city's share drops to 20%.

YOU REALLY NEED TO 'BINGE' ON THIS UN-EDITED 6plus HOUR VIDEO OF THE ACTUAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING & LISTEN TO PAUL HOFFMAN'S RECITAL OF HOW LSC RAISES PHILANTHROPIC FUNDS FROM DONORS & "LOANS" 78MM TO ITS NEWLY FORMED LLC [aka SCITECH CITY NOT4PROFIT]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1a8kBaHCo&app=desktop

Posted on: 2017/3/28 8:25
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Re: Stop the give away of taxpayers' city owned land. Ordinance 17-023
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JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
Quote:



Quote:
Now we're to believe that a $22 Million organization, which can't break even, can build a $230 Million++ SciTech Scity. The redeveloper is UNKNOWN...

LSC is in charge, and have appointed trustees. They are raising money already for the project. It's a bit early for too much more than a master plan.

Oddly enough, Fulop hated the 2008 loan, and is backing this plan. Go figure.

I also have to say, I vastly prefer to the previous plan, which was a 10 story hotel and conference center. Don't you?


Why not also include a hotel and conference center on a portion of the site if it makes the project and Sci-Tech City more economically feasible.

10 story hotel and huge conference center is not a good fit for the site in general.

That said, it sounds like the site will have a small conference center, and 50 units of temporary housing for visitors.

It's also a little difficult to have a big hotel and conference center occupying the same space as a project that combines commercial, residential and a school.


I don't disagree with any of your points, Dolomiti. I'll clarify my point: I don't believe Sci-Tech City, as originally planned, is economically feasible and thus will never be built or significantly scaled back from the fancy renderings we're seeing now. This reliance on philanthropic dollars is fantasy and the rushing through of this without an appraisal of the land reeks of something.

Don't get me wrong, the land could be worth $100 million. I still think it's a great project. I just lack confidence that the appropriate funding is in place without tapping into that land value by selling a portion for traditional development with proven track record of producing income (i.e. offices, residential).

The entire site is 16 acres. Three or four or those acres will need to be sold to traditional developments to maximize the highest and best use of the land in order to fund the other improvements, in my opinion. I hope my opinion is wrong, but I just don't see Liberty Science Center's board pulling this off.

Please, someone, prove me wrong and demonstrate that Liberty Science Center has the financial capacity to carry out SciTech City as planned.


LAND LEASES TO 4PROFIT DEVELOPERS coupled w/ DEEP ABATEMENTS

Posted on: 2017/3/28 7:44
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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JCGuys wrote:
You guys are nuts. If this land was sold at market value, we wouldn't get any of the community benefits coming from SciTech, such as the K12 school, the science and technology incubator, or the unique architecture. This will also have economic spin offs bringing much needed jobs!

This $20 million subsidy from the city is needed to make this happen, or we would just get the run of the mill apartments and condos here.

I think the city already does a good job at marketing and selling vacant and underutilized city land for redevelopment and having it produce revenue in the form of PILOT payments or property taxes. I would just put that process on steroids sell to whatever developer is willing to pay the most money up front plus whatever would generate the most in taxes. I think that's already happening in Journal Square with all the big mega towers going up.

YOU ARE 'NUTS' TO BELIEVE/THINK THAT ANY PRIMARY EDUCATION FACILITY INCLUDED IN THIS PROPOSAL WILL BE A JERSEY CITY PUBLIC SCHOOL, BUT THE RENDERINGS ARE NICE QUALITY.

Posted on: 2017/3/28 6:31
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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hero69 wrote: Quote:
Stringer wrote:

Fulop critics urge Jersey City Council to rethink $20M Liberty Science Center land deal

HUDSON COUNTY VIEW -By  John Heinis 

this is why its time for fulop to go! does this guy have any ethics! the building looks nice but i didn't realize he was gifting $20 million to the developers?
APPRAISAL ESTIMATES I AM HEARING FROM PRO.S ARE MORE LIKE 100-200MM given the new Transportation amenities already in place [HB LIGHTRAIL] & the Newly approved Access Roadway to DTJC.

Posted on: 2017/3/28 6:24
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Re: Transformative SciTechsity Science Technology Campus LSC Advance Council Approval
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annieruiz wrote:
"Funding for the project is expected to come largely from venture partners and philanthropists"

Sounds great! I just hope they already know who is paying for this so we dont get stuck with the bill in a few years. Looking forward to it though.
HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL.

KEEP A LOOK-OUT FOR HOW MUCH IS CONTRIBUTED BY THE STATE OF NJ TAX INCENTIVES, JC ABATEMENTS OR LEVERAGING OF THE ACTUAL PROPERTY FOR LOANS.....

Posted on: 2017/3/28 6:07
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