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Ultimately, same drivers apply to them. May take longer but eventually they'll come down.

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Yes, but it would be nice to have a larger off leash dog area that isn't fenced off besides Colgate within DTJC. VVP and Hamilton just don't give them the running space they would really like (and I feel REALLY sorry for the poor dogs that actually use the dog runs, lol!).

What does the rest of the board think?

But on the subject of shoprite, BB&B, etc. - their days are numbered. You won't find them in the same way as you don't find them in Manhattan or nicer parts of Brooklyn or even Hoboken.

Is that 12 towers in the rendering? Holy shite.

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As soon as the Fairway moves in it's all over for Shoprite!

This line from the article says it all:

"...a six-block development that will completely transform the surrounding neighborhood"

Are the other stores, BJ's and Shoprite going away too or just Pep Boys?

can't dogs run at lsp. i hope they keep the shoprite and bed, bath,beyond!

Good. Pep Boys is awful and overpriced, and box stores should go the way of the dinosaur. NYC has Whole Foods and plenty of other places to shop inside of residential and corporate towers. The only thing I really wish would happen is if the city would preemptively tear down a number of those big box stores and create a large, central park. One where dogs can run off leash!

(sorry, couldn't help myself on the last line)

so much construction going on, new expensive restaurants, more crowded trains...damn, damn, damn!

Looks like there is a new project, Hudson Exchange West, to replace Metro Plaza.

http://newyorkyimby.com/2014/05/revealed-hudson-exchange-west.html

http://www.perkinseastman.com/project_3418499_hudson_exchange

I doubt it. Shoprite/BJs/Bed Bath & Beyond have long term leases and in terms of big box stores I doubt the mall or the new Target is going anywhere. Also, a lack of reasonable grocery stores within walking distance is going to be a big problem if the idea is to draw people from NYC. Things are changing fast but not so fast that people don't need food or want it at a reasonable price.

I'm sure that I'm in the minority in working on my own vehicle and lamenting the loss of Pep Boys, oh well.

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here's some detail from census 2000 by zip from http://www.hometownlocator.com
a lot has changed since, but at least that's smth to chew on
of these 3 newport has just towers, though only 1 condo.
the diff is not large, but visible.
i'd say applied to hi-rise jc waterfront, it will increase still in the next 5 years.

hoboken:

$200,000 or more 1,316 6.8 %
Avg HH Income of HHs < $200k 65,236
Avg HH Income of HHs $200k or more 350,589
--------------------
jersey city - zip 07302 (ph,exchange pl, pad, hp)

$200,000 or more 581 4.1 %
Avg HH Income of HHs < $200k 52,196
Avg HH Income of HHs $200k or more 362,269

----------------------------
jc -07310 (newport and south of wash,north of 2st))

$200,000 or more 325 10.2 %
Avg HH Income of HHs < $200k 72,982
Avg HH Income of HHs $200k or more 357,452

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Yes, I was comparing JC towers to the average Hokoken resident at large, not the average Hoboken tower resident. You're right, tower residents are the same demographic, but there's still a lot of old Hoboken living in Hoboken--look to the west. (Just like old JC residents will live to the west.) And yes, there will be MORE tower residents in JC, simply because there is more waterfront real estate for development here than in Hoboken.

And don't kid yourself, the "Jersey is uncool" factor only concerns a small demographic. Hoboken is packed. JC will be packed. They might not move here from the UWS, but if they can buy new construction for less than in NYC or Hoboken, they'll move here from Indiana, Iowa, London, Jakarta, Lebanon, China, and they will be affluent, and they will pay for convenience.

Not saying I like this future, but it's where I see JC headed.

I can't wait until this New Jersian Utopia comes to pass. I can't wait until 30 years from now when all these towers are faded and look like some soviet-era architecture because we are all living in the new york subway and PATH tunnels because the sky turned pink and it rained acid for a month, then the Government passes a law that says the legal abortion age is being raised to 30 and Rush Limbugh is considered liberal because everything else has moved so far right... and ... and... and.......

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So you really think that the average Jersey City luxury tower resident is going to be more affluent than the average luxury tower resident in Hoboken? I'm not trying to be difficult or trying to argue, I'm just trying to truly understand where you're coming from. Your desired demo of Wall St./Techies/Lawyers/Doctors is pretty much the demo of the average Hoboken Tower resident, and quite likely the average demo of a Hoboken resident period. I just don't think it's likely that we will be more affluent than they are. I don't see what we have to offer that is so much more desirable than what they have to offer.

The only way I might be able to see your point is if the crux of your argument is that Jersey City will have MORE luxury towers than Hoboken, therefore MORE high-income people will live in Jersey City than live in Hoboken just based on size alone. I guess maybe I could see that. But of course that is based on the assumption that they are able to fill ALL of the towers with residents of their desired demo. And there's going to be a LOT of units at the end of all of this. And despite the real-estate squeeze in Manhattan, there are still a lot of people who would NEVER live in New Jersey for all the tea in Janam.

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The towers will be more affluent than the average in Hoboken--they'll be crammed with Wall Street finance and technology people, lawyers, and other folks who, if they do ever eat dinner at home, want to pick up their Whole Foods precooked meals as they head upstairs, etc.

I'm not sure if those supermarkets (A&P, Shop Rite) own their land. If they don't, and are just tennants, then the writing is on the wall--they either will have to jack up their prices sky high to pay for the next lease, or shoehorn into some other space. A&P look like they're already renovating to appeal to a more upscale clientele.

The squeeze is on.

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Actually I work by Grand Central and Third Ave has quite a few real grocery stores between 42nd & 34th Sts

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What about the people that DON'T live in the towers?

I consider Hoboken to be a fairly affluent town, and they still have a grocery store or two. Is your vision of Jersey City 2016 more affluet than Hoboken is now?

Manhattan is a different issue because I think that the vast majority of Manhattan residents don't cook very often, therefore most Manhattan residents would have little need for a grocery store. I equate us more with Brooklyn than Manhattan.

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Okay, to qualify my statement, there will be grocery stores integrated into the towers, just like Whole Foods has been able to penetrate new development in Manhattan. But the "drop a box on a parking lot" model will be priced out soon, because the space *above* the parking lot and store has too much value.

Developers will team up with retailers, and each tower might have a large retail tennant on the first floor, as well as parking. A tower with a BJs at the bottom, a tower with a Target at the bottom, etc.

Been to Columbus Circle recently? That's where we're heading.

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so basically, in ten years,

shop rite = towers
pathmark = towers
a&p = towers

i'd love to know where people plan to buy their groceries.

Face it. Eventually, all those box stores will be gone. The real estate is just too valuable--they'll all be towers in the next ten years or so.

But Pep Boys is actually useful!!!!! Argh!

A 755-foot residential tower called the "Metropolitan" is being proposed for land just south of the Newport Mall, at the site of where a Pep Boys Automotive store is currently located.

If it gets its city approvals, the structure at Sixth and Washington streets would be the second largest building in New Jersey. The largest building is already in Jersey City: the Goldman Sachs building at 30 Hudson St. stands at 791 feet.

Within a 10-block radius, there are several condo towers either under construction or that have been approved for construction, including: the 55-story Trump Plaza Jersey City on Washington Blvd. and Bay Street; the 33-story Athena on the corner of Washington Boulevard and Second Street; and the proposed San Remo I, San Remo, and Monaco condo towers located off Washington Boulevard behind the Doubletree Hotel.

The Metropolitan, when completed, will have 809 condominium units, 809 parking spaces on seven floors, and 12,445 square feet of retail space.

The tower is one of several that may be built in that 18-acre shopping area currently anchored by a Shop Rite supermarket and BJ's Wholesale Club. But those shopping stores will still remain.

The plans for the Metropolitan were presented to the Jersey City Redevelopment Agency at their August meeting, and will be presented to the Jersey City Planning Board on October 3.

Details behind the Metropolitan


G&S Investors, a real estate investment company based in Port Chester, N.Y., will build the Metropolitan. They have been the owners of the Metro Plaza shopping center since the early 1990s.

The designer of the project is the architectural firm Arquitectonica of Miami. They also designed the Ellipse, a 460-foot residential tower planned for construction in Jersey City's Newport residential area. They also designed the Westin Times Square hotel in New York City.

Tom Lehne, consultant for G&S Investors, said last week the Metropolitan is estimated to cost $180 to $200 million and construction would start next summer, pending all approvals from the city.

Lehne was the former head of the Jersey City Redevelopment Agency in the early 1980s.

Lehne also dispelled rumors regarding the closing of the Shop Rite supermarket, BJ'S Wholesale Club, and Bed, Bath & Beyond stores.

"The other stores have very long-term leases and they are doing great business, especially the Shop Rite," said Lehne. "And it is the wish of [Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah Healy] and the Redevelopment Agency, and I am sure the Planning Department, that the Shop Rite and its parking lot stays intact."

First phase of development at shopping center



Jersey City attorney Francis Schiller, representing the developers, said the Metropolitan project would be the first phase of a larger development project that would span over 20 years, with retail always having a presence in the plaza. Schiller said there will be a meeting with the city's Planning Department to create a master plan specifically for the plaza.

What prompted G&S Investors to look at a residential component? Lehne said the decision was based on them seeing the continuing development in Jersey City.

Schiller said there is no height restriction in the area, which is governed by the Hudson Exchange Redevelopment Plan. The height of this building, Schiller said, would provide "great view corridors" of the New York Skyline to the east and the Watchung Mountains to the west.

What's inside the Metropolitan?



Lehne said the developers are looking to provide a "first-class signature building."

Instead of housing only condos, Lehne said the developers may decide to provide a mix of condos and rentals. That will be predicated on a marketing study being done by the developers currently to learn how to attract new residents to the Metropolitan.

Lehne added that the developers will contribute their share of affordable housing as required by the city for the its Affordable Housing Trust Fund.

Residential units will conceal the four stories of parking from public view.

The 12,445 square feet of retail space on the ground floor will be divided into three areas. Both Schiller and Lehne agreed that the retail will be "neighborhood friendly boutiques" or small-scale retail since there are already big-box stores.

Councilman likes project but not abatement



Lehne said the developers will seek a tax abatement for the project.

A tax abatement is an agreement to exempt a developer from paying regular fluctuating property taxes. Instead, the developer makes a separate revenue deal to pay money directly to the city over 20 or 30 years. The city gets all the money rather than having to share it with the county and schools.

In the last few years, the agreements have become controversial because some people believe developers don't need the extra incentive to build, and other residents may have to chip in a bigger share of taxes than they should have to.

"The city actually makes a lot of money; it's a revenue producer," argued Lehne. "This site is two, three acres, which will mean millions of dollars going to the city."

Also happy about the Metropolitan but opposed to an abatement being granted is Ward E City Councilman Steven Fulop, who represents most of Downtown Jersey City, including the project site.

"I think it will be a great project, but if they come to seek an abatement, I will vote against it," said Fulop. "I think they can build this project without incentives."

Ricardo Kaulessar can be reached at rkaulessar@hudsonreporter.com