Browsing this Thread:
5 Anonymous Users
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
 
|
Quote:
Jeez, I don?t think Yvonne is struggling with being closeted or repressed. Attack her on what she says rather than a knee jerk backhanded insult.
Posted on: 2018/9/3 1:42
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
Joined:
2012/1/11 18:21 Last Login : 2019/12/26 15:30 From GV Bayside Park
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
5356
 |
Posted on: 2018/9/2 23:27
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
I'll interpret your response to mean you believe that homosexuality is a disorder. That of course leads me to believe that you struggle with your own sexual orientation. I am very sorry for you in that regard. Please know that I will be praying for you to find inner peace.
Posted on: 2018/9/2 23:24
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Quote:
I believe gay men should not be priests. I believe in free will. Ultimately, we are all answerable to God.
Posted on: 2018/9/2 15:15
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
So you subscribe to the notion that homosexuality is a disorder?
Quote:
Posted on: 2018/9/2 0:11
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Bishops Molino and Barron have publicly stated homosexuality is the problem. Cardinal Tobin of Newark has told his priests and seminarians that they cannot talk to the press after 6 of them did reach out. The John Jay report in 2004 said around 85% were teenage boys which means 15% were females. It is amazing how people here look the for 15% and ignore the 85%. By the way, Tobin was appointed in 2016 by Pope Francis, he got the recommendation for his seat from the predatory Cardinal McCarrick who assaulted an eleven, sixteen and many men in their 20s. I forgot to mention that some of those homosexual priests that were kicked out of Columbia did apply to places of formation in Newark. I guess that is why those 6 priests/seminarians wanted to reach out to the press.
Posted on: 2018/9/1 21:47
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
I am not so sure that the celibacy requirement is the problem. A few years ago I read a NYT Magazine article about an Orthodox Rabbi who is trying to blow the cover on the pedophile problem in the Orthodox community. However, he meets a lot of resistance from the Orthodox community. Incidentally, I once had an Orthodox female colleague who confided me in that there is also an unreported HIV problem in the Orthodox community. So in light of the fact that Rabbi's are married, and there is apparently an unreported child abuse problem in the orthodox community, perhaps the problem isn't the celibacy requirement but the requirement that seminarians be cloistered during their priestly formation. Until the 80s seminaries were in distant isolated locations. In the mid to late 80s dioceses started moving their seminary programs onto main college campuses where seminarians became part of normal late adolescent college life Also, there was a time when the Church was admitting seminarians as young as 14, typically their admitted at 18 for the college seminary. I suspect that similarly may be part of the problem. Anecdotally, it seems that there are much fewer abuse allegations made against Jesuits who are required to go out on the world and work a few years before being entered into their seminary program. Also, among the Catholic religious sects, the Jesuits seem to be more prodigious.
The homosexuality component I believe is not part of the problem and in fact probably has nothing to do with it. Except perhaps to the extent that homosexual men for so long felt so denigrated by societies' hatred, disdain and alienation of them, that perhaps for some that eroded their self esteem causing some undetermined emotional and psychological problems. Unfortunately, the Church like the vast majority of other organizations subscribed to a policy of protecting their own and covering up bad acts. Transparency in general is a very new phenomena in the US. Certainly, that's not a defense at all. But I think important to keep in mind when analyzing the crises. To be transparent, I'm a former seminarian of the Catholic Archdiocese of Newark. I left the seminary back in 1987. I almost never attend services at all any more. Still I identify as Catholic to some degree. I went to a public grammar school in Newark and a Catholic HS. I was an alter boy, a boy scout in a troop out of my local parish. I played in my parish little league from the time I was 8 until I was 17. l I have never been a target of abuse or an inappropriate sexual overture by a priest. Nor was anyone I knew to my knowledge. Of course, that is not at all conclusive of anything. I think the situation is a disturbing mess. But humanity is. Again, no excuse for the abhorrent manner in which this has been handled. But the fallout is going to be messy and inequitable. But hopefully it will be cathartic. Quote:
Posted on: 2018/9/1 14:41
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Not too shy to talk
 
|
Benedict, JP2, Francis -- whatever their stances, traditional or modern, all these heads of the Church confronted the issue only when it became a pr nightmare for the church, and impossible to ignore any longer. Had they not been forced by the public and journalists to take action, unlikely anything would have been done.
Posted on: 2018/9/1 3:34
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
Joined:
2012/9/18 3:58 Last Login : 2021/9/23 15:07 From Between Thought and Expression
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
907
|
The Catholic Church Is Sick With Sex
Outside of condemning adulterous behavior, Christ never said anything about whom you could love. Timothy Egan By Timothy Egan Contributing Opinion Writer Aug. 31, 2018 One pope was a father of 10 through multiple mistresses, a man who purchased the papacy with mule-loads of silver. It is said that Alexander VI, the most debauched of the Borgia pontiffs, elected in 1492, even had an affair with one of his daughters. Another pope contracted syphilis during his reign ? a ?disease very fond of priests, especially rich priests,? as the saying went in Renaissance times. That was Julius II, known as ?Il terrible.? A third pope, Pius IX, added Flaubert?s ?Madame Bovary? and John Stuart Mill?s book on the free market economy to the Vatican?s List of Prohibited Books during his long reign in the 19th century. He also formalized the doctrine of papal infallibility. What these Holy Fathers had in common was not just that they were badly flawed men putting forth badly flawed ideas: At the root of their moral failings is Catholicism?s centuries-old inability to come to grips with sex... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/31/opi ... smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur
Posted on: 2018/9/1 3:25
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
Joined:
2017/1/3 18:17 Last Login : 2020/10/12 20:58 From Jersey City
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
434
|
And the heterosexual priests who got teenage girls pregnant.? Any thoughts on priests who molested little girls?
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/14/us/penn ... rch-grand-jury/index.html
Posted on: 2018/9/1 0:53
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
The facts bother people here by polluting it with other items. But the people who are part of the Church, I am referring to bishops, priests, and seminarians are saying there is an active homosexual sub-culture. Some of these people like McCarrick advanced in ranks and protected predators. McCarrick did not care about the age of his victims. It is well known that one was 11, another 16 but most were adult men in their 20s who wanted to be priests. Here is the irony, he was their boss and decided if they were to be priests. McCarrick dismissed faithful men who protested loudly. So I don't buy this pedophilia, it is homosexuality. Although I would hope some homosexual men who are priests did not behave as McCarrick. But the evidence shows that many did.
Posted on: 2018/8/31 23:29
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
After decades of silence, nuns talk about abuse by priests
Three Catholic reform organizations have expressed solidarity with women religious speaking about sexual abuse by clergy. AIDS exacerbates sexual exploitation of nuns, reports allege - National Catholic Reporter - Archived 2001 report mentioned in both articles)
Posted on: 2018/8/31 23:11
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Not too shy to talk
|
Mao & Yvonne- The fact is conservative or liberal- the popes and powers that be in the Catholic church were corruptly putting the institution above the welfare of its flock, for decades/centuries.
And to pronounce that there can be no change within an institution because Catholicism means no change is not only strange but also self-serving to your rigid agenda. People were brutalized during the Crusades, our country at one time legalized slavery...Arguably change is not only a good thing but necessary if institutions, countries, and humans are to evolve. And seriously, who made you the arbitor of what the Catholic church 'is' , 'should' be, and cannot be?
Posted on: 2018/8/31 20:34
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Not too shy to talk
|
Mao- Oh that's right - it was Pope Benedict (I was mixing him but with JP2) who was the conservative...
while Benedict was a pro- Tridentine Mass pope with regressive policies on gays and women, he wasn't, contrary to your assertion, a protector of children. yet there you go, again selectively supporting him (while blasting Pope Francis) with regard to the Catholic church abuses crisis, because apparently you agree with Benedict's politics (and yet denigrate John Paul 2 bc he appointed McCarrick and those darn 'liberals'). https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-de ... se-in-the-catholic-church
Posted on: 2018/8/31 19:59
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Quote:
Uh huh. And Roy Moore was just a heterosexual doing what heterosexuals do, am I right?
Posted on: 2018/8/31 19:53
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Fr. Tom, you know, was a close collaborator with McCarrick a serial abuser who advanced many abusers.
In fact, I believe JP II was terrible as a Pope and did enabled much of this abuse by, inter alia, advancing people like McCarrick and Fr. Maciel. Pope Benedict, a genius, acted with relative speed and decisiveness against the prelates and priests acting out sexually. That would seem to be in his favor, no? I certainly respect those who reject the claims of the Catholic Faith, but only when they leave the Church. Catholic truth by its own terms is unchanging. Those who want new paradaigm, etc have many to choose from.
Posted on: 2018/8/31 19:40
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
Joined:
2017/1/3 18:17 Last Login : 2020/10/12 20:58 From Jersey City
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
434
|
The Nazis kept meticulous records too. Once again I have to ask "your point?"
Posted on: 2018/8/31 19:12
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
The difference between the predator priests in the Catholic Church and predator Hollywood moguls or predator men who go after teens in general is one thing -paper work. The Catholic Church kept written documents because they are an organization. Seminarians writing on Catholic website are calling this for what it is - homosexuality.
Posted on: 2018/8/31 19:08
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Not too shy to talk
|
Yvonne is too easy a target, so i'm not even attempting to address her directly anymore.
But Mao, with your attempt to come off as somehow 'reasoned' is arguably the one more insidiuous. First, your past posts under both your current name and as you state your prior screen name of Publius, you seemed more than ready to attack Pope Francis and readily admit you detest him for his liberal Catholic positions compared to a conservative pope like Radzinger or Pope John Paul, who you were heartily defending on these issues years ago, when the Catholic child abuse crisis was going on for decades. One of your JC list posts was a literally 5- pages long treatise on conservative Catholicism! Your disruptive marches and rants decades ago during Fr Tom Ivanowicz's attempts to modernize the direction of the OLC parish when he was pastor also reveals your skin in this game. Your sermonizing - espousing the Latin mass, denouncing Vatican 2 reforms, birth control, womens rights, homosexuality, etc. and comparing Pope Francis practically to the anti-Christ, reveals your extreme, certainly not mainstream agenda. Calling out your seeming hypocrisy is an observation, not an attack. Frankly, I'd rather someone with these bigoted views be like Yvonne, whose lack of sophistry in arguing these issues is transparent and thus easily rebutted. You attempting to come off as "reasoned" or somehow enlightened is, I believe, completely disingenuous.
Posted on: 2018/8/31 18:13
Edited by esp123 on 2018/8/31 18:29:14
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
Joined:
2017/1/3 18:17 Last Login : 2020/10/12 20:58 From Jersey City
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
434
|
Yes, teens are being molested. We should condemn any and all covering it up. Isn't that what we are discussing?
But let's not make the mistake of thinking that every teen that has an STD is getting it from an adult.
Posted on: 2018/8/31 16:49
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Holy shit, what a vile and scummy diversion from the subject of the RCC covering up for abuse.
Posted on: 2018/8/31 16:41
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
One in 4 infecting with HIV virus are young people, so no matter how you rationalize, it adults are molesting teens. This is now part of the culture that should be addressed. A minor in the legal sense cannot give consent.
https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/hivamongyouth/index.html
Posted on: 2018/8/31 16:32
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
Joined:
2017/1/3 18:17 Last Login : 2020/10/12 20:58 From Jersey City
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
434
|
Yvonne, why is Hollywood part of this discussion? It sounds as though you are justifying the church's coverup and complicity by saying it happens elsewhere too. Is that what you are saying?
Posted on: 2018/8/31 15:57
Edited by K-Lo2 on 2018/8/31 16:16:54
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Quote:
(FROM CDC WEBSITE) In 2016: 8,451 youth received an HIV diagnosis in the United States. Eighty percent (6,776) of those diagnoses occurred in young people aged 20 to 24. Eighty-one percent (6,848) of HIV diagnoses were among youth with infections attributed to male-to-male sexual contact. African Americans accounted for 54% (3,719) of infections attributed to male-to-male sexual contact, Hispanics/Latinos accounted for 25% (1,687), whites accounted for 16% (1,094), and other races/ethnicities accounted for 5%. Four percent (274) of infections among young men were attributed to heterosexual contact, 3% (228) were attributed to male-to-male sexual contact and injection drug use, and 1% (98) to injection drug use alone. 992 young women received an HIV diagnosis. Eighty-seven percent (865) of those infections were attributed to heterosexual contact and 9% (92) were attributed to injection drug use. 1,473 youth received an AIDS diagnosis, representing 8% of total AIDS diagnoses that year. And for those playing at home: Most new HIV cases in younger people are due to unprotected sex; one third are from sharing contaminated needles used to inject drugs or other substances (such as steroids), or used for tattooing and body art.
Posted on: 2018/8/31 15:45
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
The first sentence from Center for Disease control and prevention, "In 2016, youth aged 13 to 24 made up 21% of all new HIV diagnoses in the United States." So why are 13 year old infected by HIV unless an older man is molesting them? It is also the reason why the government must also check what is going on in Hollywood. https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2 ... -movie-campaign-interview
Posted on: 2018/8/31 15:23
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/9/14 18:57 Last Login : 2020/1/27 22:17 From Hamilton Park
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
1053
|
Homosexuality is not the problem. People like YOU are.
Quote:
Posted on: 2018/8/31 14:59
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
If it was not made clear in my earlier posts- the church is absolutely responsible for this and this must be addressed by rooting out all the abusers and their protectors. I'm sorry if this got lost in the weeds. This starts with Pope Francis, his entire Group of Nine Cardinals (O'Malley, Tagle, Maraiga, etc), and in the US Cardinals McCarrick, Mahoney, Tobin, Wuerl, Chupich, McElroy, Gregory, etc. Each country has its clique that must go. But locally, to return this to OLC, I think Fr. Page can be given the benefit of the doubt because he only arrived in February, Fr. Gerry had no involvement with the school anyway, and the lurid details of the abuse were only printed last week, on August 19th.
Posted on: 2018/8/31 14:38
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Much like in prison, sexual assault also relies on availability of targets. Buys are chosen because the are available as altar boys and other activities that bring them into private proximity with priests.
The vast majority of sexual assault in prison is not due to the perpetrator being gay in any way. But this entire sidetrack is to distract from the Catholic Church being a repeat offender on mass cover ups of sexual assaults.
Posted on: 2018/8/31 14:25
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Responses to some of my toughtful interlocutors:
1. Yes, the heterosexual orientation of male rapists is a factor in understanding and prevent rape of women by men, under age and of age. There is a mantra that says rapes has nothing to do with sex, its all about power. I don't know. It seems hard to say it has nothing to do with sex. It seems to be very disordered and immoral sex. 2. I guess we knew this as pederasty. Its had a long history, associated with ancient Greece, though not to the extent that Professor Dover. https://www.amazon.com/Greek-Homosexua ... -Postscript/dp/0674362705 It's a big part of many Islamic societies. For instance, there has been a lot of problems because US command in Afganistan have had to turn a blind eye to this stuff by the Afgan military. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/wor ... allies-abuse-of-boys.html. While I think it is very true that many male homosexuals have nothing to do with pederasty, it is equally true that all pedarists engage in homosexual acts. Christianity fobids all sexual acts that are not in a sacramental marriage and open to life. 90% of catholics, clergy and laity, ignore this. 3. Obviously, sexual relations with an underage person is criminal, whether female or male. There have been some priest predation of teenage girls, but it is maybe 5% of the cases. I could be wrong. For a Catholic priest, sex with anyone should be grounds for laicization or at least removal from parish life. We're all sinners but the priest because of his role, because of his authority cannot be allowed to continue with these weaknesses. 4. Anyway, I am sorry if any of my comments offend anyone. They are not meant to. There is a real diversity today about what it means to live the good life. How does it help if we merely shout each other down?
Posted on: 2018/8/31 14:08
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Yeah what Yvonne and Mao and others are not understanding is that whether it's gay or straight or whatever is irrelevant. The larger problem is that the Church (YOUR CHURCH) has been covering it up and giving protecting to the abusers instead of the abused.
The Catholic Church and every one of its apologists is responsible for the continued abuse and rape of male and female children, teens, and men. Yes Yvonne Balcer, I am saying that you are personally responsible for turning a blind eye to the molestation and rape of young men, women, and children, because you'd rather ignore the actual problems and blame it all on a gay socialist conspiracy to infiltrate the church instead.
Posted on: 2018/8/31 14:07
|
|||
|
||||