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hero69

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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well, to be fair, perhaps the tenants were small people so 6 foot ceilings were ok. besides, did anyone force the tenants to rent the units?

Posted on: 2019/8/21 22:11

MDM

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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The NYC version:

"The ceiling heights were 4.5 feet to 6 feet tall on each level, depending on where you were standing," Department of Buildings spokesperson Abigail Kunitz said in an email to NPR.

When an inspector visited the building this month, he found half-size doors and low ceilings, forcing him to kneel in an improvised hallway. A small staircase connected the two floors. Along with unapproved structural changes, the Department of Buildings says, the inspector found the space riddled with unpermitted electrical and plumbing work.

The compressed living spaces prompted New York City Council Member Ben Kallos to compare the arrangement to the movie Being John Malkovich, which features a cramped office ? and a tiny door ? on floor 7 1/2 of a Manhattan building.

---------------------------------

Officials promptly ordered all occupants to vacate Apartment 601, hitting the owner, Xue Pin Ni, with a potential maximum fine of $144,750 in civil penalties and ordering the subunits to be stripped out of the space. The penalty is set to rise, as the city will also fine Ni $1,000 every day that each illegal subunit remains on the premises, for up to 45 days.

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/20/7527917 ... 8-micro-apartments-in-nyc

Posted on: 2019/8/21 2:35

brewster

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Every inspection would turn up new "deficiencies" and the process would drag out for each unit that needed to get a CO. Of course, the shenanigans were rampant. I am sure Azul has it right.

Everyone should audio record these inspections. I have a recording of a JC building inspector telling me that if the roofer flooded the building with a improper drain connection I should have hired a better roofer, he didn't have a problem with it.

Posted on: 2017/7/22 0:23

JerseyCityNj

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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Will the building have a doorman? Seems like a recipe for disaster to have a bunch of young single women who live alone being two doors down from a building full of registered sex offenders.

The room for rent place two buildings down the block is full of them. At the moment I believe 8 live in that one building alone.

Posted on: 2017/7/21 21:56

Bamb00zle

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Not that I want to defend the Building Department, but I should also clarify that the situation with my building was somewhat unique/special: it used to be a condo building that, after the economy tanked in 2007, couldn't move the remaining units, so they decided to rent unsold units, and all those units had to be retrofitted according to new standards for legal renting. It was a mess, from what I heard from management. Every inspection would turn up new "deficiencies" and the process would drag out for each unit that needed to get a CO. Of course, the shenanigans were rampant. I am sure Azul has it right.

Even that sounds bizarre to me. The building code for ?multi-family buildings? applies by building characteristics (number of dwelling unit, height and so on), not by condo or rental as far as I am aware....

Since 1977 and the UCC, if a building met requirements of the Code edition in effect at the time it was built ? which it must have otherwise you couldn't have lived there since it wouldn't have had a CO ? then that's it. New Code editions can't be applied retroactively in these situations. Even older buildings bought into compliance with the retrofit Code in the late 1980's were ?grandfathered? in once the retrofit requirements were met and the CO or inspection "pass" issued.

The only possible wrinkle I can think of would be IF it was a conversion from condo to rental that involved significant new rehab work on the building. That would have triggered the requirements in the Rehab code.... and in most cases a need to meet current Fire Code requirements.

Every time I hear about these things I find myself thinking something nefarious is going down. What a great way to pick up a very cheap building. Issue some Fire Code violations, amp up the fines, and wait till the owner runs out of money. You have to wonder....

Maybe some City employees / Fire Code folks monitoring this site will shed some light on the mystery for us.

Posted on: 2017/7/21 20:03

bodhipooh

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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Quote:

Bamb00zle wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
I am often surprised and/or puzzled by the building codes and the many changes that seem capriciously enforced. At my previous building, some inspector decided that having windows facing onto a hallway through which people could evacuate was unacceptable, and so the building had to plaster over the windows of an apartment, which led to the unit losing almost all of its sun exposure. The apartment essentially became a windows-less box, with the only windows being located towards the back of one bedroom. The inspector claimed that if there was a fire inside that unit, and people in the building needed to evacuate, that the windows could potentially explode onto the hallway and injure those trying to evacuate. It seemed so far fetched, but the building had no choice but to comply, or they wouldn't issue them a CO.

What is it about the JC Building Department Fire Inspectors that these issues aren't picked up at the time of plan review? They review and sign-off that plans meet code BEFORE a building permit is issued. I hear about this nonsense time and again and now think it might be deliberate malfeasance.

It reminds me of the craziness with Mike Razzoli and Atomic Wings. The City eventually settled the suit bought by the owner. But not before he was nearly driven to bankruptcy. Great way for someone to pick up a cheap building ? very tough (illegal even?) to sell something with a Fire Code violation and no CO. I have to wonder how often this nonsense goes down around here....?

Not that I want to defend the Building Department, but I should also clarify that the situation with my building was somewhat unique/special: it used to be a condo building that, after the economy tanked in 2007, couldn't move the remaining units, so they decided to rent unsold units, and all those units had to be retrofitted according to new standards for legal renting. It was a mess, from what I heard from management. Every inspection would turn up new "deficiencies" and the process would drag out for each unit that needed to get a CO. Of course, the shenanigans were rampant. I am sure Azul has it right.

Posted on: 2017/7/21 19:24

Azul_the_Cat

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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Quote:

Bamb00zle wrote:
I have to wonder how often this nonsense goes down around here....?

All the time. The solution usually involves one of these.
Resized Image

Posted on: 2017/7/21 18:49

Bamb00zle

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
I am often surprised and/or puzzled by the building codes and the many changes that seem capriciously enforced. At my previous building, some inspector decided that having windows facing onto a hallway through which people could evacuate was unacceptable, and so the building had to plaster over the windows of an apartment, which led to the unit losing almost all of its sun exposure. The apartment essentially became a windows-less box, with the only windows being located towards the back of one bedroom. The inspector claimed that if there was a fire inside that unit, and people in the building needed to evacuate, that the windows could potentially explode onto the hallway and injure those trying to evacuate. It seemed so far fetched, but the building had no choice but to comply, or they wouldn't issue them a CO.

What is it about the JC Building Department Fire Inspectors that these issues aren't picked up at the time of plan review? They review and sign-off that plans meet code BEFORE a building permit is issued. I hear about this nonsense time and again and now think it might be deliberate malfeasance.

It reminds me of the craziness with Mike Razzoli and Atomic Wings. The City eventually settled the suit bought by the owner. But not before he was nearly driven to bankruptcy. Great way for someone to pick up a cheap building ? very tough (illegal even?) to sell something with a Fire Code violation and no CO. I have to wonder how often this nonsense goes down around here....?

Posted on: 2017/7/21 18:17

bodhipooh

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
...The inspector claimed that if there was a fire inside that unit, and people in the building needed to evacuate, that the windows could potentially explode onto the hallway and injure those trying to evacuate. It seemed so far fetched, but the building had no choice but to comply, or they wouldn't issue them a CO.

In terms of fire resistance, a window is just a hole in the wall. Commercial buildings often use water curtains (closely spaced sprinklers) or fire-rated glazing assemblies to protect openings in similar situations, but they?re very expensive solutions.

That was certainly crappy for the tenants, but the explanation was spot-on, not far-fetched.

I see your point, and I should have used better words. Perhaps not far fetched, but "unlikely"? The window was not directly next to the hallway (perhaps about 5 - 10 feet away?) and I can understand that there is SOME risk of a scenario like that one happening, but all this risk mitigation seems haphazardly enforced. I am not sure that a different inspector would have made the same determination. In the end, the building management got jerked around A LOT. Every time an inspector came on site to do inspections, something new was pointed out as not in compliance. It took the building a LONG time to get a CO issued. Based on the nightmare stories related by others in other threads, I am not sure that this wasn't the usual game of "we will keep dinging you until you relent".

Posted on: 2017/7/21 17:26

Frank_M

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
...The inspector claimed that if there was a fire inside that unit, and people in the building needed to evacuate, that the windows could potentially explode onto the hallway and injure those trying to evacuate. It seemed so far fetched, but the building had no choice but to comply, or they wouldn't issue them a CO.

In terms of fire resistance, a window is just a hole in the wall. Commercial buildings often use water curtains (closely spaced sprinklers) or fire-rated glazing assemblies to protect openings in similar situations, but they?re very expensive solutions.

That was certainly crappy for the tenants, but the explanation was spot-on, not far-fetched.

Posted on: 2017/7/21 17:04

bodhipooh

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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I am often surprised and/or puzzled by the building codes and the many changes that seem capriciously enforced. At my previous building, some inspector decided that having windows facing onto a hallway through which people could evacuate was unacceptable, and so the building had to plaster over the windows of an apartment, which led to the unit losing almost all of its sun exposure. The apartment essentially became a windows-less box, with the only windows being located towards the back of one bedroom. The inspector claimed that if there was a fire inside that unit, and people in the building needed to evacuate, that the windows could potentially explode onto the hallway and injure those trying to evacuate. It seemed so far fetched, but the building had no choice but to comply, or they wouldn't issue them a CO.

Posted on: 2017/7/21 13:55

Azul_the_Cat

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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There a lot of things that I'm not sure how this made it though the DOB. You also need smoke baffles with an open kitchen like that.

Posted on: 2017/7/21 13:48

Dolomiti

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
Quote:

MDM wrote:
Quote:

Azul_the_Cat wrote:
While that would make for a better layout, building code states that you can no longer have your main egress be though a kitchen.

What is the logic behind this? Would this also be the case if you had an apartment with one of those open kitchen / living room combinations?

In an emergency, the path of egress should probably not take people directly through a room where most home fires start.

That makes sense, but seems unavoidable in a shotgun apartment.

Posted on: 2017/7/21 13:46

Frank_M

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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Quote:

MDM wrote:
Quote:

Azul_the_Cat wrote:
While that would make for a better layout, building code states that you can no longer have your main egress be though a kitchen.

What is the logic behind this? Would this also be the case if you had an apartment with one of those open kitchen / living room combinations?

In an emergency, the path of egress should probably not take people directly through a room where most home fires start.

Posted on: 2017/7/21 12:27

brewster

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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Quote:

MDM wrote: Quote:
Azul_the_Cat wrote: While that would make for a better layout, building code states that you can no longer have your main egress be though a kitchen.
What is the logic behind this? Would this also be the case if you had an apartment with one of those open kitchen / living room combinations?

You mean one of the many thousand "studio" apartment in the metro area? Yeah, this seems bizarro. I lived 2 years in a Chelsea 12x20 studio with the bath, 2 closets and galley kitchen outside that box, so it was probably <320 sq ft. I built a loft bed, and it was fine for a young person who spends little time at home.

Posted on: 2017/7/21 1:54

Yvonne

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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I am sure someone will write a comedy about an embarrassing moment in his/her micro apartment.

Posted on: 2017/7/20 23:54

MDM

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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Quote:

Azul_the_Cat wrote:
While that would make for a better layout, building code states that you can no longer have your main egress be though a kitchen.

What is the logic behind this? Would this also be the case if you had an apartment with one of those open kitchen / living room combinations?

Posted on: 2017/7/20 23:22

Dolomiti

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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Yvonne wrote:
So developers get around this by having the entrance in the bathroom. Our planning board approved this? It is time for a change in our planning board then.

Why?

Increased urban density is inevitable, and the design is small but appears to be quite efficient.

Nor is this necessarily unhygienic, as the toilet is in a sealed room. It's just... amusing.

Posted on: 2017/7/20 20:22

Dolomiti

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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Azul_the_Cat wrote:
wait a minute...the front door to the apartment is in the bathroom? WTF?

Yep. Seems kind of typical for a NYC area apartment, no?

Posted on: 2017/7/20 20:03

Yvonne

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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So developers get around this by having the entrance in the bathroom. Our planning board approved this? It is time for a change in our planning board then.

Posted on: 2017/7/20 17:38

Azul_the_Cat

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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While that would make for a better layout, building code states that you can no longer have your main egress be though a kitchen.

Posted on: 2017/7/20 17:28

Yvonne

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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Who would pay $1,300 a month for an apartment that opens to the bathroom, suppose you have guests? Wouldn't it be better to have the opening in the kitchen, with the bathroom off to the side?

Posted on: 2017/7/20 16:59

Azul_the_Cat

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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wait a minute...the front door to the apartment is in the bathroom? WTF?

Posted on: 2017/7/20 16:46

Dolomiti

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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$1300/mo for a fully furnished incredibly small unit, with lots of amenities (cafe, tv room, gym, roof deck). But no separate storage space. Ouch.

Plus, the entrance is the "Large Bathroom." Sweet.

Resized Image

Posted on: 2017/7/20 16:42

Stringer

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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City hopes these tiny 1st-of-its-kind apartments meet its big housing needs

By Steve Strunsky - NJ Advance Media for NJ.com

JERSEY CITY -- With the market for studio and one-bedroom apartments having remained red hot for years in Jersey City, it's taken so-called micro-units a while to catch on. But they're now on their way.

Smart Living Developments has begun construction on what the firm says is New Jersey's first micro-unit residential project, which will offer space-efficient studio-type apartments of 222 to 285 square feet, for less money than standard studios.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... ments_break_ground_i.html

Posted on: 2017/7/20 14:15

hero69

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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Quote:

JCGuys wrote: Quote:
Stringer wrote:
Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building
By Kristen Keller The Jersey Journal
The concept of tiny houses has become popular around the country -- even spawning two HGTV shows -- and now developers are trying it with apartment living.
Nest Micro Apartments will offer fully furnished units that are less than 300 square feet in Journal Square. The building is being developed by KSNY, of New York, and Strategic Properties.
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... eaks_ground_in_jerse.html
$1,300 ?! Incredible and a sorry reflection of how unaffordable life is becoming in the NYC metro area.

but it is furnished and comes with plenty of amenities.

Posted on: 2017/7/2 1:51

JCGuys

Re: Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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Quote:

Stringer wrote:
Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building
By Kristen Keller The Jersey Journal
The concept of tiny houses has become popular around the country -- even spawning two HGTV shows -- and now developers are trying it with apartment living.
Nest Micro Apartments will offer fully furnished units that are less than 300 square feet in Journal Square. The building is being developed by KSNY, of New York, and Strategic Properties.
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... eaks_ground_in_jerse.html

$1,300 ?! Incredible and a sorry reflection of how unaffordable life is becoming in the NYC metro area.

Posted on: 2017/6/30 22:00

Stringer

Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

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Developers break ground on Jersey City micro-units apartment building

By Kristen Keller The Jersey Journal

The concept of tiny houses has become popular around the country -- even spawning two HGTV shows -- and now developers are trying it with apartment living.

Nest Micro Apartments will offer fully furnished units that are less than 300 square feet in Journal Square. The building is being developed by KSNY, of New York, and Strategic Properties.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... eaks_ground_in_jerse.html

Posted on: 2017/6/30 20:03

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