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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Quite a regular
 
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This doesn't address the lack of informational dissemination overall from the VNA unless you are volunteering to attend all future VNA meetings as the note taker and information provider. That seems to be a legitimate concern for Village residents who either can't attend meetings or have attended in the past to see their non majority view (of those in attendance) quickly dismissed. The VNA does a lot of things which take time (trash mob, organizing.meetings, canvassing telephone poles about meetings, etc) so it doesn't seem like an outrageous request for some.notes on the meetings which are promoted and held.
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Posted on: 2016/5/19 20:30
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Newbie
 
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This is great and just continues to prove that you have no real answers to the concerns brought up here no real responses and have completely resorted to high school cliquish name calling and diverting from the questions and issue at hand . But hold on I will create 4 different accounts to say that. The VNA and their shinanagans aren't new and just because the meetings are lacking in full community interest now doesn't mean that people like myself haven't tried and been dismissed or disgusted in the past. But go ahead and twist things from the issues. As pointed out in this thread the VNA DID MAKE A STANCE AND DID ATTEMPT TO INFLUENCE THE PLANNING OFFICIAL BY SAYING THEY SPEAK FOR THE VILLAGE AND THEY DONT. As far as something to lose u are absolutely correct when an unfair plan to my immediate surroundings is attempted to be put in place and passed as law with a push from my so called neighborhood group who claims to speak for me without speaking to me is considered then ur right at that point I have lost my freedom of speech that I am now exercising.
Posted on: 2016/5/19 17:02
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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This guy keeps using his different accounts to respond to you. He seems to have antisocial tendencies, spending all this effort here but not bothering to show up in person. Probably not worth your time.
Posted on: 2016/5/19 16:41
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Newbie
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VNA cannot and should not be taken seriously. First of all, two of the board members don?t even live in the Village and two live in the same household. Secondly, I understand there have never been any elections for the VNA. I have known City Planning in JC for many years and have personally talked to them. The meeting in March was a presentation of 44 Ft rezoning to match historic zoning and the talk was about 41 FT instead of 44 to adjust for the new flood changes. The unelected board have decided to communicate with JC Planning outside that meeting to reduce the height to 31 ft in just a 3 block section. THIS is the reason people are up in arms. All decisions and communications from the VNA should be discounted, whether it happened in the past or in the future. Let council or the people who went to school for this do their job and not a bunch of yuppies who walk into a town and now think they own it. It?s disgusting to claim that you represent the people but you have never been elected and in some cases don?t even live in the community.
Posted on: 2016/5/19 16:35
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Newbie
Joined:
2016/4/29 18:46 Last Login : 2016/10/13 17:28 From Jersey City
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Registered Users
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"How many people at this meeting actually said they wanted this north/south plan? Like, maybe 5 cantankerous old people?"
Hey, there is nothing wrong with us "cantankerous old people".
Posted on: 2016/5/19 16:01
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
Joined:
2005/3/2 4:49 Last Login : 2018/6/12 15:20 From Downtown Ex Pat happy in McGinley Sq.
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Registered Users
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Does anyone here find it ironic that the loudest voices attacking the VNA have a lot of time to gripe on a message board, yet don't go to the public VNA meetings (or create their own organization in their neighborhood if they oppose them so strongly) to get more info and engage in the discussion?
You have to join the dialogue to make your voice heard. No one is going to pound on every door bearing information. If you don't think the city handled it properly, then talk to your Councilperson. Engage yourself.
Posted on: 2016/5/19 16:00
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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What don't you understand about this point? A very small, but vocal minority gave feedback and a significant rezoning plan was altered because of it. How many people at this meeting actually said they wanted this north/south plan? Like, maybe 5 cantankerous old people? Why is this point so difficult for you to comprehend? Maybe it's the city's fault for listening to this very tiny minority of people and altering the plan, but the facts stand that the VNA played a big role in having this regulation altered. Did *anybody* at this meeting stand up and say "Wait, I think we should really get input from the majority of the community on this?" I think not, because the self-serving agenda of the members in attendance was fulfilled. Why don't you see that this may be the reason people are so upset? Why not take the criticism to heart and actually work on making the VNA more transparent with these dealings instead of defensively sticking your head in the sand and calling everybody who disagrees a developer shill? I can easily turn this around on you and claim you must have been one of those 5 or 10, or whatever the number was, of people at the meeting pushing for this ridiculous north/south plan, so you feel the need to defend your decision as much as possible. Judging by the tenor and content of your posts, you probably were. Sorry to say, not everybody shares your opinion of the esteemed VNA and maybe the majority of the community doesn't like having decision on their property values made for them?
Posted on: 2016/5/19 15:31
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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The VNA doesn't purport to speak for everyone - no NA can possibly or would possibly claim that, but it speaks as a representative majority based on voting members at public meetings. If residents don't show up / send someone in their 'stead / contact officials with concerns / i.e. make other arrangements, how can you possibly expect anyone to know your thoughts on an issue ? Zoning officials know how neighborhood associations work and don't assume that majority votes equate to some sort of total absolute agreement. This isn't congress voting on issues that require 2/3 majority in a formal sense and the fact that you are inclined to scrutinize the whole system to such a degree leads me to believe you have something to lose (developer shrill).
Posted on: 2016/5/19 15:13
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Newbie
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Slow down a bit here.
I think people have been ascribing a lot more power (and purpose) to the VNA than it actually has. It wasn't actually trying to make any decisions for the community as a whole. Based on attending the Mar and May VNA mtgs, this is how I see that the situation unfolded: - Tonya (Tanya?) the city planner came to the March VNA meeting to present the proposal for rezoning the R1 area to R5 - In the meeting, she asked for community feedback on her proposal - People had a lot of feedback to give, mainly on the height issue - After listening to the concerns from that meeting, she revised her original proposal and did the north-south split as a concession to those who had raised objections about height That was the proposal that was going to go to the planning board. It's possibly she didn't realize that the feedback from VNA meeting was not actually representative of all the community that was going to be affected by the zoning change- Candice later did, and so she stopped the process so it could be done over properly. I know that not all of the current R1 is in the Village, but a lot is, so probably the city assumed they could get a fair idea of what the community being impacted thought by going to the VNA (I think they also went to the HPNA). The problem is that though the VNA purports to represent the Village, it's actually only representative of the opinions and views of the people who go to the meetings. And we know that a lot of people don't, so their views didn't get heard. A lot people who have been posting in this thread have said they are longtime residents in the village- so what historically has been the role of the VNA in the community? I haven't really had the chance to see them in action myself. What I'm trying to figure out is, what role does the VNA see themselves as having in this community, and given that, how much responsibility does it have to determine and then represent the views of the people in it? I mean, making sure your own voice is heard is one thing -and they were certainly very thorough in that- but making sure you give voice to the people in your community is a separate thing altogether.
Posted on: 2016/5/19 14:43
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Newbie
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And this response speaks volumes so now you speak for all involved in the VNA when did this become a communist neighborhood. How ever much or little someone is involved in an organization in their neighborhood doesn't automatically give that association the right to speak for them or the masses. People do different things in different ways to support their neighborhood. So yes full public knowledge on a decision of this gravity from our ELECTED OFFICIALS is warranted here not a small group who hadn't consulted all that their statements effects prior to making their bold statement
Posted on: 2016/5/19 12:54
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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Behind closed doors as in an open meeting that is advertised and open to the public ?
You onviously are making these claims up. Anyone that is the least bit involved in NA doesnt seem to have these issues.
Posted on: 2016/5/19 2:49
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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Uh, maybe by doing what our councilwoman is doing and truly soliciting feedback from everybody, not trying to ram through a half-assed proposal behind closed doors and not tell anybody about it?
Posted on: 2016/5/19 2:15
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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How else would you gauge sentiment in the neighborhood for certain proposals or developments ?
Posted on: 2016/5/18 23:55
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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Uh oh, only 1 post. This is certainly a developer shill and even if you're not, your opinion is illegitimate anyway (just kidding!). So it would seem we do, more or less, have a self-appointed board setting the agenda and tone of these meetings.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 22:54
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Newbie
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? Then what gives them the right to "speak for everyone" you r correct we are all busy in this life and with that who has the time to or energy to be dismissed or argue with a group that seemingly feels they are the end all and be all of your neighborhood. There are so many who help behind the scenes who volunteer without need for recognition who simply do what they can when they can to help. Our voices are no less significant nor should anyone claim to speak for them. My opinion if your going to claim to speak for the public and you are a formed organization then you need to be transparent and run yourself accordingly. Bravo to all that help out and volunteer in all Jersey City and at the VNA, but just because you do it in a group doesn't make you the boss of the neighborhood and give you the right to boldly speak for the majority when you haven't consulted the majority. Maybe the people of the VNA are overwhelmed maybe they should fall back from some demands and fix what's wrong within the group and address the issues being brought up here. A badly run company makes no money and a poorly run NA alienates the people in its neighborhood. There are a tremendous amount of good people that make up the Village include them don't alienate them.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 22:24
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Newbie
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I have never posted on JClist.com but like to keep up with stuff, as a long time resident of the village where I have lived for over 15 years before it was considered a neighborhood association and really just a block association run by Mr. Lambiase. I have attended many village neighborhood association meetings held by Rob Crow (who by the way is a nice guy). The biggest issue is that two of those meetings were election meetings, however, there were no elections held. You basically say what you want to do and a position is created for you. At the first meeting three years ago, no one was interested to run for a position, but at the last one positions were just created so there would be no election. So I now have a problem with the VNA representing to speak on behalf of the neighbors or us folks who have been here for 15 years and those who have been here for generations like my family. I too have signed this petition which was brought to me by someone who has lived in the village much longer than I have. I absolutely object to the segregation of village south vs. village north and find the request made by the VNA to be offensive. We should all be subject to the same zoning that the historic neighborhood permits. Let's make the village great again! HAHA I hate Trump.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 21:57
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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Will FEMA BFE regulations become part of city code now or in the near future? For example, can I rent out my first floor if it's below BFE? Not amending the R1 designation could have a serious impact on my property value.
Look forward to hearing from Candice.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 21:07
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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If you get enough people to lost an item on the agenda then you can persuade the NA to add items to the list.
Residents still vote on the issues. If you dont do any work and expect the NA to do everything then chances are you will be disappointed.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 17:23
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Just can't stay away
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Last post on this topic until we have finished our letter and mailing (which I will happily post here too)
It is primarily in the Village and portions in Hamilton Park that are not in the historic district. To be clear I have nothing but gratitude for those (which include individuals, both NAs & committee people) who have tried to help find the right answers. That process revealed that we have some controversy. Given the breadth and controversial nature of zoning changes only the city has the resources to make sure it is fully discussed. As I said before it is my responsibility and accountability to make sure the dissemination happens, not the neighborhood association's. They are a volunteer organization. That is why I slowed this down even though our planning department has been working very diligently on this for two years. Ultimately, I think the process is working fine. Ideas were worked on and discussed and have evolved. The process revealed there wasn't full consensus so we broaden the conversation. As far as I am concerned the fact that all of this is happening prior to things going to planning board is very healthy.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 17:21
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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This is nonsense. The officers set the agenda. I remember at a HPNA meeting in the late 90's the president shut down a discussion of dogs runs with the statement "we do not want dog runs". She had 4 dogs. NA's can be great, or run off the rails, depending on their leadership. But most of the time, in my experience, elections are uncontested, a slate is nominated and approved. My experience in volunteer associations is that it becomes a "dictatorship of the most energetic", those willing to devote the most time most likely get their way. That's great if you agree with them, and hard to defeat if you don't and can't devote the time they do. Anyone remember Janet who worked energetically to steer the HP reno to make HP a passive park, finally alienated HPNA, and started her own Park group to do guerilla gardening in the park before having a breakdown and being institutionalized? She was iconic of the type, except she went over top.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 17:09
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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If youve actually been to an NA meeting youd see that decisions are made based on voting of members not just the whims of a few and these decisions may or may not influence zoning and planning.
Presidents and officers decisions do not get weighted more heavily than others.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 16:38
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Just can't stay away
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by Suntime on 2016/5/18 11:56:07 I'm not taking a stand on this issue but I think the above statement is wrong with regard to a neighborhood association's responsibility to its neighborhood. Namely, if a NA is purporting to represent a neighborhood, it is in the direct interest of the NA to be as open as possible to residents, whether or not they actively participate with the association. NAs are not the actual "deciders" when it comes to any individual project or general change in city law or policy. The actual deciders, such as planning board members or council representatives, might take into consideration the position of a NA when making decisions. The amount of weight to give to the position of a NA varies depending on their legitimate representation of the wishes of their entire neighborhood, not just those who attend meetings and actively participate. This is the prime reason some NAs have lapsed into irrelevance: failure to honestly represent the interests of an entire neighborhood in favor of the ideologically-driven agenda of a few. Again, not taking a stand on this issue or the VNA, which has been led by deliberate, thoughtful folks in all of my dealings with them. Just pointing out that demeaning the opinions of less-active or inactive residents can easily lead to a less-representative association and hence, a lessening of the association's influence with the actual "deciders" in our city.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 16:29
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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I call BS. The VNA is claiming, at least in this particular zoning instance, to be the voice of the entire community regarding an issue that has huge implications for people's property values in addition to commercial development which will affect all of downtown. There are ten (10!) "elected" or possibly self-appointed board members (who really knows), it's NOT a huge ask for someone to type up some minutes in a laptop as the meeting's going on and copy/paste into Facebook or a website. Why did a regular attendee have to take on this responsibility? VNA might not be a governmental agency, but has no problem wielding veto power like one when it suits them. If you want to claim this mantle of power, then take on the responsibility that should come with it.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 16:28
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Not too shy to talk
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Dr nick - the vna is a volunteer community group - not a governmental agency with a requirement to provide minutes. These are people from the community getting together, making time out of their own busy lives, to discuss issues in the village community and to be neighborly. Meetings are held at 730pm so that people can get there after work. While it may not be convenient to your particular work schedule, it is the best possible time for most. meetings are announced and all are welcome. If you cant make it to meetings due to your work schedule, find a friend in the community that can and get the scoop from them. Or, go about making your voice heard in other ways by your own advocacy. Either you get involved in your community or you don't. As you know, nobody owes you anything if you arent willing to participate in a meaningful way. It takes time and effort, often unappreciated, to get involved. Its not easy when we all have busy lives with jobs and families. Its not easy for anyone - you are not alone in these time constraints.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 15:56
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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Hi Candice, Thank you so much for your thoughtful consideration of this issue. I think it would help a few of us here if we could get a couple quick questions answered: 1. Does the R1 zone in question fall entirely within "The Village" borders, under the sole boundaries of the VNA, or does it extend outside the VNA zone? The map on their own website covers a very small area: http://www.jcvillage.org/101-2/where-is-the-village/ The official Jersey City zoning map indicates that R1 zoning actually exists far outside the village borders: http://www.cityofjerseycity.com/uploa ... ning%20Map%2020150527.pdf Are you able to clarify if just a small slice of R1 is impacted here or is it all of R1 as seen in the JC zone map? 2. Are the proposed heights inclusive of any flood plain elevation? i.e., you can have up to 44 feet(or whatever the ordinance number was for 4 story) *after* necessary flood plain elevation, so we effectively end up with a 50-something foot tall building? Or is it a hard cap at 44' so if you need 6' for flood plain elevation, well, then you've only got 38' to work with? EDIT: This is essentially a repeat of Brewster's question. I'm also very concerned about the lack of dissemination of information, particularly on the part of the VNA. It's clear in this case that the VNA purported to speak for all residents of the area, when we can see that's hardly the case. In addition, I find the lack of any published meeting minutes so we can find out the outcome of these sorts of meetings very frustrating, also evidenced by this chain. It shouldn't be that an ordinary member in attendance needs to take notes and share with the rest of us when VNA has a website and Facebook page that they never utilize. This makes the decisions going on at these meetings all the more suspect and you can see how this opens the doors to accusations of ramming things through without public input for and for personal gain. Again, thanks for all the work you've done and for stepping in stop a decision that was hardly the collective opinion of area residents.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 15:37
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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Thank you Candice. We look forward to this discussion. I was wondering if you can clarify my concern about the 41 ft limit. Even with a flood zone raise as a freebie, you still can't build 4 floors with 9 ft ceilings in 41 ft and have a roof with the necessary pitch. It seems to me this concession wasn't thought through.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 15:37
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Just can't stay away
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All - I am the person who takes accountability for slowing down the process here. I have had so many people reach out to me purporting to represent the views of the residents. My office will be doing a mailing to those impacted by the proposed changes explaining the various options and asking for feedback. We also will host a community meeting at city hall. These changes will not be considered by planning board (and ultimately city council) until early fall as I want to ensure proper public notice of proposed changes and input into those changes.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 14:54
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Newbie
Joined:
2016/4/29 18:46 Last Login : 2016/10/13 17:28 From Jersey City
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
6
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[quote]"the appropriate forum to air these grievances is either at one of the VNA meetings or a city council meeting."[quote]
Been there, done that and had my ideas poo-pooed upon. Born and raised here. I am 100% legitimate.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 14:37
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Newbie
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Coincidental that's funny stuff, what it is is people who were made aware of a situation that will effect their single biggest investment in most of their lives and want the knowledge to have their say in it. As far as new my family has been a tax base in this city for 6 generations so as I may be new to this site I am not new to Jersey City. I do request that if there is some special course or specific set of rules for replying in this public forum they can be posted. I'm confused about how when LEGITIMATE questions and concerns are brought up its gets twisted into name calling and DELIGITIMIZING THAT PERSONS opinion. As far as I'm concerned no one speaks for me without my say so (like a vote). I love this country, this city and this neighborhood!!! Support the families who live here, support the children's activities that are and should be sponsored here. DONT EVER ALLOW A SMALL GROUP THAT IS NOT DEMOCRATICALLY RUN TO SPEAK FOR YOU!!!
Posted on: 2016/5/18 13:54
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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I think you mean NIMBP's (Not In My Back Porch)
Posted on: 2016/5/18 13:39
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