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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
 
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If the downtown doesn't want R-5, can I have it in the Heights? There are a bunch of buildings around me that should be raised instead of renovated. R-5 (if it is above 44 ft) would work really well up here.
I wish it existed 16 years ago. I would have torn my place down and built a steel framed 4 family. It would have been faster, cheaper, and better construction than having rebuilt my place.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 10:59
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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Good. I think you'll find it a far more productive use of your time than the shilling going on here.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 5:14
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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And who are you to determine what "legitimate" criticism is? Is lack of transparency, meeting minutes or a published agenda any less relevant a point if I or someone else hasn't been posting here for at least 5 years? Why did it take 50-something posts to finally figure out what's really going on with this? So now goalposts move again; when the VNA gets called out on points their own members can't defend, they just deem it "illegitimate". I own a condo, live in this neighborhood and pay taxes just like you. I will be affected by this zoning ordinance just the same as you, so if there's some other qualification needed for my grievance to be legitimate, maybe VNA should publish this criteria on that website they never use. If I'm expected to drag my ass to a meeting to get shouted at by a bunch of protectionist NIMBYs, I think the board of said meeting should meet their end of the bargain and publish an agenda and meeting minutes. And you're damn right I'll be contacting city hall over this issue.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 5:02
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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I don't care about your identity. I care about distinguishing between legitimate and illegitimate criticism. The flood of new posters all of one single mind indicates illegitimate criticism. And, as I've said, even if there is legitimate criticism here (such as the comments from the long time posters), the appropriate forum to air these grievances is either at one of the VNA meetings or a city council meeting.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 4:38
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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What's the brown zoning portion? It's cut off on your portion
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Posted on: 2016/5/18 4:10
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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For the record, I have no problem revealing my identity and sending a LinkedIn if you wish to direct message me, since a lot of the criticism here is coming from me. I was a recently a victim of identity theft, so I'm reluctant to put my personal information on a public forum. I'm also taking a very politically unpopular position, so being that anybody could look up my address there's also added risk. I should note that there is also a lot of criticism coming from long time posters on this forum as well, so you can't attribute it to one disgruntled "troll".
Posted on: 2016/5/18 4:09
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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Exactly. These "people" may just be a handful of trolls (or just one) who have multiple accounts seeking to create the false perception that many are on their side. This is why there is no substitute for showing up in person.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 3:23
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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That's funny - NIMBYs so against change, they'd rather play whack-a-mole with variances and wind up with 6-7 story buildings than agree to a reasonable rezoning plan. They'll get what they deserve. If it does turn out VNA tried to make a decision affecting people outside their borders (I may even fall into this area, I need to see the full zoning map), they've earned every criticism thrown at them in this thread and more. All the people accusing anybody critical of the VNA as having some pro-devleoper agenda haven't been able to respond to the lack of transparency behind this whole issue. Why on earth does an attendee have to takes notes at meetings and publish them? What kind of organization has no recorded minutes and publishes them, especially on issues that affect such a large number of people? I will be writing to my rightfully elected representatives and letting them know that this lack of transparency and organization is utterly disturbing.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 2:49
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Newbie
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As I understand, the flood requirement is not included in the 44ft limit. That's why people were up in arms over it at the March meeting, and wanting the lower 3-story limit; they were saying that builders would build 4 floors up to the max 44ft they were allowed to build to, on top of the 6/9ft flood requirement, making the total height between 50-53ft, thus choking the narrow streets and blocking the sunlight and whatnot. And if they were mistaken in that impression, well, nobody was correcting them.
To be honest, I'm a bit sympathetic to that argument as I live south of Newark, and our streets are narrow. But even then I don't think keeping the R-1 zoning is a good idea. I think having more ground level retail in the area would make it much more attractive and lively and, well, nice. And we would need increased density to support that. Not to say that VNA attendees are representative of the neighborhood as a whole, but when they did an informal poll at the Thurs mtg an awful lot of people raised their hands in support of keeping the Village at R-1 (barely any for the 4-story option, and a smattering for the 3-story). Even Candice seemed taken aback for a few seconds, before she cheerfully reminded all assembled that our show of hands would not impact her decision, which would be determined by the comments received once formal notice was out to the community. I have no idea if the people living in the R-1 zoned area outside the Village on brewster's map will be included in the mailing though, although you guys really should be.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 2:20
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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Its very coincidental all these new people with very few posts adamantly opposed to the VNA and keeping existing R1 zoning.
The VNA like the Harsimus Cove NA or Ham Park have mostly lived in the area and been involved in the community for a long time with nothing to gain monetarily. Only someone with a strong agenda they want to pass makes such absurd comments about them being cultish all inclusive undemocratic group.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 1:39
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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I was just going over the proposal and I don't understand the reasoning behind the "4 Stories, 41 feet", especially as when it's combined with the 9' ceiling height requirement it essentially dictates that a builder cannot raise the ground floor above flood level, even though flood is designated as one of the factors driving the plan. Plus even a flat roof needs a few more feet for pitch.
This as written basically says to do 4 floors you need to have a below grade garden level! Aren't we trying to go away from that? Or was this a back door way of insuring no actual 4 floor buildings? Did no architect consult on this? The old proposal of 45' was a bare minimum, 47 or 50' height with 4 floors is a better plan.
Posted on: 2016/5/18 0:57
Edited by brewster on 2016/5/18 1:26:55
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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OK, I'm starting to get a little pissed about this. According to the map below, about 1/3 of the Downtown R-1 is NOT in "The Village", according to the map on their page which shows it's northern borders at 6th and eastern at Coles. I happen to live in that northern area.
So these asshats are not just speaking for the "Village" residents, they're speaking for people who aren't even invited to their little meetings!! That's immensely obnoxious. BTW, does anyone actually know what the zoning "Neighborhood Commercial" (pink) means? 
Posted on: 2016/5/18 0:09
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Newbie
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brewster and nick, I would welcome someone to reach out to Candice and confirm this, but that question actually came up during the rezoning Q&A. Someone asked something along the lines of, what about the rest of downtown? it can't just be us dealing with this and she basically said, nope you're the only ones [R1 zoned area] left [in downtown]; everyone else "is either historical, or part of a redevelopment plan." There was something of a collective shudder- of I'm not sure, relief? At having dodged being part of a redevelopment plan? which apparently opens you up to ten story buildings and a parade of developers or something?- and that's the last I remember of that.
dcmot, i'm afraid I can't really help you with that- like I said I'm new and this meeting was only my second. Though I actually was in the March meeting that was the impetus for split proposal for zoning but that was my first neighborhood-civic-governance thing ever and me not having yet decided to keep a record of it, I can only work off memory. From what I do remember though, Tonya the planner was there at the March VNA meeting, and presented her proposal to rezone the area from R1 to R5. I note that her initial proposal was actually for the whole thing to be 44 ft/4 story. But there was a lot lot of pushback at that meeting from people (I'm guessing who live south of Newark) who were really focused on the height issue. I believe the main theme of the naysayers was that due to the flood zone building requirements in the Village, any new building's ground floor has to be 6ft above, even 9ft in some areas, and people were saying that if you put the four stories in Tonya's proposal in on top of the flood requirements, you'd be going well over 50ft, and the Village streets are on the narrow side in the first place, and sunlight (we're familiar with that argument, I won't rehash it). So I do think it was based on the, shall we say, somewhat vehement feedback from that meeting that the 31ft-3story-southside split originated. I wish I could tell you guys if there was any follow-up to that in the April mtg before last week's May mtg (it was around that time that Candice froze the proposal), but I was out of town for work and of course nobody took minutes, so I have no idea what went down. That was about the point I went f*** it, I want to be able to remember what happens at these damn things, I'll have to write it down myself. ETA: oneIP, Candice said that the mailing will include a tel #, to her directly or to the council office, so that people without internet access can still contact her.
Posted on: 2016/5/17 23:25
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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Might be best to just email Candice with this question, you're unlikely to get an accurate answer here. Let me know if you do, or I can and post her reply. Also, if what you're saying is correct, that makes the VNA's decision and secrecy around this issue even more egregious as this would cover areas not under their rule.
Posted on: 2016/5/17 22:02
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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Can something else be clarified? I thought this rezoning was going to apply to all downtown R-1, not just to "the Village", which is not actually an administrative entity. Someone pointed out a while ago when this was 1st brought up that the majority of Downtown R-1 was in the village, but by no means is all of it.
Posted on: 2016/5/17 21:52
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Newbie
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Wow I didn't believe any was doing the minutes but being someone has can you please provide the thread with minutes from the last meeting there was an election as well as the meeting when Tonya from planning presented her plan for the village and that then it was voted on and brought to the residents for their consensus before the VNA spoke for all of us. Thanks it will clear alot up here.
Posted on: 2016/5/17 21:19
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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Thank you so much, ILRie. All the confusion and angst in this thread could have been nipped early on if the VNA bothered updating their damn website or Facebook with any of this. This sounds like a solid plan and many props to Candice for realizing so little input had been collected when they tried to ram through this nonsense and borderline discriminatory north/south plan.
I wonder why the VNA members accusing everybody here of being a developer troll couldn't just state this was the plan going forward. Perhaps they're afraid of awful option number 3 being the popular consensus and want to bury this as much as possible.
Posted on: 2016/5/17 21:17
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Newbie
Joined:
2016/4/29 18:46 Last Login : 2016/10/13 17:28 From Jersey City
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Thank you for sharing your notes from the last VNA meeting. They are very helpful and informational and cast a very different light than what is circulating.
I will be waiting for the ballots to cast my vote. Candice, if you are reading this, will you also canvas the elderly and shut-ins in the neighborhood? Many are afraid to voice their opinions or do not have Internet access or own computers or know how to use a computer. I have first hand knowledge that us old timers are really upset about what is going on in the Italian Village where we grew up. We were proud. it use to be beautiful filled with hard workers and good families. Now look at it. The streets are a mess, there are wires hanging from buildings and on the ground, nails all in the street, dumpsters sitting around for months and months, dust everywhere, vermin and other pests, rude construction workers they piss everywhere and play their loud music, etc. etc. You should take a visit and see for yourself. Also, there is no where to park our cars. I'm not trying to run this in the ground but we are old and sometimes we have to park in the back by the school and park at night where it's dark. It's spooky back there. It's not even worth the risk to going out anymore.
Posted on: 2016/5/17 21:06
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Newbie
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Hey all
I was at the VNA meet (does that make me a member?) last Thurs and jotted down some notes from the goings-on. Disclaimer: I'm a new arrival in the village- it was, what, my second mtg?- so I'm not really aware of what the normal dynamic is, or what sort neighborhood politicking was going on, if there was. Meeting started with the usual community updates, not much to tell. Then a presentation about development at 371 4th St- currently 3 level 2 family house (ground level garage + two floors above). Plan is to keep it at 3 level 2 family: top two floors will be apartments (both planned as 3bd/2ba units) and ground level becomes a restaurant or some other kind of retail to replace the garage. Seeking a use variance for the ground floor. Then they introduced Councilwoman Osborne as guest speaker and let her take questions. Getting the nonzoning issues out of the way first, we had people asking bout the lead situation, something something about repaving roads, and complaints about traffic (@ the corner of Newark n 3rd, and the Monmouth + Columbus intersection in particular). Finally the zoning discussion. Started off with background, presumably for newbies like me: the VNA/council office/planning dept has been discussing change to Village zoning for the last one and a half years etc etc, based on feedback from the Mar VNA meeting, the proposal that HAD been slated to go to the planning board was: 44 ft/4 stories/4 units north of Newark, and 31 ft/3 stories/3 units south of Newark. Candice said that in the week or so runup to the planning board meeting she started hearing a lot of chatter from the community; as she then told us, she realized from the volume and general tenor of the chatter that they had not, in fact, heard all the concerns of the community like she thought they had been doing (from what I see on this thread I can see how someone who was mainly looking for zoning feedback at VNA venues might be initially blindsided by the fact that plenty of people who DON'T participate in VNA stuff might nonetheless have opinions about zoning), and so she chose to delay presenting the proposal to the planning board in order to go through a more formal process. So to dr_nick_riviera's question about who "made the decision to break apart the re-zoning", as far as I can remember and from what I'm seeing in my notes, it sounds like feedback from the people at the VNA meetings was the reason for the N-S split in the zoning proposal. And as for whoever STOPPED the proposal from reaching the planning board (because why do anything quick when you could drag it out for months) this time around, Candice/the council office was explicitly taking responsibility for that. Anyway, Candice says this is the plan going forward: sometime in the next month or so, the council office will sending a formal mailing to all Village residents to solicit feedback on the rezoning of the Village. The mailing will include a link to an online survey and online comment box, and a telephone # for the non-technologically inclined to call in w/ their comments. Most importantly, the mailing WILL LIST THESE THREE (3) OPTIONS: Opt 1) Zoning stays as is- R1 Opt 2) Rezone ALL Village to 31 ft/3 stories/3units Opt 3) Rezone ALL Village to 44 ft/4 stories/4 units. The office will accept feedback from all: Village homeowners, Village renters, downtown ppl, ppl from neighborhoods far away, hell, people from wherever. But only Village residents will get the physical mailing. They'll tally the results and compile all the feedback and come up with a proposal. Apparently there's a way to figure out exactly where the comments are coming from? So if they see that tons of north-of-Newark ppl are in favor of Opt 3 but tons of south-of-Newark ppl want Opt 2 or whatever, the old split proposal might be resurrected. It'll all be based on the feedback they get. Also included in the mailing will be a date & place for a communitywide meeting for the express purpose of discussing the zoning situation, which will have people from the planning board (I think planners? "Subject matter experts", whatever) to answer in-depth questions about anything from height maximums to the regulations governing curb cuts. I assume the ultimate proposal the council office comes up with will also be discussed (or torn to pieces, if you prefer) in this community meeting, before it finally goes to the planning board, which Candice estimated to be sometime in the early fall. And there was some more talk and some more grumbling and brief tangents about Whole Foods and grumbling about the reval (so much grumbling dear god) and eventually it got late enough that the mtg organizers decided to skip the closed forum and we all went home.
Posted on: 2016/5/17 20:47
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Newbie
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Danl you might want to do some more research before you speak on the VNA
VNA does not hold elections does not take record of their meetings and most importantly doesn't speak for everyone in the village. This word troll keeps popping up and quite funny how it becomes an insult game instead of a fact and information finding forum. Why can't we disagree with valid points without being called names? Show and tell have your opinion and prove your facts. Name calling is only away of distracting from your own personal inadequacy. DanL wrote: no, it you that are smearing people, making unsubstantiated accusations. you act like a troll and a shill. I have never attended a neighborhood association here in JC that did not have by-laws and hold elections for officers. no one is stopping you from doing what neighborhood associations do - organize, learn, research, write letters to the city and newspapers, attend and speak at city meetings, zoning and planning board meetings, attend and speak at city council. if one does not "like" them or agree with their positions, one is not bound to anything, speak up yourself. they do not approve ordinances or plans or enforce laws. they are not un-elected people making decisions for the whole community, they represent themselves. unless they have been appointed by an elected mayor and confirmed by an elected city council to serve on a city board or commission and the ultimate decisions are then approved by the elected city council and signed by an elected mayor. to participate in a democracy, you have to show up. and lastly, I am not part of VNA, but am more than happy to meet with you to discuss further or you can also reach out to me via Linked In, my name is in my profile. Quote:
Posted on: 2016/5/17 19:48
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
Joined:
2004/2/6 23:13 Last Login : 2021/7/30 1:08 From Jersey City
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1225
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no, it you that are smearing people, making unsubstantiated accusations.
you act like a troll and a shill. I have never attended a neighborhood association here in JC that did not have by-laws and hold elections for officers. no one is stopping you from doing what neighborhood associations do - organize, learn, research, write letters to the city and newspapers, attend and speak at city meetings, zoning and planning board meetings, attend and speak at city council. if one does not "like" them or agree with their positions, one is not bound to anything, speak up yourself. they do not approve ordinances or plans or enforce laws. they are not un-elected people making decisions for the whole community, they represent themselves. unless they have been appointed by an elected mayor and confirmed by an elected city council to serve on a city board or commission and the ultimate decisions are then approved by the elected city council and signed by an elected mayor. to participate in a democracy, you have to show up. and lastly, I am not part of VNA, but am more than happy to meet with you to discuss further or you can also reach out to me via Linked In, my name is in my profile. Quote:
Posted on: 2016/5/17 19:14
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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I have no association with developers at all, I'll personally send you my LinkedIn if you want. And why are you maligning people that may be upset over a small group of sanctimonious, unelected people making decisions that are affecting property values for an entire community? Nice move trying to smear anyone who dares disagree as some shill of developers. Maybe some of don't want the entirety of downtown to remain boarded up store fronts and nail salons. I can throw this right back at you and accuse you of being one of the people north of Newark who *will* benefit from a property value jump because of this. I work till 7:30 most nights, not including the time it takes for me to get home. As another poster said, there's NO agenda and NO meeting minutes posted on the VNA website. I'd like to say I'm really surprised more people south of Newark aren't up in arms over this, but then again, the VNA seems to be doing a very good job keeping things as non-transparent as possible. And honestly, you act like everybody attending these meetings is some pillar-of-the-community type dedicating hours of their time for grassroots efforts. From what I've observed, it's mostly old people who show up for an hour to bitch about their free parking and disappear.
Posted on: 2016/5/17 18:33
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Not too shy to talk
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Dr. Nick Rivera, why dont you attend a vna meeting? These are people volunteering their time in an effort to help the community. Why don't you stop maligning them and actually do something to help the community instead, since you seem to care so much? Why is all of your vitriol saved for members of the community, while seemingly unconditional support for developers? Do you have some association with the developers that you are not disclosing on this forum?
Posted on: 2016/5/17 18:00
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Newbie
Joined:
2016/4/29 18:46 Last Login : 2016/10/13 17:28 From Jersey City
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What makes you think that we haven't been to those meetings to voice our opinions? They do nothin. This is the next place I know to raise my concern about the Village. I was born and raised here 67 years ago. This is my home. I guess I'm one of those unmanly complainers who is also remains totally invisible to the VNA.
Posted on: 2016/5/17 17:47
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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And you think someone on the VNA or any NA board will give a shit if I do "man up", show up and disagree with what they're doing? An unelected board is gaming the system for their own personal gain, nothing will stop them. This would be such a disgusting conflict of interest if an actual elected official attempted something like this. Do you go around saying the same thing to anybody who signs a petition?
Posted on: 2016/5/17 17:31
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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Do you think anyone will give a shit if you call them and tell them a bunch of posters on an anonymous message board don't like what the VNA is doing? If you feel so strongly about this, man up and go to the relevant meetings in person and state your concerns.
Posted on: 2016/5/17 16:42
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
Joined:
2004/2/6 23:13 Last Login : 2021/7/30 1:08 From Jersey City
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Registered Users
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1225
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if you have an opinion or concern, stand up (and say who you are.) those who get involved, and invest time and effort in their community do. Quote:
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Posted on: 2016/5/17 15:51
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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Again, the timing of any change in zoning right now before this coming Reval, seems very suspect! Any change to zoning should not be rushed through - whether pro-VNA or pro-Developer positions.
Posted on: 2016/5/17 15:41
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Home away from home
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So who on the VNA made the decision to break apart the re-zoning? It sounds like the majority of people in this thread are opposed to this - which individual gets contacted with everybody's thoughts?
Posted on: 2016/5/17 15:21
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Re: The Village has Gone Crazy - R5 zoning but not in my backyard
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Newbie
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The NA's are like a highschool clique that is exclusive, mean and just plain out bullies. It's is not only difficult for new people but also for old timers to have their opinions validated. What are they doing how do they run. VNA is all appointed with no elections seemingly no rhyme or reason to their meeting dates. Agenda for current meeting isn't posted til the day prior to the meeting. It's not a democratic organization. No one records the meetings yet they can say they speak for the whole neighborhood which they don't. Yes have there been good things that they have done absolutely, have they been a part of a quality of life improvement that was inevitable by gentrification yes, have they organized some clean up days sure have they over stepped their bounds by trying to limit the value of my property and pushing an agenda that by all accounts wasn't the consensus in the public meeting but came after in private with a broad statement that they speak for the neighborhood dam right. If you claim to speak for everyone then give everyone a recorded voice, if you claim to know better then show all your credentials and prove it. If you want to put out opinions for the masses then be a true organization with proper set meetings, minutes of those meetings that can be reviewed and proper notification so people can plan accordingly to attend. NA's should support their communities not rule them. They should value their neighbors not force opinions down their throats. They should work with city government and elected officials not hold elections over their heads to push agendas. Openness, honesty and pure love for their neighborhood should be the only motivation. Fairness and transparency should run the NA's engine. As in life when most of us were growing up our parents taught us to respect our elders and the same should be true for these guys. We have generations of families here who have been part of the driving force to bringing this city back to life, respect them and the sacrifices they made thru life to make this a desirable area!!!!
Posted on: 2016/5/17 13:21
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