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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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Were you in school with me when I also took business courses, Pebble? I did not know what I would eventually study and took a number of business courses. This is what I mean about people like you, You think you know it all. I was there in the 1960s, I knew Morris Pesin and he told me about his store and I studied at more than on college as an undergraduate.

Posted on: 2016/2/15 21:28
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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Yvonne wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
Sorry, Pebble, you make statements without facts, I remember when those stores close after the parking lot was taken away. One business was the clothing store that Morris Pesin had.

Your ability to understand cause and effect is already null. Claiming that stores closed because parking was gone is absurd. Either provide factual evidence or recognize that you really just don't know a damn thing about urban development despite your repeated attempts at sticking your nose in it.

There are books you can read and studies that have been done on this. I don't expect you to follow up and learn because evidence and facts are of no interest to you.


Pebble, were you alive in the 1960s? That is when JC sold that parking lot. I remember the area. It was before malls and internet shopping. People got into their cars and shopped in certain locations. Then there was parking lots all over the shopping district.


Sigh... you really have no clue. Look up the expression "Post hoc ergo propter hoc". It's latin, and it is used to describe the logical fallacy to which you seem to succumb often times.

I will give you a hint: just because something happened after a given event, it does not mean it happened because of that event.

In other words, just because the stores went out of business after the parking lots were gone, it does not mean that the parking lots going away caused the demise of those stores. It is a well documented fact that shopping areas in urban cores disappeared over time as people moved away to the suburbs, the rise and dominance of suburban malls, and many more factors conspired to essentially put an end to so many of the shopping areas in urban cities.


So you were also not alive in the 1960s but you are giving out advice how things happened. I know because I saw the commerce and I saw what happened afterwards. I also spoke to owners who closed their businesses including Morris Pesin.

You are not an economist. You are didn't study business. You didn't work in either field. Yet, somehow, you like to claim that you have a deep understanding of cause and effect simply because you were alive during a certain period of time.

I hate to break it to you, but being alive when something happened doesn't mean you have actual knowledge of the events that occurred. It only means that you are old which isn't a crime but isn't something that always brings knoweldge. Considering the continually proven fact that you don't know a single thing about business, cause-and-effect or, well, just about anything you talk about your opinion amounts to shouting from a know-nothing.

Posted on: 2016/2/15 16:23
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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bodhipooh wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
Sorry, Pebble, you make statements without facts, I remember when those stores close after the parking lot was taken away. One business was the clothing store that Morris Pesin had.

Your ability to understand cause and effect is already null. Claiming that stores closed because parking was gone is absurd. Either provide factual evidence or recognize that you really just don't know a damn thing about urban development despite your repeated attempts at sticking your nose in it.

There are books you can read and studies that have been done on this. I don't expect you to follow up and learn because evidence and facts are of no interest to you.


Pebble, were you alive in the 1960s? That is when JC sold that parking lot. I remember the area. It was before malls and internet shopping. People got into their cars and shopped in certain locations. Then there was parking lots all over the shopping district.


Sigh... you really have no clue. Look up the expression "Post hoc ergo propter hoc". It's latin, and it is used to describe the logical fallacy to which you seem to succumb often times.

I will give you a hint: just because something happened after a given event, it does not mean it happened because of that event.

In other words, just because the stores went out of business after the parking lots were gone, it does not mean that the parking lots going away caused the demise of those stores. It is a well documented fact that shopping areas in urban cores disappeared over time as people moved away to the suburbs, the rise and dominance of suburban malls, and many more factors conspired to essentially put an end to so many of the shopping areas in urban cities.


So you were also not alive in the 1960s but you are giving out advice how things happened. I know because I saw the commerce and I saw what happened afterwards. I also spoke to owners who closed their businesses including Morris Pesin.

Posted on: 2016/2/13 15:13
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Sorry, Pebble, you make statements without facts, I remember when those stores close after the parking lot was taken away. One business was the clothing store that Morris Pesin had.

Your ability to understand cause and effect is already null. Claiming that stores closed because parking was gone is absurd. Either provide factual evidence or recognize that you really just don't know a damn thing about urban development despite your repeated attempts at sticking your nose in it.

There are books you can read and studies that have been done on this. I don't expect you to follow up and learn because evidence and facts are of no interest to you.


Pebble, were you alive in the 1960s? That is when JC sold that parking lot. I remember the area. It was before malls and internet shopping. People got into their cars and shopped in certain locations. Then there was parking lots all over the shopping district.


Sigh... you really have no clue. Look up the expression "Post hoc ergo propter hoc". It's latin, and it is used to describe the logical fallacy to which you seem to succumb often times.

I will give you a hint: just because something happened after a given event, it does not mean it happened because of that event.

In other words, just because the stores went out of business after the parking lots were gone, it does not mean that the parking lots going away caused the demise of those stores. It is a well documented fact that shopping areas in urban cores disappeared over time as people moved away to the suburbs, the rise and dominance of suburban malls, and many more factors conspired to essentially put an end to so many of the shopping areas in urban cities.

Posted on: 2016/2/12 16:12
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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Pebble wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Sorry, Pebble, you make statements without facts, I remember when those stores close after the parking lot was taken away. One business was the clothing store that Morris Pesin had.

Your ability to understand cause and effect is already null. Claiming that stores closed because parking was gone is absurd. Either provide factual evidence or recognize that you really just don't know a damn thing about urban development despite your repeated attempts at sticking your nose in it.

There are books you can read and studies that have been done on this. I don't expect you to follow up and learn because evidence and facts are of no interest to you.


Pebble, were you alive in the 1960s? That is when JC sold that parking lot. I remember the area. It was before malls and internet shopping. People got into their cars and shopped in certain locations. Then there was parking lots all over the shopping district.

Posted on: 2016/2/12 15:49
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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Yvonne wrote:
Sorry, Pebble, you make statements without facts, I remember when those stores close after the parking lot was taken away. One business was the clothing store that Morris Pesin had.

Your ability to understand cause and effect is already null. Claiming that stores closed because parking was gone is absurd. Either provide factual evidence or recognize that you really just don't know a damn thing about urban development despite your repeated attempts at sticking your nose in it.

There are books you can read and studies that have been done on this. I don't expect you to follow up and learn because evidence and facts are of no interest to you.

Posted on: 2016/2/12 15:40
Dos A Cero
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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Sorry, Pebble, you make statements without facts, I remember when those stores close after the parking lot was taken away. One business was the clothing store that Morris Pesin had.

Posted on: 2016/2/12 15:33
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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light12v wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
Another give away by this administration. Developers are coming into JC and buying up properties all over this city. There is no need for this.

Is this the Kushner project that will replace the Bergen Ave Parking Lot across from Wonder Bagels?


Yes, and I am against the city taking away another parking lot. Years ago, that area was vibrant with shoppers. Another vacant lot was brought by the Archdiocese of Newark to create Hudson Catholic High School, I am a great supporter of Catholic Schools, but the lost of that lot cause shoppers to go elsewhere and that area went downhill. If you want commerce to return, you need parking lots. The Coach House and Brownstone Diners are successful restaurants because they offer parking. I don't buy the hype everyone uses bikes.

Nope... Doesn't matter that facts prove the opposite. You simply won't believe it.

It really is a wonder how anyone ever let you educate their child on any topic...

Posted on: 2016/2/12 15:31
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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Yvonne wrote:
Another give away by this administration. Developers are coming into JC and buying up properties all over this city. There is no need for this.

Is this the Kushner project that will replace the Bergen Ave Parking Lot across from Wonder Bagels?


Yes, and I am against the city taking away another parking lot. Years ago, that area was vibrant with shoppers. Another vacant lot was brought by the Archdiocese of Newark to create Hudson Catholic High School, I am a great supporter of Catholic Schools, but the lost of that lot cause shoppers to go elsewhere and that area went downhill. If you want commerce to return, you need parking lots. The Coach House and Brownstone Diners are successful restaurants because they offer parking. I don't buy the hype everyone uses bikes.

Posted on: 2016/2/12 15:26
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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Yvonne wrote:
Another give away by this administration. Developers are coming into JC and buying up properties all over this city. There is no need for this.

Is this the Kushner project that will replace the Bergen Ave Parking Lot across from Wonder Bagels?

Posted on: 2016/2/12 13:27
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
It's common knowledge that most of the silicon valley corporations don't pay any salary tax ... Are there any JC developers or corporations getting a similar deal (salary tax abatements) to operate out of JC ?


Corporations don't pay salary taxes. Individual employees pay that. Corps pay corporation income tax. Think you are referring the independent contractor (IC) issue - which was more about employee benefits than local and state taxation. The practice of hiring ICs is dying in silicon valley and other businesses based on a ruling against Microsoft in 2000. ICs could operate as sub-contracting corporation and pay their own corporation taxes on revenue from their "employer" and personal income taxes on direct "salary" withdrawn from their corporation. So for example, Microsoft could pay the IC $100k. The IC would pay corp income taxes on that $100k, then pay themselves $20k for living expenses plus personal taxes - and use the $80k balance to build their own wealth.

There is a separate, but more important issue of corporations attributing their corp income to other state or overseas jurisdictions and assigning little to no taxes to NJ.

Your question hits the right theme though. And Bill O'Dea voiced something similar on Goya. There needs to be a true standardized cost-benefit analysis within NJ before allowing local tax breaks to developers or corps. And that needs to be fully transparent to the public and the process mandated in NJ state law. Developers, corps, and politicians are simply gaming a fragmented system at the moment.

Posted on: 2016/2/12 12:56

Edited by dtjcview on 2016/2/12 13:15:13
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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It's common knowledge that most of the silicon valley corporations don't pay any salary tax ... Are there any JC developers or corporations getting a similar deal (salary tax abatements) to operate out of JC ?

Posted on: 2016/2/12 1:31
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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MDM wrote:
Don't forget the 8 ft setbacks (5 one side, 3 on the other).


I believe they've rolled that one back, I've seen a number of infills constructed right to the property line. It caught my eye because they were putting cinder block all the way to the roof on the abutting side, since you can't put vinyl siding there.

Posted on: 2016/2/11 22:34
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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Wishful_Thinking wrote:
I still wonder that buildings with potential Manhattan views have been abandoned for the entire 7 years I've lived there!


You speak the truth... it is (almost) baffling that the Heights has floundered for so long. The only sensical explanation is its relative lack of transportation options. Proponents of the area are quick to point out the existence of jitneys, but lots of people are afraid or leery of those vans. In that regard, I feel that the rise of Uber and Lyft could help spur development in areas such as the Heights as people find it easier to get around, and to other areas, without owning a car.


I am quoting some members of the council and their statements at caucus meetings. And I do know developers are buying up tax liens and sheriff sales. You can view the council comments on the city's website.

Posted on: 2016/2/11 22:12
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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As we've said in other threads, a lot of the problem is the universal R-1 zoning restricting development to 2 units less than 35 ft. It's sad that 50 x 100 double lots that could hold something far denser get 2 cookie cutter pink brick monsters.

Quote:

Wishful_Thinking wrote:
I'm curious why this development needed a 30 year abatement, and the new development in the Heights on Laidlaw and Oakland Avenues only received a 12 year abatement. The Heights is in dire need of larger scale development, hopefully the new residents providing the critical mass to support new businesses and transit improvements.

I think Jersey City needs more development overall, and absolutely the administration should encourage this with tax abatements if necessary. DTJC may be experiencing a lot of development, but neighborhoods like the Heights are largely fallow, with so many good sites wasted. I still wonder that buildings with potential Manhattan views have been abandoned for the entire 7 years I've lived there!


Good luck getting that changed because, you know... parking!

Posted on: 2016/2/11 21:13
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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Don't forget the 8 ft setbacks (5 one side, 3 on the other). Years ago I tried doing a layout to build on a lot. I kept ending up with the pink bricked monster with the squat roof.

A town home style with a common fire wall on one side would utilize the lot space so much better.



Quote:

brewster wrote:
As we've said in other threads, a lot of the problem is the universal R-1 zoning restricting development to 2 units less than 35 ft. It's sad that 50 x 100 double lots that could hold something far denser get 2 cookie cutter pink brick monsters.

Quote:

Wishful_Thinking wrote:
I'm curious why this development needed a 30 year abatement, and the new development in the Heights on Laidlaw and Oakland Avenues only received a 12 year abatement. The Heights is in dire need of larger scale development, hopefully the new residents providing the critical mass to support new businesses and transit improvements.

I think Jersey City needs more development overall, and absolutely the administration should encourage this with tax abatements if necessary. DTJC may be experiencing a lot of development, but neighborhoods like the Heights are largely fallow, with so many good sites wasted. I still wonder that buildings with potential Manhattan views have been abandoned for the entire 7 years I've lived there!

Posted on: 2016/2/11 21:04
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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As we've said in other threads, a lot of the problem is the universal R-1 zoning restricting development to 2 units less than 35 ft. It's sad that 50 x 100 double lots that could hold something far denser get 2 cookie cutter pink brick monsters.

Quote:

Wishful_Thinking wrote:
I'm curious why this development needed a 30 year abatement, and the new development in the Heights on Laidlaw and Oakland Avenues only received a 12 year abatement. The Heights is in dire need of larger scale development, hopefully the new residents providing the critical mass to support new businesses and transit improvements.

I think Jersey City needs more development overall, and absolutely the administration should encourage this with tax abatements if necessary. DTJC may be experiencing a lot of development, but neighborhoods like the Heights are largely fallow, with so many good sites wasted. I still wonder that buildings with potential Manhattan views have been abandoned for the entire 7 years I've lived there!

Posted on: 2016/2/11 20:55
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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The rate that the project at Oakland and Laidlaw is going, it might take 12 years for them to finish it. Sometimes they have as little as two guys working on the entire project.

I think they are having cash flow problems.

Posted on: 2016/2/11 20:45
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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Wishful_Thinking wrote:
I still wonder that buildings with potential Manhattan views have been abandoned for the entire 7 years I've lived there!


You speak the truth... it is (almost) baffling that the Heights has floundered for so long. The only sensical explanation is its relative lack of transportation options. Proponents of the area are quick to point out the existence of jitneys, but lots of people are afraid or leery of those vans. In that regard, I feel that the rise of Uber and Lyft could help spur development in areas such as the Heights as people find it easier to get around, and to other areas, without owning a car.

Posted on: 2016/2/11 20:15
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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I'm curious why this development needed a 30 year abatement, and the new development in the Heights on Laidlaw and Oakland Avenues only received a 12 year abatement. The Heights is in dire need of larger scale development, hopefully the new residents providing the critical mass to support new businesses and transit improvements.

I think Jersey City needs more development overall, and absolutely the administration should encourage this with tax abatements if necessary. DTJC may be experiencing a lot of development, but neighborhoods like the Heights are largely fallow, with so many good sites wasted. I still wonder that buildings with potential Manhattan views have been abandoned for the entire 7 years I've lived there!

Posted on: 2016/2/11 17:37
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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Yvonne wrote:
Another give away by this administration. Developers are coming into JC and buying up properties all over this city. There is no need for this.

Really...? They are buying up all over this city?

Continuing to fight against development in an area that you don't live in... Real stand up person...

Posted on: 2016/2/11 15:57
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Re: Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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Another give away by this administration. Developers are coming into JC and buying up properties all over this city. There is no need for this.

Posted on: 2016/2/11 15:45
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Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building
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Jersey City Council approves 30-year tax exemption for 5-story Ward F building

The Jersey City Council approved a 30-year tax abatement for Bergen Avenue Urban Renewal LLC, a 5-story project to be constructed at 280 Fairmount Ave. in Ward F.

-

The final vote was 6-3 with Ward C Councilman Richard Boggiano, Ward D Councilman Yun and Councilman-at-Large Daniel Rivera voting against the abatement.

Read more:  http://hudsoncountyview.com/jersey-ci ... -5-story-ward-f-building/


Posted on: 2016/2/11 15:32
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