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'Earned all the hate'? Really, Pebble? We've never had confirmation on any level (other than Prieto and other Democrats claiming) that he insisted on the wording to be added to the bill that was written and voted on by 99% of the Democrats in the Legislature and opposed by 100% of the Republicans. Now, and I've said this before, Christie should've vetoed it. But Christie knows that in all likelihood the next Gov will be a Democrat, and that Gov will be in charge of figuring out where to dole out the LSP goodies when it comes to development. So why would he do it?
Look no further than a few miles west, to see what Essex County Exec Joe D has done to the Olmstead Brothers designed gem (the South Mountain Reservation) to see what will likely happen to LSP. Wild Africa miniature golf! Swan boats on the water! A giant restaurant, given in a sweetheart deal to a political crony (McLoone's). But the real evil and insult is listening to Fulop et al (and Mr. Pesin) getting their panties in a twist over this, while ignoring the much bigger threat to LSP-a 200 acre casino complex inches away from LSP.
Posted on: 2016/1/22 18:48
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I agree with the vast majority of this. Logically, it makes little sense to say ?not here, but if you move it 20 feet, it?s ok there.? But I do see the differences. Building on JC land would mean that the revenue would flow into Jersey City, with tax dollars going to the state. Building inside the park would mean that the revenue would go solely to the state while the maintenance of the roads leading to the park, the public works leading to the casino, etc would be left to the city to support. Given all of this, yeah, they?re all telling their own story for different reasons. Fulop wants the development dollars for a state run. Sweeney is just a scumbag. Christie wants more privatization of public land. I don?t want a casino in Jersey City, period. But if they are going to cram one in, they need it to be outside the actual park. Quote:
Christie has earned all the hate that he receives. While the bill was put forward by the Democrats, Christie made a special request to the bill in order for redevelopment in Liberty State Park to be developed. Christie also had the option of vetoing the bill, which he chose not to do (mostly because he asked for the inclusion, so why would he veto it). Lastly, he?s the governor! All this talk about taking ownership and standing up for what he believes and now, suddenly, the buck doesn?t stop at his door, he?s claiming to be just some hopeless individual as Democrats forced him to sign a bill the negotiated and pushed for? http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/ ... iberty_state_park_to.html
Posted on: 2016/1/22 15:13
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Posted on: 2016/1/22 1:26
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Correct. You gotta love the logic of some of these folks. Secondly, it's not Christie but the democratic assembly that sold out the park. Yet, it's just blind hate on Gov. Christie (R). There are plenty of things the Governor deserves heat on, and I'm dumbfounded the Save Liberty Park jokers choose are blaming him. Personally, I would love to see some (very) light development around the train shed. It's a sin to let the buildings remain vacant and rot away. I also wish there was a way to have a more pedestrian friendly access from downtown. I would not be supportive of a hotel, however. Keep that offsite. I would love to see a casino come to Jersey City, but the location next to LSP is odd. Plus a 90 story building will really stand out at that location. It could work only if it's part of a much larger redevelopment plan for the area with additional high rise buildings, new shops, and offices to help revitalize Bergen-Lafayette. Have the new development next to the park, next to the water, with the beautiful views of the Hudson and Manhattan. I choose not to own a car and take transit (unlike these faux environmentalists protesting Christie and LSP). I always though it's currently a little isolated. I know the HBLR stop is there but it still doesn't feeling welcoming as a pedestrian and without driving in.
Posted on: 2016/1/22 0:45
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Of course, they're all lying scumbags. The oppose small scale development within the park, but they all want to park a 90 plus story casino abutting the park on 200 acres! So the pollution, traffic, and environmental impact won't impact LSP because it's yards away?
Posted on: 2016/1/22 0:04
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Posted on: 2016/1/21 23:12
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Liberty State Park advocates to Christie: Don't touch the 'people's park'By JERSEY CITY — A coalition of nonprofits and top Democrats met on the Jersey City Waterfront today to issue a warning to Gov. Chris Christie: keep your hands off Liberty State Park. The coalition, which includes Friends of Liberty State Park and NY/NJ Baykeeper, formed to fight state plans that could lead to development at the 1,200-acre state park, plans Sam Pesin, FOLSP president, called "sickening and unacceptable." "The park's history is one of battles," Pesin said. "We are ready to fight again." Democrats who joined Pesin — Mayor Steve Fulop, state Senate President Stephen Sweeney, Senate Majority Leader Loretta Weinberg, state Sen. Sandra B. Cunningham and Assemblyman Raj Mukherji — took Christie to task for making moves to develop the park and predicted any development plans would fail. "While Sam Pesin is not the biggest of guys," Fulop said, "he is undefeated against governors." Read more: http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... o_christie_dont_touc.html
Posted on: 2016/1/21 23:02
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Posted on: 2016/1/21 22:58
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Fulop, Sweeney join forces to fight Christie on developing Liberty State ParkJersey City Mayor Steven Fulop and state Senate President (D-3) Stephen Sweeney will probably dual over the governor’s seat in 2017, but for now, they’re uniting to keep Gov. Chris Christie (R) from privatizing Liberty State Park. Fulop and Sweeney have formed a coalition with state Senate Majority Leader Loretta Weinberg (D-37), state Senator Sandra Cunningham (D-31), Assemblyman Raj Mukherji (D-33), and perhaps most importantly, Sam Pesin. Read more: http://hudsoncountyview.com/fulop-swe ... oping-liberty-state-park/
Posted on: 2016/1/21 22:54
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Given the ferry traffic in morning and afternoons, the bridge would have to stay up pretty much the entire time during those time periods. I guess mid-day, and early afternoon, the bridge could transition into raised/down as needed, but even that would be seeing a lot of action as the marina traffic comes and goes. People seem to forget that there are two ferry operators with fairly good frequency at certain times.
Posted on: 2015/12/21 17:11
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Or it could swing open pretty easily.
Posted on: 2015/12/21 16:57
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Desolate areas cease being desolate areas when there is a destination of which to go. Quote:
That is correct. If Fulop were smart, he could beat the state to the punch on this and push for the type of development discussed. However, much of this discussion is down to a fundamental difference in opinion regarding the function and purpose of a park. Christie and his administration firmly believe that parks should be able to turn a profit while those opposed to development believe that parks are public spaces for residents to use as an escape from everyday lives. Quote:
With the onboarding of Berry Lane Park, it is highly possible/probable, that the schools could use the new location while construction occurs.
Posted on: 2015/12/21 16:14
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The idea of a pedestrian bridge is silly. The Morris Canal can not be closed off to traffic, and there is a lot of it, so any bridge would have to be REALLY tall. Given that the span between the two sides is so short, that means that the bridge would have to be incredibly steeps to get up and down in that space while still allowing for traffic to get by. The only alternative would be two build the equivalent of 5 or 6 story towers on both sides, with an elevator bank to whisk people up and down, so they can then walk across the short distance between the two sides. Can you imagine the cost? And, what about the on-going maintenance??
Posted on: 2015/12/21 15:49
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While I don't necessarily disagree that it is a well used park, the state should care only a little bit whether or not it benefits JC specifically and more whether or not it benefits the people of the state as a whole. I do think there is a lot of space that hasn't yet been cleaned up in the park, and that commercializing a few bits might be a good way to get the funding to clean up and open up a lot more of the park to the public as open space. Making sure that happens is the trick, as often you'll get commercialization without the give back to the rest of the park. The one thing that stuck out to me was the proposed pedestrian bridge from Paulus Hook. That would be a pretty big benefit for JC.
Posted on: 2015/12/21 13:02
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For anyone to say the park is under utilized then that person has not been to LSP during the summer months. It is packed with people, especially families. If you are not there early enough, you cannot park, especially the weekends. There will be no benefit to JC with the increased traffic, just more traffic on our roads and JC residents will have to pay for more police presence due to the traffic problems.
Posted on: 2015/12/21 11:57
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OPINION: Don’t commercialize Liberty State ParkLiberty State Park is unique in the state park system, a huge “green oasis” amid the offices and industry of the urban Hudson River waterfront, with sweeping views of the Manhattan skyline, the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island. Well-loved public parks like Liberty are the mark of a civilized society and add enormous economic and environmental values to our communities. But right now, a debate is raging over a proposal by the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection (NJDEP) to turn Liberty State Park into a “world class destination” with new amenities that could include a hotel, conference center, restaurants, amphitheater, amusement park and new marina. The Christie administration has proposed a “sustainable parks” initiative to make parks pay for themselves. This would mean bringing in commercial vendors who would pay fees to the state in exchange for running their businesses in park facilities. “The park is underused, and could be drawing millions more visits per year,” according to an NJDEP report released in late November. “It could also do much more to serve its visitors by offering more daily programming for locals, especially families and children, much more frequent public events for New Jerseyans, and providing much-needed amenities for tourists.” The state’s proposal alarmed Jersey City Mayor Steven Fulop, the Friends of Liberty State Park and many citizens all over New Jersey, who fear that the proposed commercialization would damage the park and the public trust. With its expansive lawns, incomparable views, ferry access and Liberty Science Center, Liberty State Park is already a popular destination for 4 million visitors a year. “The park is heavily used for free recreation without admission fees — for relaxing, picnicking, flying kites, hanging out, fresh air, open skies and open views, enjoying nature, barbecuing, uplifting our spirit, for hearing free music and periodic appropriate weekend events,” wrote the Friends of Liberty State Park. Sam Pesin, president of the Friends, believes that Liberty State Park should remain a free and non-commercial public open space, similar to Central Park. “New Yorkers would never allow a hotel inside Central Park,” he argues. Liberty State Park does have underutilized spaces, most notably the historic Central Railroad of New Jersey terminal and the adjacent train shed. And these historic structures need funding for restoration and upkeep. But opponents of commercialization say turning the terminal building into a conference center, and the train shed into a hotel, would create uses too intense for the site and would alter the park’s character. Sensitive adaptive reuse of public places and historic sites can be very successful and could be further explored at Liberty State Park with input from the community, including the Friends of Liberty State Park. There are plenty of hotels, restaurants and event spaces in the metropolitan area, but open land is scarce and precious. Maintaining Liberty State Park’s character — a green refuge from urban New Jersey’s noise and bustle — should be the top priority and the underpinning of any new plans for the park. Parks are part of the public trust and exist to serve the public good. It would be wise for the state to adopt the medical profession’s mantra: First, do no harm. To read the state’s report, go to http://media.nj.com/hudsoncountynow_i ... er/DEP%20LSP%20report.pdf. For the Friends of Liberty State Park’s page on the issue, visit http://www.folsp.org/preservation/meadowlands_act.html. And to learn more about preserving New Jersey’s land and natural resources, visit the New Jersey Conservation Foundation website at www.njconservation.org or contact me at info@njconservation.org. Michele S. Byers is executive director of the New Jersey Conservation Foundation. http://www.dailyrecord.com/story/opin ... erty-state-park/77611512/
Posted on: 2015/12/21 6:50
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Metlife stadium is built on wasteland in the middle of nowhere - who'd want to go there? And the meadowlands doesn't have a steady stream of cruise ships carrying 3-4k people as a potential captive audience for shows and events. At Cochrane, you could build up the stands, south and west of the existing stadium to cater for 10k+ people - and still leave the public fields untouched for school use. A bigger development would be contingent on a developer providing alternative public space - though they'd probably just acquire the space next door to avoid the hassle of angry locals. http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... jersey_city_property.html.
Posted on: 2015/12/15 20:59
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What's tiny is the existing seating capacity based on what's already there. MSG seating capacity: 18+ K Barclays seating capacity: 18+ K Cochrane seating capacity: 3K The total space over there may be more than MSG, but it certainly is not all usable, unless you want to demolish the existing baseball diamond and football field. Good luck with that... the football field is in use by several schools. If you threaten to take away those fields, the entire community would demonstrate against those plans. And, like I said in my original reply, I just don't see how you get people to come out to events in that area given its relatively far away location, and the general condition of the surrounding area.
Posted on: 2015/12/15 19:45
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Yes, this is a big area. Together with the adjacent warehouse, this place was one of the finalists for the new NY Jets practice facility. Also, the large Army Reserve lot across the street is available. You'd think someone might do something sensible there. Both lots abut the golf course.
Posted on: 2015/12/15 19:19
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Nothing is stopping Mayor Fulop from doing any of those things. These proposals are being done by the state, on state property.
Posted on: 2015/12/15 18:03
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This is tiny? An existing 3000-seat stadium with full size baseball/football field, a soccer field, 2 smaller baseball fields, and sizeable parking lot. It's 900x900 ft. MSG by comparison is 500x500 - basically you could fit 3 MSGs in that space. An amphitheater placed there would have the backdrop to the NY skyline and statue of liberty. That's prime real estate - and the right development could preserve day-time recreational public use - while night-time could be given over to concerts, shows and sporting events.
Posted on: 2015/12/15 17:44
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What we should be hearing in the news is the the loud protests that should be coming from within the Parks department, not a placating statement designed to mollify our community outrage. Building Hotels in parks to "help pay for the parks" is NOT how State Parks function. If the State Parks are too expensive to run then the problem is with Park management. A park administrator that can even consider the idea of selling off or leasing parts of the land held in the public trust to private industry to cover the cost of managing the park is the wrong person for the job.A Parks department that tells us not to worry, that there are no imminent plans to develop the park is NOT the administrators we need, we need ones that will assure us that they are working to fight the privatization of our parks, not lending the credibility of their offices to the notion that privatization is even remotely possible.
Posted on: 2015/12/15 13:15
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Surely, you are not being serious. Cochrane Stadium? I had to look it up to confirm it was the same as what i normally call Caven Point stadium. The place is tiny! Not sure how you would hold "Barclay's style" professional sports events with the space available there, or fit an open air amphitheater. Not to mention that no one would want to head out to what amounts to a desolate industrial area in the middle of nowhere.
Posted on: 2015/12/15 12:57
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Take 50% of the ideas proposed, and put them elsewhere in JC. For example - consider what JC could put in Cochrane Stadium.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochrane_Stadium - Open air amphitheater for evening concerts, cruise ship shows - Barclay's style center for professional sports events. - Preserve daytime school sports. - Off-peak farmer/vendors markets - JC can collect on % of gate. Why put it in LSP when there are alternatives that could benefit the city directly?
Posted on: 2015/12/15 12:49
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DEP says no timeline for potential Liberty State Park development By Following the release of an 18-page report outlining potential development in Liberty State Park, a spokesman for the state Department of Environmental Protection said today that no projects have officially been proposed for the Jersey City waterfront park. "We just have some ideas that have been put forth," said DEP spokesman Lawrence Hajna. "We have to examine what's reasonable and feasible, and what maintains the historic integrity of the park." The report, which was released on Nov. 24 and developed by the Biederman Redevelopment Ventures at a cost of $120,000, suggested among other things, the rehabilitation of the inner, contaminated region of the park, and the introduction of a private hotel or event hall in the northern section of the park. The suggestions are a part of Gov. Chris Christie's plan to get the park closer to being financially self-sufficient. Read more: http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... erty_state_park_deve.html
Posted on: 2015/12/15 1:19
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I love the park and use it regularly and I am all for preserving it. That being said your chart points out perfectly that there is a lot of interior space that could be utilized. I believe a great compromise would be to develop the outer perimeter with attractions while developing some of the interior space with trails in a more natural setting
Posted on: 2015/12/9 4:05
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For a quick visual glance at the potential LSP development, thought I'd make a quick animated gif / image that shows the DEP's suggestions, depitcted in the NJTV report video linked earlier in this discussion:
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm ... deo-to-gif-compressor.gif 
Posted on: 2015/12/9 1:25
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The Record: Liberty maulMonday, November 30, 2015, 1:20 AM The Record NOT ONLY is Liberty State Park in Jersey City an open space oasis in a highly urbanized area, it offers a panoramic view of the New York City skyline and easy ferry access to the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island. It's no surprise that the park attracts more than 4 million visitors a year. Not content with the status quo, the state has plans to sharply increase development in the park, saying that would draw even more visitors and increase revenue. Park supporters and environmental groups have condemned the idea, and Jersey City Mayor Steven Fulop has pledged to go to court to stymie the state's efforts. The unhappiness is not only attributed to any development plans, but to the state's reluctance to openly discuss its intentions for the park for most of this year. Park supporters also were dismayed when a last-minute amendment was added to a non-related bill in 2014 to give some development powers to the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority. Read more: http://www.northjersey.com/opinion/op ... ls/liberty-maul-1.1464617
Posted on: 2015/11/30 7:03
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Should Liberty State Park add amusement rides, apartments, and hotels? By JERSEY CITY — The state Department of Environmental Protection's has made public a 44-page appendix to an 18-page report it released earlier this week that suggested private development in portions of Liberty State Park. The report includes more detail on the originally stated proposals. RELATED: Hotel, marina among proposals for Liberty State Park "Liberty State Park is the crown jewel of the New Jersey state parks system. It received 3 million visitors per year, including about 700,000 to the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island," the new report begins. "And yet, Liberty State Park has the potential to be much more. The park is underutilized ... and there's little to no money for public programming and new amenities." The DEP's originally released report included proposals to develop 38 of the park's 1,600 acres, suggested by the state's consultant Biederman Redevelopment Ventures. It was created in the hopes of making the park financially self-sufficient, per Gov. Chris Christie's 2011 call for sustainable state park funding strategies, the consultant said. Read more: http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... ty_state_park_report.html
Posted on: 2015/11/29 21:10
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Now those are words you don't see very often.
Posted on: 2015/11/28 18:34
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