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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
 
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Everyone is going to get their hands dirty on this, and Fulop threw himself into the mix with his statement. He'd have been better off not saying a word, especially given his support for massive construction on LSP borders. In any case, they might as well put a 'watch this space' banner around the park, sadly.
Posted on: 2015/8/20 14:35
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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Quote:
 I explicitly stated that I was NOT arguing for an SMRC-type development for LSP. It's not a good fit, the park is too small, JC doesn't have a lot of green space, it's almost certainly not what residents want. My point is that referring to SMRC as a nature-killing debacle is flat wrong. So far, it's an example of open space development done right. Or, think of it this way: Should we tear down the Liberty State Science Center, so that we can have more green space at LSP? No. Is recognizing the value of the Science Center equivalent to advocating for a big water park in LSP? Obviously not.
Posted on: 2015/8/20 14:32
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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Your point is that anything that increases usage is good?
Great, Six Flags will be on the short list for LSP, as it would bring a LOT of people to the park! And 'you can't get near there during the weekend'-just what LSP needs! Of course, the Jersey Avenue extension will help with that . . . Imagine if similar development to LSP occurs-a similar sized restaurant, or zipline/adventure course is going to have a larger impact on the smaller acreage that is LSP, no? But a restaurant, or zipline/adventure course probably wouldn't be 'heavy' development.
Posted on: 2015/8/20 10:30
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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What fresh nonsense is this? South Mountain Reservation is around 2,000 acres. The Recreation Complex is 36 acres, all of which is concentrated in one area, and at least 20 of which was already in use by the Turtle Back Zoo and Codey Arena. The ~16 acres of expansion was mostly a big grass field that was almost never used at the corner of a busy intersection, right next to a big commercial strip, and a reservoir that was not previously accessible by the public at all. The new Recreational Complex is also ENORMOUSLY successful. It's not like they built a ton of stuff that no one uses; it's a popular destination, and you can barely get near it on the weekends. One of the reasons they keep working on it is because it works well, and the community likes it -- and it has not compromised the Reservation. This is not to say that LSP should do the same thing. LSP is much smaller (1200 acres), and nearly half that is contaminated and unusable. JC has far less greenery and green space than most of Essex County. Most of LSP's existing space already is in frequent use. Rather, it's that SMRC is not the poster child for park development gone off the rails. Quite the opposite.
Posted on: 2015/8/20 3:27
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Re: Battle for the future of LSP keeps ongoing
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Posted on: 2015/8/20 1:48
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Battle for the future of LSP keeps ongoing
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Home away from home
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Thanks for the reference. All the reasons to remain vigilante. Development in LSP would be a casus belli for me and many of my friends. This is our gem. We should learn from Central Park history and remain very active as community.
Posted on: 2015/8/20 1:42
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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I agree, leave it alone-mostly. Something could be done within the terminal building, inside the footprint.
But if you want to be scared, check out what Joe D, the Dem boss of Essex County, has done to the Olmsted Brother's South Mountain Reservation. Zip line adventure course, miniature golf course, expensive giant restaurant, swan shaped pedal boats and marina . . . and this was done to a beautiful, natural park, not reclaimed landfill like LSP.
Posted on: 2015/8/20 1:25
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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I don't see that. The only facts we have are for development OUTSIDE LSP - and I agree that some like the casino are troubling. As for INSIDE, there are no facts as for his intentions within. Just innuendos based on his words or lack thereof. Fulop stated tat he wanted it to remain "pristine" and that the citizenry would be in uproar should the meadowland commission touch this park. Should he even dare to touch it the same situation would happen to him.
Your title accurately refers to heavy, medium and light (proposed) development around LSP at this point. Hard to say whether LSP will not turn into the next central Park. Hopefully we will all be vigilante in keeping it pristine.
Posted on: 2015/8/20 1:13
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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Then he should've said 'I oppose any and all development within LSP'.
He said something entirely different. He even could've fudged more and said 'I look forward to some more amenities within the historic rail terminal building', because there is a need for some less expensive dining choices, to be honest. Right now it's either Maritime Parc, Liberty House, or a few hot dog carts. Of course, with all the development he supports around the edges of LSP, and the feeder road extension of Jersey Avenue into the park (and towards the LSC, and towards where the hotel/conference center/casino would be built) there will be development within the park.
Posted on: 2015/8/20 0:49
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Fulop comes strongly opposed to heavy development of LSP
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Home away from home
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Then what are your definitions of "light" and "medium" development? Let's exchange definitions on what are projections at this point. In the meantime Fulop has said he wants LSP to remain a "pristine, passive" park which seems quite clear in definition. But he does not have the power to change any action through zoning since this is state land. So what can he be blamed for?
Posted on: 2015/8/20 0:32
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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Spare me the pontifications about Fulop getting all green.
Facts are he advocated planting a 90 story monstrosity inches away from LSP, and in particular about a hundred yards away from a restricted parcel kept off limits most of the year for migrating birds. Facts are he was in favor of dropping a 100,000 seat autodrome abutting LSP. Facts are he gave a sweetheart deal to the LSC for another hotel/school complex directly across the street from LSP.
Posted on: 2015/8/20 0:13
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Re: Fulop comes strongly opposed to heavy development of LSP
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Home away from home
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You are making up your definitions of light, medium, and heavy development and treating them as fact.
Who says that "heavy development" just means "construction?" Doesn't seem to be the case to me. I agree that Fulop chose his words very carefully, and if he wanted to oppose all development (or all construction), he would have said so. Also, remember that he has a governor race to run and campaign contributions and support to gather. Developers will likely be one of his biggest sources of support. I'm sure they'd love to get their hands on the park, and I speculate that these considerations (or conversations) informed his very deliberate word choice.
Posted on: 2015/8/20 0:06
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Fulop comes strongly opposed to heavy development of LSP
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Home away from home
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The article clearly states that Fulop is opposed to heavy development (meaning construction) in Liberty State park and that he wants the place to remain "pristine". It was quite interesting to suddenly see the title of this thread changed to him being "in favor" of "light" or "medium" development of LSP. Is "light" about "community-based activities" ? If yes then I bet that Fulop is for it! Let's have couple more triathlons there! Is "medium" about some kind of restoration of the terminal? Yes Fulop might be for it too!
In the meantime, I can certainly appreciate how Chicago is played here. Very well done. To the admin please consider changing the title to the above.
Posted on: 2015/8/19 23:55
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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Agreed! He definitely chose his words very carefully when phrasing his position. He certainly left the door wide open for some sort of construction/development.
Posted on: 2015/8/19 15:23
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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If Fulop had said he opposed any development I'd agree. But he parsed his words very carefully. Why else would he say what he said?
Posted on: 2015/8/19 13:57
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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Being opposed to heavy development doesn't translate to being open to medium and light development as a result.
Posted on: 2015/8/19 13:39
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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By this I meant opening the land to developers.
Posted on: 2015/8/17 22:34
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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How could Fulop sell land JC doesn't own?? He doesn't even have standing to impose JC zoning on LSP.
Posted on: 2015/8/17 22:27
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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As per the article Fulop strongly worded opposition to heavy development, meaning construction in LSP. As for concession stands etc that he did not answer and honestly this is debatable. After all, one might argue whether allowing another tavern-on-the-green in the southern part of the park would be considered a desirable amenity. One could also argue whether restoring the track area by the terminal and making it part of some community oriented commercial activity would be acceptable or not. Looking at the way it is falling appart, something needs to be done. We have discussed this as long as the embankment.
So I don't see him selling the land to developers at all and I don't think we can prejudge his intentions on that one. Development of the surroundings is another story. It is pretty clear that the proposed casino is to prop business at the golf course. But the location is ridiculous. This small corner by the Turnpike exit to build a 90 story tower? Com'on, it makes me laugh every time I run buy. The overlook of the nature reserve is indeed another factor - that don't make me laugh.
Posted on: 2015/8/17 22:22
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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Without knowing the details, campaign contributions and substantial support for his governor run can explain pretty much any "inexplicable" action taken by Fulop.
Posted on: 2015/8/17 19:00
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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Agreed on all points. I can not, for the life of me, understand why Fulop is in support of extending Jersey Avenue into the park, or any of the other ideas being floated. The park is already threatened enough by the out of control commuters who speed through it. I am surprised the Park Police is not more proactive about stopping and ticketing the many people that travel at high speeds through there. The one exception I can see to all of this is approving a well thought out plan that would bring some concessions to the park. Right now, there is nothing there other than two upscale restaurants and a hot dog cart which I see from time to time. The park is definitely lacking in some basic amenities, and I think some food/drink options could be implemented without taking away from the otherwise peace and serenity you can enjoy there.
Posted on: 2015/8/17 18:43
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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Yup! And it is all very disappointing. The park is one of, if not thee, largest in the state. It has fantastic views and provides a great experience for everyone that goes. There really is no need to start tearing parts of it up so that some developer can bleed their brand inside of it... I'm also not that keen on expanding the foot bridge for cars. We should be looking to cut cars out further.
Posted on: 2015/8/17 18:19
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Dos A Cero
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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Yes, as noted before.
Jersey Avenue will be opened to allow higher density access to LSP, the new developments across from LSC (hotel, school) that he backs, and leads to the 90 story casino/hotel/conference center-all adjacent to LSP. These new developments aren't 'in' LSP, but Fulop is also now supporting development within LSP. So I guess we can say that Fulop supports 'heavy' development directly alongside LSP (and I'm not even mentioning the 100,000 seat racetrack he supported) and apparently light and medium development within the park itself.
Posted on: 2015/8/17 18:12
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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Quote:
All very good questions that, sadly, I don't see Fulop answering anytime soon.
Posted on: 2015/8/17 18:11
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Dos A Cero
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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Fulop vows to fight against heavy development in Liberty State ParkBy Jersey City Mayor Steve Fulop has promised to fight "any plan of heavy development inside" Liberty State Park and warned in a strongly worded letter to the state environmental chief that a citizen army would be backing him. The letter, like one co-authored by state Senate President Steve Sweeney and state Sen. Sandra Cunningham, D-Jersey City, is in response to state legislation that critics say gave the newly created Meadowlands Regional Commission power to implement and approve development at Liberty State Park. "My administration will oppose any plan of heavy development inside the park," wrote Fulop. "We will oppose it as strongly and loudly as possible." Read more: http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/index ... eatens_fight_against.html
Posted on: 2015/8/17 17:52
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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Well, I guess I'm in favor of some development as well. I wouldn't mind someplace that sold a bit of food on the weekends. I think the park would be better served if the light rail went into the park.
I wouldn't mind something being done with the old terminal, including maybe food or events of some kind. They might be well served by renting our kayaks out of the park. I can think of all sorts of light development that might be beneficial and i think it's smart to not say you'rte opposed to every possibly type of development. Lots of parks have some development so the devil is in the details.
Posted on: 2015/8/17 16:38
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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Agreed. Pave the entire park. Two cars for every citizen.
Posted on: 2015/8/17 16:02
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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All that open land just sitting there so a bird can take a break. J.C. can solve their housing and parking problems in one shot. With all the new population spilling in we have to put them somewhere.
Posted on: 2015/8/17 13:42
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Get on your bikes and ride !
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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Fulop did not state that he opposed any and all development in LSP, he parsed his words by saying he opposes 'heavy' development. If you don't think that means he supports some development 'lesser' than heavy development, then we'll see soon enough.
Don't listen to all the words about protecting the park; 100 yards from the migratory bird area which is prohibited from park goers from April-October is where Fulop supports a 90 story, glass fronted behemoth hotel/casino/conference. 100 yards away.
Posted on: 2015/8/17 10:27
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Re: Fulop open to light and medium development of LSP
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Home away from home
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Where exactly is the statement in the article supporting the OP title for the thread?
Posted on: 2015/8/17 1:09
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