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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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2013/3/29 21:43 Last Login : 2023/9/5 18:27 From Bergen Hill
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It's good to know the local racist troll still follows me like a puppy. Would you like a treat?
Posted on: 2016/10/7 11:10
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Dos A Cero
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Quite a regular
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Here we have someone who cares deeply about their neighborhood. They have not only the means, but the motivation to make it the best they can. However, they are hamstrung by a narrow definition of "historic."
Part of the beauty of downtown JC is a mix of historic flavors. This isn't a gaslight village where we live in a particular era. Homeowners are encouraged by property values to make the choices that fit best and drive return (high end vinyl notwithstanding...). The National Historic Preservation Act of 1966, which gives these groups power, is overreaching and unnecessary in my opinion. To those in the Heights under the new regime, I hope you preserve, restore and IMPROVE your buildings to the best of your ability. Quote:
Posted on: 2016/10/7 4:02
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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Like anyone would trust a thing you say, lol.
Posted on: 2016/10/7 0:07
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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I live down the block from 46 Bentley in a Historic Home commissioned in 1879 by Dr. Wm. Perry Watson who created Pediatrics & founded Medical Examiners nationwide. [aka 1st Doctor's house on Doctor's Row]. I am the woman that Yvonne Balcer spoke of, who fled the encumbrances of historic district in VVP after 17years of HPO nonsense where they would not allow anything other than 1938 retail storefront restoration to the ground floor of my mixed use building on Montgomery St., which DID NOT allow me to function my life & business. While seeking a property w/ offstreet parking I inquired of the Seller's Realtor if Bentley Ave. was in a Historic District 10 years ago, & his response was NO. If I could have seen this coming I would have walked away from purchasing my current home, despite the fact that I LOVE this Place !!! [& all of it's gorgeous details from yesteryear.] Reality of the situation at hand currently ::: Historic District REGULATIONS for WBELP area are STILL NOT Defined 16+ months after voted into 'LAW' by City Council Ordinance. HOMEOWNERS/PROPERTY OWNERS have Nothing to Abide & City has Nothing to Enforce !!!
Posted on: 2016/10/6 21:10
Edited by light12v on 2016/10/6 21:36:44
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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https://www.sdlportal.com/towns/nj/hud ... y/building/permits/116745
Posted on: 2016/10/6 20:33
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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2013/3/29 21:43 Last Login : 2023/9/5 18:27 From Bergen Hill
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Carlos Fernandez is a fraud. The case is a fraud. He received his permits AFTER the district was designated. The permits don't specify what type of siding is going to be used. The guy's house is damaged because he chooses to not fix it within the guidelines of the law. That is HIS choice.
Posted on: 2016/10/6 11:11
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Dos A Cero
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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Carlos Fernandes' house is damage by the elements, how can that "...justify the means?"
Posted on: 2016/10/6 3:36
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Just can't stay away
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"High end" vinyl siding? Illegal shut down perhaps but maybe the ends justify the means?
Posted on: 2016/10/6 3:33
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Quite a regular
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Amen! These commissions serve to hold on to a past that never existed in the first place. In the past 200 years, a series of wood framed "historic buildings" were removed to put in the brownstones. I'm sure some were amazing buildings that fell into disrepair.
Posted on: 2016/10/6 2:46
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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itgirl's post made me wonder who is doing what without permits over on Bentley. I trust the City's inspectors go and check things out.
Hmm... interesting case. The City already permitted the complete demolition of an historic building in the new district. That demolition, occurring after the ordinance passed, was apparently OK. By coincidence, in a stroke of remarkably good timing, the application for the demolition was submitted just before before passage of the new ordinance. See user1111's post #63 below in this thread, and also: http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... ue_tears_down_buildi.html So, what surprised me is that the suit has no argument related to the City's powers in respect of historic preservation. The NJ enabling legislation (?MLUL?) is clear in that it permits Cities to regulate ?historic preservation and conservation?. Those are the words from the legislation, thus, it is those activities the City can regulate, at least in respect of a matter like this. Implicit in the meaning of the words ?historic preservation? is the idea that something from the past still exists today to be preserved. Put another way, if it's not there now, then there's nothing to ?preserve.? So, if the siding this guy removed from his house wasn't the original historic siding then it's over-reach by the City to demand he ?re-create? the historic wood siding for the house. They would be acting beyond their legal authority - ?ultra vires? - because there isn't anything historic to preserve. However, if the siding he removed was the original historic wood siding, then he's out of luck and will need to go to the huge expense of replacing it with ?new? historic wood siding. Seems like a contradiction in terms, ?new? historic siding.... Oh well. Of course even when legislation limits the City's authority it doesn't always work like that in practice. In Jersey City here's how it actually goes down: The Historic Preservation Officer / Commission withhold permit approvals until a property owner gives them what they want, even when there's nothing historic left to preserve. There's nothing the HPC likes more than to spend other people's money, lots of it, on expensive ?re-creations? of late 19th and early 20th century buildings. In theory, homeowners could appeal, but that gets expensive and time-consuming. Oftentimes the path of least resistance is to comply with whatever the HPC demands. If a homeowner is broke and can't do what the HPC wants, then they can (must) sell and move ? try living in a house you can't heat because of defective windows or siding you're not permitted to fix.... Now that makes me wonder if there isn't a ?disparate impact? suit hiding in here someplace.... See: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/13-1371_8m58.pdf * I'd never buy in a historic district for reasons related to the above. The power the City has ? not based in law, but practically speaking by denying permit applications ? makes it very uncertain as to what work an owner will be permitted to undertake on a property and also drives up the costs considerably. Those long, historic wood widows are as much a $3,500 a piece!! * In Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs v. The Inclusive Communities Project, Inc., the Court held that disparate impact claims are available under the Fair Housing Act. This allows plaintiffs to challenge housing laws and practices that have a discriminatory effect, even if there is no intent to discriminate.
Posted on: 2016/10/6 1:51
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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Seems like this fact is being provided to show that enforcement of the regulations is politically motivated and not actually important.
Posted on: 2016/10/6 0:16
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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The city has an obligation to inform homeowners when they apply for a permit and it should have mail information to all homeowners in the new historic district. None of this was done. This administration should have work with the homeowners instead of having this lawsuit. No one know how a judge will rule. Look how the judge ruled in the revaluation case.
Posted on: 2016/10/5 22:43
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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is historic preservation a state agency, and if so, shouldn't the plaintiffs sue the state, instead of jersey city?
Posted on: 2016/10/5 22:42
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Just can't stay away
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What's with bitchy background fact #38 from the filed suit? If your case has merit, based on your authorization from the City, why drop dime on your neighbors? 38. Also, the Plaintiffs are well aware of property owners on their street who have done extensive construction and alterations to their properties, alterations that are not only disfavored according to Jersey City guidelines, such as using vinyl siding, but also alterations which are strictly prohibited, such as using metal frame windows. One couple who conducted alterations to their property without HPC approval were married by Mayor Fulop and, upon information and belief, were significant supporters of Mayor Fulop's campaign.
Posted on: 2016/10/5 21:24
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Quite a regular
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According to the report, the family had a valid work order and permits from the city, so those must have been filed before the Historic District vote was passed. Why does the city not honor their own permit? If JC does not go back and force residents to undo previous "non-historical" renovations, why does it stop this previously approved renovation, if the couple eked in prior to the deadline? Another blemish to Fulop's administration in my eyes. These things should be cut and dry... only allow work that is already permitted, but anything that has not been issued as of the date of the law cannot be done. So if they for example, received permits already for siding, but not for windows, then they cannot buy Home Depot plain windows and need proper historic colored windows.
Posted on: 2016/10/5 20:12
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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i wonder why can't i open a brothel/strip club or pot house in jersey city and claim that my free of speech rights are being violated
Posted on: 2016/10/5 20:12
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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Couple seeks $18M from Jersey City in lawsuit over historic district guidelines
By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal on October 05, 2016 at 12:28 PM, updated October 05, 2016 at 12:46 PM JERSEY CITY ? A Bentley Avenue couple is seeking as much as $18 million from Jersey City, alleging in a six-count lawsuit that the city violated their constitutional rights when it ordered them to stop construction on their home in a newly designated historic district. http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... t.html#incart_2box_hudson
Posted on: 2016/10/5 19:37
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Not too shy to talk
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2006/10/31 20:04 Last Login : 2015/9/9 20:58 From Jersey City
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What is really sad is seeing historic building facades falling into disrepair and decay because the people who live in/ own them can not afford to maintain them, or because of their love of "freedom" don't care enough to do required maintenance.
Then there are the eyesore "renovations" that cover everything in plastic siding, or simply remove the historic detail because of the "freedom" to have the lowest maintenance costs while taking every dollar of the rent generated by the place, but doing no maintenance. Then there are the opportunist "Freedom Investors" that tear down the original house and build an out of place pink monster that gobbles up all the potential green space around it to maximize the square footage that can be rented. leaving the area looking like a cement wasteland. This kind of "Freedom" I can do without.
Posted on: 2015/9/9 20:59
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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2014/12/21 14:43 Last Login : 2015/11/15 0:07 From Harsimus Cove
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Curious - where did you buy that affords you the same amenities as living in a DTJC historic district but w/o restrictions?
Posted on: 2015/8/4 18:43
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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Thanks JadedJC, your experiences with the Historic Preservation requirements exactly match mine, and my neighbors as well. In short, it's an expensive nightmare.
In a classic example of regulatory overreach, the City uses the preservation requirements to browbeat homeowners into undertaking very expensive ?restoration? efforts. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just fooling themselves. Replacing windows is just one example. Historic appearing, parlor-level, long, wood windows for a brownstone run to several thousand dollars each (yes, thousands) to buy and install. The short wood windows are over a thousand each. And it's all paid for twice by Jersey City homeowners. Once to have the costly work done, and then again through increased taxes when the City reassesses the restored property. And just as there are NO tax credits, grant funds, etc., for an individual homeowner, there aren't any tax abatements either. The canard of financial support to individual homeowners was exactly that, introduced to try and divert attention from the reality. Here's a link to a description of the relationship between Federal, State and Municipal level ?historic designation?: http://www.nj.gov/dep/hpo/hpo_article.pdf
Posted on: 2015/8/4 13:57
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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Have you actually clicked on any of those links? They're of no use to the average homeowner who is looking for some relief in offsetting the cost of, say, replacing windows or a cornice or repointing bricks. The "tools" are basically aimed at spreading the gospel of preservation, such as helping communities draft ordinances, set up commissions and identify properties for landmarking. The tax credit is only for income-producing properties. Believe me, I searched high and low for tax credits and possible grants. None exist for the average homeowner. To add insult to injury, my historic window replacement actually cost me a tax credit. Those beautiful, Colonial Williamsburg-worthy windows didn't qualify for the energy efficiency tax credit because they weren't Energy Star rated. How f*cked up and unfair is that? I would have more respect for preservationists if they at least acknowledged the financial burden of landmarking a building or neighborhood and expended some time and effort in finding/suggesting creative funding solutions, pushing for real tax credits, and working for guidelines that balance affordability with preserving the historic elements of a building. Instead, all their efforts are aimed at landmarking as many neighborhoods and buildings as possible, and then pushing for the strictest possible rules that in most cases drive up the cost of repairs and maintenance. In my experience, most preservationists who serve on HPCs are extremists who simply don't care about cost, and they have the luxury of being hardliners because they're not the ones writing the checks. Trying to reason with them to seek a compromise on cost grounds is like trying to reason with the Taliban or ISIS.
Posted on: 2015/8/4 1:46
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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2013/3/29 21:43 Last Login : 2023/9/5 18:27 From Bergen Hill
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Just as an addendum on the "Bergen Hill was historic district..." The *real* story is that the state used to control the designations. In this case, Bergen Hill was preserved. However, the city decided to take over the designations of the areas and this is where things got funny. Instead of maintaining the designation and preserving the homes that existed, complete morons decided that it would be a good idea to not give it the city designation which meant that it had no protection.
The designation was never "removed" from Bergen Hill as it pertains to Jersey City. Jersey City just chose to not extend the status with protections from the city after overtaking the designations from the state. I'm sure that there were people which were suckered in by the fear mongering caused by those claiming that costs would go through the roof on repairs. This is quite a shame though as it could have saved the area from some the absolute shambolic constructions that have popped up. Quote:
Here is a link for tax incentives for historic preservation. Here is a link for tools for historic preservation which includes applying to funds from the state. Greystone is definitely a shame. Occasionally, I play soccer in the new parks built in front of the buildings. The problem with that building is its history. In theory, it could be turned into housing or offices, etc. However, due to our overly religious society, people are paranoid about it.
Posted on: 2015/8/3 20:26
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Dos A Cero
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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A West Side community group and synagogue are at odds after the temple demolished one of its properties last week that was in the city's newest historic district.
Temple Beth-El, a reform synagogue located on Kennedy Boulevard between Harrison and Bentley avenues, tore down its 110-year-old Samuel Berman House as a means to cut costs, upsetting residents who thought the building could have been preserved. "It could have been a place where we had community meetings," Bentley Avenue resident David Gibson said. "They never made it available." The temple acquired the dilapidated building, known to locals as The Rabbi House, in the 1950s and has since paid for its upkeep and utilities, said Temple Beth-El president Kay Magilavy. It was used for religious classes and once served as the home for a caretaker, but the worsening conditions caused the temple to vacate the building completely. Magilavy added that the synagogue continued to pay "high utility bills to keep building in shape" despite lead paint and asbestos problems. Story
Posted on: 2015/8/3 20:10
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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True. But you are doing the same thing to push your side of the argument as well. As someone who has actually owned historic, I can tell you for a fact that repair and replacement costs will indeed go up. Significantly. For window replacement alone, the difference was nearly $600 per window. Grants and free money towards repairs? From where? I have NEVER heard of any such assistance program for owners of historic homes. If so, please enlighten us. Where do they apply? You don't even get a break on your property taxes. The fact is there are an abundance of "historic" properties throughout this country that merit saving but are crumbling due to the lack of funds, public or private. Case in point: the old Greystone Park asylum. Saving old buildings ain't cheap. And quite frankly, it's money I'd rather spend on health care or education.
Posted on: 2015/6/20 14:37
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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What is false in my statement and what money? If you mean the Community Block grant, what a shame. Non-for-profits use those grants. The city is supposed to give to homeowners grants that in the past that went to the homeless groups or the York Street project? I know Charlene Burke spoke in the caucus and mentioned the senior tax freeze could help some residents. I don't know how receiving back $300 in the senior tax freeze would pay for architectural drawings that might go in the thousands. Why wasn't this money you proposed used downtown?
Posted on: 2015/6/20 14:06
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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2013/3/29 21:43 Last Login : 2023/9/5 18:27 From Bergen Hill
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There is nothing more pathetic than having an argument built on lies and falsehoods and the repeating it when wrong. The repair costs for these people will not go up. In fact they'll be able to apply for grants and get free money towards repairs.
Posted on: 2015/6/20 13:54
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Dos A Cero
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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People forget that Bergen Hill was a historic district the same time downtown communities became a historic district. They did not want this and was successful in having this removed years later. Even, Coleman, who is in favor of this administration admitted she received phone calls and emails from people both in Wards B and her Ward F against the historic district. If the city wanted the people's input, the city should have allowed a vote this coming November. The reason some people have questions on this historic district, the guidelines were not presented to the homeowners before the council vote. That is like purchasing a house and then discovering the price tag. This administration said it is for transparency, where is this transparency?
Posted on: 2015/6/20 13:06
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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Really, 82 out of 500 properties and what, at least 3000 to 5000 residents? You literally made a million dollars in the VVP historic district, you have absolutely no shame.
Posted on: 2015/6/20 6:24
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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82 residents in the district signed a petition against the district. That never came up during the public hearing. Dan, I just disagree with you about the numbers. I had to edit my video and I saw more outside district speak for the district than inside the district.
Posted on: 2015/6/20 3:27
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