Browsing this Thread:
4 Anonymous Users
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
 
|
Quote:
CatDog wrote: So, it's your understanding that people may be filling thousands of them illegal registration forms just for fun? If you plan to answer "no, it's because they are stupid", my next question is: in my examples all the people who were caught doing that were Democrats. Do you know of many Republicans who would do that? Quote: CatDog wrote: I'm sorry, but the word "fact" doesn't mean "this is something that CatDog really wants us to believe is true". The fact should be supported with some evidence. Quote: CatDog wrote: First, NJ and NY are not "pretty liberal", they are as liberal as a state may get. Second, do you understand that your second phrase entirely destroys your attempt in the first phrase to blame it on Republicans? You can't claim that Republicans are creating some horrible difficulties aimed at Democratic voters suppression -- at the same time acknowledging that Democrats are creating same exact difficulties. Quote: CatDog wrote: No, not really. For example, you can use your birth certificate, plus social security card plus bank statement (or high-school diploma, or any professional license). Quote: CatDog wrote: First, I am an immigrant, legal one, and I got ID with no problems, and I was nowhere near "affluent" when I did. So it can be done, even in New Jersey. In Texas it would be even easier. See, when you want to say something like "oh, I imagine how horrible it must be in Texas", I would strongly urge you to actually CHECK how horrible it really is. Like there is an invention, called "internet" and it allows one to easily find and read the list of documents that Texas requires. And then you can compare it with a NJ version. Turns out, NJ says one primary document, plus one or two more. Texas stops at one primary document. They also allow not to have primary, and use two secondary ones. Also, Texas has a longer list of options for primary documents, and supporting documents. It would serve you well to actually check the factoids you are being fed by whatever news source you use, instead of just declaring them "simple facts". It's like Reagan said in one of his best speeches "Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. ".
Posted on: 2015/6/21 5:02
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Quote:
Think you have just been suckered in to the argument. Most of us see it for what it is - a distraction.
Posted on: 2015/6/20 20:06
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Quote:
All of you are completely dancing around the problem and completely ignoring everything I have said. The problem is not with showing ID. The problem is with the process of getting ID. It's amazing. None of you can even bother trying to argue against what I'm saying, so you just ignore it and shout "ILLEGALS. VOTER FRAUD. DEMOCRATS!" I have absolutely no problem with showing an ID to vote. I have enormous problems with the huge barriers that Republicans are putting in place to make it difficult and expensive to get that ID, all in a transparent effort to keep Democratic supporters from voting.
Posted on: 2015/6/20 18:50
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Seems like Democrats want to effectively legalize voter fraud by giving illegals the right to vote.
Posted on: 2015/6/20 17:59
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
There is no unimportant illegal vote, because even one can nullify my vote, taking away my civil rights. I'm not sitting the back of the voting bus to let some non-citizen vote.
It's not onerous to have to show id, as you do getting on a plane or visiting the White House. Or buying a pack of cigarettes or buying some booze for many. US citizens overwhelmingly agree on this, people believing otherwise are out of step (or pushing an agenda).
Posted on: 2015/6/20 17:54
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Quote:
Hate to disagree..."alien suffrage" is being hotly debated: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/ ... zens-right-vote-john-fund http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/d ... citizens-vote_824243.html http://www.politifact.com/rhode-islan ... us-has-never-been-intrin/
Posted on: 2015/6/20 17:21
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Quote:
Posted on: 2015/6/20 16:45
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
It's hard to get ID in NJ? Illegal aliens can get them from the City of Newark, and I guarantee you Fulop will do the same in JC.
Jeez, voting is a right ONLY FOR CITIZENS. It's not racist, or hateful, to expect people to be vetted to vote. Feeling differently is a sign you want voter fraud. And given that voter fraud was practically invented by Jersey City Democrats it's laughable to think otherwise.
Posted on: 2015/6/20 15:32
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
And on a second note about the difficulty in getting an ID. Even in NJ and NY (pretty liberal states), it's really difficult to get an ID. My girlfriend had to spend hours and multiple trips trying to get an ID in NY because of the crazy amount of stuff you have to bring. You have to have something like 3 forms of ID in order to get an ID. Eventually she just gave up and paid for a passport instead, because the feds don't require hardly anything, except for $$$.
If my girlfriend, who is an affluent white girl, has trouble getting an ID in New York, how is a poor black or hispanic person in Texas going to get an ID easily, if they don't have $$$ and time? If we're going to require ID for voting, then ID needs to be easy and free to get. That's the simple argument right there, and it's the one that most conservatives try to ignore. It's not about voter fraud, it's about "lazy" or "poor" people voting. Edit: Oh and the ONE link you provided that is ACTUAL REAL VOTER FRAUD is because a ballot box went missing and because of intimidation or buying voters, and those WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN STOPPED BY ID ANYWAY http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_4_urbanities-election.html
Posted on: 2015/6/20 14:42
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Boris, every one of your links is for voter registration, which is not the same thing as voting. Anyone can fill out a registration form for Mickey Mouse. Is Mickey Mouse going to show up and vote? No, Mickey Mouse isn't even going to be registered, because they don't exist. Same thing with dead people on voter rolls. Just because they haven't been cleaned off the voter lists doesn't mean that someone is going to vote using their name.
The simple fact is that voter fraud is such a rare occasion that it has absolutely no chance to sway an election in the US. It is telling that every time this argument comes up, it always boils down to these kinds of statements: "If you're too lazy to get an ID, you shouldn't be voting anyway" "You have to show ID to get booze, why can't you get an ID to vote?" Both of which have to do with the difficulty to get an ID, and nothing to do with voter fraud. When faced with the difficulties of obtaining an ID, your response shouldn't be "well I don't want them (disproportionately Democratic voters - blacks, hispanics, college kids) voting anyway" it should be "how do we make it easier to get ID so everyone can vote?" I am not against showing an ID to vote, by any means. But the problem is that every single Republican effort to do this has been a blatant attempt at Democratic vote suppression, making it difficult or expensive to get an ID, or rushing laws into action as soon as possible, to allow as little time as possible before the next election. It's also why these laws tend to cut back on early voting, and close polling stations. Not because there's any link to fraud, but because Democrats tend to vote early in greater numbers. Another tactic is suppressing registrations. I think it was Texas that made a law preventing third party groups from registering new voters, unless they met absurdly strict requirements (again, because Democrats tend to do this more). If Republicans would propose laws that allow a long lead-time for implementation, and allow free and easy to obtain IDs, and stop shutting down polling stations and cutting back on early voting, then I would be all in favor of it. But as it is, every attempt by Republicans to "stop voter fraud" comes as a blatantly obvious to "stop Democratic voters."
Posted on: 2015/6/20 14:38
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Quote:
JPhurst wrote: That?s three lies in one phrase. First of all, what you claim to be ?denial of access? - is not. Republicans ask for a very simple proof of citizenship. How simple? Well, the same one you use to purchase liquor, to board a plane or to attend Hillary CLinton event. Second, there used to be a real, widespread denial of votes in this country. But the real one was committed by Democrats. And Democrats were fighting hard to continue that. XV Amendment was passed along the party lines with no support from either Democrats in the Senate or Democrats in the House. Voting Rights Act of 1965 was opposed by 25% of Democrats in the Senate, and 22% of Democrats in the House. For the Republicans it was much lower 6% and 18%. Third, fraudulent votes are the same as denial of voting. For when you add one fraudulent vote, it cancels out my honest one and that means you denied me my rights. Quote: Pebble wrote: EXPOSED: SCANDAL OF DOUBLE VOTERS 46,000 registered to vote in city & Fla.: New York & Florida 2006: United States Election Assistance Commission Report on Outcomes of Court Cases of Voter Fraud Deceased residents on statewide voter list - New York Voter Registration Fraud In Florida Fraud, discrimination claims roil huge voter registration Thousands of voter registration forms faked, officials say How to Steal an Election: Michigan, California, Missouri ACORN's Rap Sheet The Fraud That Made Milwaukee Famous Or, better yet, here: Voter Fraud in the US: Documented: Part 1 - a looooooong list with sources Now, there are two explanations to why you think that it is ?not a real problem?. First, charitable one, is that you simply unaware. For example, you may get your news from the sources that tend to hide this information from you, so you simply don?t know. Second, less charitable, is that you know about all that, but you don?t think it?s a problem because you assume that your political party would benefit from that fraud.
Posted on: 2015/6/20 3:08
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Quote:
Fun fact. Many idolize the founding fathers but few know that they were disappointed into what American democracy was turning into in their lifetimes. Alexander Hamilton had originally thought of the American republic as an experiment that would test a hypothesis: whether people were capable of establishing a good government from reflection and choice or whether politics were doomed to depend on "accident and force." By the early 1800s, he had concluded that the experiment was a failure. Shortly before John Adams died he wrote: "Public affairs go on pretty much as usual: perpetual chicanery and rather more personal abuse than there used to be...Our American Chivalry is the worst in the world. It has no Laws, no bounds, no definitions; it seems to be all a Caprice." Historian Gordon S. Wood wrote: "All the major revolutionary leaders died less than happy with the results of the Revolution." According to Wood, "Even Jefferson, sanguine and optimistic as he had always been, was reduced to despair in his last years and to what seems to us today to be an embarrassing fire-eating defense of the South and states' rights. He hated the new democratic world he saw emerging in America - a world of speculation, banks, paper money, and evangelical Christianity that he thought he had laid to rest." http://www.lehrmaninstitute.org/history/founders-optimism.html If that's how they felt in the early 1800s, imagine what they would say about today!
Posted on: 2015/6/18 5:37
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Just can't stay away
 
|
this whole issue is nothing but a middle school tinkling contest.
to even REGISTER to vote in NJ, you need government issued ID. and what's the point of voting, when the whole system is rigged anyway. people burp about so-called progressive countries that fine people when they don't vote, well just exactly who is there to vote for? we just had primary, and i yawned at the lack of diversity on the ballot, might as well been the actual election.....this is supposed to be a BIG BIG BIG election year for NJ, big fuckin' whoop.....everybody will just get voted back in, and pat themselves on their backs about what a tough election season it was, cause you know, not having any competition and having to fake it, is exhausting. Democracy is dead, and might as well be abolished. Heh....the precious right to 'vote'....vote for fuckin' what? who?
Posted on: 2015/6/18 4:47
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Quote:
When more than half of Democrats feel that illegal aliens should have the right to vote, well, someone has to uphold the Constitution allowing only citizens to vote. And the majority of Americans want photo id laws upheld for voting. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publi ... al_immigrants_should_vote
Posted on: 2015/6/17 22:25
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
Joined:
2005/6/8 3:24 Last Login : 2022/11/28 0:04 From New Urbanist Area
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
1429
 |
Deniers of access to voting are almost all Republicans. We know why, of course.
Posted on: 2015/6/17 22:20
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Voting fraud deniers are almost all Democrats. We know why, of course.
http://www.rnla.org/votefraud.asp
Posted on: 2015/6/17 22:18
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
Joined:
2013/3/29 21:43 Last Login : 2023/9/5 18:27 From Bergen Hill
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
1980
|
Quote:
The ability to commit fraud in an age where information isn't so freely available makes sense. Claiming that the same is happening now when all the evidence points to otherwise is willful blindness.
Posted on: 2015/6/17 20:54
|
|||
|
Dos A Cero
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
When Jersey City residents question the existence of voter fraud they're ignoring the history of the Democratic machine in Jersey City/Hudson County.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB1000142 ... 3829504578272250730580018
Posted on: 2015/6/17 20:02
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Very well written/researched article on voter fraud:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/10/29/the-voter-fraud-myth
Posted on: 2015/6/17 18:16
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
Joined:
2013/3/29 21:43 Last Login : 2023/9/5 18:27 From Bergen Hill
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
1980
|
Quote:
I can't possibly see an anterior motive for Oracle to want to update the nation's database registry... Lastly, none of this resolves the trap of time cost. The poor individual that would be in need of such an ID card does not have the time to be able to obtain a card. The fact remains that this is still not a real problem yet the call for ID cards acts like it is...
Posted on: 2015/6/17 17:25
|
|||
|
Dos A Cero
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Quote:
You could probably have private business do it for free (Larry Ellison from Oracle offered it up). The bigger question is would we want to. http://www.forbes.com/sites/tarunwadh ... -need-a-national-id-card/
Posted on: 2015/6/17 17:08
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
Joined:
2013/3/29 21:43 Last Login : 2023/9/5 18:27 From Bergen Hill
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
1980
|
Quote:
Yes. His first plane ride was this year. He had bank accounts before, which were opened without a driver's license nor passport. Take a step back and imagine growing up without much money. Then imagine not having the money to buy a car. Then imagine trying to be smart with your money and choosing to not spend money and time getting a license for a car that you can?t afford to own. These people exist, are citizens and also have a right to participate in voting on the elected officials. Yes, there are people that have never left the country. Sure, I replaced my passport because I ran out of pages, but there are lots of people that don't travel. These would be people that find paying for a passport unnecessary since they don't have the money to travel internationally to begin with. As for prescription? I have no idea who you are dealing with at the pharmacy. I can?t recall ever showing a photo ID in order to get medical treatment. Quote:
So what you are saying is that the tax paying public will need to pay money for IDs to be generated in order to combat a fictitious problem??
Posted on: 2015/6/17 16:23
|
|||
|
Dos A Cero
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
I'm not sure I understand you; won't you need to show legal ID/proof of citizenship to get registered to vote?
Posted on: 2015/6/17 16:23
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Quote:
What's wrong with current proof? Over time it should self-correct if there's an issue.
Posted on: 2015/6/17 16:16
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
You still need proof of citizenship to do that, right? And proof of residence as well I would think.
Posted on: 2015/6/17 16:13
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Quote:
Start issuing voter ids for free at polling stations for those that need them.
Posted on: 2015/6/17 16:07
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
You have a 30 year old friend who's never taken a plane ride, never had a prescription, or opened a bank account? Or left the country?
Yup, he needs to get some ID for sure.
Posted on: 2015/6/17 16:00
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
Joined:
2013/3/29 21:43 Last Login : 2023/9/5 18:27 From Bergen Hill
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
1980
|
Quote:
It?s really not that difficult to prove. They?ve been studying it for decades upon decades and it really isn?t something that is pulled off nor attempted all that often. The stories of buses usually amounts to a church picking up poor people to help them get to the polls and others believing that those bused are getting brought in from outside. More often than not, these stories are the modern equivalence of Paul Bunyan tales? Quote:
Why? If you?re a citizen, you should be able to vote. Why should we quantify it by equating it to something that not everyone does? In an absurd bit of life choices, I actually do know someone that had no ID (no driver?s license nor passport) until they reached 30. Why should they not be allowed to vote since they find no reason to obtain an ID? Additional to this is the tax placed on people to obtain these IDs. If we provide them for free, then we?re asking the state to take up an added cost to pay for an additional service. If you force individuals to pay for this, thus not placing the burden on the tax base, you?re adding a poll tax upon individuals that are already poor which further disenfranchises them. It?s an established fact that voter fraud isn?t actually a real problem. As such, the purpose behind the idea of forcing people to take time off from work or force people with no money to start with to spend money really only serves one purpose: prevent them from voting.
Posted on: 2015/6/17 14:12
|
|||
|
Dos A Cero
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
It shouldn't be easier to vote than getting on a plane or opening a checking account.
Posted on: 2015/6/17 0:03
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Democratic leaders propose modernizing NJ voting laws with ‘Democracy Act’
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Quote:
The problem with the myth is that it's very difficult to document many forms of voter fraud. Over the years I've heard stories that vans of people would show up at JC polls, particularly the low turnout elections where a little filler can make a big difference. Occasionally someone would go to vote and be told they had already voted. JC also has a fine tradition of the graveyard vote. Can I prove this? No. Does it sound impossible? Not in JC. I'm a pretty liberal guy, but I don't think showing ID to vote is outrageous.
Posted on: 2015/6/16 23:43
|
|||
|
||||