Bubble_Tea wrote:
I've been living in JC on and off for over 7 years and eat at Ibbys regularly. I have not noticed any major differences in their food.

JCMan8 wrote:
My favorite was when the Two Boots owner essentially said if you don't like his banning movement, go move to Venezuela. Then cried that he was a "human pinata" when that didn't go over so well.

If you're going to have a misplaced martyr complex, at least try to use an Italian food reference next time!

nyrgravey9 wrote:
Quote:

TwoBootsJC wrote:
What???
The price of my rent is set by the market. The price of a space at the Grove Street Plaza isn't. Am I missing something? As I said, the vendors at the plaza are receiving a subsidized, below market rent, plain and simple.

Wait a second, your argument is invalid. If the price of a tent at grove is cheaper than a brick and mortar store, that makes perfect sense actually. The vendor provides everything except the physical space in which to operate. It's a piece of concrete. Of course it's going to cost significantly less!

JadedJC wrote:
I, too, would like to know the full list of 17 whiners, so I can refrain from patronizing them. That must be part of the public record somewhere. Two Boots has already mentioned some of them, and with the exception of La Conguita, all serve pretty mediocre food. Ibbys was good when I first moved to JC a dozen years ago, but the quality has slipped noticeably over the past five years or so. Aaron, your pizza is OK, but I think your bigger problem is an oversaturation of pizza joints in a very small area. If I want empanadas, that's what I'm gonna get. Forcing them from the market isn't gonna drive me to pick up something else at Two Boots or any other restaurant.

fat-ass-bike wrote:
Another scenario could be a mobile tax return van that parks at VV and Hamilton Park during the peak period. I'm sure accountants and tax return processing staff wouldn't be happy.

What about a mobile carwash van parked outside a premised carwash offering an alternative; being the mere fact they come to you !!

What about a drug store van or mobile liquor van or simply look at your own trade or profession, and how would you react if you lost your job and the office closed down !

Note: A man in a van or a man at a stand will always have lower overheads and reduce his margins !

Also isn't it interesting that these 'farmers market and food vans' aren't anywhere to be seen in our lower income high density areas of JC drumming up business ?

vrug wrote:
Quote:

kencares wrote:
Bistro only gets 2.5 stars on yelp:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/the-bistro-at ... y-city?sort_by=rating_asc

Boots does better with 3.5, but still has its share of problems:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/two-boots-jersey-city-2?sort_by=rating_asc

maybe they should both focus more on customer satisfaction and less on their competitors.

This is a valid point:
Mordi's Schnitzel - 4.5 stars: http://www.yelp.com/biz/mordis-schnitzel-truck-jersey-city
Dark Side of the Moo - 4.5 stars: http://www.yelp.com/biz/dark-side-of-the-moo-hoboken
Stella's Empanada's (albeit the Kearny restaurant)- 4.5 stars: http://www.yelp.com/biz/stellas-empanadas-kearny

Doesn't this tell the brick and mortar guys everything they need to know? Slowly but surely, JC is growing out of generic bland food destinations. The activity in this blog, the success of the Hamilton Park BBQ Fest, the JC Project, etc are all testament to that.

If the costs of brick and mortar are too high that it stifles creativity, then at some point those costs will have to come down when more food establishments take to food stands/trucks. It's all supply/demand at the end of the day. Neither would survive without there being demand so nobody should take their patrons for granted. Personally, having moved from Manhattan a year ago, there are still too few restaurants in JC that encourage me to visit for a second time. I will try almost anywhere once, because I dine out to get something that I cannot make myself. But I will only return for a second visit if the restaurant is offering something unique that I then crave.

I don't want to target any particular restaurants with this, but pizza (the way most places in DTJC do it) does not take very much imagination/creativity. For the increasingly health-conscious society that we live it, it's going to be an increasingly infrequent treat.

TwoBootsJC wrote:

1. The food trucks and table vendors represent predatory and unfair competition. How can I say this? It's pretty simple. When we open a restaurant we have to invest hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars. We then have to pay astronomical rents to be close to Grove Plaza. We pay high taxes and fees to Jersey City. The food trucks and table vendors have none of these costs. They pay a small fee and get to parachute in during the busiest hours of the day, the dinner rush. (They can stay away during the slow times.) So, their cost advantage is huge. Imagine running a business where your competitors minimum-wage could be half of yours. That's what this is like. It's completely unfair.

2. Brick-and-mortar stores like ours make an immense contribution to the Jersey City economy. The food trucks and table vendors do not. Fully two thirds of the vendors at the Grove Plaza farmers market are from outside of Jersey City. They haven't built out any restaurants or hired any local contractors. They pay no rent to downtown landlords. They employ no Jersey City residents. They pay almost none of the Jersey City taxes and fees that we pay. Of the 10 vendors at Grove Plaza that are from Jersey City, only four of them have actually built brick-and-mortar establishments. None of them have done so in the pricey downtown area. So even they have a huge cost advantage over us.

3. We are all for fair competition. Several of you have mentioned the opening of Porta next door to Two Boots. I welcome them. They have invested millions in a beautiful new space. They are competing with me fairly. When Roman Nose opened, they took a bite out of my sales. But I welcomed them also. They are nice guys and serve good food. But, as I explained above, a food truck or a guy selling from the table from southern New Jersey or Brooklyn is simply not fair competition. [quote]

If your place is losing so much business to some guy in a tent and some pre-cooked stuff, you've got other issues. Again, where's the 40/40 club, Shake Shack, Num Pang, 7-11, Eataly, Subway, Hill Country, etc. complaining about Madison Sq. Eats? It's a goddamn tent city out there every day for a month at a stretch. Wanna know why I never ate there more than I did? Because you charge 4 bucks a slice. It's nice enough pizza, but when you're as expensive as you are, I weigh out all the options and choose to eat elsewhere. I call in a pickup order to Rustique if it isn't a Monday. Szechuan or Big Chef. Now, with Taqueria open literally on my way home, there's no reason to ever patronize you again.

[quote]4. the owner of Ibby's ... makes some of the best food you could ever want

5. Jeff Favia clearly has many detractors here. I cannot comment as to some of the claims that have been made. I don't know Jeff well enough. What I can say is that he invested approximately $3 million in one of the nicest looking restaurants in Jersey City and has immeasurably improved the way the plaza looks. What if a Hooters had gone in there? I think his views need to be taken seriously.

But so long as there are tables and food trucks at Grove Plaza restauranteurs will be less likely to build.

fat-ass-bike wrote:
Another scenario could be a mobile tax return van that parks at VV and Hamilton Park during the peak period. I'm sure accountants and tax return processing staff wouldn't be happy.

What about a mobile carwash van parked outside a premised carwash offering an alternative; being the mere fact they come to you !!

What about a drug store van or mobile liquor van or simply look at your own trade or profession, and how would you react if you lost your job and the office closed down !

Note: A man in a van or a man at a stand will always have lower overheads and reduce his margins !

Also isn't it interesting that these 'farmers market and food vans' aren't anywhere to be seen in our lower income high density areas of JC drumming up business ?

fat-ass-bike wrote:
Another scenario could be a mobile tax return van that parks at VV and Hamilton Park during the peak period. I'm sure accountants and tax return processing staff wouldn't be happy.

What about a mobile carwash van parked outside a premised carwash offering an alternative; being the mere fact they come to you !!

What about a drug store van or mobile liquor van or simply look at your own trade or profession, and how would you react if you lost your job and the office closed down !

Note: A man in a van or a man at a stand will always have lower overheads and reduce his margins !

Also isn't it interesting that these 'farmers market and food vans' aren't anywhere to be seen in our lower income high density areas of JC drumming up business ?

fat-ass-bike wrote:
Quote:

caj11 wrote:

So what if they are poachers? When you set up a new business, part of that is evaluating the potential competition. If you are locating a restaurant in a decent sized city, you would think that having to compete with food trucks, or tables at market plazas, is something you'd consider when opening a brick-and-mortar restaurant. If your restaurant was off a suburban exit on a highway, not so much. Now, if the laws concerning food trucks had been changed substantially AFTER you opened your brick-and-mortar business, to the point of being detrimental to your business (assuming you could prove that the food trucks and not something else was having an effect on your business), then you have a valid complaint against the local government. Otherwise, it's learn to compete or close up shop.

Interesting - Therefore you wouldn't mind if a mechanic's workshop was littered with mobile mechanic vans around their property offering cheap quotes on repairs only to drive a business out ... once out they move on to the next business to drive out !

This then beckons the need for any bricks and mortar businesses ! We could even have a mobile RV hotel that parks outside the Hilton !

There is a BIGGER picture to this issue and 'pop-up' businesses if they chose to, could be unscrupulous in their business tactics ... It is a tactic similar to how Borders out priced many small book-shops !

caj11 wrote:

So what if they are poachers? When you set up a new business, part of that is evaluating the potential competition. If you are locating a restaurant in a decent sized city, you would think that having to compete with food trucks, or tables at market plazas, is something you'd consider when opening a brick-and-mortar restaurant. If your restaurant was off a suburban exit on a highway, not so much. Now, if the laws concerning food trucks had been changed substantially AFTER you opened your brick-and-mortar business, to the point of being detrimental to your business (assuming you could prove that the food trucks and not something else was having an effect on your business), then you have a valid complaint against the local government. Otherwise, it's learn to compete or close up shop.

Clifton_Hanger wrote:
Truthfully, the only prepared food spot I've ever purchased from is Legal Beans BBQ b/c their brick and mortar location is further away. Seems like Golden Grill and Legal Beans realize the foot traffic is important and that not everyone walks up Newark Ave, Grove etc and put together a mobile stand in a great area. Works for them...

fat-ass-bike wrote:
I view these types of 'pop-up' vendors as poachers.

They are a trend at the moment - they come in, milk the consumer base of a particular area under the guise of providing an alternative product or competition then leave.

This leaves 'fixed' businesses on a financial roller coaster that many can not sustain.

I don't mind both existing, however we need to help sustain small 'fixed' businesses if we don't want a continual turn-over of empty stores. I believe on this occasion, segregation is the cure to maintain a fair playing field

BeatrixKiddo wrote:


You keep bringing up Ibby's like they/he cured cancer, F$CK him and all his homophobic asshole staff.

TwoBootsJC wrote:
Thanks for the support FatAssBike (and others).

I hope those who have attacked me and my business will stop and think for a moment how they'd feel about the issue if they owned a business and were in my shoes or those of Ibby's, or those of the Little Sandwich Shop. I'd dare say that they'd be "whining" too. Unfairness is unfairness and I'm sorry that some folks can't see that.

I'm going to sign off now because being a human pinata is starting to wear me down. I've got pizza to deliver.

Best to all.
Aaron

JadedJC wrote:
I, too, would like to know the full list of 17 whiners, so I can refrain from patronizing them. That must be part of the public record somewhere. Two Boots has already mentioned some of them, and with the exception of La Conguita, all serve pretty mediocre food. Ibbys was good when I first moved to JC a dozen years ago, but the quality has slipped noticeably over the past five years or so. Aaron, your pizza is OK, but I think your bigger problem is an oversaturation of pizza joints in a very small area. If I want empanadas, that's what I'm gonna get. Forcing them from the market isn't gonna drive me to pick up something else at Two Boots or any other restaurant.

user1111 wrote: Quote:

TwoBootsJC wrote: Thanks for the support FatAssBike (and others). I hope those who have attacked me and my business will stop and think for a moment how they'd feel about the issue if they owned a business and were in my shoes or those of Ibby's, or those of the Little Sandwich Shop. I'd dare say that they'd be "whining" too. Unfairness is unfairness and I'm sorry that some folks can't see that. I'm going to sign off now because being a human pinata is starting to wear me down. I've got pizza to deliver. Best to all. Aaron

I will always patronize most places these fools boycotts. Good luck!

TwoBootsJC wrote:
Thanks for the support FatAssBike (and others).

I hope those who have attacked me and my business will stop and think for a moment how they'd feel about the issue if they owned a business and were in my shoes or those of Ibby's, or those of the Little Sandwich Shop. I'd dare say that they'd be "whining" too. Unfairness is unfairness and I'm sorry that some folks can't see that.

I'm going to sign off now because being a human pinata is starting to wear me down. I've got pizza to deliver.

Best to all.
Aaron