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Re: Bloomberg: path 3x less efficient than NYC subway
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Home away from home
 
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You know what's even scarier? If the ability to keep escalators in working order is ANY indication, the future Grove Street station elevator will likely be out of order very, very often. People have commented that the Grove Street station escalators are often out of order because it is an "indoors" system. OK. What's the excuse for the Exchange Place escalators? They seem to be out of order quite often as well.
Posted on: 2014/8/24 12:50
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Re: Bloomberg: path 3x less efficient than NYC subway
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Its been 13 years and 5 billion and counting for the new WC station. Anybody want to take a guess at when it will be finished and what the final cost will be?
Seems amazing to be that the PA can spend so much on WTC while handicap advocates had to sue PATH to get access to Grove Street. Lets see how many decades it takes them to install an elevator.
Posted on: 2014/8/24 12:43
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Re: Bloomberg: path 3x less efficient than NYC subway
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Home away from home
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I agree that MTA would be a better operator of PATH. They have very similar rolling stock and systems, and of course a number of the stations are in MTA territory.
And lets not forget that NJT was the agency that stored most of their rolling stock in the lowest points in NJ during Sandy!
Posted on: 2014/8/24 12:38
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Re: Bloomberg: path 3x less efficient than NYC subway
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Newbie
 
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The states should just trade Hudson County, for Staten Island.
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Posted on: 2014/8/24 4:31
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Re: Bloomberg: path 3x less efficient than NYC subway
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Home away from home
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Agreed. It is truly insane that the fares go up every year, yet service only gets worse.
Posted on: 2014/8/22 20:30
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Re: Bloomberg: path 3x less efficient than NYC subway
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Home away from home
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The possible further reduction of night PATH service really deserves its own thread.
Posted on: 2014/8/22 20:15
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Re: Bloomberg: path 3x less efficient than NYC subway
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Home away from home
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As much as I think the PA has major problems and wastes a ton of money in general, there's a lot of questionable math is this article. The "cost per hour of service" figure covers different things for different systems, so it's comparing apples and oranges.
I have a whole bunch of questions: -- NJT and SEPTA don't own the rails they run on, and the article mentions the fee they pay to use them is much lower than the cost of maintaining the rails themselves. So how much is Amtrak subsidizing them? -- Is the MTA able to spend less on security because it's located within a single police jurisdiction and doesn't need as many of its own cops? Are their security costs really much higher than they look on paper because they're factored into the NYPD budget? Does NJT benefit from Amtrak cops? Do other PA properties like the WTC benefit from the PATH security budget? -- How much of that cost-per-hour figure is paying off things like the new train cars, which in PATH's case were desperately needed (PATH previously had the oldest rolling stock in the nation)? How are capital projects factored into the other systems' calculations? -- The costs of FRA regulatory requirements seem like they would add up much more quickly when applied to a rapid-transit system than intercity commuter rail. They wouldn't go away even if the MTA took over. How much of the cost difference is due to these regulations? I want to see figures for the real total cost of an hour on each system across all parties, not just what its main operator's spending. If the PATH really is this much of an outlier, that would make it easier to see where the PA's funneling money unnecessarily (as opposed to covering the entirety of something that's a shared cost for the other guys). And if the numbers are actually much closer together, it would make it harder for the PA to argue that they have to cut overnight service for "cost reasons." At least Fulop might be able to be a little more vocal now that he's gone ahead and sued the PA over unpaid taxes. The WTC weekend shutdown happened while he was negotiating in advance of that lawsuit.
Posted on: 2014/8/22 19:50
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Re: Bloomberg: path 3x less efficient than NYC subway
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Home away from home
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If it's as important as you claim (and I agree with you), shouldn't Fulop make this a top priority? I don't think he's done a single constructive thing when it comes to Port Authority service. When they shut down WTC, there was nothing but radio silence from him. It was Candice Osbourne who made a stink and got the ferry started.
Posted on: 2014/8/22 19:13
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Re: Bloomberg: path 3x less efficient than NYC subway
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I honestly believe that if PATH cuts back on service at nights, they could severely impact the economic development of JC. Regardless of what many want to claim, a huge part of the population growth and economic improvement of JC is directly tied to former NYCers moving here, as well as outsiders/new arrivals moving here to be close to NYC. If you take away the one easy way that people can get to Manhattan, or make it any more cumbersome, people will just move elsewhere.
Posted on: 2014/8/22 19:09
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Re: Bloomberg: path 3x less efficient than NYC subway
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Home away from home
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Can we just have a underwater bike lane? That way, we don't need to depend on the PATH or it's lame schedule
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Posted on: 2014/8/22 18:31
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Re: Bloomberg: path 3x less efficient than NYC subway
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They aren't insane, they just don't care. And why should they? The system is set up so that they have all of the power and no incentive to keep customers happy. If they didn't have a monopoly on the NJ-NY subway system, there'd be an incentive for another company to come in and build a subway system that actually worked. If PATH actually had to earn their fares, it'd be a completely different ballgame.
Posted on: 2014/8/22 15:48
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Re: Bloomberg: path 3x less efficient than NYC subway
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The Port Authority doesn't care as long as they get to spend a *quarter* of the PATH budget on PA police standing around doing nothing but collecting checks. (Compare the MTA, which spends less than 5% of its budget on "security".) Abolishing the PA police would be one of the best economical decisions for the agency.
Posted on: 2014/8/22 15:12
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Re: Bloomberg: path 3x less efficient than NYC subway
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Home away from home
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Amazing that further limiting overnight service is being considered during a population boom. Just utterly amazing. It should be increased, not decreased. In fact, there is a dramatic need for an increase. Is the PA leadership absolutely insane?
If overnight service decreases, you'll see Jersey City in 5 years consisting entirely of families and transient international workers. It will no longer be a remotely attractive living destination for young people. Which would not be good; all great neighborhoods have a balance of families and young single people.
Posted on: 2014/8/22 15:06
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Re: Bloomberg: path 3x less efficient than NYC subway
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Just can't stay away
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Part of this may be inefficiencies in operations, but I think the largest issue that contributes to cost is that it is an extremely small system. And yet, despite this it still requires quite a lot of capital investment and equipment to support it.
The IT required to run a fare system for a system of 1/4 million riders is only slightly less expensive to run than the IT required for a system of 10million riders, for example. So yeah, a solution would be integrating with a subway system already in place. In fact, it may even contribute to improving service for MTA riders, in some ways. Quote:
Posted on: 2014/8/22 14:44
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Re: Bloomberg: path 3x less efficient than NYC subway
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Home away from home
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where is christie and fulop to defend nj's interest. the path is more like subway service...it is not nj transit or a suburban train service...this is bull
Posted on: 2014/8/22 14:25
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Re: Bloomberg: path 3x less efficient than NYC subway
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Home away from home
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Well, here is a scary quote from the article: "PATH also runs around the clock, whereas NJ Transit and SEPTA don?t, Marino said. The railroad is considering reducing some service at night to give workers more time to maintain the system and reduce repair costs, he said." If the PA reduces nighttime service any more, we are screwed. As it is, it's already barely enough. Recently, I had the distinct displeasure of missing the train right after midnight and had to wait 30+ minutes for the next train to show up. After midnight, these trains run 35 minutes apart. By the time they show up, the platforms are filled with people and the trains get really crowded. According to Mike Marino, PATH?s deputy director, they are already considering further reducing service. Yikes!
Posted on: 2014/8/22 14:17
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Re: Bloomberg: path 3x less efficient than NYC subway
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Home away from home
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The more scrutiny, the better. The Port Authority is ridiculous. Although, I argue that a merger with NJtransit would be a good thing. A merger with MTA would make a lot more sense. NJtransit, while better than the other suburban commuter rails (LIRR and Metro North) in terms of delays, is a provincial railroad that stops all outbound service at like 1:00am. That is absolutely terrible.
At least MTA understands 24/7 transit and subway systems.
Posted on: 2014/8/22 13:57
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Re: Bloomberg: path 3x less efficient than NYC subway
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Home away from home
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how the hell can can you compare PATH to NYC subway. give me a break. the PATH has always been very inefficient which is one reason why it was foisted onto the port authority in excahnge for building wtc.
path should be integrated with nyc subway - this would benefit the entire region
Posted on: 2014/8/22 13:03
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Re: Bloomberg: path 3x less efficient than NYC subway
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Just can't stay away
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"Yet the Port Authority?s PATH train is almost three times as expensive per hour to operate than New York?s City?s rail system."
This isn't surprising at all. They seem to have the reverse Midas touch. Anything they touch, we owe them gold.
Posted on: 2014/8/22 12:43
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Bloomberg: path 3x less efficient than NYC subway
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Quite a regular
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http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014 ... s-as-cars-cover-loss.html
Would be interested to see if anything ever comes of this
Posted on: 2014/8/22 10:02
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