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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Just can't stay away
 
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They haven't been making THE REQUIRED PAYMENTS TO THE PENSION FUND IN OVER 20 YEARS. They are paying out to those who retired. So You are wrong.. That is the Issue obviously flew over your head... Just google it and read up on what the States/ Municipaliteies have been contributing to the Pension fund. My point was BETWEEN THE STATE/MUNICIPALITIES FAILURE TO PAY INTO THE PENSION FUND AND THEIR INCOMPETENT USE OF THE FUNDS ON THE STOCK MARKET AND THE GOVERNORS RAIDING OF THE PENSION FUND TO REFINANCE THE CASINO REVALS DEBT (BY THE WAY WITHOUT THE CONSENT OR AGREEMENT OF THE EMPLOYEES I BELIEVE IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR WHEN AN EMPLOYER USES FUNDS CONTRIBUTED BY AN EMPLOYEE FOR ANYTHING OUTSIDE THE REALM SUCH AS TO REFINANCE DEBT OF ANOTHER COMPANY ETC IT IS CALLEDA CRIME....) is the reason why the pension is in the position they find it in again started by Whittman and continued by each and every Governor since, but hey why blame the responsible party( the State) when you can blame the employee/ union, just so much easier that way.....
Posted on: 2014/6/6 16:59
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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You wrongfully act like the government hasn't been paying anything. In fact, they've been paying these ridiculously bloated pensions to retirees for decades. As far as I know, they've never missed a payment. That money is what would be used for the 401k contributions, only it would be a lot less, so the system would actually be sustainable for the long term. Instead, because of greedy and short-sighted people who referred to 401ks as "selling out the unborn" the whole lot of you will get nothing in 20 years. Congrats.
Posted on: 2014/6/6 16:44
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Just can't stay away
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I've had 401k plans, and I am familiar with how they work.That was not the point I was making. just because on your Paycheck it shows where your employer pays into your 401k plan in this case (State/City) doesn't mean that the State/City will pay. They haven't made the mandatory payments in years to the pension as it is now even after the Governor's reform they still don't make the payments. in theory your 401k plan might sound nice, the reality is just because you change the name of the retirement plan giving the employees more control over how they invest their money DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE STATE/ MUNICIPALITY WILL PAY THEIR SHARE. I don't drink the kook-aid ,again once someone can give me examples /proof that the State/Municipality will pay their required portion then maybe I would have a different opinion until that time stating that it's a better plan isn't accurate . I mean the Governor did after all promise and still states to this day that His pension reform has led to property TAX RELIEF.... I've owned the same house for 10 years now and my TAXES have INCREASED every year....So just like the pension payments please define property tax relief that he speaks of...
Posted on: 2014/6/6 16:32
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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Those auto-pilot/"lifestyle" plans are pretty awesome. You can set a retirement date, say 2045, then assign 100% of your paycheck contribution and employer match, then forget about it. Even the riskier longer-dated plans didn't take much, if any, hit during the downturn, and regularly return 10%+ interest consistently with low-to-no fees. As you say, you can be a complete financial dolt and end up with a great nest egg on retirement. The key is to contribute enough to get your full employer match - if your employer offers a match of up to say 6%, then contribute at least 6% otherwise you're leaving free money on the table.
Posted on: 2014/6/6 15:25
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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The only problem with SS is it still masquerades as a trust fund instead of the entitlement it is. If we just gave up the BS, and got rid of the $117,000 income cap on taxable earnings, problem solved. We wouldn't even have to talk about taxing investment income as much as earned income.
Posted on: 2014/6/6 15:02
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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There is a plan. It is called Social Security. SS went cash flow negative in 2010 (6 years ahead of schedule).
Posted on: 2014/6/6 14:49
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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hero69 wrote: and again, not everyone makes the same amount or the has the same level of investing experience...some people live from paycheck to paycheck which means they might NEVER put money in a 401K program. optional 401K participation is great, but i can clearly understand why unions are resistant to 401k programs. if you are maing $50,000 a year that will not go very far
Posted on: 2014/6/6 14:44
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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and again, are you and your skills necessarily indicative of those of the union membeship. the pension liabilities are unfunded due to negligence on the part of past nj government...as for the private sector, they pulled the wool over almost everyone's eyes...
as far as i am concerned, i don't think employers should be in the business of providing pensions...that should be a government function
Posted on: 2014/6/6 14:30
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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Most of my life I made less than that (even adjusting for inflation). I made sure I participated to at least the match. I just lived really frugally. The pension systems are bust. Nothing can be done about that now. Anyone who is young and paying into a public pension is going to be screwed. Even Congress recognized the issue back in the 1980s. The Thrift Savings Plan was created as the existing Federal pension plan system was not sustainable: The older Civil Service Retirement System is still carrying a massive unfunded liability, however, of $663 billion when fiscal 2010 began.
Posted on: 2014/6/6 13:57
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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and again, not everyone makes the same amount or the has the same level of investing experience...some people live from paycheck to paycheck which means they might NEVER put money in a 401K program.
optional 401K participation is great, but i can clearly understand why unions are resistant to 401k programs. if you are maing $50,000 a year that will not go very far
Posted on: 2014/6/6 13:45
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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I have been participating in a 401k since I was 29 years old. My wife since she was 28. I have had an IRA since I was 12 (my Dad thought it was important that I learn about money). Most of that time my salary was pretty low and so was my wife's. However, the miracle of dividends and compounding interest, a small amount put away (say 6%) builds up to big money over time. It is better to start out young with small contributions than big contributions later in life. Any decent 401k plan (this is something the unions, if they were a little more future time orientated, would make sure this was the case) has a retirement date option. The investments get more and more conservative as you approach the date. So you can be a complete financial dolt, yet still save for retirement by putting your plan on auto-pilot. I hedged part of my wife's plan in one of those funds to gauge performance of the ones I manage. Btw: I would support allowing younger employees to put their Social Security tax into a private account. They could then save for retirement without having any reduction in take-home pay.
Posted on: 2014/6/6 13:12
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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the problem is that many assume that everyone knows how to manage a 401k....also, 401k programs are geared to high wage earners...most union employees do not fall into that category
Posted on: 2014/6/6 12:58
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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You beat me to it. I would add that 401ks are a pretty good deal if your household has a gross adjusted income of $150k or more (which is basically a couple filing jointly who both work middle class jobs). Congress hasn't adjusted the $150k limit for inflation, so now a lot more of us are considered 'rich'; hitting us with a very high burden in income taxes. At the $150k limit you lose tax advantage accounts like the Roth IRA and deductions like the ability passive losses against your active income. The latter has hurt me because I had to put a lot of money back into my rentals (which came from my paycheck) but I can't take any deductions. All that is pretty much left is the 401k (and an HSA if you qualify). With the 401k you can individually put in $17,500 tax deferred. If you quite your job, you can roll it into your IRA, which you have total control over. Even if your a total clod when it comes to investing, there are retirement set date plans that handle all the investment for you. Public service jobs used to be low pay. People took them because the jobs were pretty secure and you got to retire early on a modest pension. Now many public sector jobs pay exceeds the private sector. You can't have both high pay and a generous pension that will pay for your living for 30 years or more. I would rather keep public employees well paid but get rid of the insolvent pension system. You want to retire early? Then you have to live below your means and pile away money into your 401k, HSA, and any other tax deferred / tax free plan you qualify for.
Posted on: 2014/6/6 12:50
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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@Jc344 - Under a 401k, your 10% contribution plus the employee match goes into your ring-fenced account every paycheck, and that money stays invested in your name until you retire. The State can't raid that money. You can directly control where it is invested - and can see how much interest it's earning over the years. If the State doesn't contribute, that would show immediately on your paycheck.
The defined benefit scheme employees are contributing to at the moment, and what the Unions have sold their members, is simply a Ponzi scheme. That 10% contribution is going directly to feed existing pensioners, isn't ring-fenced money, and isn't earning any real interest. There will be no money in that pot in 10 or 20 years to pay ANY pensions. When the Ponzi scheme implodes it will get real ugly - in all likelihood the state will simply cut or stop payouts to pensioners from the depleted pension fund. So yes, the Unions if they were representing the best interests of their members, should have sold out the unborn, and gone with a 401k, instead of colluding with the state to maintain the existing Ponzi scheme. I wouldn't call the Unions greedy. Simply deceitful to their members, and stupid in their actions.
Posted on: 2014/6/6 11:44
Edited by dtjcview on 2014/6/6 12:00:40
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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this is insane. some people assume that because most americans were shoved into 401k programs (and screwed) that the unions should just bend over and have the same done to them
Posted on: 2014/6/6 11:40
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Just can't stay away
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Jcman8, So the Unions should've sold out the unborn and gone to a 401k... Under a 401k the employee contributes a certain percentage and the employer in this case the State matches, if the State hasn't been making the payments to the pension that they are supposed to be making , what in God's name makes you believe they would pay into the 401k plan ?? Christy under his first pension reform required the employees to increase their contributions from 8% to 10 % and mandated by law that the municipalities and the State make the required payments , but yet again Christy is violating his own law and refusing to pay the mandatory contribution... Also if it went to a 401k plan he wouldn't be able to steal millions of dollars from the pension fund to rescue Reval...... imagine if You were paying into either a 401k plan or a pension and the CEO decided he wanted to open a different business so he took money from YOUR PENSION/401K PLAN AND DIDN"T PAY It Back.... OR USED YOUR PENSION FUND TO BAIL OUT ANOTHER OF HIS BUISNESS" You would have a very different opinion. Bottom line this is /was a contractually agreed on benefit ,but I guess the greedy unions should give back ...... If the Unions did that without a fight the Governor would still have to pay into it whether a 401k/or regular pension and based on past performance I would say you have a better chance of having a blizzard in July...
Posted on: 2014/6/6 10:42
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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Nice link. This whole issue is equivalent to one generation kicking a grenade down the road to the next generation. Rinse and repeat for several cycles. At some point, the grenade blows up.
Posted on: 2014/6/6 3:02
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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Shockingly, slamming what little is left of the middle class is generally not the best option.
Posted on: 2014/6/6 2:30
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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Good commentary on the topic.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vide ... d_on_public_pensions.html Quote:
Posted on: 2014/6/6 1:53
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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The most phenomenal part of it all is that you look at it, you opine that this is all because special interests can buy or bully the government, - and then you go and vote for the people who promise to (a) increase the role of the government in economy, (b) bail out those who did buying and bullying. And then you sit and rack your brain trying to figure out whose fault it is. Like a clockwork.
Posted on: 2014/6/6 1:53
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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It is true that Whitman started a very bad trend. However, if you had read the article you'd see that all of this damage could have been stopped in 2006. And current union employees would have kept their pensions in full. All that was needed to was end pensions for new hires and convert them to 401ks, as proposed by Democrat Steve Sweeney. Instead the unions called the Democrat a rat, blocked any kind of reform, and now it is too late to fix this.
Posted on: 2014/6/6 1:40
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Just can't stay away
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The reason the pension is the way it is is because the Governors starting with Whitman have not paid into the pension, and have even taken millions of dollars out of it to either to balance the budget or as our illustrious current governor did to rescue Reval ...And still the Governor doesn't want to pay the legally required pension payment, a law He himself pushed through the legislature
Posted on: 2014/6/6 1:35
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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sure, blame the unions for all the problems...most union employees don't make it on the front end, but on the back end. if an employees has worked two jobs and is vested, why shouldn't that employee get what he/she is entitled to.. isn't that how it works in the private sector
Posted on: 2014/6/6 1:28
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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What banking "disaster"? The banks were bailed out, CEOs got their bonuses per usual, and the Fed responded with a multi-year giveaway of cheap money (quantitative easing, anyone?). This was a G-dsend to Wall Street, and as a consequence banks are bigger, and more impossible to prosecute, than ever.
Posted on: 2014/6/6 0:10
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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The other issue is people receiving multiple pensions. It has been suggested putting a 99% tax on any pension $ above the highest single pension in the state. Money would go back into the pension fund.
I have talked to public workers about the pension issue. The leadership has been telling these guys that the pension system financials are in really good shape (which is untrue). A lot of these guys are going to get a nasty surprise during retirement when the money runs out.
Posted on: 2014/5/22 16:56
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Re: Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Because the banking disaster left that unclear? What it shows is that letting special interests buy or bully our governments, be they capital or labor, leads to disaster.
Posted on: 2014/5/22 16:39
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Star Ledger: Greedy NJ Unions Responsible for Pension Mess
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Home away from home
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Great article that hits the nail on the head about our broken pension system.
In 2006 Democrat Steve Sweeney saw that the giveaways received by public sector union employees were unsustainable. And far above what private sector union employees received. So he proposed meaningful reform. Current workers keep their benefits but new hires get 401ks. In fact this reform has been adopted in several states. How did our greedy unions respond? They called Sweeney a rat and brought out their rat float. 10000 public employees protested (during a work day of course), and meaningful reform got shot down. Whose the rat now unions? Their greed has crippled the pension system for all of their members. Goes to show that unbridled greed can have disastrous consequences. http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... smell_a_rat_mulshine.html
Posted on: 2014/5/22 16:23
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