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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Home away from home
 
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We never signed the contract . . . because it would've screwed NJ taxpayers . . .
Posted on: 2014/5/19 1:43
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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This would have been in the contract that some knucklehead on our side signed up to - We obviously didn't do our due diligence when we signed the dotted line - It happens all the time with huge penalties if you try to get out of them - The blame game goes to the person who signed the contract ... and who was he or her?
Posted on: 2014/5/19 1:31
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Spin? Sorry, the facts remain. I agree we need a tunnel. I don't agree that while the 'core' and the 'strategic' area will benefit that NJ taxpayers will carry the burden of the inevitable cost overrun of billions of dollars. Especially given that NY and NYC aren't paying a penny beyond their Port Authority contribution, while they expect NJ to pay a portion on their own besides the NJ Port Authority contribution and 100% of the gigantic cost overrun.
Posted on: 2014/5/19 1:24
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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You have to give credit where credit is due - like honesty. Your partner is very lucky and must love you, as you can put a positive spin on anything. In regards to the Macy thing - who is managing the project and did some knucklehead on our side forget to read the fine print about overruns and contractual agreements and guarantees ? The detail is in the contract and I can only surmise someone from Trenton stuffed-up big time.
Posted on: 2014/5/19 1:15
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Yup, I've admitted I'm a Christie fan and supporter. But, please tell JCList how NJ should have carried the weight of every single penny of cost overruns for the Tunnel to Macy's Basement to the benefit of the other stake holders, to the tune of billions of NJ taxpayer dollars, while the Fed and NY get off scott free.
Posted on: 2014/5/19 1:09
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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The official spokesperson for Christie's actions on JClist is Monroe and _ _ _ _ _ _ .
Christie is some peoples eyes is the new messiah ... or could it be they have a vested interest in him being in power? NJ needs more swinging voters to dump self-serving, big business funded politicians, regardless who they are affiliated with. What we need in this country is more political parties contesting every seat on all government levels - this 2 party duopoly sucks and its nothing more then a coin toss. I'd even vote for a member of the Pirate Party if we had one, just for a change.
Posted on: 2014/5/19 0:36
Edited by fat-ass-bike on 2014/5/19 0:54:01
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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They have been. Do you think De Blasio can reverse that trend?
Posted on: 2014/5/18 22:12
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Nonsense, and now that Schumer is lobbing hard to divert money from Sandy victims to build it is only more proof. Note the name 'access to the region core'. Where exactly is the 'core' they speak of? Don't you know that all the money earned by commuters gets taxed by NY State, and the workers get a tax credit against their NJ taxes? And yes, even if your spouse works in NJ or another state, their income is added to the income of the NY worker (domiciled in NJ) for tax purposes?
Posted on: 2014/5/18 21:54
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Nobody in New York cares if New Jersey residents have access to the high paying white collar office jobs in Manhattan. The jobs aren't leaving Manhattan. The ARC tunnel was a way to bring more money and jobs to New Jersey, not a way to bring money to New York.
Posted on: 2014/5/18 21:38
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Your post shows a lack of understanding of how the (corrupt) Port Authority works. Why do the PATH trains run with a PA subsidy? Because NJ agreed to let NY get the benefit of the original WTC building. It was a quid pro quo. Why did the PA allow Christie to use the money for the Pulaski Skyway? Because NY wanted more PA money for the Freedom Tower. At least the Skyway is a transportation project, a feeder to the Holland Tunnel. Exactly what transportation function does the Freedom Tower provide, other than a cash cow for NY taxes? And Christie didn't squash the tunnel because of upfront NJ costs. NJ was paying for a nice chunk, along with its half of the Port Authority money. NY was only paying its half of the Port Authority money, and not a single red cent of NYC or NY State money. And NJ, alone, was on the hook for the huge, inevitable, cost overruns. (Much of which would go to NY construction firms, natch).
Posted on: 2014/5/18 20:58
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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I agree that Christie killed the tunnel because he didn't want to pay for any of it, and yes it was likely to go over budget. I'd say he was very straight-forward about his reasons.
That doesn't change the fact that all such plans go over budget, yet the infrastructure is desperately needed, and would have heavily benefitted NJ residents and businesses. Or how the longer we wait to build a project like this, the more expensive it will be. Christie's decision to redirect funding away from Port Authority to highway projects outside PA's mandate was not "brilliant," it was a craven misuse of funds for projects that Christie didn't want to pay for. It shows yet again how the PA is so often a pushover to NJ's and NY's governors.
Posted on: 2014/5/18 20:07
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Silly commentary. Christie killed the tunnel because the inevitable (Big Dig, Seattle Big Bertha) projects run way over in costs and not a SINGLE stakeholder offered a single penny to NJ to share the pain. In fact, NY didn't and hasn't offered a dime to the project whatsoever, base cost or overrun costs. And given that the NY/NJ Port Authority used our funds for the Freedom Tower project (not an interstate transportation project last I saw across the river) it was entirely appropriate to use that money for transportation infrastructure that leads directly to the tunnel. And if anything things that the Transportation Trust Fund (created by a Republican) is damaged by the gas tax not being raised consider that a) It's not a lock boxed fund-money has been diverted over the years by both Dem and Repub Governors to other needs-so it's not a taxing issue, it's a 'spending outside transportation' issue and b) the fact that we pay 8.4X the national average for road repairs, much through usurious 'prevailing wage' handcuffs the Democrats have forced upon us means each dollar get shrunk by at least half in value/benefit. So it's a Democratic 'special interest' tax that is too high, not the gas tax being too low. But I agree with the assessment of the PA, it needs to be reformed. But where is a mention of Governor Cuomo?
Posted on: 2014/5/18 19:11
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Christie nixed the tunnel project so he could divert the funds to pay for needed road repairs without raising the gasoline tax which he had irresponsibly promised not to raise in the campaign even though the roads were crumbling.
Similarly, he manipulated the Port Authority into paying for the Pulaski Skyway rebuild, even though it is not an interstate facility. The Port Authority spends billions on developing real estate and building palatial stations while it's basic mandate--airports, PATH service--crumble. Diverting PA funds to the Skyway so Christie can campaign for President without having raised taxes is another public cost of that man's ambition.
Posted on: 2014/5/18 16:11
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I live by the river.
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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those two tunnels are NEEDED. $20 billion today with overruns or $100 Billion in 203? with overruns!
Posted on: 2014/5/18 15:57
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Home away from home
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We need more major infrastructure projects to help employ people and get the auxiliary jobs and money circulating.
We need project like the highway and rail improvements and yes even another tunnel or bridge. So long as no-one is ripping off the system I'm all for it - We've had recessions and depressions and every time it helped when the government announced capital works programs to get out of it.
Posted on: 2014/5/18 14:55
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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In timely fashion, the Star Ledger editorial board comes out with a hilarious story today. First, they applaud Chuck Schumer for suggesting we take Sandy recovery money from needy victims (and I'm sure he means NJ recovery money!) to use towards a tunnel.
(Credit to the SL for stating the obvious-that it was NY's refusal to contribute a single penny to the original plan that led to its demise). Christie's decision to use some of the canceled funds to pay for the needed Pulaski Skyway access to the Holland Tunnel was brilliant-a much delayed project that helped offset the PA's constant NYC real estate investments with something that benefits NJ residents. But to back a plan, as they said in the OpEd, to just start it without a finance plan in place (let alone one that is equitable to NJ) is the height of absurdity. AMTRAK 'should' pick up 'some' of the bill? They have said NO every time they've been asked, and besides they're broke too! And the looney NJ advocates not only say it will cost only 1 billion for one additional tunnel (put down the crack pipe, folks) but that money should come from NJ Sandy relief money? Tell that to the people who lost their homes-give up relief money to save NY taxpayers paying their fair share of the tunnel cost? Why doesn't Schumer advocate extending the 7 line to Secaucus, which solves most of the problems at a small cost? Because it would cost NY, not NJ. To Schumer and NY-give us a kiss, we liked to be kissed when you're trying to screw us. Star Ledger, we'll miss your stupid OpEd's when you shutter the doors in a year or two. http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... unnel.html#incart_m-rpt-1
Posted on: 2014/5/18 13:25
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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I don't like the fact that any party member, Dem or Republican, does a better job than ours at bringing back our tax money from DC. Just so happens that our Senators have been Dems for decades doing a lousy job of it. As far as highway costs, yes, it takes into account what you said, which is why I didn't expect us to be the average-but 8.4 times is horrific, and plenty has to do with Democratic supported 'prevailing wage' costs. As long as the work would be done to code (as required by law) I don't care if non-union work does it. No better example was the billions of dollars wasted in the NJ State School building authority scandal. Imagine all the school facilities that never were built because of the thievery of the unions and special interests (and those were on both sides of the aisle).
Posted on: 2014/5/18 11:15
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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I love your heads I win tails you lose consistency. It's our incompetent Dem senators at fault, not those greedy hypocritical rural red state GOP congressmen who are more than happy to take our tax money as their pork. As for cost per mile, is that adjusted for per lane, cost of living, and for climate? I can imagine a mile of 2 lane in Mississippi being pretty cheap to repair vs one of 6 lane here.
Posted on: 2014/5/18 5:35
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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there is a reason designers give stars clothing for free! enuff said
Posted on: 2014/5/18 0:49
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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NY didn't put in a single red cent on their own. And who benefits from all those workers paying NY income taxes from those high paying Manhattan jobs? Not NJ. And sales taxes from NJ commuters buying bagels and lunch. And supporting NY based businesses. But NY refused to pay a penny, either for the initial cost, or any overage. Frankly, if our Senators did their job, we'd have had a lot more Federal support, but for decades we've been at the bottom of receiving money back from the Feds. Maybe Booker and Menendez can do their jobs and bring back our tax dollars-it's their job to do so. They've failed so far, going back to Bradley and before.
Posted on: 2014/5/17 21:37
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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NJ needs the tunnel far more than NY. It woud have been nice for NY to chip in for cost overruns, but whose economy is gonna be affected more by not having a second tunnel. also, its njtransit that uses the tunnel; does the mta or lirr run trains through the tunnel under the hudson
Posted on: 2014/5/17 21:24
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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But nooo! We should build another tunnel into NYC, its the only solution to our congestion. Spending billions of dollars is the o ly logical thing to do.
Posted on: 2014/5/17 21:23
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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The problem is not that our gas tax is too low, it's that we spend 8.4 times the national average for highway repair/mile. 8.4 times! Now, I understand that some is due to the congestion and density we have. But just imagine if we could amend the 'prevailing wage' union penalty we pay for this-if we could only be 4X the national average we could more than DOUBLE the number of repairs.
Posted on: 2014/5/17 20:55
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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If the choice is between crumbling roads & bridges and a few cents raise in the gas tax, I'll take the latter. The first time I was in Europe and took a boat on the Thames I was shocked! Their bridges weren't piles of rust, they were even painted underneath! I've been hearing "starve the beast" since 1980 at least, and somehow it always ends us up with crumbling schools and roads plus a pile of new debt. I have family in California, one of whom is a public school principal, and it's a crime what Prop 13 did to education in that state, all in the name of low taxes. If you want to live outside society move to Mogadishu.
Posted on: 2014/5/17 20:41
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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The flushing of the project was on its own merits, Christie has said he'd have continued with a tunnel project if the inevitable overruns were shared equitably. As far as the gas tax, isn't it great we have at least ONE area where we're not leading the USA in taxes? We're in the top 3 for overall taxes, why all the focus on one area that keeps us from being number one?? But thank God some of that money ended up helping NJ cover the vast expense of repairing the Pulaski Skyway, as it was leveraged by NJ's contribution of the WTC rebuild. Generally, we've gotten screwed by the PA. Thankfully we didn't get hosed by helping rebuild the Tappan Zee, which was strategically built originally OUTSIDE the PA zone because NY wanted to keep the toll revenue for themselves. But the Seattle project is a good lesson that you can never project just how screwed up a large construction job can get. While I don't think this will reach 'Big Dig' scale, it's going to approach it.
Posted on: 2014/5/17 20:18
Edited by Monroe on 2014/5/17 20:42:51
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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Christie got to take the federal transportation money that would have gone to the tunnel and dump it in the state transportation fund, thus allowing him to avoid raising the gas tax, and the label of "tax raiser", the kiss of death for his national ambitions with the GOP faithful.
This was a classic example of the PA shirking what they were created to do, what's supposed to be their core mission: regional transportation. They should have been building this tunnel with their Hudson crossing profits, not spending ten billion building a white elephant "dick in the sky" at ground zero.
Posted on: 2014/5/17 17:21
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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When Christie pulled the plug on the Tunnel to Macy's Basement
NY said NO! to shouldering even a penny of the inevitable costs. (Other than their shared NY/NJ Port Authority money, NY had not given a single penny to the initial funding, let alone any cost overruns). The Port Authority of NY/NJ said NO! to shouldering even a penny of the inevitable costs. The Feds, after being given time by Christie to come up with solutions, only offered low interest LOANS, not grants, to aid with the inevitable costs. There you have it, this information has been widely disseminated, is public knowledge, and easily confirmed.
Posted on: 2014/5/17 16:37
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Re: Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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I originally was against the tunnel because I heard the same thing as you. That NJ would have to pay 100% of the cost overruns. Anyone with sense can guarantee that there would be massive cost overruns. But then others on this board said that was not true and NJ would only have to pay a set amount and Christie nixed the project just to give money to the Port Authority. So now I don't know what to believe.
Posted on: 2014/5/17 16:22
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Seattle tunnel will end up with frightening cost overruns . . .
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And they're fighting over the inevitable repair/overrun costs.
Interesting read for those who favored NJ shouldering 100% of any cost overruns for the Tunnel to Macy's Basement, as it was structured to do. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/S ... 70315425370?mg=reno64-wsj
Posted on: 2014/5/17 16:16
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