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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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I don't smoke and never have, but I think this proposed law is just silly and probably difficult to enforce. However, whenever it does get enforced, hopefully people caught smoking in parks will be slapped with fines, and if the proceeds from those fines are spent strictly on the upkeep of the parks, I'm all for it.

I'm sure there's already a law against dropping a cigarette butt anywhere out in public, but as we can see, it doesn't seem to be well-enforced either.

Posted on: 2013/9/24 23:44
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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ripple wrote:
This is simply a publicity grab. Jersey City has many public safety and quality of life issues, and this isn't one of the more important ones. Let the police focus on getting the drivers under control.


This is a high quality of life issue argued in every City, County, State and Country in the world ... its a global quality of life issue and not just a local JC one. Police shouldn't have to focus on this issue, it should be a voluntary compliance effort of individuals.

I'd even take it further and suggest that smokers need to have some sort of mini cigarette butt receptacle they need to carry (which could be incorporated into the packet), like dog poop bags for dog owners.

2 BILLION BUTTS litter our street EACH day ... Smokers aren't good at voluntary compliance !

Posted on: 2013/9/24 23:42
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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I didn't say it wasn't, but I am annoyed that the council had no idea until I mentioned it two weeks ago about the estimated bills. After I made my comment, Lavarro questioned the acting B.A. That is when the acting B.A. said the city sent out estimated bills. Did the city get the permission of the council? No. This council talked about the budget, not about smoking or even sick days during the campaign. Let them keep their campaign promises. It shouldn't be a member of the public (me) informing the council that the administration sent out the first half 2014 without council approval.

Posted on: 2013/9/24 22:08
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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Yvonne wrote:
First, I am not a smoker, or even a former smoker, I bring up the budget because this council said nothing when the Fulop mailed out the first half of 2014. The administration needs the council's approval. When I brought this up two weeks ago, the Acting Business Administrator said it was estimated bills. Under the Faulkner Act, only the council can approve the spending of a budget included estimated budgets. So I want to council to do its job and not worry about things outside its job.


Passing such ordinances is within the purview of the council.

Posted on: 2013/9/24 21:33
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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First, I am not a smoker, or even a former smoker, I bring up the budget because this council said nothing when the Fulop mailed out the first half of 2014. The administration needs the council's approval. When I brought this up two weeks ago, the Acting Business Administrator said it was estimated bills. Under the Faulkner Act, only the council can approve the spending of a budget included estimated budgets. So I want to council to do its job and not worry about things outside its job.

Posted on: 2013/9/24 21:28
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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nyrgravey9 wrote:
No, I get that. And I agree we as the citizens need to keep hammering away for one. But it doesn't mean, in the interim, we can't address other, admittedly less important, aspects.

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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

nyrgravey9 wrote:
Once again, the "we can't walk and chew gum at the same time" argument.

Multi tasking, people!

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
We are banning smoking in parks and requiring sick days for employers, the city is doing everything except produce a budget for 2014. Then that it is difficult to do if you sent out the first six months with the built in 8% tax crease. You can't cut if the spending if the money is half spent.


They aren't multi-tasking (addressing the budget). That's the point.


I don't think she was arguing otherwise.

Posted on: 2013/9/24 21:14
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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Vigilante wrote:
Then you won't mind when I smoke in the children's playground?


It behooves every adult who lives in the modern world to refrain from smoking around kids, but looking at the status-quo, I don?t think a shortage of legislation is burdening children in the playground with unreasonable health risks due to smoking.

Posted on: 2013/9/24 20:39
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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No, I get that. And I agree we as the citizens need to keep hammering away for one. But it doesn't mean, in the interim, we can't address other, admittedly less important, aspects.

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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

nyrgravey9 wrote:
Once again, the "we can't walk and chew gum at the same time" argument.

Multi tasking, people!

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
We are banning smoking in parks and requiring sick days for employers, the city is doing everything except produce a budget for 2014. Then that it is difficult to do if you sent out the first six months with the built in 8% tax crease. You can't cut if the spending if the money is half spent.


They aren't multi-tasking (addressing the budget). That's the point.

Posted on: 2013/9/24 20:35
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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nyrgravey9 wrote:
I have the right to fart next to your face if I want to. There's no documented cases of that causing anyone cancer or ill health. I won't be inhibiting any of your rights by doing so, and it's no against any laws I'm aware of.



That would classify as less of a right than just an unusual cry for attention.

Posted on: 2013/9/24 20:27
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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nyrgravey9 wrote:
Once again, the "we can't walk and chew gum at the same time" argument.

Multi tasking, people!

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
We are banning smoking in parks and requiring sick days for employers, the city is doing everything except produce a budget for 2014. Then that it is difficult to do if you sent out the first six months with the built in 8% tax crease. You can't cut if the spending if the money is half spent.


They aren't multi-tasking (addressing the budget). That's the point.

Posted on: 2013/9/24 20:20
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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Once again, the "we can't walk and chew gum at the same time" argument.

Multi tasking, people!

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
We are banning smoking in parks and requiring sick days for employers, the city is doing everything except produce a budget for 2014. Then that it is difficult to do if you sent out the first six months with the built in 8% tax crease. You can't cut if the spending if the money is half spent.

Posted on: 2013/9/24 20:17
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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Frank_M wrote:
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nyrgravey9 wrote:
There's a BIG difference between smoking and all the things you mentioned. Someone smelling bad doesn't affect my health (might make me nauseous hahah). Someone eating junk food doesn't affect my health. Someone else's smoking does. Now, the debate about smoking in an open air space definitely has wiggle room, but you have to acknowledge the following first:

Smoking causes cancer. Period. Second smoke causes cancer. Period. Cite all the research you want that proves it's not 100% link, but any idiot with an IQ higher than celery knows it to be true.



Yes, the increased risk of developing lung cancer and other health problems from smoking has been well documented, but in the case of smoking outdoors and magnitude of the threat to others, there isn?t just wiggle room, there are millions of cubic feet of air and extremely high air-change rates to go with it. Further, a non-smoking person would be exposed to this diluted smoke only under very specific circumstances, and only for a very short duration. In fact, why prohibit smoking in places where people are usually further away from each other?like in a park?instead of on the sidewalk where we?re confined to a smaller area?

The only realistically potential benefit I see in this kind of prohibition is the reduction of peoples? exposure to the habit of smoking, not smoke itself. Likewise, Michael Bloomberg?s proposed soft-drink ban might have found its success through a reduction in the public?s exposure to the act of over-consumption, not just by denying people a really big cola. I still think both efforts are out of place in a supposedly free country. Heck, they're even out of place in so called western European "nanny states," where people simply make better health decisions on their own.


Then you won't mind when I smoke in the children's playground?

Posted on: 2013/9/24 20:13
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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We are banning smoking in parks and requiring sick days for employers, the city is doing everything except produce a budget for 2014. Then that it is difficult to do if you sent out the first six months with the built in 8% tax crease. You can't cut if the spending if the money is half spent.

Posted on: 2013/9/24 20:07
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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Well, like i tell all my smoker friends who insist it's their right to smoke in public. I'm going to provide an extreme example, and it's quite humorous, but I think makes the point, and I stick by it.

I have the right to fart next to your face if I want to. There's no documented cases of that causing anyone cancer or ill health. I won't be inhibiting any of your rights by doing so, and it's no against any laws I'm aware of.

But you wouldn't really like that now, would you?

That's how a non smoker feels. Get over it.

Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
Quote:

nyrgravey9 wrote:
There's a BIG difference between smoking and all the things you mentioned. Someone smelling bad doesn't affect my health (might make me nauseous hahah). Someone eating junk food doesn't affect my health. Someone else's smoking does. Now, the debate about smoking in an open air space definitely has wiggle room, but you have to acknowledge the following first:

Smoking causes cancer. Period. Second smoke causes cancer. Period. Cite all the research you want that proves it's not 100% link, but any idiot with an IQ higher than celery knows it to be true.



Yes, the increased risk of developing lung cancer and other health problems from smoking has been well documented, but in the case of smoking outdoors and magnitude of the threat to others, there isn?t just wiggle room, there are millions of cubic feet of air and extremely high air-change rates to go with it. Further, a non-smoking person would be exposed to this diluted smoke only under very specific circumstances, and only for a very short duration. In fact, why prohibit smoking in places where people are usually further away from each other?like in a park?instead of on the sidewalk where we?re confined to a smaller area?

The only realistically potential benefit I see in this kind of prohibition is the reduction of peoples? exposure to the habit of smoking, not smoke itself. Likewise, Michael Bloomberg?s proposed soft-drink ban might have found its success through a reduction in the public?s exposure to the act of over-consumption, not just by denying people a really big cola. I still think both efforts are out of place in a supposedly free country. Heck, they're even out of place in so called western European "nanny states," where people simply make better health decisions on their own.

Posted on: 2013/9/24 18:52
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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nyrgravey9 wrote:
There's a BIG difference between smoking and all the things you mentioned. Someone smelling bad doesn't affect my health (might make me nauseous hahah). Someone eating junk food doesn't affect my health. Someone else's smoking does. Now, the debate about smoking in an open air space definitely has wiggle room, but you have to acknowledge the following first:

Smoking causes cancer. Period. Second smoke causes cancer. Period. Cite all the research you want that proves it's not 100% link, but any idiot with an IQ higher than celery knows it to be true.



Yes, the increased risk of developing lung cancer and other health problems from smoking has been well documented, but in the case of smoking outdoors and magnitude of the threat to others, there isn?t just wiggle room, there are millions of cubic feet of air and extremely high air-change rates to go with it. Further, a non-smoking person would be exposed to this diluted smoke only under very specific circumstances, and only for a very short duration. In fact, why prohibit smoking in places where people are usually further away from each other?like in a park?instead of on the sidewalk where we?re confined to a smaller area?

The only realistically potential benefit I see in this kind of prohibition is the reduction of peoples? exposure to the habit of smoking, not smoke itself. Likewise, Michael Bloomberg?s proposed soft-drink ban might have found its success through a reduction in the public?s exposure to the act of over-consumption, not just by denying people a really big cola. I still think both efforts are out of place in a supposedly free country. Heck, they're even out of place in so called western European "nanny states," where people simply make better health decisions on their own.

Posted on: 2013/9/24 18:44
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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ripple wrote:
This is simply a publicity grab. Jersey City has many public safety and quality of life issues, and this isn't one of the more important ones. Let the police focus on getting the drivers under control.


yes, the how can we do more than one thing at a time argument.

Posted on: 2013/9/24 16:15
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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Why stop at banning cigarettes in parks? Why not just make them illegal? I don't know a single smoker who doesn't think throwing their cigarette butts all over the place is socially accepted. The world is their ashtray. Banning cigarettes in parks is a good start.

Posted on: 2013/9/24 16:05
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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This is simply a publicity grab. Jersey City has many public safety and quality of life issues, and this isn't one of the more important ones. Let the police focus on getting the drivers under control.

Posted on: 2013/9/24 16:04
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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There's a BIG difference between smoking and all the things you mentioned. Someone smelling bad doesn't affect my health (might make me nauseous hahah). Someone eating junk food doesn't affect my health. Someone else's smoking does. Now, the debate about smoking in an open air space definitely has wiggle room, but you have to acknowledge the following first:

Smoking causes cancer. Period. Second smoke causes cancer. Period. Cite all the research you want that proves it's not 100% link, but any idiot with an IQ higher than celery knows it to be true.

The fact that anyone consciously engages in smoking is beyond me. Talk about fully preventable sicknesses!

Oh, and the fact that health insurance companies have to coverage smoking related illnesses is completely beyond me as well. But now im off on a tangent, forgive me.

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Frank_M wrote:
The suggested magnitude of the fines, and particularly their escalating severity, seems disproportionate. A potential thousand dollar fine for smoking outdoors in a park?where the most significant things a smoker might affect are the hypersensitivies of the easily offended?is simply unfair. That?s basically hitting somebody with a fine for smelling bad. Legislating away unpopular behavior that has been on nothing but a steady decline for years, looks to me like an easy marketing stunt.

Perhaps we could be a healthier city if there were prohibitions related to the consumption, distribution, or sale of food that isn?t particularly nutritious, but public opinion hasn?t turned against that particular vice in the numbers required to eagerly dismiss its impact on our civil liberties. But we hate smoking, so who cares?

Posted on: 2013/9/24 16:02
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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The suggested magnitude of the fines, and particularly their escalating severity, seems disproportionate. A potential thousand dollar fine for smoking outdoors in a park?where the most significant things a smoker might affect are the hypersensitivies of the easily offended?is simply unfair. That?s basically hitting somebody with a fine for smelling bad. Legislating away unpopular behavior that has been on nothing but a steady decline for years, looks to me like an easy marketing stunt.

Perhaps we could be a healthier city if there were prohibitions related to the consumption, distribution, or sale of food that isn?t particularly nutritious, but public opinion hasn?t turned against that particular vice in the numbers required to eagerly dismiss its impact on our civil liberties. But we hate smoking, so who cares?

Posted on: 2013/9/24 15:51
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
I think its a stupid idea considering its a public area and its still legal to smoke ... I'd be for a ban near picnic tables / BBQ spots and children's playground areas.
....


Agreed.

I quit smoking a few years ago, but never understood the parks ban. It discriminates against the poor, who are more like to smoke. It forces a more sedentary lifestyle for those in most need of exercise. And there is no proven health benefit to non-smokers of a parks ban. Plus banning e-cigs as well? That's just wrong and stupid. For many they are way to quit - myself included. Why does the City want to stop that?

Posted on: 2013/9/24 8:00
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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I think its a stupid idea considering its a public area and its still legal to smoke ... I'd be for a ban near picnic tables / BBQ spots and children's playground areas.
Alternatively have a designated area for smokers with trash and butt bins provided would simplify it.

This said, NY is way ahead of us:

http://www.governor.ny.gov/press/0510 ... -Zones-Expanded-NYS-Parks

Posted on: 2013/9/24 7:46
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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Fine, fine fine.

This is great and honky dory. They are doing everything but cutting spending and the hiring of incompetent hacks.

Posted on: 2013/9/24 1:06
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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Awesome!

Posted on: 2013/9/24 0:29
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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This is awesome. Hopefully it will pass and it will be enforced. Even when I was an active smoker, I supported anti-smoking laws. In public places, smoking is such a selfish habit.


Posted on: 2013/9/23 23:43
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Re: Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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That's fine with me .. Wish they could ban dog piss somehow. Realized 50% of Van Vorst Park smells like it .. Even the corner opposite the dog run. Might be human urine though .. Ya never know.

Posted on: 2013/9/23 23:10
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Smoking would be banned from Jersey City parks under councilman's plan
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By Terrence T. McDonald/The Jersey Journal

Jersey City parks may soon be smoke-free, thanks to the efforts of a City Councilman who is a nicotine addict himself.

Councilman at large Rolando Lavarro, the nine-member body?s president, is sponsoring a measure up for introduction at Wednesday?s council meeting that would ban smoking at the city?s 67 parks and recreational areas.

Lavarro, a smoker, noted the ?irony? of his sponsorship of the measure at tonight?s council caucus.

?While I know how hard it is to lose another place to smoke, it?s really the right thing to do,? he said.

More

Posted on: 2013/9/23 22:38
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