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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
 
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Now just continue extending it westward and have it properly divide Downtown JC from Bergen Lafayette.
Posted on: 2011/9/14 0:46
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
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Quote:
"Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will cost $20 million for an ugly 30-foot tall wall (in a recession)" took some pictures of the non-pretty sides  
Posted on: 2011/9/13 23:48
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
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Quote:
you make a good point. thing is still damn ugly, though.
Posted on: 2011/9/13 23:01
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Newbie
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The subject of this thread is that the memorial "will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!" Which is a fallacy.
Posted on: 2011/9/13 21:14
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
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Sure, it doesn't ruin the skyline unless you're right next to it. Never said it ruined any skyline. But that doesn't mean it isn't a hideous waste of $20 million. Also, the railroad terminal is a beautiful old building, it's not ruining anything.
Posted on: 2011/9/13 19:13
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Newbie
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Have any of you people ever been to Liberty State Park lately? Because you can't see the memorial from about 95% of the park. If you're to the south and/or west of the Terminal building - which, again, describes about 95% of the park - the monument is blocked from sight by the Terminal building, which is MUCH larger. You can't see it from the salt marsh or from the promenade across from Ellis Island. If anything is "ruining the view" of the skyline in LSP - which was the point of this thread - it's the Terminal building, not the monument.
Posted on: 2011/9/13 16:46
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
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Quote:
That's why we can't just say "oh we lost guess we'll live with it." Because the next time the state wants to spend money this stupidly in a recession, I want everyone to remember this waste of money.
Posted on: 2011/9/13 15:54
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
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I wish. But if we can't get rid of that god-awful stabbed-in-the-back statue in Exchange Place, we'll never get rid of this.
Posted on: 2011/9/13 15:05
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Not too shy to talk
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Yes, we all lose is right. Saw the structure for the first time recently and was disgusted. Looks like the perfect place for some tagging to happen. Actually, tagging it up might make it look better. Two glass walls would have kept the view in tact, but the use of cement for this monument is absurd. It looks awful. Can't even begin to think about how that amount of money could have been used to better the post 911 world.
Posted on: 2011/9/13 14:42
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
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Yes, yes we all know it's built and the money was spent but wouldn't you like to know how the 20+Mil was spent? There are giant ocean front homes in the Hamptons designed by blue chip architectural firms with gyms, pools, media rooms and tennis courts for that kind of green.
Sure, the memorial overlooks Manhattan, the Hudson River and it's in a national park but seriously how can they justify 20+Mil for these two giant walls? They didn't even have enough money to clad the outer walls in steel! Instead we get, "architecturally finished concrete" that the architects claim will make it look more attractive than the typical flat, drab coating of most concrete finishes. Spin on you crazy fools.
Posted on: 2011/9/13 13:01
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
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Quote:
it's not out of the question: Serra Comes Tumbling Down oh, and mwa? we all lose.
Posted on: 2011/9/13 4:12
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
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Quote:
So what! You lose. The fight is over. What do you want to do now? Tear it down?
Posted on: 2011/9/13 3:47
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
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Let's look at 10 facts but first please try and remove yourself from all the emotional issues that surround this memorial:
1) The Empty Sky Memorial cost over 20M and took years to figure out and complete yet we still just get a half complete memorial because the original drawings called for steel clad outer walls to match the inner walls. Sadly, the mis-managed money dried up and now the millions of visitors who stroll through LSP each year see what appears to be two enormous, unfinished cement walls. Lovely! 2) Many of the architect's (Frederic Schwartz and Jessica Jamroz), renderings, especially the aerial view drawings the committee of 12 victims' family members saw and ultimately voted on, were misleading and did not show the true effect on the skyline by the hill. They also cleverly failed to show the adjacent historic 1889 CRRNJ Terminal. 3) This memorial was authorized by the executive orders of ex-Governors Donald DiFrancesco and James McGreevey yet zero public hearings were granted though memorials in NY and PA had public hearings. Last I checked we still lived in a democracy? 4) Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah Healy, along with the entire Hudson County legislative delegation, petitioned former Gov. Jon Corzine to halt the project. 5) Friends of Liberty State Park (FOLSP) received 1000's of signatures from citizens throughout the world to halt the memorial and discuss the effects of the memorial's design in that location. 6) The memorial's location wasn't properly zoned to be that close to an historic building (NJ- CRRNJ Terminal) yet they found away to sneak it through. 7) The architects achieved their goal of making the memorial's vistors look East towards the new Freedom Tower. However, it is at the tragic expense of the prized North and South site lines. 8) It's simply to big of a foot print for that area. By putting such a big memorial and making a hill there a once vibrant area used for concerts and other events is now gone. 9) There is already a memorial at Liberty State Park called, "Grove of Rememberance." 10) It's built and the money is spent but I think Sam Pesin, the president of Friends of Liberty State Park (FOLSP) put it best when he said, "There should have been public hearings for a public memorial in a public park that is in the shadow of the Statue of Liberty, the world's greatest symbol of democracy." We all have opinions on it's design but this goes much deeper - this is about the government and just how bumbled, greedy, and egotistical it can be. That includes the flashy architects at Frederic Schwartz.
Posted on: 2011/9/13 3:36
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
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Wow, what a bunch of complaining babies. Big deal, 100-150' of the 11 miles of waterfront in Jersey city is taken up with a memorial for innocent people and first responders who gave their lives as a result of the attacks of 9-11. If you don't like it then don't go to the memorial, there is plenty of waterfront for you to take in your precious unobstructed view. Give me a break!
Posted on: 2011/9/13 3:12
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
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just saw this thing and all the pictures you find on the internet are really flattering because they show it head-on. Once you see it from the side you really realize how ugly it is. It is pretty interesting to walk inside, but it's just overwhelmingly large. And the names are only on the bottom 1/5, so that makes it just seem weird and unfinished.
I think it would be a really nice memorial if it were about 1/3 the size, but since it's so overwhelmingly tall it just dominates the whole area and you can't not look at it. I imagine it will be unbearably hot in the summer as well. And how the hell did we spend $20 million on a pile of concrete and steel? I'll try to get some pictures tomorrow that show what it looks like from an angle other than directly at the entrance.
Posted on: 2011/9/13 1:46
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyli
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Home away from home
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Quote:
What's your point? I'm sure if you gave the families of the victims envelopes full of cash they'd be appreciative as well. Where does it end? There are at least a half-dozen major memorials within five miles of this thing - one of them is in the park. Shouldn't there be balance in how we utilize public space? Do we really need memorials every mile on the waterfront?
Posted on: 2011/9/12 12:03
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyli
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Home away from home
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I went to see the memorial in person today, and I have to say it's enormously ugly from almost every angle. If you look at it straight, right down the hallway, it's attractive and moving. From every other angle, it's a giant eyesore.
NYC and JC are in the same position: the state governors chose to build monstrously large memorials as if to answer the enormity of the attacks, but it will be up to the citizens of those cities to live with them. Both memorials come off as egotistically huge. The memorial doesn't ruin the park, and it's still easy to get a good view of Manhattan, but it was a terrible choice.
Posted on: 2011/9/12 2:54
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyli
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Not too shy to talk
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Did anyone see the dedication of the 9/11 Memorial on Saturday?
I am curious if 81905 saw what the families of the victims had to say about the new memorial and to see how moved and appreciative they were. I guess they're not being very logical. 81905 wrote: Mies, to say these two gargantuan walls are minimal is preposterous and then to say this memorial is not an intrusion defies any sort of logic. This isn't merely a case on ones design taste it's about the sheer madness of government and how mismanaged it really is. Christie, the architects, the 911 Memorial committee should all be held accountable for this eyesore.
Posted on: 2011/9/11 21:22
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyli
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Home away from home
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Mies, to say these two gargantuan walls are minimal is preposterous and then to say this memorial is not an intrusion defies any sort of logic.
This isn't merely a case on ones design taste it's about the sheer madness of government and how mismanaged it really is. Christie, the architects, the 911 Memorial committee should all be held accountable for this eyesore. mies wrote: I have lived in JC for over 25 years. I love Liberty State Park. Were very lucky to have such a beautiful park right here in our back yard. The views of NYC are amazing. I wasnt sure about the memorial when planning began. As time went on I could understand the concern about diminished views caused by the new structure. Now that the memorial is close to completion I have to say that I really like the way it has come together. I love all the grand open spaces in the park. They offer a great contrast to the dense urban sprawl within the city itself. In my opinion the memorial is not intrusion but an enhancement. The design design is very minimal, elegant and ingeniously designed to focus your attention on downtown NYC and reflect figuratively and literally on the past, present and future. I had the chance to get close to the monument the night after the recent storm. The sunset was spectacular that night and the dramatic and ghostly reflections in the monument were breathtaking. I think you get a taste of that in some of the pictures someone recently posted. See it for yourself up close and personal before you decide that it is a detriment to our city and our park. All art is subjective. Not everyone is going to like every building or monument. The WTC towers were never cherished as much as they are now as before they were gone. I hope they finish the monument soon so we can all enjoy it in its finished state.[/quote]
Posted on: 2011/9/1 13:41
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyli
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Not too shy to talk
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I have lived in JC for over 25 years. I love Liberty State Park. Were very lucky to have such a beautiful park right here in our back yard. The views of NYC are amazing. I wasnt sure about the memorial when planning began. As time went on I could understand the concern about diminished views caused by the new structure. Now that the memorial is close to completion I have to say that I really like the way it has come together. I love all the grand open spaces in the park. They offer a great contrast to the dense urban sprawl within the city itself. In my opinion the memorial is not intrusion but an enhancement. The design design is very minimal, elegant and ingeniously designed to focus your attention on downtown NYC and reflect figuratively and literally on the past, present and future. I had the chance to get close to the monument the night after the recent storm. The sunset was spectacular that night and the dramatic and ghostly reflections in the monument were breathtaking. I think you get a taste of that in some of the pictures someone recently posted. See it for yourself up close and personal before you decide that it is a detriment to our city and our park. All art is subjective. Not everyone is going to like every building or monument. The WTC towers were never cherished as much as they are now as before they were gone. I hope they finish the monument soon so we can all enjoy it in its finished state.
Posted on: 2011/9/1 13:15
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
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I didn't realize Cahill, the Chairman of the New Jersey 9/11 Memorial Foundation was a fool. What sane person what utter such contemptible dribble: 'We felt pretty strongly it wasn?t going to block the view any more than a tree would block the view."
I suppose we could blame the ego driven architects at Frederic Schwartz and thier initial memorial renderings that all these grieving and uneducated in public space design gushed over and ultimately voted on.
Posted on: 2011/9/1 12:33
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
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Quote:
more crack reporting from the nj.com: "Opponents of the memorial?s design, who worried it would overwhelm the waterfront, tried but failed to block the project in court. That opposition has since died down." 'We felt pretty strongly it wasn?t going to block the view any more than a tree would block the view,' Cahill said." ----------------- The chairman of this private New Jersey 9/11 Memorial Foundation has seen some whack-ass trees in his day.
Posted on: 2011/9/1 11:52
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
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Quote:
It's still an active construction site.
Posted on: 2011/9/1 11:37
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
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I find it fitting that our memorial to 9/11 includes a police barricade.
Posted on: 2011/9/1 10:07
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
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What can you say... I like Christie and who's going to knock a 911 memorial even if it is ugly, the article was stupid... the photos were tight up close or far away with an implied mention, that they overan the original budget and went to the state for more money to bring it to the condtion it is today... incomplete from concept and ugly besides.
This could be the ultimate memorial to taxpayer wasted dollars and out of control government spending.... Hey I have another great idea, lets build another tunnel and put the NJ taxpayers on the hook for the cost overruns in that shovel ready project... statue money would have been better spent on NJ First Responders.
Posted on: 2011/9/1 4:15
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
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The Christie family talks about their personal 9/11 experiences
Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 5:24PM Governor Chris Christie, wife Mary Pat and children Andrew, Sarah, Patrick and Bridget tour the 9/11 memorial in Liberty State Park and talk about their personal 9/11 experiences. http://video-embed.nj.com/services/pl ... 01001?bctid=1137731461001 http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011 ... hristie_and_family_1.html
Posted on: 2011/9/1 3:32
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
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Those are nice pictures. How about some pictures from the Goldman Sachs building area, or Manhattan?
Posted on: 2011/8/25 3:12
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
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One more step back and you get to stand in a beautiful parking lot. That is the best place to soak it all in.
Posted on: 2011/8/25 2:49
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Home away from home
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those are very pretty photos of a very unattractive monument. thank you for posting.
Posted on: 2011/8/25 2:38
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Photos taken on August 24, 2011
Posted on: 2011/8/25 2:14
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