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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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Just can't stay away
 
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Beach guy ? I?m assuming u r not a new immigrant or victim to unscrupulous broker, and u r obviously educated.
however, despite all this, you represent another category of citizens who do not necessarily deserve to be unduly criticized for their financial problems. You represent the citizen Brewster mentioned, the one who we could look at and say, ?there but for the grace of god?? The distinction is that in the wake of a financial meltdown, you didn?t hide your head in the sand, you actively tried to pull yourself out of a bad situation (without simply walking away or shirking financial obligations.) You were an adult, and made the hard choices. You immediately prioritized and made all necessary modifications to your lifestyle. You did not act entitled, seek to blame, or ceaselessly attempt to justify how u landed in the predicament. Nor did u publicize your predicament in a melodramatic fashion for self-promotion. Contrast this to Creery and Spencer Malmud, the husband. (Tho come to think of it, we have never heard from Malmud directly?what we know of him is really thru the filter of his wife?s portrayal.)
Posted on: 2011/8/6 22:38
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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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Home away from home
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I won't fault this couple about buying at the height of the market thinking properties were going to continue to double in value every ten years. I did the same thing only to find myself underwater when the market and the economy tanked in '08. At first I panicked and got overwhelmed like many others. I spent many sleepless night with worry because my income is dependent on a strong economy (like just about everyone else except the very rich and those who are able to capitalize on the misery of others in order to make money.)
However, my panic did not stop me from moving forward to sell assets in order to pay down my mortgage to the break-even point and work even when there was no work. I went to basic cable, lived without health insurance for quite a while (stupid, but necessary at the time) and I eliminated all extras including my home phone and using the A/C in the summer. One of the luxuries that I loved was my morning coffee from my favorite shop but that got replaced by some good but cheap coffee at home with a $12 French press. And there are lots of other things that got eliminated or replaced with a less expensive alternative. I was very stupid because I invested in an assumption. I never looked for sympathy even when i was literally on the precipice of financial disaster. Given the latest economic news, I may be in hot water again. But I just don't feel sympathy for these people because, like many others that are contributing to this economic disaster, these folks are willing to just walk away, altering their lifestyle minimally. In one of her blogs, she says "I can't wait to rent again." Hey, I'd like to rent again too. But that ain't happening.
Posted on: 2011/8/6 21:14
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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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Point taken. How about just mandatory screenings of this: video clip
Posted on: 2011/8/6 19:41
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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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the thing is, josiered, all the subject matter you listed(the marriage, the kids, her needs, etc) in the hands of a skilled writer, could be compelling and credible.
but that's exactly the problem with the blog for me; in my opinion, creery simply does not have a "credible" writers voice -- her postings sound like that of a 13 year old teen girl. even if she were to address what u want -- the nitty gritty of what it is like to go through the process, the practical insights and advice that people could use, etc. ...as a writer, she simply does not have the voice of credibility for me to take seriously when delivering such information.
Posted on: 2011/8/6 2:28
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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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Take the time to read the blogs on foreclosure in the JC Independent and NJ.com. I have only one question - out of all the blogs, posts, news articles etc. was there any substance of information on foreclosure? To date, all we know is that they are in foreclosure. NOTHING MORE-
The other 10,000 sentences are about Gabby, her feelings, her growing up, her "biggers", her lousy husband, her needs and wants not being met, her desires, her cares for her children, her not having a/c, her kids having iphones, ballet and fencing lessons, her college years, her vacations or staycations, her car, her renovations, her new one woman show, her photography, her pilates, her aerobics, her teaching swimming, her attitude on all subjects, her writing, her being part of the community, her wanting better things, her wanting to rent, her spending $ out of control when times were good, her wanting out of debt and her shame for being in foreclosure, her husbands job, the IRS and all her tales of woe. So where exactly is the INFORMATION on foreclosure? Where are the details of what they are doing about it? Where are the details of how they are going to proceed? Have they approached the bank now that they are both working for quite some time? What were they told to do? How can they overcome this? What groups/organizations can they advise people to use in the same situation? What tips or advice can they SHARE with people? What solid help can they give to other people because they've been there? What do the lawyers say? If your blog is about foreclosure then make it about FORECLOSURE. Stop making the blogs about "I love me" and write some relevant insight to help others that actually "care" they are in foreclosure - write about the devastation and the concerns. No one cares whether your kids can go to camp this year or attend ballet. They want help not your life history! 
Posted on: 2011/8/6 2:04
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Like the borrow and spend republicans would ever allow THAT to happen.
Posted on: 2011/8/6 1:49
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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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actually, i disagree. her writing is as undisciplined as her spending habits.
simply "vomiting" up emotions on the page does not good writing make. illiciting nausea in readers (see josiered's comments) seems to be a common occurance. were a writer actually aiming to illicit such response, that's one thing, but don't think creery's intention was to get readers to roll their eyes and gag at her lack of self awareness. sometimes, her posts seem almost a parody of a made-up character.
Posted on: 2011/8/6 1:48
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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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*Tangent*
People talk about math education in this country. It could stand to be improved, but man, there's low-hanging-fruit out there: Mandate personal finance and economics 101 classes in all high schools. I've lived life long enough to know there are some people that just can't be helped... but there's a big chunk of people that just need some fundamental education about supply and demand, how mortgages work, and what the stock market is. And I know it can all be found on the internet, but it really needs to be force-fed down people's throats. There are many grown people out there with college degrees that do not know what an IRA is, how mortgages work, and have no idea about investment vehicles like 529 plans for college. It would help everyone if this information was more widespread.
Posted on: 2011/8/6 1:38
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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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You know, I don't think the woman and her husband are asking for any sympathy whatsoever, and I doubt anyone (including myself) has it anyway. I just think that this woman is a good writer (surely somebody can recognize this) and is just trying to bring the situation to light and let people know how real this problem is, and it isn't just what we read about in the papers or see on TV, it is in our own neighborhoods and all around us. I am not sticking up for these people, I don't know them but she's done an excellent job of illustrating what it means to lose one's primary source of income and be foreclosed on.
Would it make very interesting reading if these people were responsible, worked something out with the bank, etc., or lost everything as a result of this and were out on the street?
Posted on: 2011/8/6 1:31
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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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I don't totally disagree with you on the bank practices, BUT fact of the matter is these two blew $ left and right and now want someone to feel sorry for them. I know of two other couples in foreclosure that have gone to the bank, lawyers etc. to get help. They are not posting their sorrows on JC list or NJ. com - they are doing their best to "actually DEAL with it and get help". Gabby wants a Pity Party to add to her Portfolio along with her photography studio and Esther Williams Swim Classes. Her kids aren't suffering, they attend fencing, swimming and ballet - BUT she's in foreclosure? My friends in foreclosure cannot afford those luxuries yet make every effort to reconcile with the bank and work it out. Gabby sits home eating ice cream sandwiches bitching about how bad life is because her a/c isn't working. My friends in foreclosure can't afford to pay for a/c so they don't use it. Oh please Gabby get a life Princess, get off the horse and come down to reality. Stop the nonsense and the ongoing saga of your "poor life" and what you miss. YOU BLEW IT - YES YOU ! Stop blaming your husband for your non caring blind attitude. He didn't do this to you, you did it to yourself. I haven't an ounce of sympathy for you because you still live high on the hog !
Posted on: 2011/8/6 1:22
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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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njlist,
I certainly appreciate your position and the civilized tone of your posts. It's rare in these online forums where two posters can disagree on an issue with out collateral and personal attacks. More importantly I appreciate with particularity the basis for your stance. I just tend to feel bad for people of lesser capability. This woman probably isn't very emotionally mature nor is her husband. But they've managed to come some distance in life in terms of generally holding down jobs, they probably both have college degrees, raising children and working towards cultivating a sense of aspiration in those children. However, in the broad scheme of financial failures, this couples' situation really isn't all that bad. They could probably sell this house for an amount near the mortgage obligation and readily move onto a a decent rental. But my real point is their ordeal isn't even a speed bump in our financial crises. They in many ways are in fact victims to what the banks exactly wanted them to do. The banks wanted them to leverage their house for home improvements and a better life. They were the weak sheep the banks counted on. What the banks didn't count on was their inability to keep the velocity game going long enough to prevent the collapse. Or maybe they didn't care about the collapse because they knew they are so inextricably integrated to the stability of the American economy that they would have to be bailed out. Whatever the theory is on that, this couple isn't a mole hill compared to banks. Any frustration directed towards these couples should be directed towards the banks. Even if these people are the most vagrant and irresponsible consumers. They're nothing compared to the banks who so totally screwed us and continue to screw us. Instead of raking these people over the coals, I think people should be more fired up and creating a revolution. Look, I bought my JC house in 2002, collect rent and am deep in equity. For the most part I live within my means. But like a lot of people the money isn't flowing in like it used to and remain concerned about the stability of my job. Still banks are making a great deal of money. But how much innovation are they cultivating???? In terms of this couple, your comments have been measured and well thought out. But if there's going to be a bandwagon flaming, let it be against the banks.
Posted on: 2011/8/6 0:23
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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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sutherland -
you do have valid points- some banks do have predatory lending practices nor am i condoning or wholeheartedly supporting the government's response to the housing crisis. my point is that i don't see the couple in the article as victims of anything but their own greed and poor choices, nor are they "representative" of the many people now in foreclosure that were victims of predatory lending practices. you stated that snowflake and fraulien were inappropriate in being critical of the jc couple. i simply happen to disagree
Posted on: 2011/8/6 0:03
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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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njlist:
I'm not interested in reading every blog or post on these people. I can barely keep up with this thread, nor review my posts to check for typos and misspellings. Though I did read one blog posted on here. While I'm not thrilled with this woman's lambasting her husband in public and airing out her personal issues, my biggest issue is the banks have ultimately cultivated this craving for spending and entitlement and walked away from it all without a scratch and continue to reap benefits. I'm soooo over people saying the government lent the banks money and got paid back. It's not true nor correct. We bought mortgage backed securities at higher than market value to help the banks out. That's where we really let the banks off the hook. In the meantime banks made money encouraging people to act irresponsibly and are now leading the band in finger wagging at the "irresponsible" consumers. Read this: Investors said in the suit that Wachovia repeatedly claimed that its mortgage loans were made with "high underwriting standards and a conservative approach to lending." But they claimed that after the bank bought Golden West Financial Corp. in 2006, it started using that bank's riskiest practices. That included companywide adoption of Golden West's "Pick-A-Pay" mortgages, which gave borrowers options on the size of their payments, including an option for minimum payments that did not cover monthly interest, but instead added to the principal on a loan. These loans were also routinely made without verifying borrower income or ability to pay, further increasing risk, and were among the most likely to default, the suit maintains. Quote:
Posted on: 2011/8/5 23:52
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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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Dear Gabby - or should I say Dear Abby?
Being somewhat educated I find the blogs, posts, news articles and the hoopla to be rather nauseating. The nj.com article was the icing on the cake. I tried to decipher segments to give credence to what you write about. Your proclamations that you "left it all to him to manage" even when you knew what was going on - or "it took a lot to shake this princess out of a coma to make her grow up" or "debt weighs on you, shames you and embarrasses you" seem quite contrary to your every day living. Your FB posts can confirm this. Is it really that awful living in foreclosure? You want something different because you are done with credit cards, loans and debt? I take that to mean you want to walk away rather than face the music? You are planning vacations and your children are still attending all the activities you cannot afford. You've made no attempts to get things back on track and we should feel sorry for you. So what really is the down side here? You've publicized your entire life and marital difficulties to everyone but your husband. Some issues so personal are boasted about in your blogs. I find that embarrassing and shameful. You speak of your husband as a third party and a somewhat useless one at that. Should we surmise that this is your way of getting out of a bad situation that you too created and now you're done with him? If you want a divorce go to a lawyer and keep it confidential. I, personally, am not interested in your every day activities, your children, your self absorbed world, your writer's club or whether or not you have air conditioning - if you want to put on a big show go to "Broadway". My stomach can't take much more of your ridiculous accounts of foreclosure. None of your articles "deal" with foreclosure. They deal with the saga of Poor Gabby - my heart is not bleeding for you - 
Posted on: 2011/8/5 23:27
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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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t bird- yes, it's one thing to feel sorry for the uneducated or immigrant who was prey for an unscrupulous broker, but the creerys are neither.
I think what leaves a bad taste for me and many of my contemporaries is that they seem to want it both ways: holding themselves out as hip, aware, communally minded individuals, while at the same time being so willfully irresponsible in their choices. Holding themselves out as responsible parents who want the best for their kids, yet making choices that put them in jeopardy. And these were choices made systematically and repeatedly, not something that was foisted on them, and in one fell swoop. It bespeaks of a certain hubris that now in the midst of this, they consistently, aggressively seek publicity for their foibles, and expect others to uniformly accept, actively sympathize, and on some level, validate, their choices. They are not the uneducated or immigrant or even struggling middle america, yet presume to speak for and represent those who are?
Posted on: 2011/8/5 23:06
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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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Home away from home
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Yes and no. You could make the same argument for bailing out borrowers - once they are back up on their feet and asset values recover (the exact same reasoning for giving money to the banks) most of them could pay you back too. As for loans vs. bailouts, mixed bag: The government has extended $125 billion in whatever you want to call it to AIG and has, to date, received back $27 billion. There remains another $65 billion in outstanding TARP "investments. Total government outlay under TARP (and additional direct "aid" to AIG) unrecouped = $163 billion. The outright bailout of U.S. Central and WesCorp credit unions totaled $57 billion. Fannie and Freddie bailouts were $110 billion The government spent $925 billion in buying up mortgages and, more so, mortgage-backed securities which a) was a hand out to the banks and funds who were holding this crap (not a loan, mind you, they were bought out of their positions - for which there was no market) and, b) artificially suppressed interest (read: mortgage) rates to "stimulate the consumer" and keep the mortgage wheels turning. That $925 billion alone is 50% more than what would have been required to completely pay off all of the bad mortgages in 2008. The government also spent $295 billion in buying up treasury securities, also in an attempt to keep interest rates low (since they'd run out of room to cut rates.) That is a total of $1.65 trillion (or more than half of the original $3 trillion) that either hasn't been repaid or never will. To be clear, I wasn't advocating for the government to repay all the bad mortgages - just pointing out that there was another, far cheaper way of going about it. However, in the spirit of apples to apples - had they done it they could have structured it in a way in which the government would have held an equity interest in the homes it "purchased". They also could have just provided guarantees and/or subsidized interest rates at a level that would have made these loans work out. Really, for probably $200 billion, probably less, the government could have solved this from the borrower side. In now way am I suggesting that people shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. But for every story such as the Creery's there seems to be at least one of the immigrant or undereducated who was preyed upon by an unscrupulous mortgage broker.
Posted on: 2011/8/5 22:33
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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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adonis-- you're right, they're certainly not living on the streets. to the contrary.
responding to one of her blog comments, creery acknowledged that the typical foreclosure process in nj lasts typically at least 908 days, and that they are trying to hold onto their home "as long as possible." by this couple's calculations, they can expect nearly 3 years with a roof over their heads -- we're not talking hovel, but a downtown brownstone--- during which they are freed of having to pay their mortage,or a rent. can you imagine the money that you or I could save in 3 years if we did not have mortage payments on our homes each month? so, whether there is an "official" government bailout or not, those of us paying our debts responsibly will end up getting shafted in the long run with trickle-down costs. after all, you don't think the banks wont subsidize their losses by raising fees and rates for the rest of us? in sum, the beds they made end up affecting not just themselves
Posted on: 2011/8/5 22:13
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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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You are comparing apples and oranges. The government essentially loaned money to the banks and the government was paid back with interest. That is not a "bailout". A "bailout" is giving money away with no expectation of it being returned. If the government simply "gave" money to people who made stupid financial choices (choices motivated primarily by their own greed mind you), now that would have been a "bailout". And a complete waste of money to boot. And as for the couple that is the subject of this article, well, they made their own bed. Now they should lie in it. It's not as if they are out starving in the street or something.
Posted on: 2011/8/5 21:08
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Home away from home
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Brewster - YOU should be writing a column in JCI. A much more interesting read than the bare-it-all, no-shame narcissism that has become the norm.
Posted on: 2011/8/5 18:34
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No argument here. That's a train wreck I've been watching for over a decade. These are people of way over average smarts, who can't manage to function. Neither of them has a real job currently and my mother is terrified they'll try and suck her dry. Even now, broke, she has lectured me on why Ipods are so much better than the Sansa's I buy my family reconditioned and dirt cheap. There's simply no getting through. It's bizarre, both my siblings married people who turned out to be mildly mentally ill, but my SIL (a bitch and a half) is crazy in the way that makes you rich, and my BIL is crazy in the way that makes you poor. But for slight differences, they could easily change places. I think all of us have our problems, but not all of us express it in a way that lands you in debt. Think of all the functional alcoholics who can afford their Bud, vs the junkies that ultimately can't. How many of the 7 deadly sins does it take to REALLY screw the pooch?
Posted on: 2011/8/5 17:46
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Home away from home
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Yes - my comments were based on the JCI blog, not the news article.
Posted on: 2011/8/5 17:42
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These aren't bad decisions. These are INSANE decisions.
Posted on: 2011/8/5 17:13
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sutherland-
it's one thing to have as Brewster implies, an addiction, compulsion, what have you, toward spending. yes, just like with an alcoholic or drug addict, you can have some level of compassion. but have u read the jc independent blogs? I think readers are negatively responding to a tone that borders on maudlin, whining helplessness coupled with barely-concealed entitlement. one gets the sense the blogger is "using" foreclosure as a platform to further her public image and career, because the posts couldn't be more self-absorbed. by being given a consistent forum in the press, the paper seems to somehow be glorifying her unwise decisions. And one can be a "nice" person, Brewster, and still lack a high degree of self-awareness and maturity. we are not talking kids, teens, or even young couples in their twenties, thirties. This is a couple nearing, or having reached middle aged, with 4 kids, and still refusing to take the bull by the horns and prioritize! And Gabby's "excuse" that poor helpless her, she never looks at the bills (even now, years into their financial crisis) is lame and pathetic. And then to blame her husband for the electricity being turned off, as she did in her blog, takes the cake. ultimately, we, the taxpayers, the people paying off their mortages, who decide to forego the iphones, the big screen tvs, the trips to europe, we end up taking up the slack for people like the creerys. as some of the posters stated on nj.com, the creerys are not the face of a typical middle class family struggling in foreclosure. fencing lessons? iphones? trips to the south of france? and all this in the middle of foreclosure, living rent free in a brownstone in downtown jc? heck, my family could afford all that too if we we'ren't working hard to cover our mortage payments each month. is having a negative reaction to this, as sutherland insists, "misguided" or "inappropriate" on the part of readers? don't think so.
Posted on: 2011/8/5 16:51
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Not too shy to talk
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You can either "keep up with the Jones's" or say, "f*** the Jones's". But keep in mind that the Jones's aren't really happy anyway with all of their stuff.
Posted on: 2011/8/5 15:31
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Very thoughtful and well stated comment, Brewster.
I was frustrated by posters' comments about this couple's flat screen TV and exercise machine. What other kind of TV can someone buy today once their other TV dies? Also, chances are that exercise machine over the cost of 2 years probably cost less than most people's gym memberships, especially when you multiply the gym membership x 2. There are a host of reasons why people get caught up in the spending frenzy. There's a strong current in our culture today that often makes people feel a little bad about themselves if they don't have something ultimately clouding peoples' judgment. True these people burnt through a lot of money and in large part caused their own demise. Still to be so harshly critical is inappropriate and misguided.
Posted on: 2011/8/5 12:37
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I guess it's okay if you have no sympathy, but you've got to at least feel the same queasy feeling my wife and I do of "how many bad decisions away from them are we? Really?" Does it mean they're spoiled and sheltered? Stupid? I don't think so. These are truly nice and bright people trying to give their children the best childhood they know how, who couldn't manage the financial portion of their lives. From what I've seen before, it's almost like a learning disability. It's the way they think.
We know other "disaster couples". We sometimes sit and talk about them without feeling smug (at least I don't think so). They're cautionary tales of the downward mobility generation. People not with champagne tastes, lets say Heineken, but PBR means. My sister and her husband drove themselves into bankruptcy well before the economy tanked by some similar decisions. We grew up in a secure but not opulent suburban home and went to public school, she's a veterinarian & PhD. But they are simply unable to decide they can't afford something they "need". Even already in debt, they HAD to keep buying new cars because older cars aren't safe enough. He HAD to buy a generator when Y2K was coming, for safety. He HAD to have the latest Mac gear for working at home, even though equipment was provided at work. People like this get trained to expect things to keep working out, because they always had. They're currently chewing through my BIL's inheritance just the way Gabby disposed of the refi cash. Because they can't help themselves. At least they never lost the house and it has a rental. But his half assed, half completed renovations have made it unsalable anyway. We're into real estate as our chosen path to financial security, and easily could have gotten caught up in the frenzy were we a little less cynical. JC is lousy with people who owned a home cheaply from before the boom, and thought that leveraging it to buy up all the property they could was a brilliant plan. I spoke with one of these moguls recently who owned 5 deeply underwater properties, including his home, and still didn't realize that short sales weren't going to save him and he was going to go bankrupt. He's a college math professor. "Do the math!" But that book just isn't on his shelf, or Gabby's apparently. Sad for all, self inflicted though it is.
Posted on: 2011/8/5 4:12
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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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Home away from home
Joined:
2007/4/16 13:46 Last Login : 2023/11/15 11:50 From Village/HP
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Totally agree... I have no sympathy for her situation. She turned a blind eye to their financial problems and now proceeds to publicly expose her problems and relationship. Ick is right.
Posted on: 2011/8/5 0:20
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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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Home away from home
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Yikes. I read that blog on JC Independant and it made me feel icky. Way to publicly throw your husband under the bus. Ouch.
Posted on: 2011/8/5 0:13
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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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Just can't stay away
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commenters on nj.com seem unanimously appalled at their foolhardiness:
http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/index ... y_family_feels_the_p.html
Posted on: 2011/8/4 19:12
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Re: Downtown: Having taken out huge second loan at height, couple now owes more than it's worth.
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Home away from home
Joined:
2008/10/19 1:18 Last Login : 2020/9/25 20:40 From somewhere else
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Quote:
Not at all what I was saying (if you are including me in recent posters.) Just pointing out that if the government had decided to bailout the borrowers instead of the banks, the bill would have been less than 20% of what it ended up being. That doesn't include whatever the follow-on damage that might/would have occurred from the damage to the banking system. My point really only is that the people who are (at best) 20% of the problem seem to suffer 100% of the pain.
Posted on: 2011/8/4 2:19
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