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Re: Man Cuffed For Bringing Unopened Wine On PATH Train
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Home away from home
 
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One of the best replies I've seen in ages. The SS part was the best. I wonder if they drive a big car.
Posted on: 2010/3/26 15:02
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Re: Man Cuffed For Bringing Unopened Wine On PATH Train
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Home away from home
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Some PATH cops, just like Jersey City cops are often resentful that they weren't old enough to join the SS in its heyday.
Too stupid to get into college and they are handed a gun and several daily vials of steroids...and they become BIG MEN, aka, THUGS. Fire a few of these obnoxious pricks, and cancel their pensions, and the rest will become a little more respectful of the public they are well paid to serve.
Posted on: 2010/3/26 14:23
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Re: Man Cuffed For Bringing Unopened Wine On PATH Train
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Home away from home
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what kills me about this holiday rule is that, with most PATH journeys lasting under 15 minutes, how incapacitated can you *really* get if you're drinking onboard?
the endless number of drunks I encounter on the PATH are in that condition long before they get near the train, and they are a lot more disruptive than the guy carrying wine in a grocery bag.
Posted on: 2010/3/25 21:23
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Re: Man Cuffed For Bringing Unopened Wine On PATH Train
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Home away from home
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This is actually untrue, so you might want to check the law before calling people idiots... The 21st amendment says this (I left out section 3 since it's about ratifying the amendment): Quote: Section 1. The eighteenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed. If you transport liquor into a state in violation of that state's laws, that is illegal. It's not a blanket prohibition on transportation of liquor between the state. If you look up the NJ rules, you'll see that it's OK to bring alcohol into the state so long as you follow the rules. ....And for those interested, here are the rules (for NJ): Quote: A person may personally purchase alcoholic beverages in another state and transport them into New Jersey only if (1) the alcoholic beverages are intended to be used solely for personal use and (2) the alcohol is personally transported in a vehicle into New Jersey. The amount of alcoholic beverages transported into New Jersey for personal use cannot exceed l/4 barrel or one case containing not in excess of 12 quarts of beer and one gallon of wine and two quarts of other alcoholic beverages within any consecutive period of 24 hours. If a person wishes to transport alcohol for personal use in excess of the above amounts...blah blah blah... The complete NJ FAQ can be found here: http://www.state.nj.us/oag/abc/faqs.html#8 Now, bringing it into NY from NJ, CT or where ever...I don't know (if someone cares, I'm sure it's listed somewhere here.. The point is, states make their own alcohol laws...
Posted on: 2010/3/25 21:17
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Re: Man Cuffed For Bringing Unopened Wine On PATH Train
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Home away from home
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Route 78 connects to Pennsylvania. Is it assumed that if I get into a car and enter route 78 that I'm going to go to Pennsylvania. Fortunately the government does not have the same free reign as credit agencies and temptation is not probable cause.
Posted on: 2010/3/25 19:59
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Re: Man Cuffed For Bringing Unopened Wine On PATH Train
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Home away from home
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Like credit, even though you have an unused credit card your rating is based on opportunity because the temptation is there for the asking. So it would have to be assumed that he could cross state lines. Maybe perhaps they should let everyone off of the train at the border point and get frisked.
Posted on: 2010/3/25 16:51
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Re: Man Cuffed For Bringing Unopened Wine On PATH Train
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Home away from home
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Great question! I should've worded it better. Instead of saying "violence" I should've said a "victim of a property rights violation" since violence is a violation of the property rights to your body. And obviously that would include stealing. I'd say if you intentionally lied to someone and were aware it could cause damages to them, that you should be liable for those damages.
Posted on: 2010/3/25 16:42
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Re: Man Cuffed For Bringing Unopened Wine On PATH Train
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Home away from home
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DirkMcGirt you said "Any law that makes something illegal when there is no victim of violence IS arbitrary, immoral and unjust." does that mean you don't think it should be illegal to steal? or lie (under oath)?
just wonderin!
Posted on: 2010/3/25 16:10
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Re: Man Cuffed For Bringing Unopened Wine On PATH Train
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Home away from home
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The ?just following orders? defense doesn?t apply. First, cops have discretion. That are not required to, nor do they, crack down on every illegal activity they see. Do troopers go after the very first speeder they see? No. They use discretion. Second, ?just following orders? didn?t work during the Nuremberg trials, and it doesn?t work now. Clearly, I?m not comparing cops to Nazis, but taking the ?just following orders? philosophy to its logical conclusion means if your authority tells you to enact genocide, you should do it. Cops should use discretion for bad laws, and this is one of the many instances.
Posted on: 2010/3/25 16:04
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Just can't stay away
 
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damn, this makes me miss the days of drinking on the LIRR.
Posted on: 2010/3/25 15:31
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Not too shy to talk
 
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Not that I disagree, but when and how do you believe that they proved this?
Posted on: 2010/3/25 15:19
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Home away from home
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Only because they proved we are not safe from them long ago.
Posted on: 2010/3/25 15:16
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Re: Man Cuffed For Bringing Unopened Wine On PATH Train
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Not too shy to talk
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I agree with you that laws should not be arbitrarily enforced or made up on the spot as we go along; constants are a necessity. But we also need to use common sense about what battles we should be fighting. These cops did not make up this law for one person because they didnt like him or for any other arbitrary reason- they were enforcing a mandate from their superiors that was made public at least a week in advance of this temporary prohibition on bringing alcohol on the train. Did the cops probably give the guy an attitude and perhaps bully him a little? Most likely, after all people who become cops often do so because they want to have power over others. Did this guy act like his civil rights were being violated when all the cops were saying was that they can't make any exceptions to this rule (which the police probably thought was a stupid rule anyway)? Yes he did. This incident gives us no rational reason to make us believe that we are no longer safe from the people who are charged with our protection. In this case the slippery slope argument is no argument at all. The guy with the wine is just being indignant because his pride was hurt.
Posted on: 2010/3/25 15:15
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Any law that makes something illegal when there is no victim of violence IS arbitrary, immoral and unjust.
Posted on: 2010/3/25 15:12
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There is no proof he was going to travel across state lines. He could have been traveling to a different station within New York.
Posted on: 2010/3/25 2:23
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Quite a regular
 
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Definitely agree with Brewster on this. When laws become arbitrary how can a citizen know when they are safe? What would make the police any different than a gang or the mob? Just watched the movie training day. it really brings out the concept of why a peace officer can think they are doing good and how their views can become distorted in the name of "justice" when really they are hurting those they are charged to protect.
Posted on: 2010/3/25 2:16
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Re: Man Cuffed For Bringing Unopened Wine On PATH Train
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The issue is less about the details than why should we tolerate arbitrary authority? The police aren't and shouldn't be free to make up the rules as they go along. Everyone is at risk in that case, and that's how corrupt authorities from Mexico to China line their pockets and intimidate the population. If you have no idea when you might next be confronted by an armed man for an infraction of a rule that didn't exist a moment before, you live in fear.
What next, you can't take your tennis racket or pool cue on the train because some cop decides you might conceivable assault someone with it? It's not like PA cops are dedicated to the absolute rule of law either, they sit passively along 14th street watching gridlock and illegal turns.
Posted on: 2010/3/25 1:57
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Re: Man Cuffed For Bringing Unopened Wine On PATH Train
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Not too shy to talk
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I had the same problem with a bottle of vodka on new year's. cops told me I couldnt bring it on the train because it was new year's (they didnt want people drinking on the train was the reason I think he gave me). so I left the bottle there because I understand their reasoning and did not want to start the new year getting arrested. I didnt call 911 or give the cops a hard time because I understand they probably had to deal with asses like this guy all night long.
This guy could have saved himself a bunch of problems and money if he just put his ego away and left the wine at his friends' house. I have no sympathy for this jackass.
Posted on: 2010/3/25 1:33
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Re: Man Cuffed For Bringing Unopened Wine On PATH Train
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I don't think the 21st amendment is applicable here, tqwert - I think the Supreme Court ruling in Granholm v. Heald seems to have established precedence. In that instance, it was obviously more about inter-state commerce (calling into question the Dormant Commerce Clause and its role within the context of the 21st ammendment), but as this was on a more personal and obvious innocuous level, clearly it's even less a violation.
This is more about the Port Authority and their policy - they do allow transportation of sealed alcohol, typically.
Posted on: 2010/3/25 0:09
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Re: Man Cuffed For Bringing Unopened Wine On PATH Train
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Just can't stay away
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Carrying alcohol across state lines is illegal, open or not. This idiot is going to sue to overturn the the 21st amendment to the constitution?
Posted on: 2010/3/24 23:46
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Re: Man Cuffed For Bringing Unopened Wine On PATH Train
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Home away from home
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That sucks, but I would have just walked over to the E stop @ 33rd and taken it down to WTC and tried my luck there. For the most part, it's futile to confront or negotiate with police when they believe you're at fault.
Posted on: 2010/3/24 22:53
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Re: Man Cuffed For Bringing Unopened Wine On PATH Train
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I believe both assults will get thrown out of court. If not it will cause a chain reaction from both sides of the fence. "Cheers !"
Posted on: 2010/3/24 21:49
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Man Cuffed For Bringing Unopened Wine On PATH Train
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Home away from home
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http://gothamist.com/2010/03/24/man_w ... rk_path_ticket_for_un.php
Oenophiles and folks bringing wine to a dinner party, you're on notice: Carrying unopened bottles on the PATH train could get you handcuffed and detained by the Port Authority Police! Pavan Trivedi tells MyFoxNY that he was stopped for trying to carrying two unopened bottles of wine home on New Year's Day and that one of the officers was "aggressive from the get-go. It was as though I was being attacked from all corners." Trivedi was at the PATH station at Greeley Square when a Port Authority cop told him he wasn't allowed to bring the bottles (visible in a clear bag) onto the train. Trivedi responded that he checked the website and PATH rules says unopened food and beverages are okay to bring aboard. Another PA cop got involved and told him, "Sir, there's no way in hell you're going to be riding the train home tonight." Then Trivedi walked back to street level and called 911? the operator told him to get the cops' information. Back downstairs, the cops were waiting for him. Not only did one refuse to speak to the 911 operator, the other allegedly slammed Trivedi to the ground and handcuffed him. Then he was taken to a room and "berated" for an hour. Here's the kicker: My Fox NY also reports, "A spokesperson for the Port Authority claims that a few days prior to New Years Eve station announcements warned riders that sealed bottles of alcohol were forbidden on the holiday but the same spokesperson admits he could not show Fox 5 any law or rule to support it." And Trivedi, who says he wasn't being aggressive, was issued a ticket for trespassing?not possession of sealed bottles of wine. He's planning on suing, "This kind of situation can't transpire again ..... Not just for me but for other innocent citizens who are just attempting to go home.?
Posted on: 2010/3/24 21:04
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