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Re: Jersey City Board of Ed fails to pass teachers contract
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Just can't stay away
 
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quote from NYT article above:
A building on 118th Street is one reason that the parents who are Perkins?s constituents know that charters can work. On one side there?s the Harlem Success Academy, a kindergarten-through-fourth-grade charter with 508 students. On the other side, there?s a regular public school, P.S. 149, with 438 pre-K to 8th-grade students. They are separated only by a fire door in the middle; they share a gym and cafeteria. School reformers would argue that the difference between the two demonstrates what happens when you remove three ingredients from public education ? the union, big-system bureaucracy and low expectations for disadvantaged children. On the charter side, the children are quiet, dressed in uniforms, hard at work ? and typically performing at or above grade level. Their progress in a variety of areas is tracked every six weeks, and teachers are held accountable for it. They are paid about 5 to 10 percent more than union teachers with their levels of experience. The teachers work longer than those represented by the union: school starts at 7:45 a.m., ends at 4:30 to 5:30 and begins in August. The teachers have three periods for lesson preparation, and they must be available by cellphone (supplied by the school) for parent consultations, as must the principal. They are reimbursed for taking a car service home if they stay late into the evening to work with students. There are special instruction sessions on Saturday mornings. The assumption that every child will succeed is so ingrained that (in a flourish borrowed from the Knowledge Is Power Program, or KIPP, a national charter network) each classroom is labeled with the college name of its teacher and the year these children are expected to graduate (as in ?Yale 2026? for one kindergarten class I recently visited). The charter side of the building spends $18,378 per student per year. This includes actual cash outlays for everything from salaries to the car service, plus what the city says (and the charter disputes) are the value of services that the city contributes to the charter for utilities, building maintenance and even ?debt service? for its share of the building. On the other side of the fire door, I encounter about a hundred children at 9:00 a.m. watching a video in an auditorium, having begun their school day at about 8:30. Others wander the halls. Instead of the matching pension contributions paid to the charter teachers that cost the school $193 per student on the public-school side, the union contract provides a pension plan that is now costing the city $2,605 per year per pupil. All fringe benefits, including pensions and health insurance, cost $1,341 per student on the charter side, but $5,316 on this side. For the public-school teachers to attend a group meeting after hours with the principal (as happens at least once a week on the charter side) would cost $41.98 extra per hour for each attendee, and attendance would still be voluntary. Teachers are not obligated to receive phone calls from students or parents at home. Although the city?s records on spending per student generally and in any particular school are difficult to pin down because of all of the accounting intricacies, the best estimate is that it costs at least $19,358 per year to educate each student on the public side of the building, or $980 more than on the charter side.
Posted on: 2010/5/24 18:17
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Re: Jersey City Board of Ed fails to pass teachers contract
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Good article in NYT about Race to the Top program:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/magazine/23Race-t.html I think Obama is ready to back up this Governor and any Mayors who will stand up to the NJEA . . . The participants of Teach for America have got new ideas, experience, and are ready for new challenges, like superintendent. There is somebody waiting to come in and do a better job than Epps for half the pay. Let's find him/her and give them a chance.
Posted on: 2010/5/24 17:55
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Re: Jersey City Board of Ed fails to pass teachers contract
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Newbie
 
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My favorite part of this whole line of reasoning is the "teachers have it better then the middle class private sector. Their lives should suck like mine do"
how about saying "why don't I have it good like teachers do"? This is they best country in the world. We should all have the ability to take care of our family health, spend some time with our family, etc. Millionaires all have these things. They became that way because they chose greed. Teachers got what the did because they chose a career that could help children. Instead of saying "their life should suck like mine." you should be saying my life should be good like theirs".
Posted on: 2010/5/23 12:18
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Re: Jersey City Board of Ed fails to pass teachers contract
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Newbie
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There are lots of misconceptions about the hours, workload of a teacher. Let's put them aside. To the previous poster, as a taxpayer, I am more than happy to pay taxes for good teachers. The problem is that
a) Without a better measure in place to determine the good and the bad teachers, all teachers get put into the same bucket. b) Teachers must agree to a way to get rid of the bad teachers. You are not going to get the backing of public opinion for raises, etc if we feel that you are protecting bad teachers c) You must agree to get rid of the pensions and replace them with 529k like plans. When you get something that the majority of tax payers do not, they are going to be less incline to agree to give you something more (i.e. raises). d) If I went into my boss and asked for a raise, his first question would be "Tell me what you've done to deserve a raise". There needs to be a measure of how well jersey city in general has performed (test scores, graduation rates, crime in school, attendance, etc, etc). Then if these measures have improved then you have a case. Perhaps I missed it but I haven't seen any improvements in these numbers. Instead we are just being told we must pay more more for teachers for our kids. Personally, I think being a union of public workers hurts you with the general image of the tax payers as most are not in unions and feel unions are out just to protect all members regardless of how hard they work or how good they are - rewarding mediocrity. My 2 cents...
Posted on: 2010/5/23 11:14
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Re: Jersey City Board of Ed fails to pass teachers contract
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Not too shy to talk
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"You have to consider how many hours their workday consist of. Teachers for instance have the summer off and go home at 3pm. Lot of perks at the taxpayer's expense."
Those of you who find criticism with teachers having the summer "off" obviously haven't spent much time with children. Any decent parent knows that in order to give 100% to your children you must take time to care for yourself. Being in a classroom with children is like being on stage - there is no downtime where you can daydream at your desk, play solitaire, read jclist postings, or chit-chat by the water cooler. Summer break offers teachers time to refuel, to freshen up their skills, and prepare (read books, new curriculum, etc.) for the coming school year. Children need this break as well to PLAY and spend time with family. K-LO and others who know and love teachers understand this.
Posted on: 2010/5/22 1:45
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Re: Jersey City Board of Ed fails to pass teachers contract
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Just can't stay away
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Sure, Gov.Christie, try to throw teachers and working class under the bus, try to sanctimoniously guilt them ("everyone need to do their part"), and then give yourself and your millionaire buddies (your Ed. Commissioner included) a hefty tax break. A hefty hypocrite, indeed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------- Christie Swiftly Vetoes Millionaires Tax, Property Tax Rebates. Star Ledger today It took about two minutes from the time Senate President Steve Sweeney certified the passage of the millionaires tax package for Gov. Chris Christie to veto the bills at his desk. "While I have little doubt that the sponsors and supporters of this bill sincerely believe that the state can tax its way out of this financial crisis, I believe that this bill does nothing more than repeat the failed, irresponsible and unsustainable fiscal policies of the past," wrote Christie in his veto statement. "Now is not the time for more of the same. Ultimately, another tax increase will punish the state?s struggling small businesses and set our economy further back from recovery." millionaires-tax-assembly-vote.JPGMatt Rainey/The Star-LedgerThe Assembly voted to pass the "millionaire's tax" bill 46-32, but Gov. Christie vetoed it soon after.After the state Senate passed the bill, which had already passed the Assembly, Sweeney walked the bills down the hallways of the Statehouse, from the state Senate chambers to the governor's office. Once inside, he handed the bills to Christie, who was waiting. "What took you so long ?" asked Christie spokesman Michael Drewniak. Christie sat at a wooden desk emblazoned with the seal of the state of New Jersey and swiftly signed vetoes. "We'll be back, governor," said Sweeney. "Alright, we'll see," said Christie. Democrats would need two-thirds majority in both houses of the Legislature to override the veto. "This is something we're not going away on," said Sweeney. "This isn't theater, this isn't a gimmick." By Matt Freidman/Statehouse Bureau and Lisa Fleisher/Statehouse Bureau
Posted on: 2010/5/21 21:57
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Re: Jersey City Board of Ed fails to pass teachers contract
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Home away from home
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Anyone who thinks that the teaching day is 8:20 - 3 knows nothing about teaching. Putting aside any after school activities, there's lesson planning, test preparation, paper grading -- for starters. Some teachers may actually leave the building by 3:30 but the work day doesn't end at the building doors.
Karen, daughter of teacher/principal grandaughter of teachers niece of teacher daughter in law of teachers sister of teacher aunt of teacher I avoided the "family business" because they all work too hard.
Posted on: 2010/5/21 19:30
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Re: Jersey City Board of Ed fails to pass teachers contract
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Home away from home
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Teachers teaching for 10 years deserve raises? How about the ones who cant teach or dont care about the kids or whose students are failing? Is there any difference to the teachers union between a good teacher and a failure? When was the last time a failing teacher was fired?
Automatic raises for all old teachers who live outside Jersey City, NJ and are incompetent. In the real world you must earn a raise by excellent performance, in the teachers world you can produce dummies and be rewarded. A mind is terrible thing to waste. Quote:
- 1
Posted on: 2010/5/21 17:55
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Re: Jersey City Board of Ed fails to pass teachers contract
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Home away from home
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Quote:
You have to consider how many hours their workday consist of. Teachers for instance have the summer off and go home at 3pm. Lot of perks at the taxpayer's expense.
Posted on: 2010/5/21 17:42
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Re: Jersey City Board of Ed fails to pass teachers contract
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Not too shy to talk
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Quote:
+1 Republicans Christie and Schundler love to make teachers the whipping boys. At the end of the day Christie, with his Bush/Rove agenda, seeks to limit the income of middle class policemen, firemen and teachers to enrich his wealthy Republican friends.
Posted on: 2010/5/21 17:36
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Home away from home
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couldn't agree more. however, does the Christie/Schundler Race to the Top application and related plan address this objective?
while I certainly would like to see the union's political influence reduced (like any other special interest group that throws large sums of money around), the target should be a holistic and strategic approach to improving education for all while making the process top to bottom more cost efficient. I fear individual political agendas will leave all of us dependent on successfully achieving the target worse off. Quote:
Posted on: 2010/5/21 17:11
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Re: Jersey City Board of Ed fails to pass teachers contract
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Not too shy to talk
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For clarification, the only teachers receiving the above stated increases are those who have been teaching in Jersey City for 10 plus years (many of whom possess master's degrees and have been making on average $9,000 less than other professionals with this level of education). Others receive only a nominal increase in pay, which amounts to a couple hundred dollars, and once they begin contributing 1.5% towards their healthcare benefits, they will end up with a pay cut. EACH AND EVERY TEACHER IN THE DISTRICT IS NOT RECEIVING AN INCREASE IN PAY - ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE DEDICATED THEMSELVES TO THE CHILDREN OF THIS CITY FOR TEN OR MORE YEARS. And if you think they don't deserve it, spend a week in the classroom with them before you pass judgment.
Posted on: 2010/5/21 16:53
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Home away from home
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A split Jersey City Board of Education vote approves four-year teachers pact
By Melissa Hayes/The Jersey Journal May 21, 2010, 12:15AM The Jersey City Board of Education approved a four-year teachers union contract last night by a 4-3-2 vote. Board president William DeRosa, vice president Sue Mack and members Peter Donnelly and Carol Lester voted in favor of the pact and panel members Patricia Sebron, Francis Thompson and Sean Connors voted against it. Trustees Angel Valentin and Sterling Waterman, who were backed by the union in the April election, both acknowleged support for the contract but abstained because of a state ethics ruling. The contract calls for a 4.34 percent pay increase for the current school year. There are salary hikes of 3.1 percent, 3.2 percent and 2.88 percent in subsequent years
Posted on: 2010/5/21 8:14
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Re: Jersey City Board of Ed fails to pass teachers contract
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Home away from home
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Note in particular the fourth paragraph.
Gov calls on school districts and education associations to freeze salaries PolitickerNJ.com By Max Pizarro | March 23rd, 2010 - 4:20pm Meeting pushback at the local level from mayors and supers fearful of service loss and layoffs, the governor's office issued a release this afternoon arguing for the implementation of a salary freeze for fiscal year 2011 in all collective bargaining agreements and requiring school district employees to make contributions to their health benefits that equal those required of state employees under the New Jersey State Health Benefits Program. ?While the budget challenges for school districts across the state are significant, they are not insurmountable," said the governor. "Achieving the needed savings and finding budgetary stability will require all parties to step up, pitch in, and work toward the common goal of protecting our educational priorities. I?m confident this middle road can be found if school districts and local education associations come to the table, find common ground, and act quickly to find the difficult, but needed savings in these budgets.? In a further effort to ensure equitable distribution of sacrifice, Christie said he had already directed the Executive County Superintendents to exercise their authority to "closely examine school district budgets that have been submitted in order to identify and disapprove excessive administrative spending and budgeted expenditures that are not essential to education." ?In these difficult economic times, we cannot afford to overlook savings that can be achieved through reductions in administrative and non-educational spending," Christie said. "The Executive County Superintendents, in cooperation with Commissioner Schundler, will be working with school districts to achieve savings in those areas first." Christie issued his missive as the Senate Budget and Appropriations Committee in Paramus considered the testimonials of numerous worried parties about the governor's budget impact, and suburban Republicans absorbed the frantic phone calls of school supers who have until April 3rd to submit their school budgets to the state. The governor's allies stressed that Christie's budget is not fixed. "This is the first meeting of the budget process," said state Sen. Joe Pennacchio (R-Montville). "There's a big difference between what gets introduced and what gets done. We still have a quarter of the year to get through this process."
Posted on: 2010/3/24 14:24
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Home away from home
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It's not 5% raises across the board. The teachers and their union are being made into very convenient bogeymen by the very people who will benefit from their demise.
Don't fall for the shiny object. The people who are looting the schools (be it through the front door or the back) for their own personal gain are the culprits here.
Posted on: 2010/3/24 2:18
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Re: Jersey City Board of Ed fails to pass teachers contract
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Just can't stay away
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Quote:
Agreed, and there is outrage for that too... There was a whole thread dedicated to it a year or two ago. But there are many interests who earn a lot in the system across the board, not just Epps. For example, 24 out of 32 school librarians in Jersey City make 90k-105k, and the rest average almost half that. All this info is public record.... Demanding 5% raises across the board, after the budget was slashed 5% means even MORE new teachers in the system will get burned. If you truly want to be fair to the underpaid, ask for raises for them, not for the 100k club. Is the union leadership really looking out for kids and new members or the wallets of the highly compensated?
Posted on: 2010/3/24 1:16
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Home away from home
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The overwhelming majority of the six-figure salaries and large sick/vacation day payouts go to administration. Why can't we swing the axe in that direction first? Where is the outrage that Epps makes more than $250k per year, has done nothing but drive the schools into the ground and now has the audacity to demand a contract extension? You could eliminate half the administration and it would have zero effect on classrooms.
You could give the teachers 10% raises without increasing the budget (not advocating for that, just saying...) if you gutted administration and ended the Epps/McCann patronage/kickback schemes.
Posted on: 2010/3/23 11:53
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Re: Jersey City Board of Ed fails to pass teachers contract
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Just can't stay away
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Quote:
The average salary is higher than "40-60k", so more than half are making more than your quoted range. In this time where revenues are plummeting due to unemployment, most sensible people will have an issue with: - the large number of 6 figure salary employees - 75,85,95,100k+ taxpayer funded pensions where 3 out of 4 retirees bail out of the state due to high taxes - the significant discrepancy in pay+benefits versus the private sector which fund them - guaranteed salary raises slapped on top of 25% property tax hikes ... and even the occasional 400k,500k and 750k sick-day cashout retirement packages.
Posted on: 2010/3/23 3:02
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I don't understand...you agree there is a labor market for teachers but that it isn't being used? Explain
Posted on: 2010/3/21 15:15
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Re: Jersey City Board of Ed fails to pass teachers contract
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Home away from home
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From Today's NY Times
Quote: Who Grades the Graders? A culture of accountability? What a novel idea!
Posted on: 2010/3/21 13:59
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We can't undo the poor fiscal decisions the government has previously made. Cuts are only made as a reaction to these mistakes. Fiscal responsibility isn't an attack, it's reality. Budgets gotta balance.
Posted on: 2010/3/21 1:25
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And Obama was born in Kenya, liberals are really undercover marxists etc etc Quote:
And of course fiscal responsibility means gutting the public education system, attacking public education workers who are living on 40-60k a year as uncaring pigs at the trough.
Posted on: 2010/3/21 1:04
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Home away from home
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Quote:
There's a labor market for teachers
Posted on: 2010/3/21 1:01
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This meltdown couldn't have happened without the Fed. The market can't overheat without government policies that force easy money into the market. As for teachers, no one wants to cut education budgets, but fiscal responsibility still matters.
Posted on: 2010/3/21 0:28
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Re: Jersey City Board of Ed fails to pass teachers contract
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Home away from home
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Quote:
How so?
Posted on: 2010/3/21 0:26
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Home away from home
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Quote:
How do you feel about all the bonuses being doled out on Wall Street despite the "great recession" and the fact that these same folks have played such a large role in the current economic crisis? So the way to improve the education system is to cut teachers pay, increase the number of students per classroom and to make it easier for folks like Epps and Mcann to fire and hire teachers (Hey wouldn't it be great if the pols are able to dish out teacher jobs to their friends and family like they do with the police and fire department!!) No thanks
Posted on: 2010/3/21 0:04
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Quote:
They are already paid what the market will bear.
Posted on: 2010/3/20 23:59
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Charter schools also operate on little more than half the per student operating budget that the non-charter public schools do. So for people whose hot button issue with public schools is wasted money (and thus, taxes), the charter school model should be attractive.
Posted on: 2010/3/20 18:28
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Re: Jersey City Board of Ed fails to pass teachers contract
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Home away from home
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ugh!
Charter schools are public schools! Charters schools can and have been unionized. the difference between PUBLIC Charter Schools and PUBLIC District Schools is precisely that, charter schools are run separate from the local school district. Charters schools are their own individual school district and run independent from the local school board Charter schools are held to the same standards, same curriculum, and same regulations as public district schools. Charter schools are freed from the bureaucracy of local school districts and can make their own decisions, quicker to respond to needs and freer from local politics. There is no right or wrong. However charter schools tend to be smaller and can be good testing grounds for different educational models. some charter schools have been very successful, some have dramatically failed. while there are a few specific exceptions, across the board, charter schools do not perform better than public district schools. charter schools are more tightly held accountable and can have their charter pulled and closed by the state. ......... so lets at least understand that public charter schools are public and at least in Jersey City a viable tool to complement our public district schools. Quote:
Posted on: 2010/3/20 18:03
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Re: Jersey City Board of Ed fails to pass teachers contract
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What also fail to realize is that it will be your tax dollars that will be paying for these fancy charter schools. Teachers do not have to be certified by the state of New Jersey. Fancy charters? paid for by tax payer money? In what galaxy? I cannot speak for all charters, but all LCCS teachers are state certified. Many have their masters degrees, and if not, are in school to get them.
Posted on: 2010/3/20 15:12
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